two years of free preschool plus two years of free community college

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This seems like a good idea, but shouldn’t it be run at state or school district level and not the federal level? Ie make it federal law but make school districts fund and execute? 

 

 

Quote

Biden plan seeks to expand education, from pre-K to college (from @AP)

 

https://apnews.com/article/a66fb165e28630b0bd3965eae1f62e63 

 

[Orlando Tim]

16 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This seems like a good idea, but shouldn’t it be run at state or school district level and not the federal level? Ie make it federal law but make school districts fund and execute? 

 

 

 

Both ends of this is a terrible idea. Community colleges should be cheap relatively speaking but definitely not free, the student should have some skin in the game. As for the preschool in Florida we have VPK which is funded by the state and was created to help lower socio kids get a head start. Part of requirements to use it is mandatory attendance by kid and those parents who are low do not make their kids go either, so the gap is not being helped. Quality daycare is expensive but it is better than free terrible daycare.

[Irv]

I love the way moron-libs say it's "free".  Somebody is paying for it!  What a joke.

 

What

A

Mess  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

53 minutes ago, Irv said:

I love the way moron-libs say it's "free".  Somebody is paying for it!  What a joke.

 

What

A

Mess  

That’s true. Free is a misnomer.
 

But is giving every American child access to public preschool a bad idea?

 

And on the flip side if they can focus to useful post high school associates degrees, is it a bad idea to have a public trade school option to provide a path to some occupation? 
 

I feel like this is a topic that shouldn’t be as polarizing as the respective parties try to make it. 

[Irv]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

That’s true. Free is a misnomer.
 

But is giving every American child access to public preschool a bad idea?

 

And on the flip side if they can focus to useful post high school associates degrees, is it a bad idea to have a public trade school option to provide a path to some occupation? 
 

I feel like this is a topic that shouldn’t be as polarizing as the respective parties try to make it. 

 

I think it's a good idea.  This is coming from a guy who has put two kids through St Bonaventure.  But it's not free.    

[Tiberius]

Not to steer the conversation in a different direction, but sort of expand on it. I saw a picture of a cat scan of "normal" kids (3 years old) and the ones for neglected kids and you can see a huge difference. 

 

Why not do a scan of every kid at age two or something to see how they are doing. Kids that are obviously abused or neglected can be located and helped. 

 

How about it? 

[BillStime]

Funny how the GQP cult never complain about the amount of tax payer funds spent on building/maintaining prisons and housing prisoners.

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Funny how the GQP cult never complain about the amount of tax payer funds spent on building/maintaining prisons and housing prisoners.

Or making things illegal to target people (War on drugs) 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Not to steer the conversation in a different direction, but sort of expand on it. I saw a picture of a cat scan of "normal" kids (3 years old) and the ones for neglected kids and you can see a huge difference. 

 

Why not do a scan of every kid at age two or something to see how they are doing. Kids that are obviously abused or neglected can be located and helped. 

 

How about it? 

In theory these things sound idealistic and wonderful, until the  omnipotent institution run by politicians who decide what constitutes “normal”, needs to grow their money, budget, power. 

[Boatdrinks]

The best idea is to not have children that you can’t afford. I wonder how many folks clamoring for “ free” day care have 60” flat screen TVs , SUV’s and the latest iPhones ? 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

In theory these things sound idealistic and wonderful, until the  omnipotent institution run by politicians who decide what constitutes “normal”, needs to grow their money, budget, power. 

Or Abby Normal. 

 

Still, it might save a lot of money going forward as you help people grow into solid contributing citizens instead of something less 

[Westside]

50 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

That’s true. Free is a misnomer.
 

But is giving every American child access to public preschool a bad idea?

 

And on the flip side if they can focus to useful post high school associates degrees, is it a bad idea to have a public trade school option to provide a path to some occupation? 
 

I feel like this is a topic that shouldn’t be as polarizing as the respective parties try to make it. 

I agree, the Democrat in me likes this idea. College needs to be more attainable for kids from poor families. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Bidens_basement said:

I agree, the Democrat in me likes this idea. College needs to be more attainable for kids from poor families. 

You voted for Bill Clinton, didn't you? 

[Westside]

30 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Not to steer the conversation in a different direction, but sort of expand on it. I saw a picture of a cat scan of "normal" kids (3 years old) and the ones for neglected kids and you can see a huge difference. 

