The Michael Sussman Trial: Special Counsel Durham's Probe Into The Origins of Russia Collusion Hoax.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

 

I'm just a man, typing on a message board, asking people to please read primary sources

Actually, in this case, you're a man, typing on a message board, accusing another of "...blatant...intentional...misreading of the facts" because he views things differently than you do.  You should take those issues up with Mueller or Barr, perhaps both.  

[ChiGoose]

8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Actually, in this case, you're a man, typing on a message board, accusing another of "...blatant...intentional...misreading of the facts" because he views things differently than you do.  You should take those issues up with Mueller or Barr, perhaps both.  

 

I would love to take up the issue with Barr for misleading the country with his summary. If you know how to get in touch with him, let me know.

 

In the meantime, I would suggest reading the actual report, or even the executive summaries of the actual report written by the guy who wrote the report. The further away you get from the actual text, the easier it is for pundits and political actors to mislead.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

19 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I would love to take up the issue with Barr for misleading the country with his summary. If you know how to get in touch with him, let me know.

 

In the meantime, I would suggest reading the actual report, or even the executive summaries of the actual report written by the guy who wrote the report. The further away you get from the actual text, the easier it is for pundits and political actors to mislead.

The investigation was undertaken by political actors, the entire report prepared by political actors, Goose.
 

If I want manufactured intrigue and dramatic retelling of events that conclude with a plot that implodes, I’ll rent a George Clooney movie. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Doc]

Whatever you may believe the Mueller report found, the Democrat-controlled Congress has taken zero action against Trump, despite still desperately wanting to get him (via J6 now).  Ask yourself why?

[ChiGoose]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The investigation was undertaken by political actors, the entire report prepared by political actors, Goose.
 

If I want manufactured intrigue and dramatic retelling of events that conclude with a plot that implodes from within, I’ll rent a George Clooney movie. 

 

O Brother Where Art Thou is an excellent movie. Though I suppose it's more Coen Brothers than it is a typical Clooney movie despite him playing the lead.

Just now, Doc said:

Whatever you may believe the Mueller report found, the Democrat-controlled Congress has taken zero action against Trump, despite still desperately wanting to get him (via J6 now).  Ask yourself why?

 

I've answered this several times: the Democratic Party and its leadership is profoundly incompetent. 

[BillsFanNC]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

 

 

I'm just a man, typing on a message board, asking people to please read primary sources

 

Always a good idea.  So then you've read the IG report on Crossfire Hurricane and FISA's that fueled it?

 

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/review-four-fisa-applications-and-other-aspects-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation

[716er]

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:

 

Always a good idea.  So then you've read the IG report on Crossfire Hurricane and FISA's that fueled it?

 

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/review-four-fisa-applications-and-other-aspects-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation

 

I have not. It's fairly long, but I'll read it if you read the Mueller Report. I'll even do a book report if you'd like.

[BillsFanNC]

8 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I have not. It's fairly long, but I'll read it if you read the Mueller Report. I'll even do a book report if you'd like.

 

Just the executive summary will suffice. I've done that for the Mueller report already.

[716er]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/05/john-durham-michael-sussman-verdict-not-guilty-russia-alfabank-trump-barr-fbi-clinton.html

 

The trial went badly enough for Durham that his fans in the right-wing media were already laying the groundwork for acquittal by blaming the judge for allowing a juror who believed (but wasn’t sure) she had contributed to Clinton’s campaign. That excuse might have held some water in the event of a hung jury. But the jury’s unanimous and extremely speedy verdict suggests a single possible former Clinton-donating juror is not the reason. The reason is that Durham didn’t have the goods.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

 

O Brother Where Art Thou is an excellent movie. Though I suppose it's more Coen Brothers than it is a typical Clooney movie despite him playing the lead.

I’ve never seen it.  Ever since I was a victim in the Fleecing of Solaris, I don’t trust. 

 

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I've answered this several times: the Democratic Party and its leadership is profoundly incompetent. 

This perspective is the most interesting of the left talking points.   It goes hand in hand with “Trump is so dumb they couldn’t get him. 
 

