Speculative article on friction between McDermott and Staff?

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It could very well have been...but after Bass was initially told to kick a TB and not relayed to him.

It will eventually leak out what happened.  A "lack of execution that starts with me" is all you're going to get from McDermott at this point though.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It will eventually leak out what happened.  A "lack of execution that starts with me" is all you're going to get from McDermott at this point though.

 

I'm sticking why my story on the KO.  As for the defensive calls, I'm assuming a player or players weren't following their assignments. 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I'm sticking why my story on the KO.  As for the defensive calls, I'm assuming a player or players weren't following their assignments. 

I can deal with Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce getting their team into field goal range in two plays in 11 seconds with three time outs.  Our defense couldn't cover a stationary wall with paint at that point.  What's unacceptable to me is a communication error by our coaching staff on the kickoff.  It's inexcusable and Heath Farwell was the fall guy.

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I can deal with Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce getting their team into field goal range in two plays in 11 seconds with three time outs.  Our defense couldn't cover a stationary wall with paint at that point.  What's unacceptable to me is a communication error by our coaching staff on the kickoff.  It's inexcusable and Heath Farwell was the fall guy.

 

If, as it seems, Farwell didn't relay that it was instead supposed to be a squib or goal line KO to Bass, he's not a scapegoat: he's culpable.  But Farwell has never been accused of it by McD and the story is he resigned so I don't even think you can call him a scapegoat.  He's more like an escape goat...to Jax.

[finn]

5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

How do you go about conjuring this much drama up in your head?

Who said anything about drama? If the players resent McDermott, they might not express it beyond a raised eyebrow or a significant silence. That doesn't mean it's not damage that McDermott should attend to. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

LMAO…you said to keep in mind that Dunne is trying to sell a product and then said that he isn’t being held to the journalistic standard of two independent sources. Dunne has multiple independent sources.

Have you read the article?

 

You’re omitting important qualifiers …. Independent sources with direct knowledge of the events….

I said what I said.  It doesn’t equate to saying either 1) Donne is lying or 2) Dunne is making up sources, but it doesn’t equate to sources with direct personal knowledge, either.  

 

We now return you to your regular ass laughing off sessions, Go For It.  

 

 

[Big Blitz]

My goodness....McD can absolutely be a man of extremely high integrity.  Which I think he is and why it has really hurt me personally watching this play out.  WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT TO BED RIGHT AFTER THE GAME.  Then we're not even discussing this still.

 

The story has shifted based on his comments immediately after (NOT just bc of this article by Dunne), that implicated the players didn't execute, to now this last week being "it was execution in the sense that from the coaches on down it starts with me we had some issues with communication."  Or whatever it was he said. 

 

There was a clear shift from the players didn't execute to someone changed a call or someone missed the call and it wasn't Bass.  Or McD made the call.  Still bad because the replay said the KO team definitely thought squibb.  

 

That was not what was said after the game - now we have an issue that matters because he has a locker room (all of whom know what happened) that he has to motivate, lead, and to still trust him.  To a lesser extent fans he needs to answer to.  And because of the circumstances I think he does.  

 

All we have now is more confusion and some more anger.  This is what happens when you just don't own it or tell the truth as far as you can because no we the fans dont need to know everything.  But none of this makes sense and it's insulting to our intelligence.  Most important thing is the players are good with how we coached the last 13 seconds and our head coaches response afterward.  Everything is fine.  

 

Only thing acceptable is he's covering for Farwell or maybe Bass.  Maybe if he feels he needs to answer for the kickoff then logically he'll have to answer for the 2 defensive plays and maybe that's directly on Frazier and McD wants to avoid that altogether.  

Edited March 7, 2022 by Big Blitz

[GunnerBill]

Just to remind people what McDermott said after the game which was:

 

"we have got to execute better and that starts with me and goes all the way down the line."

 

That is very similar to what he said at the Combine. 

 

He has a challenge in the spring and summer to move the team on and recalibrate with everyone on board for 2022 because they lost a huge game in a gut wrenching way and that failure is on him. 

 

But the argument that somehow he has an additional challenge because he hasn't taken ownership of it is nonsensical to me. He has taken ownership every time he has been asked. What this comes down to is fans, media whoever else believing they have a right to a full explanation as to exactly what went wrong so that someone can be hung out to dry for some public humiliation because that is the warped concept our society has of accountability. 

