I am not a ESPN fan but Steven A had it right

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

His point was about Allen only scoring 7 points and the fact the O turned it over 3 times. Making it easy for the Colts to just keep running the ball.

 

for example when he led them down make it 14-7 the Colts temporarily lost their minds and stopped running the ball. 

Did you watch the game?  I have no idea what you mean by "Allen only scored 7 points making it easy for the Colts to keep running the ball".  Do you think the Colts were going to abandon the run if the game was closer? The Bills only had the ball TWICE from the opening kickoff to about the two minute warning. 

 

On their first possession, after the Colts scored a TD, the Bills had a nice drive going until back to back penalties on the O-line set them back 15 yards. Allen in an attempt to covert a 3rd & 18 threw a risky ball that was picked giving the Colts possession at their own 40.

 

After the Colts scored to go up 14 - 0 Allen led the Bills on a nice TD drive to cut the lead to 14 - 7. The Colts then went on a nearly 9 minute drive that resulted in a FG and a 17 - 7 lead.  McKenzie fumbled the ensuing KO and the Colts scored in one play to go up 24 - 7. Allen then led the Bills to a long FG attempt that hit the upright.

 

You want to now what really turned this game into a blowout? After the Bills cut the Colts lead to 14 - 7 the defense allowed a nearly NINE MINUTE drive to a FG.  And then on the KO McKenzie had one of the worst fumbles I've ever seen in the NFL.  One play later the Colts scored the TD to go up 24 -7.  How the hell did Allen's play up to that point impact the game.  Even his INT on the first drive only gave the Colts the ball at their 40. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Beerball said:

Just like the OP who feels the need to start his title with "I am nod a espn fan" you decide to start with "I hate to disagree."

 

Really, do you really hate it?

No.  But the ignorance of Steven A is off the carts. Sue I get he's paid to stir the pot on a national scene but what kind of Bills fan actually believes what he said.

 

Again and I'll keep screaming it from the top of a mountain - THE BILLS ONLY HAD THE BALL TWICE FROM THE OPENING KO TO THE TWO MINUTE WARNING. TWICE! And both those possessions resulted in drives into Colt territory one giving the Bills a TD.  THAT was the reason we lost.  Not that Allen didn't earn his 258 million dollars as Steven A claims.

 

Whew, I feel better now.

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yeah I watched him force a deep in to double covered Davis instead of hitting wide open sanders or allowing Diggs to come free across the middle opting for an INT. 
 

I watched him throw off target to knox, Beasley, Gabe, Moss on easy gimme passes. 
 

I watched another in accurate forced pass into double coverage for another INT. 

 

I watched 5 drives with zero points, two ints that led to 14 opposing points.
 

I’ve been told for 20 years the QB was the thing we need. Now with the second most expensive one, not a rookie anymore the Kid gloves are off. Time for the man to start delivering.
 

Expecting him to win games isn’t asking home to be an overachiever.  He’s yet to beat a good defense or win a tight game for the team this season. 
 

He failed in the big moment vs Tennessee, couldn’t score a single TD vs Jacksonville, and was was a more turnover Prones Tyrod Taylor level player vs the colts.  
 

It’s a very disappointing pattern and inarguable. It better turn around or you can expect the Jared Goff Comparisons coming soon. 

That one season of not being a contender must have been tough for Pats nation eh? 

 So Allen is responsible for every loss this year gotcha the fact he was out getting a punt blocked against Pittsburgh must have been him

  Must have been Mitch Trubisky who was responsible for nearly 400 yards and 4 touchdowns against Tennessee and I guess it’s Allen’s job to tackle Derrick Freaking Henry huh?

