Bills Receivers Catch Percentages

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

First, McKenzie has had one good game.

 

He also killed the Dolphins last year. They have an excellent secondary and were playing a must-win game. He was still unstoppable.

 

I do want to be clear, I'm not saying McKenzie is secretly a great WR. He just offers more than the other WRs besides Diggs. Straight line horizontal speed is extremely valuable in an offense that features a lot of crossing routes and a QB with lethal arm strength and accuracy on those routes. I value separation ability above all else and McKenzie appears to have greater separation skills than his teammates besides Diggs.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Just highlights how much of a need WR is on this team.  Allen masks a lot of deficiencies on offense.

I think Chris Sims is full of it lol 

 

There's not seven teams in the NFL with a deeper wide receiver roster.. we're perfectly fine there

 

We're literally coming off of two all pros last year lol 

 

Whoever Josh is throwing the ball to will look fine if he has an offensive line to protect it

 

 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think Chris Sims is full of it lol 

 

There's not seven teams in the NFL with a deeper wide receiver roster.. we're perfectly fine there

 

We're literally coming off of two all pros last year lol 

 

Whoever Josh is throwing the ball to will look fine if he has an offensive line to protect it

 

 

 

 

We have one fast guy (until Stephenson starts running routes) and zero tall guys.  It’s all Josh and scheme right now.  If they added speed and size the offense would be ridonkulous.  

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

We have one fast guy (until Stephenson starts running routes) and zero tall guys.  It’s all Josh and scheme right now.  If they added speed and size the offense would be ridonkulous.  

I'm not doubting our offense is built a certain way 

 

But we are literally stacked with route runners and guys who can create separation... 

 

Tom Brady had Smurfs his whole career but he could throw to open guys.. Josh has a laser beam and a quick release that could find anybody with two feet of separation

 

And we have a whole bunch of wide receivers that specialize in getting that separation

 

Gabe Davis is our size speed Target.. and so Is knox 

 

Those are big targets that can catch the ball down field.. and can out muscle the opposing back

 

Gabe is basically 6'3 and runs a 4.5.. plays faster... and can track a ball down field.. he hasn't shown you anything he can do yet because he's waiting his time 

 

Gabe's going to go for a thousand next year

Edited December 30, 2021 by Buffalo716

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There's not seven teams in the NFL with a deeper wide receiver roster.. we're perfectly fine there

 

No way. The truly elite offenses in this league have more than one top tier guy on offense. Packers have Adams and Jones, Chiefs have Hill and Kelce, 49ers have Kittle and Deebo, Chargers have 3 guys, the Bucs have an embarrassment of riches, same for the Cowboys... We are the only team doing it with one top tier guy that defenses are afraid of. Allen does more with less, moreso than any QB in the league.

 

I guess I'm the last poster on the forum to feel this way, but I'm not 100% sure on Davis yet as a true threat yet. A lot of his production is because of scheme and Allen's abilities, not his own talent level. When defenses game plan to stop him it's in the vein of "watch out for this guy leaking into space" versus "watch out for this guy's skil set." Ideally he would be our #3 outside WR behind two legit studs. His separation skills are average at best and he isn't enough of an alpha to be dominant down the field.

 

McKenzie is NOT a top tier WR... but at least he can separate and make plays with the ball in his hand.

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No way. The truly elite offenses in this league have more than one top tier guy on offense. Packers have Adams and Jones, Chiefs have Hill and Kelce, 49ers have Kittle and Deebo, Chargers have 3 guys, the Bucs have an embarrassment of riches, same for the Cowboys... We are the only team doing it with one top tier guy that defenses are afraid of. Allen does more with less, moreso than any QB in the league.

 

I guess I'm the last poster on the forum to feel this way, but I'm not 100% sure on Davis yet as a true threat yet. A lot of his production is because of scheme and Allen's abilities, not his own talent level. When defenses game plan to stop him it's in the vein of "watch out for this guy leaking into space" versus "watch out for this guy's skil set." Ideally he would be our #3 outside WR behind two legit studs. His separation skills are average at best and he isn't enough of an alpha to be dominant down the field.

 

McKenzie is NOT a top tier WR... but at least he can separate and make plays with the ball in his hand.