 

And they don't. 

[Buddy Hix]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You’re omitting important qualifiers …. Independent sources with direct knowledge of the events….

I said what I said.  It doesn’t equate to saying either 1) Donne is lying or 2) Dunne is making up sources, but it doesn’t equate to sources with direct personal knowledge, either.  

 

We now return you to your regular ass laughing off sessions, Go For It.  

 

 

Have you read the article? I noticed you didn’t answer that question.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Buddy Hix

[4BillsintheBurgh]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

If, as it seems, Farwell didn't relay that it was instead supposed to be a squib or goal line KO to Bass, he's not a scapegoat: he's culpable.  But Farwell has never been accused of it by McD and the story is he resigned so I don't even think you can call him a scapegoat.  He's more like an escape goat...to Jax.

One other possibility for the execution is that Bass may have reacted to something on the field. I thought I saw Hill out there in the clip that cover1 had where some of our guys were looking at the sideline after the ball went out of the endzone. It's a possibility bass had been instructed before the game to knock the ball out of the endzone if he saw any shenanigans. Bass could have decided to override the instructions he had gotten.

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

One other possibility for the execution is that Bass may have reacted to something on the field. I thought I saw Hill out there in the clip that cover1 had where some of our guys were looking at the sideline after the ball went out of the endzone. It's a possibility bass had been instructed before the game to knock the ball out of the endzone if he saw any shenanigans. Bass could have decided to override the instructions he had gotten.

 

While possible, that's highly unlikely.  He would have been told right before the play, not before the game.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

35 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

While possible, that's highly unlikely.  He would have been told right before the play, not before the game.

I understand. It's highly unlikely to me that Bass' position coach didn't make him aware of the plan for that kick.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I understand. It's highly unlikely to me that Bass' position coach didn't make him aware of the plan for that kick.

 

Which is less unlikely?  I think most would agree it's Bass overriding instructions and going with something he was told before the game.  And Farwell is gone.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Doc

[billsfan1959]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

My goodness....McD can absolutely be a man of extremely high integrity.  Which I think he is and why it has really hurt me personally watching this play out.  WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT TO BED RIGHT AFTER THE GAME.  Then we're not even discussing this still.

 

He didn't owe any more of a public expalanation than he gave. If you are still discussing it, it is because of your own issues with it.

 

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

There was a clear shift from the players didn't execute to someone changed a call or someone missed the call and it wasn't Bass. 

 

No, there was no clear shift. He said essentially the same thing.

 

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Now we have an issue that matters because he has a locker room (all of whom know what happened) that he has to motivate, lead, and to still trust him. 

 

You have an issue. You are assuming the players view things the same as you and, therefore, also have the same issue. There is no proof of that and my guess is the players don't have an issue with McDermott.

 

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

To a lesser extent fans he needs to answer to.  And because of the circumstances I think he does.  

 

He doesn't owe you any more of an explanation than he gave. 

 

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

All we have now is more confusion and some more anger. 

 

If you are confused and angry, that's on you, not McDermott.

 

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

This is what happens when you just don't own it or tell the truth as far as you can

 

Again, if you think McDermott lied or didn't own / take responsibility for his own role in what transpired at the end of the game, then it is because that is what you want to believe - and it completely ignores a complete body of work in his coaching career that says otherwise.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by billsfan1959

[FilthyBeast]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Just to remind people what McDermott said after the game which was:

 

"we have got to execute better and that starts with me and goes all the way down the line."

 

That is very similar to what he said at the Combine. 

 

He has a challenge in the spring and summer to move the team on and recalibrate with everyone on board for 2022 because they lost a huge game in a gut wrenching way and that failure is on him. 

 

But the argument that somehow he has an additional challenge because he hasn't taken ownership of it is nonsensical to me. He has taken ownership every time he has been asked. What this comes down to is fans, media whoever else believing they have a right to a full explanation as to exactly what went wrong so that someone can be hung out to dry for some public humiliation because that is the warped concept our society has of accountability. 

 

And they don't. 

I think this is the key point lost in the conversation.

 

It's easy for McD and the rest of the Bills organization to give these canned generic responses to the fanbase in hopes of appeasing them and that they'll simply move on at some point as we get closer to the 2022 campaign.