 I guess it’s his fault too that he has to be the best running back on the team since not a single back we have can gain a single freaking yard on 3 and 1

 I guessing it’s his fault that when they where driving the field against the colts Cody Ford decided to get called for holding pushing them back to 3-18 and him forcing the ball into Gabe Davis despite was actually interfered with

 I guess it’s his fault that despite having driven them inside the colts 35 the coach says I’m going to have my kicker kick 57 and 59 yard field goals in the wind and rain 

  I guess it’s his fault that after he cut the game 31-15 they he personally forgot to stop Jonathan Taylor making it 38-15 and pretty much putting the game out of reach 

  I need to realize Allen who was runner up to the league mvp last year has reached Jarrod Goff status despite the fact he’s the teams best running back… and the fact that Goff had one of the best rushing attacks in the league in LA hello remember Todd Gurley?? And playing behind statistically one of the worst olines in football that he himself needs to be held accountable for every single boneheaded thing Brian Daboll comes up with like his 4th down pitch against the Steelers man your right that Allen guy sucks we need Kyle Orton back 

Edited November 23, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat

[PatsFanNH]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Did you watch the game?  I have no idea what you mean by "Allen only scored 7 points making it easy for the Colts to keep running the ball".  Do you think the Colts were going to abandon the run if the game was closer? The Bills only had the ball TWICE from the opening kickoff to about the two minute warning. 

 

On their first possession, after the Colts scored a TD, the Bills had a nice drive going until back to back penalties on the O-line set them back 15 yards. Allen in an attempt to covert a 3rd & 18 threw a risky ball that was picked giving the Colts possession at their own 40.

 

After the Colts scored to go up 14 - 0 Allen led the Bills on a nice TD drive to cut the lead to 14 - 7. The Colts then went on a nearly 9 minute drive that resulted in a FG and a 17 - 7 lead.  McKenzie fumbled the ensuing KO and the Colts scored in one play to go up 24 - 7. Allen then led the Bills to a long FG attempt that hit the upright.

 

You want to now what really turned this game into a blowout? After the Bills cut the Colts lead to 14 - 7 the defense allowed a nearly NINE MINUTE drive to a FG.  And then on the KO McKenzie had one of the worst fumbles I've ever seen in the NFL.  One play later the Colts scored the TD to go up 24 -7.  How the hell did Allen's play up to that point impact the game.  Even his INT on the first drive only gave the Colts the ball at their 40. 

 

 

 

Wow. Ok Colts score 7-0, Bills first Drive a pick and Excellent field position at the 40 for another TD.  Then in the TD Drive, he gets LUCKY the officials change the call from INT to incomplete as there was not enough evidence to overturn an INT Call.  (Only a homer doesn’t think that play is way to close to change.).  So basically in the first 2 drives he gets LUCKY to be 1 and 1 instead of 0-2 with 2 picks. 3rd drive settle for a 57 yard FG try.. (half) 

 

2nd half a 3 and out to start, then a missed 49 yard FG, then another INT,  finally another TD but garbage time, then another INT, then game..

 

Ok so looking over the entire game breakdown.. Allen didn’t play well and was a reason they lossed. So is the fact the Bills D couldn’t stop Taylor if the entire stands yelled TAYLOR IS RUNNING IT.. which I am sure they did. 
 

the truth is, the first INT set the tone for the game, and again was very lucky the refs went back and changed the next one from an INT to an incomplete pass otherwise it’s 24-0 at half. 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

That’s right, because they stopped running. If (as Steven A says) come back and get another TD ITS STILL 24-14.. the point is the O was just as bad as the D and most of the money is spent on the O. 

To start the second half he had two drops one by Dawson Knox and one by Gabe Davis on the three and out the Colts made sure to make it 31-7 after that like I said I doubt he even watched the game 

[P Riv]

The Bills roster has 8 guys sucking up 50+% of the cap, Allen is the poster child and fall guy for that.  Stephen A is basically saying that if you earn the money, then pull that weight.  8 guys should be responsible for 50% of the reason we win by that line of thinking.  Anything less, and they are frauds, also by that line of thinking.

I don't subscribe to it, but it does carry some weight and some relevance.  This is what we've always had here, the only difference is that we have a legit franchise QB.  The fact remains that the front office is not frugal with star contracts and we never have the quality depth that wins championships.  

How does NE have more talent across the board with more cap space?  Look at the contracts in the top and middle of their roster compared to ours.  Their's are more of a gradual slide down, where as ours are like dropping off a cliff from top to middle.  I think that has been, is, and always will be our Achilles heal.