Did you even read what I said? I said there's not seven teams in the NFL with a deeper wide receiver core

 

I just went through every single one and there's not

 

We had two all pros at wide receiver last year.. that's far from our problem 

 

70% of the league would give up their wide receiver core for us

 

And at this point we have Allen All pro.. Diggs , all pro... Beasley is coming off an all pro year .. not pro bowl All pro

 

Dawson Knox is a legitimate pro bowl talent.. I bet he makes an all pro team in his career

 

We have an explosive guy in McKenzie 

 

And Sanders would still be able to play for most of the league.. and he's the afterthought on our offense

 

Josh , diggs , Cole , Knox , even adding McKenzie and Davis is a core that a lot of the league would love to start their team with.. now if we add a true feature back like a Jonathan Taylor look out

 

We're missing a stud line and a feature back.. we have more wide receiver talent than most the league .. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Buffalo716

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Did you even read what I said? I said there's not seven teams in the NFL with a deeper wide receiver core

 

You said that we're fine there. I just don't agree with that. Depth is important but high end talent is more valuable. And it's magnified because we don't have a high end RB or TE (although Knox has gotten himself closer to that level). The winner of the Super Bowl this year will have a minimum of two high end offensive skill players, I would bet on that now. The only realistic team that does not meet that standard is the Bills, only because of how good Josh Allen is. Look at any team that you think has a realistic shot to win the Super Bowl and tell me you disagree.

 

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Beasley is coming off an all pro year .. not pro bowl All pro

 

He was an all-pro because one voter - Peter King - decided that a slot receiver needed to be included. That doesn't mean anything. Anyways that was last year, this year Beasley has clearly lost a step and isn't getting any younger.

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You said that we're fine there. I just don't agree with that. Depth is important but high end talent is more valuable. And it's magnified because we don't have a high end RB or TE (although Knox has gotten himself closer to that level). The winner of the Super Bowl this year will have a minimum of two high end offensive skill players, I would bet on that now. The only realistic team that does not meet that standard is the Bills, only because of how good Josh Allen is. Look at any team that you think has a realistic shot to win the Super Bowl and tell me you disagree.

 

 

He was an all-pro because one voter - Peter King - decided that a slot receiver needed to be included. That doesn't mean anything. Anyways that was last year, this year Beasley has clearly lost a step and isn't getting any younger.

He still has a great connection with Josh and he's very dependable

 

Not talking 5 years down the line we're talking right now 

 

And even one vote is more than 99% of the league.. he is one of the best pure slots in the league

 

 you could always improve.. every single day.. it's a mantra... I agree with you.. if you're not getting better you're getting worse

 

but from where the wide receiver core was three four years ago to where it is now it's a miracle.. it's time to do that with the offensive line

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

He also killed the Dolphins last year. They have an excellent secondary and were playing a must-win game. He was still unstoppable.

 

I do want to be clear, I'm not saying McKenzie is secretly a great WR. He just offers more than the other WRs besides Diggs. Straight line horizontal speed is extremely valuable in an offense that features a lot of crossing routes and a QB with lethal arm strength and accuracy on those routes. I value separation ability above all else and McKenzie appears to have greater separation skills than his teammates besides Diggs.

Fair enough.  I don't see it. I like Davis's size and Beasley's tenacity.  

[Big Turk]

McKenzie sample size is very limited.

[BuffaloBill]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

The video is mostly about Josh Allen's dominance on Sunday. Simms briefly talks about McKenzie after showing his TD.

 

The pass to Sanders where the Bills picked up a 1D and 12 yards is just insane. This is especially the case when you hear how the defense was set up perfectly to stop what the Bills were looking to do.  Say what you want about Bellicheat but the guy really does know football. 

[MJS]

20 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't think this stat is meant to measure how good a receiver is.

I think it's meant to measure how effective a connection is.   Allen to McKenzie results in completions 78.3% of the time.  That's a connection that works.

 

It's a small sample size but so far Allen to Kumerow isn't working.   Allen to Sanders hasn't been great either.  

It's a pretty small sample size for McKenzie. Only 23 targets on the year, and up until last game a lot of those were those tap passes that are basically runs.

 

Not trying to take anything away from him. He did great and I want to see him more. But it stands to reason that if he gets more involved and runs more traditional routes, that number might come down a bit.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean he's good but he's basically a two-trick pony

 

Look at his route chart over the last 2 years.. he basically runs two routes.. his athleticism make him very hard to Defend on those 2 routes  

 

But he's limited

 

Beasley and Gabe both bring alot more dimensions..  