I think this goes to the brilliance of the Democrat plan—-they knew, likely after extensive study into what makes liberal voters tick, that tying Trump to Russia had little to do with actually proving he committed something approximating treasonous activity.  It had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the investigation…they relied on the cumulative arrogance of their core to walk away wondering how every single player was dumb or incompetent for not seeing what was so clear to them—solid evidence of nothing was obviously proof of everything. 
 

Credit to them, it was a solid plan.  

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, DRsGhost said:

 

Just the executive summary will suffice. I've done that for the Mueller report already.

Sounds good. I’ve got a bit on my plate at the moment but should be able to get back to you in a day or two. 

 

56 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’ve never seen it.  Ever since I was a victim in the Fleecing of Solaris, I don’t trust. 

 

This perspective is the most interesting of the left talking points.   It goes hand in hand with “Trump is so dumb they couldn’t get him. 
 

I think this goes to the brilliance of the Democrat plan—-they knew, likely after extensive study into what makes liberal voters tick, that tying Trump to Russia had little to do with actually proving he committed something approximating treasonous activity.  It had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the investigation…they relied on the cumulative arrogance of their core to walk away wondering how every single player was dumb or incompetent for not seeing what was so clear to them—solid evidence of nothing was obviously proof of everything. 
 

Credit to them, it was a solid plan.  

Every Democrat I know wishes the party was as clever as you claim they are. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This perspective is the most interesting of the left talking points.   It goes hand in hand with “Trump is so dumb they couldn’t get him. 
 

I think this goes to the brilliance of the Democrat plan—-they knew, likely after extensive study into what makes liberal voters tick, that tying Trump to Russia had little to do with actually proving he committed something approximating treasonous activity.  It had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the investigation…they relied on the cumulative arrogance of their core to walk away wondering how every single player was dumb or incompetent for not seeing what was so clear to them—solid evidence of nothing was obviously proof of everything. 
 

Credit to them, it was a solid plan.  

 

Tell a lie often enough...

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Every Democrat I know wishes the party was as clever as you claim they are. 

Exactly. 
 

[BillsFanNC]

 

[BillStime]

🎯

 

🎯

 

 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

At the request of @DRsGhost, I read the executive summary of the IG's report on Crossfire Hurricane. Here are my main takeaways:

 

1. The IG confirms that the FBI investigation into Russia was started when a friendly foreign government informed the FBI that Trump advisor George Papadopoulos told them that Russia had contacted him claiming to have damaging information on Clinton.

 

Mueller stated that this is how it all started and the IG confirmed it. The FBI was not made aware of the Steele Dossier until weeks after the investigation started. The IG confirmed that the opening of the investigation was properly predicated and in compliance with FBI policies and guidelines.

 

So can we finally stop with these claims that it was started by Clinton or the Steele Dossier?

 

2. The Carter Page FISA applications were incredibly flawed

 

While the IG found that the applications for FISA surveillance on Carter Page were not politically motivated, it also found that they omitted relevant information that should have been disclosed to the judge. FBI policy requires that the factual claims in a warrant are vetted by investigators but the Crossfire Hurricane team did not run them by Steele's handler before submitting the application. The handler told the IG that they would not have agreed to some of the statements on the applications.

 

Between the first application and the subsequent renewals, the IG found 17 separate issues with the applications.

 

3. Bruce Ohr's actions likely did not violate FBI policy, but those policies should be updated.

 

Ohr was not required to inform senior staff or his supervisors that he was communicating with Steele but he probably should have anyway. Ohr was also not required to disclose that his wife had previously done contracting work with FusionGPS, but it would have been better if he did disclose this. In both instances, the IG suggests the FBI update its policies to close these potential gaps.

 

4. Bottom Line: Why do people think this vindicates Trump?

 

After reading the report summary, I'm struggling to understand why Trump supporters find this to be some smoking gun that disproves the Mueller investigation. It actually confirms that the Steele Dossier was not the cause of the FBI's Russia investigation. The problems with Page's FISA applications are certainly serious but they do not invalidate what was discovered and most of the Mueller report deals with issues with the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia that do not involve Page. If you go so far as to throw out all of the Carter Page information, the Mueller report is still a damning document.