Edited November 23, 2021 by P Riv

[PatsFanNH]

5 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

To start the second half he had two drops one by Dawson Knox and one by Gabe Davis on the three and out the Colts made sure to make it 31-7 after that like I said I doubt he even watched the game 

One of those three was a bad drop 2 were meh throws.. again why are they throwing all three downs?  Dumbest thing ever.. hell the next drive they run all the way down the on 2nd and 5 they try throwing it then in 3rd and 5 as well.. settle for a missed 40 us FG.. what’s sad is the run blocking seemed fine.. but they stopped themselves from running.. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by PatsFanNH

[78thealltimegreat]

1 minute ago, P Riv said:

The Bills roster has 8 guys sucking up 50+% of the cap, Allen is the poster child and fall guy for that.  Stephen A is basically saying that if you earn the money, then pull that weight.  8 guys should be responsible for 50% of the reason we win by that line of thinking.  Anything less, and they are frauds, also by that line of thinking.

I don't subscribe to it, but it does carry some weight and some relevance.  This is what we've always had here, the only difference is that we have a legit franchise QB.  The fact remains that the front office is not frugal with star contracts and we never have the quality depth that wins championships.  

How does NE have more talent across the board with more cap space?  Look at the contracts in the top and middle of their roster compared to ours.  There's are more of a gradual slide down, where as ours are like dropping off a cliff from top to middle.  I think that has been, is, and always will be our Achilles heal.

New England had a qb taking well below market value for years because of Kraft was funneling money to him by cutting large checks to his foundation and his wife is the top paid super model in the world and now Jones is just playing within the system the run a lot and he throws six yard passes…Allen’s contract will be considered a bargain in a few years anyway 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

 So Allen is responsible for every loss this year gotcha the fact he was out getting a punt blocked against Pittsburgh must have been him

  Must have been Mitch Trubisky who was responsible for nearly 400 yards and 4 touchdowns against Tennessee and I guess it’s Allen’s job to tackle Derrick Freaking Henry huh?

 I guess it’s his fault too that he has to be the best running back on the team since not a single back we have can gain a single freaking yard on 3 and 1

 I guessing it’s his fault that when they where driving the field against the colts Cody Ford decided to get called for holding pushing them back to 3-18 and him forcing the ball into Gabe Davis despite was actually interfered with

 I guess it’s his fault that despite having driven them inside the colts 35 the coach says I’m going to have my kicker kick 57 and 59 yard field goals in the wind and rain 

  I guess it’s his fault that after he cut the game 31-15 they he personally forgot to stop Jonathan Taylor making it 38-15 and pretty much putting the game out of reach 

  I need to realize Allen who was runner up to the league mvp last year has reached Jarrod Goff status despite the fact he’s the teams best running back… and the fact that Goff had one of the best rushing attacks in the league in LA hello remember Todd Gurley?? And playing behind statistically one of the worst olines in football that he himself needs to be held accountable for every single boneheaded thing Brian Daboll comes up with like his 4th down pitch against the Steelers man your right that Allen guy sucks we need Kyle Orton back 

If you don’t want to expect better from the second highest paid player in the NFL that’s on you. 
 

18 TDs and 3 turnovers 4 sacks in the wins

6 TDs and 7 turnovers 11 sacks in the losses

 

pretty clear who needs to step up. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[benderbender]

Stephen A, but mostly Michael Irvin sound like a tractor trailer downshifting when pontificating. Then they both mirror each other and it might as well be a breathless dot matrix printer going rrrrrrrrr after a while. 😆

Edited November 23, 2021 by benderbender

[PatsFanNH]

5 minutes ago, benderbender said:

Stephen A, but mostly Michael Irvin sound like a tractor trailer downshifting when pontificating. Then they both mirror each other and it might as well be a breathless dot matrix printer going rrrrrrrrr after a while. 😆

Only thing Irvin said that Stephen A. “Memory”  forgets as true was the fact most if not all the talking heads had written off BB after last year. Stephen A get betrayed that people would say that. Lol

[78thealltimegreat]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you don’t want to expect better from the second highest paid player in the NFL that’s on you. 
 

18 TDs and 3 turnovers 4 sacks in the wins

6 TDs and 7 turnovers 11 sacks in the losses

 

pretty clear who needs to step up. 