 

But based on Dunne's article, the players certainly have not moved on and I still think there's very murky waters ahead especially if this team gets off to a slow start this year and McDermott's message in the lockerroom starts to get tuned out by the veterans on this team.

 

Who really knows what's happening behind the scenes but it's a true test of what type of coach McDermott really is to move on from the Chiefs game and have this team in position to not only win a 3rd division title, but finally compete for the grand prize which many will still have doubts he's capable of doing (myself included).

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I think this is the key point lost in the conversation.

 

It's easy for McD and the rest of the Bills organization to give these canned generic responses to the fanbase in hopes of appeasing them and that they'll simply move on at some point as we get closer to the 2022 campaign.

 

But based on Dunne's article, the players certainly have not moved on and I still think there's very murky waters ahead especially if this team gets off to a slow start this year and McDermott's message in the lockerroom starts to get tuned out by the veterans on this team.

 

Who really knows what's happening behind the scenes but it's a true test of what type of coach McDermott really is to move on from the Chiefs game and have this team in position to not only win a 3rd division title, but finally compete for the grand prize which many will still have doubts he's capable of doing (myself included).

 

He doesn't need to appease the fanbase and if that is their aim they are doing the wrong thing. It is undoubtedly a challenge to get the team back together. I am more confident than you that he will but then I just think you are wrong on McDermott for the most part. However, I do not deny that a slow start coupled with the loss of some veteran voices in the locker room over this offseason (Beasley, Hughes, Addison, possibly Star and Feliciano) could land the Bills in murky waters next season. That said I see no way beyond a serious Allen injury that they don't win the division again because I just don't have much faith in the competitors. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Which is less unlikely?  I think most would agree it's Bass overriding instructions and going with something he was told before the game.  And Farwell is gone.

I guess I'm not most. I can't quantify it for you, but to me it's less likely that Farwell didn't make some attempt to tell Bass to squibb/pooch it. Especially with the 2 point conversion going on and the extra time that was there. Farwell being gone was probably not just one screwup, although this failure was probably the topper.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I guess I'm not most. I can't quantify it for you, but to me it's less likely that Farwell didn't make some attempt to tell Bass to squibb/pooch it. Especially with the 2 point conversion going on and the extra time that was there. Farwell being gone was probably not just one screwup, although this failure was probably the topper.

 

The 2 pt conversion was on the previous TD. We kicked for 1 on the last TD with 13 sec left. I know this because I was under the same impression for a while until I went back and looked at the order of everything.

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He doesn't need to appease the fanbase and if that is their aim they are doing the wrong thing. It is undoubtedly a challenge to get the team back together. I am more confident than you that he will but then I just think you are wrong on McDermott for the most part. However, I do not deny that a slow start coupled with the loss of some veteran voices in the locker room over this offseason (Beasley, Hughes, Addison, possibly Star and Feliciano) could land the Bills in murky waters next season. That said I see no way beyond a serious Allen injury that they don't win the division again because I just don't have much faith in the competitors. 

 

It's truly a year to year league and why so many fans/media/etc felt the Bills pissed away what was their best chance to get to/win a SB since the 90's and you just don't know when the stars will align again despite having a talent like JA17 at the helm.

 

And while I agree the Bills should be the prohibitive favorites to at least win the division again in 2022 and get to the playoffs again there's still tons of offseason left and if the Dolphins were to make a big move at QB at the very least they are going to have the same odds as the Bills in terms of winning the division given the core of talent already in place and how close they have been to breaking through the last few years.

 

Still think that if Mac Jones takes a big step this year the Pats are going to be there too. And the Jets have tons of money and cap space to make a move especially if the QB situation improves.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I guess I'm not most. I can't quantify it for you, but to me it's less likely that Farwell didn't make some attempt to tell Bass to squibb/pooch it. Especially with the 2 point conversion going on and the extra time that was there. Farwell being gone was probably not just one screwup, although this failure was probably the topper.

 

It's not necessarily that he didn't make an attempt.  He obviously told the rest of the ST's unit that it changed to a squib or deep KO.  Bass just wasn't there and he may not have realized it, but it's still his responsibility.  I just don't buy that Bass took it upon himself to make the call to go for a TB when they had him doing all types of KOs all year and this was the most important one of the season.