 

It also makes me confused why we have this long thread about the Sussman trial as if it was going to unravel a big conspiracy. The IG confirms that the Russia investigation was ongoing prior to Sussman meeting with the FBI. So even if Sussman had been found guilty and even if everything in the Steele Dossier had been thrown into the garbage immediately when it was handed over to the FBI, we would still have heaps of evidence of Russian contact with the Trump campaign from the already ongoing investigation.

 

From what I can tell, the IG report may lead to reforms with the FISA process, which would be great, but this report does almost nothing to invalidate the overall findings of the Russia investigation.

[Gene Frenkle]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

4. Bottom Line: Why do people think this vindicates Trump?

 

Reading comprehension was never their strong suite and who has time to read these days? What are you, some kind of commie egghead?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

20 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

Reading comprehension was never their strong suite and who has time to read these days? What are you, some kind of commie egghead?

It's this type of unmitigated arrogance that causes some people to hate the French, Frenks.   

[BillStime]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Tell a lie often enough...

LOCK HER UP?

 

WHO PAID FOR THE WALL? Speaking of that wall - Trump had four years to get it done and failed at that.

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Sussmann Juror Is Talking, and It's an Eye-Opener

 

by Nick Arama

 

As we reported earlier, Michael Sussmann was found not guilty of lying to the FBI, despite the evidence that he was working for the Clinton campaign and that he told FBI General Counsel James Baker that he was not working for any client. That raised questions as to how, given the evidence, you get a not guilty verdict in this case?

 

Now, part of the issue may have been judicial rulings that hindered Special Counsel John Durham’s case to some degree, as I noted. The other part may have been you likely started out with an unfavorable jury, to begin with, in D.C

 

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/05/31/sussmann-juror-is-talking-and-its-an-eye-opener-n572978

[ChiGoose]

29 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Sussmann Juror Is Talking, and It's an Eye-Opener

 

by Nick Arama

 

As we reported earlier, Michael Sussmann was found not guilty of lying to the FBI, despite the evidence that he was working for the Clinton campaign and that he told FBI General Counsel James Baker that he was not working for any client. That raised questions as to how, given the evidence, you get a not guilty verdict in this case?

 

Now, part of the issue may have been judicial rulings that hindered Special Counsel John Durham’s case to some degree, as I noted. The other part may have been you likely started out with an unfavorable jury, to begin with, in D.C

 

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/05/31/sussmann-juror-is-talking-and-its-an-eye-opener-n572978

It is truly amazing that Hillary Clinton is so powerful that she controls all of Washington DC, the Democratic Party, the FBI, the Deep State, and other governments agencies to be named later. And she used that power to her advantage by coming up with a master plan to lose an election to a game show host who somehow managed to bankrupt multiple casinos. 

[BillStime]

56 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Sussmann Juror Is Talking, and It's an Eye-Opener

 

by Nick Arama

 

As we reported earlier, Michael Sussmann was found not guilty of lying to the FBI, despite the evidence that he was working for the Clinton campaign and that he told FBI General Counsel James Baker that he was not working for any client. That raised questions as to how, given the evidence, you get a not guilty verdict in this case?

 

Now, part of the issue may have been judicial rulings that hindered Special Counsel John Durham’s case to some degree, as I noted. The other part may have been you likely started out with an unfavorable jury, to begin with, in D.C

 

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/05/31/sussmann-juror-is-talking-and-its-an-eye-opener-n572978

REDSTATE - music to your ears

 

 

 

[B-Man]

41 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

It is truly amazing that Hillary Clinton is so powerful that she controls all of Washington DC, the Democratic Party, the FBI, the Deep State, and other governments agencies to be named later. And she used that power to her advantage by coming up with a master plan to lose an election to a game show host who somehow managed to bankrupt multiple casinos. 

 

 

Good sarcasm is an art.

 

You, unfortunately, are no artist.

 

 

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Good sarcasm is an art.

 

You, unfortunately, are no artist.