I would if his line wasn’t the 30th rated blocking group in the NFL 

[P Riv]

14 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

New England had a qb taking well below market value for years because of Kraft was funneling money to him by cutting large checks to his foundation and his wife is the top paid super model in the world and now Jones is just playing within the system the run a lot and he throws six yard passes…Allen’s contract will be considered a bargain in a few years anyway 

 

Was it that far below market?  In 2018 he was at 10.73% of their cap, Allen is at around 6% of ours.

[Big Blitz]

Did Matt Judon fit here?  Did we make him an offer?  Did any other team offer what the Pats could for him?

 

Nope.

 

You know why the Patriots got those FAs - because they had money.   They already had a good D that opted out come back now add a candidate for DPOY.

 

Add Hunter Henry.

 

Jonnu Smith.

 

All with cap space few other teams had.  

 

And don't let the rookie QB have to win you games and don't let him lose them for you.   

 

They already had a good oline.  So their trenches are solid.  I know that's taboo in 2021 football to talk about building that way bc all low info media hears is "ground and pound."  

 

 

Maybe the "experts" shouldn't have expected the AFC East to be a cakewalk.  I didn't but I still expect to win it.  And the Patriots to lose 3-4 more games.  

Edited November 23, 2021 by Big Blitz

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, P Riv said:

 

Was it that far below market?  In 2018 he was at 10.73% of their cap, Allen is at around 6% of ours.

Oh yes when you consider the contracts Brady Goff Brees and Stafford all signed 

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Oh yes when you consider the contracts Brady Goff Brees and Stafford all signed 

You may want take Brady off that list. He literally renegotiated his contract in the offseason so the Bucs have more cap spaces Typical Brady. 

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Did Matt Judon fit here?  Did we make him an offer?  Did any other team offer what the Pats could for him?

 

Nope.

 

You know why the Patriots got those FAs - because they had money.   They already had a good D that opted out come back now add a candidate for DPOY.

 

Add Hunter Henry.

 

Jonnu Smith.

 

All with cap space few other teams had.  

 

And don't let the rookie QB have to win you games and don't let him lose them for you.   

They already had a good oline.  So their trenches are solid.  I know that's taboo in 2021 football to talk about building that way bc all low info media hears is "ground and pound."  

 

 

Maybe the "experts" shouldn't have expected the AFC East to be a cakewalk.  I didn't but I still expect to win it.  And the Patriots to lose 3-4 more games.  

The Pats were in Cap Jail last year. I think they had 1 million or less left before the opt outs happened.

 

Even as a Pats fan I don’t expect them go undefeated but I see 2 maybe 3 losses left.. I don’t see a 4th, and 3 only happens if the Bills sweep. 

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You may want take Brady off that list. He literally renegotiated his contract in the offseason so the Bucs have more cap spaces Typical Brady. 

Yes how much are him and his wife worth and how many subway commercials is he doing now? 

[JerseyBills]

The O hasn't been the same as 2020 all year.

The numbers look great because our D has been playing amazing and getting consistent turnovers.

 

This O reminds me more of 2019

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yes how much are him and his wife worth and how many subway commercials is he doing now? 

What does that have to do with him taking less from TB?  So the fact his wife is also successful and he makes money from ads makes him different? Well then when is Mahomes going to renegotiate since he has State Farm money? Heck Mayfield should be playing for free! 

[Big Blitz]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You may want take Brady off that list. He literally renegotiated his contract in the offseason so the Bucs have more cap spaces Typical Brady. 

The Pats were in Cap Jail last year. I think they had 1 million or less left before the opt outs happened.

 

 

 

 

As of March 17, 2021, the Patriots are projected to have $69,030,131 in cap space for 2021.

 

The Patriots rolled over $19.6 million in 2020 cap space.

 

Without much money tied into the quarterback position, the Patriots have a ton of cap room to make some moves this offseason. It will be interesting to see how Bill Belichick plans to shape this roster.

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/2021/1/22/22228915/new-england-patriots-salary-cap-space-2021-contracts-free-agents-cam-newton-julian-edelman

 

 

 

 

And they spent all of it

Edited November 23, 2021 by Big Blitz

[PatsFanNH]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

As of March 17, 2021, the Patriots are projected to have $69,030,131 in cap space for 2021.