 

Why not do a scan of every kid at age two or something to see how they are doing. Kids that are obviously abused or neglected can be located and helped. 

 

How about it? 

If it actually works, I would be on board with it. This is America, every child should have every tool available to them to help make them positive contributors to our society.

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

I agree, the Democrat in me likes this idea. College needs to be more attainable for kids from poor families. 

Government interference in the marketplace has made College too expensive. 

[Westside]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Government interference in the marketplace has made College too expensive. 

I don’t have a better solution, sticking kids with huge student loans isn’t the answer. There’s not much difference between government grants you don’t have to pay back and free college for the first two years. Of course it has to be merit based. 
Along with two years free college, I believe trade schools need to be freely available as well. Not every kid wants to go to college.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Government interference in the marketplace has made College too expensive. 

true the federal Ponzi scheme of federal student loans was as shameful as the 1929 stock market bust.  Typical unintended consequences of these federal programs.  The idealists never think through how actual human behavior will respond to these glorious ideas or how the bureaucrats will take advantage of said programs to grow their own power. 

 

that’s why it makes sense for a federal requirement that is administered on a state and local level.  Maybe also taxed and paid for at that level. 

[Pokebball]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Not to steer the conversation in a different direction, but sort of expand on it. I saw a picture of a cat scan of "normal" kids (3 years old) and the ones for neglected kids and you can see a huge difference. 

 

Why not do a scan of every kid at age two or something to see how they are doing. Kids that are obviously abused or neglected can be located and helped. 

 

How about it? 

Early education is proven to be extremely important.  Access to the children is a huge challenge, however.  I live in a small community and access to our high risk kiddos is our biggest challenge.  It begins with assuming they have transportation.

[Irv]

I would wait to implement any of these programs until we have a President who is not demented.  We don't want another crisis to add to the growing list of things he's botched. 

 

What

A

Mess

[Beach]

from my experience- pre school "teachers" are among the laziest people on earth, they are kept around due to necessity not skill.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This seems like a good idea, but shouldn’t it be run at state or school district level and not the federal level? Ie make it federal law but make school districts fund and execute? 

 

 

 

This is an excellent piece that seems to tout Biden’s commitment to improving the lives of our children.  
 

It spells absolutely nothing out about how it’s funded.  Who gets paid in this free model?  How do stakeholders that deliver the teaching get paid in this free model?  How are the  infrastructure costs covered in this free model?  
 

It seems unlikely that it’s free, it’s a lie to suggest it is, and seems fair to report how it’s funded.  
 

Then again, maybe the AP didn’t think of it. 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is an excellent piece that seems to tout Biden’s commitment to improving the lives of our children.  
 

It spells absolutely nothing out about how it’s funded.  Who gets paid in this free model?  How do stakeholders that deliver the teaching get paid in this free model?  How are the  infrastructure costs covered in this free model?  
 

It seems unlikely that it’s free, it’s a lie to suggest it is, and seems fair to report how it’s funded.  
 

Then again, maybe the AP didn’t think of it. 

 

 

It’s “ free in the same way that a boy is a girl , or that not only girls and women get pregnant. 

[unbillievable]

Is there going to be some academic requirement to get the money? Too many unqualified kids waste their time in college as it is.

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Is there going to be some academic requirement to get the money? Too many unqualified kids waste their time in college as it is.

They’ll lower the standards so that everyone graduates or something like that. 

[reddogblitz]

6 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Early education is proven to be extremely important.  Access to the children is a huge challenge, however.  I live in a small community and access to our high risk kiddos is our biggest challenge.  It begins with assuming they have transportation.

 

How has it been proven to be extremely important?  I wonder about this because I didn't even go to kindergarten.  Started in the first grade.  I got a BBA in Business Computer Information Systems and just wrapped up a 38 year in computers doing prgramming, consulting, sales, support, and installations and upgrades.

 

What's changed?

[Governor]

Is you drunk already? It’s only 7:15. Lol.

8 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

That’s true. Free is a misnomer.
 

But is giving every American child access to public preschool a bad idea?

 

And on the flip side if they can focus to useful post high school associates degrees, is it a bad idea to have a public trade school option to provide a path to some occupation? 
 

I feel like this is a topic that shouldn’t be as polarizing as the respective parties try to make it. 