 

If Mackenzie could ever become a true vertical threat then maybe he will become a true every down threat.. but he's way better in the 15 20 yard range than tracking balls 50 yards downfield 

 

He's just another guy that's a perfect scheme fit for what we like to do

 

What are the two routes McKenzie runs?

 

I can't look at his route charts because there are very few games in which he's gotten enough snaps/targets for NexGen to chart him - this past Sunday and Week 17 last year are it.

 

I do agree that he hasn't been good tracking balls downfield (that was Beane's post-season comment "he needs to get better at tracking the ball")

I would say he improved at that with his work to become a KR/PR

 

It would be a point that what he ran yesterday were reverses/sweeps, flats, and crossers of various depths.

But week 17 last year was a bit more extensive route vocabulary.

 

I will add that last season was the first time I saw McKenzie run recognizable routes with sharp cuts in them, and that I think his downfall as a deep threat has been getting jammed.

 

Yesterday I saw him get held and bumped and he flat out didn't care.  He still ran the route and caught the ball.  He also made some pretty good adjustments - his TD catch was thrown behind him and he adjusted on it nicely, another ball that he climbed the ladder for over Duggar.  He looked like he's taken a step.

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

You also have to take into account the difference between someone who has only had 23 passes thrown at them and someone who has 50 plus passes thrown their way.   It is great, hopefully he can keep it up.

 

 

Exactly.  The 2 groups are not comparable in a meaningful way.

[Alphadawg7]

22 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

Catch percentage for all Bills WRs.  

Isiah McKenzie leads the Bills WRs with a catch percentage of 78.3% for 2021 season.  Next is Cole Beasley with a 75.2% catch rate.  League wide he would be tied for 3rd place Kendrick Bourne.   Only Rondale Moore and Hunter Renfrow have better catch percentages.  

Hopefully he will see more playing time.  

 

Nothing against McKenzie, I like him, but you are talking about a pretty small sample size here that basically is tied to his last game.  Prior to this Sunday, he had 7 receptions on 11 targets for a 63% catch percentage.  Also too small to make any statements about that really.  

 

Like I said, I do like McKenzie, dont get me wrong, I am just saying he has been here a while and hasn't managed to make a consistent impact, never had a strong catch rate, and has had some fumble issues in the past.  

 

So I still think the offense would benefit more by getting more touches to Diggs, Davis, Cole, Knox, and Singletary (rushing and receiving) over reducing some of their roles to get McKenzie more snaps.  Although I do think Sanders role should be reduced heavily in favor of Davis and Cole.

 

He certainly has value to the team, and I would like to see him get some opportunities in the right situations, just think the other guys are ones who should command the touches more.  

Edited December 30, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What are the two routes McKenzie runs?

 

I can't look at his route charts because there are very few games in which he's gotten enough snaps/targets for NexGen to chart him - this past Sunday and Week 17 last year are it.

 

I do agree that he hasn't been good tracking balls downfield (that was Beane's post-season comment "he needs to get better at tracking the ball")

I would say he improved at that with his work to become a KR/PR

 

It would be a point that what he ran yesterday were reverses/sweeps, flats, and crossers of various depths.

But week 17 last year was a bit more extensive route vocabulary.

 

I will add that last season was the first time I saw McKenzie run recognizable routes with sharp cuts in them, and that I think his downfall as a deep threat has been getting jammed.

 

Yesterday I saw him get held and bumped and he flat out didn't care.  He still ran the route and caught the ball.  He also made some pretty good adjustments - his TD catch was thrown behind him and he adjusted on it nicely, another ball that he climbed the ladder for over Duggar.  He looked like he's taken a step.

 

 

 

I would say the majority of the time he's either running crossing routes  with a flat route off it 

 

And occasionally a out /corner

 

You could basically figure out what he's doing based on where he is in formation .. 

 

I like McKenzie, he is a mismatch vs certain teams .. what he does he does well

 

 

[Nextmanup]

That number is misleading because it is a product of 18 receptions on 23 targets--not much activity.

 

With greater throws, the catch percentage will come down.

 

Not that McKenzie hasn't been a breath of fresh air.