 

The Patriots rolled over $19.6 million in 2020 cap space.

 

Without much money tied into the quarterback position, the Patriots have a ton of cap room to make some moves this offseason. It will be interesting to see how Bill Belichick plans to shape this roster.

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/2021/1/22/22228915/new-england-patriots-salary-cap-space-2021-contracts-free-agents-cam-newton-julian-edelman

 

 

 

 

And they spent all of it

Lol didn’t read my entire post did you? “They had less than 1 Million until all the opt outs” which happened just before the season and all the good FA were gone. The Patriots had the highest number of opt outs in the NFL.  Thus opening space up. 
 

oh and FYI the Pats had over $20 million locked up in QB, most of it for Brady and the Bonus he got the year before. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by PatsFanNH

[78thealltimegreat]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

What does that have to do with him taking less from TB?  So the fact his wife is also successful and he makes money from ads makes him different? Well then when is Mahomes going to renegotiate since he has State Farm money? Heck Mayfield should be playing for free! 

Cause they don’t have a wife worth a quarter of a billion dollars 

[P Riv]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

As of March 17, 2021, the Patriots are projected to have $69,030,131 in cap space for 2021.

 

The Patriots rolled over $19.6 million in 2020 cap space.

 

Without much money tied into the quarterback position, the Patriots have a ton of cap room to make some moves this offseason. It will be interesting to see how Bill Belichick plans to shape this roster.

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/2021/1/22/22228915/new-england-patriots-salary-cap-space-2021-contracts-free-agents-cam-newton-julian-edelman

 

And they spent all of it

I think Judon may be the only lock at LB for them, who knows with Collins, van Noy, and Hightower.  That's a lot of money to tie up in older veterans.  I wouldn't be surprised if they keep one, then spend the money on another high priced LB and a CB.  I don't see them paying Jackson.  They seem more or less set just about everywhere else, so they may just keep their own.  

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Cause they don’t have a wife worth a quarter of a billion dollars 

Oh so in order to be a constant champion you need a wifey be just as rich. Hmm seems off I’d rather make 12 mill and have a great team around me rather than 26 mil and running for my life all the time. Heck may make my career longer this make more later.  
 

 

[P Riv]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lol didn’t read my entire post did you? “They had less than 1 Million until all the opt outs” which happened just before the season and all the good FA were gone. The Patriots had the highest number of opt outs in the NFL.  Thus opening space up. 
 

oh and FYI the Pats had over $20 million locked up in QB, most of it for Brady and the Bonus he got the year before. 

 

That was last year, the bills from all those SBs had to get paid.  Looked like Hoody on a bargain hunt and empty wallet.  

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, P Riv said:

I think Judon may be the only lock at LB for them, who knows with Collins, van Noy, and Hightower.  That's a lot of money to tie up in older veterans.  I wouldn't be surprised if they keep one, then spend the money on another high priced LB and a CB.  I don't see them paying Jackson.  They seem more or less set just about everywhere else, so they may just keep their own.  

Hightower may retire, I think Van Noy takes less to stay after his experience in Miami.  I Hope they pay Jackson and draft a good CB early in the draft. Collins be gone again as some dumb team offers him way to much again.

2 minutes ago, P Riv said:

 

That was last year, the bills from all those SBs had to get paid.  Looked like Hoody on a bargain hunt and empty wallet.  

He got lucky that team was ranked 30th in talent and ended up placing in the middle of the pack record wise last year. IMO that was his best coaching job as a Pats HC.

[78thealltimegreat]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Oh so in order to be a constant champion you need a wifey be just as rich. Hmm seems off I’d rather make 12 mill and have a great team around me rather than 26 mil and running for my life all the time. Heck may make my career longer this make more later.  
 

 

Football is a business these players have a shelf life your coach the hoodie does it all the time when a player wants a few bucks he’s out the door…rest assured Tom is unselfish because he’s making up the money elsewhere 

[cDAVIS]

13 hours ago, Buftex said:

And what about the 20 years before this season, when the Patriots were praised for taking exactly the same approach as Beane has, in filling their roster?  There are 7 games left in this season...