Preschool isn’t necessary. That’s just another excuse to dump children off on the state which perpetuates new generations of bad parents. 
 

Who the hell needs to go to preschool? How bad of a parent would you have to be to not have your kid ready for kindergarten?

 

Oh, you mean “state sponsored” babysitting so you can go out each day and play capitalist. Now I get it. So, I have to pay for your socialist babysitting just so you guys have a few hours at night to play pretend capitalist. Lol. I see.

 

As far as free college. It’s real simple. It stays free if you keep you gpa up, or you have to start paying.
 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Governor

[SoCal Deek]

The less ‘free’ stuff the better. People have to have skin in the game or little benefit will come from it. Now, that doesn’t mean they have to pay the entire bill but everyone should have to pay SOMETHING. You know it. We all know it. It’s just human nature. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

47 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How has it been proven to be extremely important?  I wonder about this because I didn't even go to kindergarten.  Started in the first grade.  I got a BBA in Business Computer Information Systems and just wrapped up a 38 year in computers doing prgramming, consulting, sales, support, and installations and upgrades.

 

What's changed?

For every guy like you who blew off kindergarten smoking, chasing tail and riding a Big Wheel Harley only to find success later in life,  there are so so many who’s absolute peak comes in the second year of pre-K.  
 

What does it say about our collective humanity if we were to rob them of those heady days aged 3-4.5?   

[Governor]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

For every guy like you who blew off kindergarten smoking, chasing tail and riding a Big Wheel Harley only to find success later in life,  there are so so many who’s absolute peak comes in the second year of pre-K.  
 

What does it say about our collective humanity if we were to rob them of those heady days aged 3-4.5?   

Just so we’re clear here…..

 

”Collective humanity” sounds a lot like collectivism. That’s not at all like individualism, which this board praises.

 
So, free preschool and Biden child tax credit for YOU = good.

 

Welfare = bad

 

Free school lunches = bad

Unemployment for working class people = bad GEt A jOb!

 

HC for working poor = bad gET yOUr oWN!

 

Hmm. I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed this level of Socialism/white entitlement before from a board full of so-called libertarians.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Governor

[Pokebball]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How has it been proven to be extremely important?  I wonder about this because I didn't even go to kindergarten.  Started in the first grade.  I got a BBA in Business Computer Information Systems and just wrapped up a 38 year in computers doing prgramming, consulting, sales, support, and installations and upgrades.

 

What's changed?

The science is probably too deep for a discussion on this board, but it has clearly been shown that a child's cognitive learning ability begins around 2 yrs of age.  

 

I'm not sure what you're background has to do with anything.  I'm not saying success isn't possible without it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Governor said:

Is you drunk already? It’s only 7:15. Lol.

Preschool isn’t necessary. That’s just another excuse to dump children off on the state which perpetuates new generations of bad parents. 
 

Who the hell needs to go to preschool? How bad of a parent would you have to be to not have your kid ready for kindergarten?

 

Oh, you mean “state sponsored” babysitting so you can go out each day and play capitalist. Now I get it. So, I have to pay for your socialist babysitting just so you guys have a few hours at night to play pretend capitalist. Lol. I see.

 

As far as free college. It’s real simple. It stays free if you keep you gpa up, or you have to start paying.
 

 

 

like every liberal ever, ok with infinite giveaways until something ‘you’ didn’t get or ‘you’ may have to pay for is on the table… 😂 

then it’s woah hold up… what’s this all about?   NOT FAIR 😢 

 

Ask your GF who I think you mentioned was a school teacher about the value of pre-school. There is educational value in it, irrespective of the parents occupation or lack there of.

 

oh wait that sounds like actual progress.. I bet you hate all the people you branded as political opposition show general support of this concept… must burn those idealogical sheep-stincts. 

[Governor]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

like every liberal ever, ok with infinite giveaways until something ‘you’ didn’t get or ‘you’ may have to pay for is on the table… 😂 

then it’s woah hold up… what’s this all about?   NOT FAIR 😢 

 

Ask your GF who I think you mentioned was a school teacher about the value of pre-school. There is educational value in it, irrespective of the parents occupation or lack there of.

 

oh wait that sounds like actual progress.. I bet you hate all the people you branded as political opposition show general support of this concept… must burn those idealogical sheep-stincts. 

Isn’t that exactly what “you’re” doing right now? I would never ask the state and fellow taxpayers to raise my children.