 

 

 

I don't know that was pretty good.  Summed up the right's insanity and borderline obsession with Clinton pretty well.  I bet the next Hillary bombshell will have it's own pointless discussion as well.

[716er]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

It is truly amazing that Hillary Clinton is so powerful that she controls all of Washington DC, the Democratic Party, the FBI, the Deep State, and other governments agencies to be named later. And she used that power to her advantage by coming up with a master plan to lose an election to a game show host who somehow managed to bankrupt multiple casinos. 

A+

[BillStime]

And there you have it folks

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

15 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Good sarcasm is an art.

 

You, unfortunately, are no artist.

 

 

 

The rhythm of this board is pretty funny, once you get past the allegations that people are in cults, support fascism and the like. 
 

At any given point in time, someone is accusing someone else  of supporting someone who is out purely for political gain, or someone is supporting someone pursuing action for the greater good, all while someone is always disappointed that someone failed to prosecute a case politically or civilly while someone else is mocking them for the loss forgetting it was just a short time ago their someone had a similar failure. 
 

Meanwhile, the current leadership of both parties just missed the cutoff for military service in the First World War.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The rhythm of this board is pretty funny, once you get past the allegations that people are in cults, support fascism and the like. 
 

At any given point in time, someone is accusing someone else  of supporting someone who is out purely for political gain, or someone is supporting someone pursuing action for the greater good, all while someone is always disappointed that someone failed to prosecute a case politically or civilly while someone else is mocking them for the loss forgetting it was just a short time ago their someone had a similar failure. 
 

Meanwhile, the current leadership of both parties just missed the cutoff for military service in the First World War.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat. 

What I find hilarious is that Billsy continues calling the 80% of the country that believes we’re headed in the wrong direction a ‘cult’. 😂😂

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

What I find hilarious is that Billsy continues calling the 80% of the country that believes we’re headed in the wrong direction a ‘cult’. 😂😂

Deek, like most of us here, I’ve interacted with him from time to time.  Sometimes for fun, sometimes to get some feedback, rarely learning anything new and walking away thinking “It must suck be that negative that often”.  
 

Sadly there isn’t much beyond cult conspiracy chatter coming from him, and I can handle that the first hundred times.  I don’t really care about the insults either.  What I’ve been seeing of late is a ratcheting up of the animosity, and while I’m sure he’s generally harmless, it’s like watching a slow moving train wreck.  
 

 

 
 

 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What I find hilarious is that Billsy continues calling the 80% of the country that believes we’re headed in the wrong direction a ‘cult’. 😂😂

 

It's what they do.  You disagree with them, you're an -ist of some sort and/or another.

[Tenhigh]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:19 PM, L Ron Burgundy said:

I don't know that was pretty good.  Summed up the right's insanity and borderline obsession with Clinton pretty well.  I bet the next Hillary bombshell will have it's own pointless discussion as well.

You are right, she is a boogeyman to many on the right, and is far less evil than she is given credit for.

 

Fortunately, our friends on the left don't have irrational responses to anyone on the right. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Tenhigh

[Tenhigh]

@BillStime, I am glad that you are able to laugh at yourself. 

[ALF]

Trump's attorney dream team can't lose , Durham, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, Lin Wood

[ChiGoose]

8 minutes ago, ALF said:

Trump's attorney dream team can't lose , Durham, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, Lin Wood

 

That's the kind of high powered legal team that can come in to defend you for a traffic ticket and accidentally get you the death penalty.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Trump's attorney dream team can't lose , Durham, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, Lin Wood

You are aware that Durham doesn't work for Trump......right?

[ALF]

28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You are aware that Durham doesn't work for Trump......right?

 

Durham was not appointed by Trump ?

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, ALF said:

 

Durham was not appointed by Trump ?

Oh come on! That’s your criteria? Give me a break. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

You are right, she is a boogeyman to many on the right, and is far less evil than she is given credit for.

 

Fortunately, our friends on the left don't have irrational responses to anyone on the right. 

Did you know the National Institute of Health has analyzed the data and discovered the suicide rate of people with dirt on the Clinton's is 60 times higher than the national average?