I completely agree with you. It's amazing how many fans are this quick to shut down this franchise. Even if we have a down year and miss the playoffs we have made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years and have a very solid roster to build on. I am ecstatic with our team and our future, a mid-season lull won't change that.

[PatsFanNH]

6 minutes ago, cDAVIS said:

I completely agree with you. It's amazing how many fans are this quick to shut down this franchise. Even if we have a down year and miss the playoffs we have made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years and have a very solid roster to build on. I am ecstatic with our team and our future, a mid-season lull won't change that.

Wait?  For 20 years BB always built the roster where there was not a huge drop off from the starter to the backup. The reason this worked well especially on the O line is the fact Scar could turn almost anyone into a decent O lineman. The man was the best O line coach ever! But BB rarely paid more for 1 or 2 players.. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, Buftex said:

Jordan Poyer, Micah Hyde... I won't waste a lot of time arguing the point.. the argument that starts out "take away all the good players he brought in, than what has he done?" isn't really worth it.   

 

I get it...the Bills disappointed all of us... the season ain't over... there have been times in recent years where elite teams like the Bucs, Chiefs and your beloved Pats have had lulls at parts of the season.  They may not be the Super Bowl champs that so many crowned them as, but lets not pretend that one really ***** performance destroys all the progress they have made. 

 

Unless you are truly convinced that they really are a fraud, I hold out hope that the monumental disaster that we saw yesterday, that affected literally every facet of the team, was an aberration of sorts.  Maybe I am nuts....but I will be watching every game they play this season....whether it is seven more, or 8- 11, I am still thinking they have a good shot at winning them.  The wheels aren't completely off...

Poyer and Hyde were Whaley and McD signings not Beane. 

Beane has been up and down in free agency. Overpaid for Star. Trent Murphy was a bust. Smoke was good for a season and a half. Beasley is outstanding.  Feliciano is ok. Butler, Addison, and the other pile of crap DT they let go after one year have been awful. Overpaid for Morse but he is at least a capable center. Williams deal I thought was a good one.

[dave mcbride]

38 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

 

He got lucky that team was ranked 30th in talent and ended up placing in the middle of the pack record wise last year. IMO that was his best coaching job as a Pats HC.

How could you say this after 2002? His QB went down and he went with a completely inexperienced late round pick. And he outschemed everyone on his way to a SB victory. They were not that talented at all. With regard to last year's team, they were probably as or more talented than the 2017 Bills, which went 9-7. My point is, doing a great job with poor talent requires that you at least get to .500.

[blacklabel]

14 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

The Patriots signed quality free agents ,  Beanne has signed nothing but trash free agents.  Other then Beasley he has wasted loads of money and free agents and not one is a difference maker,  add his wasted draft choices and you have a team that is average 

 

These takes come from the same type of people who would've been crying had Beane let someone like Milano walk out the door. Milano's trash? They're an entirely different defense when he plays. They chose to keep their core team together and some of those dudes are injured right now, simple as that. 

[P Riv]

18 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

But BB rarely paid more for 1 or 2 players.. 

 

Yes, he paid 12 and 24 (all 3 of them), thats about it.  

 

[PatsFanNH]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

How could you say this after 2002? His QB went down and he went with a completely inexperienced late round pick. And he outschemed everyone on his way to a SB victory. They were not that talented at all. With regard to last year's team, they were probably as or more talented than the 2017 Bills, which went 9-7. My point is, doing a great job with poor talent requires that you at least get to .500.

First  the Pats D in 2001 was top 10. The D last year had a lot of scrubs on it and still did very well. In 2001 he got competent QB play from an unknown, last year he got sub par QB play from a former NFL MVP. 
 

The Talent level on 2001 squad was much higher than 2019.  Also they would have been .500 with competent QB play either by Newton in just 1 of many bad games he lost, or I don’t know any QB had shown up for the KC game! So while 7-9 sounds bad all fans know coaching with a QB can make simple throws they be 10-6.

[P Riv]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

How could you say this after 2002? His QB went down and he went with a completely inexperienced late round pick. And he outschemed everyone on his way to a SB victory. They were not that talented at all. 