 

This board has gone full Marxist Antifa Communist!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, Governor said:

Isn’t that exactly what “you’re” doing right now? I would never ask the state and fellow taxpayers to raise my children.

 

This board has gone full Marxist Antifa Communist!

i would definitely ask the state to raise your children 😂 

[Governor]

35 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

i would definitely ask the state to raise your children 😂 

Why on earth would I, as a taxpayer, care about the development of someone else’s kid, pay taxes to babysit that kid, so the parents can continue contributing to a broken economic system while millions can’t even have quality HC in that same system?

 

I’m a borderline self-identified communist and I think that’s absolutely crazy!

 

Nanny state socialism for some……rugged individualism and unregulated capitalism for everyone else. I’ve never seen so many people that totally rely on the state in my life. 
 

People should be paying more taxes if they have children, not getting tax breaks and free babysitting.

 

That’s far worse than erasing student loan debt for people. There should be zero policy aimed towards rewarding bad behavior, not until you bend the knee and swear allegiance to Uncle Joe.
 

Socialism!

Edited September 28, 2021 by Governor

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

For every guy like you who blew off kindergarten smoking, chasing tail and riding a Big Wheel Harley only to find success later in life,  there are so so many who’s absolute peak comes in the second year of pre-K. 

 

Nope. This was pre Big Wheel era.  I rode a metal tricycle while smoking and chasing tail.

 

1 hour ago, Pokebball said:

The science is probably too deep for a discussion on this board, but it has clearly been shown that a child's cognitive learning ability begins around 2 yrs of age.  

 

I'm not sure what you're background has to do with anything.  I'm not saying success isn't possible without it.

 

Try me on the science.  Or maybe just a link or two.

 

This is the first I've heard of the 2 year old thing.  That's why I asked.

 

But really, what are they gonna learn at 2-4 in school besides being nice and paste doesn't really taste that good?  Help me out here.

[Pokebball]

10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Try me on the science.  Or maybe just a link or two.

 

This is the first I've heard of the 2 year old thing.  That's why I asked.

 

But really, what are they gonna learn at 2-4 in school besides being nice and paste doesn't really taste that good?  Help me out here.

Link

[reddogblitz]

7 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Link

 

Gracias

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

49 minutes ago, Governor said:

Why on earth would I, as a taxpayer, care about the development of someone else’s kid, pay taxes to babysit that kid, so the parents can continue contributing to a broken economic system while millions can’t even have quality HC in that same system?

 

I’m a borderline self-identified communist and I think that’s absolutely crazy!

 

Nanny state socialism for some……rugged individualism and unregulated capitalism for everyone else. I’ve never seen so many people that totally rely on the state in my life. 
 

People should be paying more taxes if they have children, not getting tax breaks and free babysitting.

 

That’s far worse than erasing student loan debt for people. There should be zero policy aimed towards rewarding bad behavior, not until you bend the knee and swear allegiance to Uncle Joe.
 

Socialism!

you’ve convinced me that adults that don’t have children should pay super extra taxes to subsidize people that do. It takes a village right??
 

I can’t think of a more progressive idea.

 

And as always…. Socialists love every one else paying their fair share… until it’s their turn to contribute.  

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Governor said:

Just so we’re clear here…..

 

”Collective humanity” sounds a lot like collectivism. That’s not at all like individualism, which this board praises.

 
So, free preschool and Biden child tax credit for YOU = good.

 

Welfare = bad

 

Free school lunches = bad

Unemployment for working class people = bad GEt A jOb!

 

HC for working poor = bad gET yOUr oWN!

 

Hmm. I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed this level of Socialism/white entitlement before from a board full of so-called libertarians.

 

 

To be clear, no, to everything.   
 

 

[Governor]

14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

you’ve convinced me that adults that don’t have children should pay super extra taxes to subsidize people that do. It takes a village right??
 

I can’t think of a more progressive idea.

I’m not a progressive. There should be zero policy geared towards helping middle class homeowners with kids. The entire tax code and every other existing policy is already in place to lift up that group. 
 

There should also be zero policy geared specifically for children and parents. It just isn’t sound policy.

 

If a policy/program isn’t good enough and available for every American citizen, then it isn’t sound policy and shouldn’t be passed. No more means-testing and targeted hand outs.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Governor