 

Not that talented?  They still had the defensive nucleus of the team that went to SB31.  That and Ty Law, McGinist, and Seymour are either in the HoF or headed there soon.  Their defense that year was incredibly talented.  The offense, not so much.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

First  the Pats D in 2001 was top 10. The D last year had a lot of scrubs on it and still did very well. In 2001 he got competent QB play from an unknown, last year he got sub par QB play from a former NFL MVP. 
 

The Talent level on 2001 squad was much higher than 2019.  Also they would have been .500 with competent QB play either by Newton in just 1 of many bad games he lost, or I don’t know any QB had shown up for the KC game! So while 7-9 sounds bad all fans know coaching with a QB can make simple throws they be 10-6.

The talent level was higher, but not that much higher. And they had a top 10 defense in 2001 because of ... coaching. Plus they ranked seventh in yardage on defense last season, partly because their secondary was still very good! In the 2001 season, they won the SB against a vastly more talented team. Last year's team started 6-6 and went 1-3 down the stretch, getting blown out a couple of times before beating a terrible Jets team in a run-for-the-bus game. I will never not challenge Pats fans who claim that last season was some sort of miracle job. Gimme a break. They went 7-9. That's hardly his best coaching season. 

3 minutes ago, P Riv said:

 

Not that talented?  They still had the defensive nucleus of the team that went to SB31.  That and Ty Law, McGinist, and Seymour are either in the HoF or headed there soon.  Their defense that year was incredibly talented.  The offense, not so much.

More than talent, they were extremely well coached. It's why it was his best coaching job. Their defense was fine last year too - better than league average.

[P Riv]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The talent level was higher, but not that much higher. And they had a top 10 defense in 2001 because of ... coaching.

 

Hoodie helped build that defense in 1996 when he coached it in SB 31.  Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi and Otis Smith were all starters in a previous SB under Belichick, and to them you can add the talent of Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Terrell Buckly, and Ted Johnson....  That was a great defense, clipped us twice.  

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, P Riv said:

 

Hoodie helped build that defense in 1996 when he coached it in SB 31.  Milloy, Law, McGinest, Bruschi and Otis Smith were all starters in a previous SB under Belichick, and to them you can add the talent of Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Terrell Buckly, and Ted Johnson....  That was a great defense, clipped us twice.  

Do you honestly believe that Bill Belichick's coaching job was better last season than in 2001, a year in which they had a miraculous SB run with a completely inexperienced QB?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

37 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

These takes come from the same type of people who would've been crying had Beane let someone like Milano walk out the door. Milano's trash? They're an entirely different defense when he plays. They chose to keep their core team together and some of those dudes are injured right now, simple as that. 

Agree.  I don't call Beane a wizard but I thought this last off-season was his finest work.  He got guys that were underperforming to take pay cuts. He brought back Milano and Williams.  And he signed Sanders to replace Smoke.  All good moves.   

Where Beane did poorly was the draft.  He did not add a 1-tech DT nor an interior OL.  I wanted Najee Harris in the first round but once he was gone I was fine with Rousseau.  After that it should have been 1-tech DT and a C/G next. Also all those late round picks are useless on a team with this much talent. He should have spent a few of those picks to move up into the 4th round.  

My mantra has not changed. They should be in win now at all costs.  I don't think Beane thinks that way though.  He has been consistent in saying sustained success.  That's fine, but those 2022 draft picks aren't doing anything to help Allen now.  Zach Ertz has 22 receptions in 5 games with AZ for a fifth round pick!  Sweeney has 17 receptions in his career.  Doyle the most recent 5th round pick has maybe 22 seconds of playing time.  There were moves to be made and he stood pat. Now we just have to hope the injured/COVID players come back and play well down the stretch.  

 

[RobbRiddick]

How can anyone listen to that idiot shouting and screaming no matter what the topic is?

[P Riv]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Do you honestly believe that Bill Belichick's coaching job was better last season than in 2001, a year in which they had a miraculous SB run with a completely inexperienced QB?

 

Not me, I was just taken back by the idea that the 2001 team wasn't "that" talented when it had 3 HoF'rs on it and other pro-bowl players, all on defense.