Could CRT bring about a race war?

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Exactly.  We're are not "freaking out" over the teaching of CRT.  That's what the headlines are telling you. 

 

Do you think, with the track record of our predominately liberal academia, that all they plan to do is teach race relations and not try to push an agenda/narrative?  This will likely not be just "good and healthy" teaching of history. 

 

I find it a bigger problem that only 8% of High School Seniors can identify slavery as the central cause to the Civil War. I can't really get too worked up about random esoteric examples of over correcting and being a little too woke when the much wider spread issue is the lack of properly educating K-12 students about the history and current impact of race in America. 

[Chef Jim]

39 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I find it a bigger problem that only 8% of High School Seniors can identify slavery as the central cause to the Civil War. I can't really get too worked up about random esoteric examples of over correcting and being a little too woke when the much wider spread issue is the lack of properly educating K-12 students about the history and current impact of race in America. 

And what does the lack of knowledge of central cause of the civil war have to so with CRT?  
 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

59 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I find it a bigger problem that only 8% of High School Seniors can identify slavery as the central cause to the Civil War. I can't really get too worked up about random esoteric examples of over correcting and being a little too woke when the much wider spread issue is the lack of properly educating K-12 students about the history and current impact of race in America. 

CRT has nothing to do with causes of civil war. 
 

Also ‘slavery’ is a poor oversimplification. The south wanted to keep slavery as a means of economic power (as twisted as that is) and after wrangling over legislative power to do so as new territories joined up, they said we’re out!  The north wasn’t having that so Tim came the military.  They were not fighting some righteous cause. 
 

By the way, I’m guessing an overwhelming majority thought the main cause of the civil war was rebelling against British tea or something. 
 

 

[unbillievable]

8 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I find it a bigger problem that only 8% of High School Seniors can identify slavery as the central cause to the Civil War. I can't really get too worked up about random esoteric examples of over correcting and being a little too woke when the much wider spread issue is the lack of properly educating K-12 students about the history and current impact of race in America. 

 

It would be better for the children not to know about slavery, than to actively create more racists.

[Wacka]

13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Was everyone asleep during history class? What in the world do these CRT proponents think we were ALL being taught? Knock it off with this ‘we need to teach history crap’. We all took history! You’re not talking to people who didn’t attend school in America. We all did.

It's not our fault they were sleeping or high during history class.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Wacka said:

It's not our fault they were sleeping or high during history class.

Exactly. Maybe these liberals need a refresher course. The rest of us were apparently paying attention. 

[Tiberius]

21 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

What you're suggesting is conjecture and speculation.  Your father would have been put in jail if he was black?  I would frankly prefer to hear his perspective on that time and the events of it rather than his son's view.  As per prison, although stats are hard to come by my best guess using available sources would put 1960 prison population in the ballpark of around 65% White.   

The existence of institutions such as separate but equal are well documented and are no secret to anyone.  I learned of this in high school (and believe it or not we also learned about the Native American tribes that inhabited the area).  And also gained awareness of social issues through involvement in the labor union and civil rights movements in my younger days.  And as a result met and socialized with people then that lived under the system. 

But these social arrangements were outlawed with the civil rights acts of the mid-1960's.  So its been about 55 years or 3 generations.  Anyone under about the age of about 55 has no personal experience living under such a system, the oppressor or the oppressed.  I could bump that age up to 60 to include anyone living at the time under age 5.  That's about 2/3+ of the US population. 

The activists and protesters involved in groups like BLM citing these historical wrongs (which they were) have zero life experience in that system.  Most are highly educated many with advanced degrees and grew up in higher income and middle to upper class households.  They are far from oppressed.  And strangely their confrontational approach to race relations and the pursuit of "equality" differ markedly from that of their elders.  People that experienced blatant racism and fought for rights.  So how can a system that hasn't existing for about 60 years that anyone under 55 plus up to maybe 5 more years has never experienced from any perspective have such a profound effect on the present?

Conjecture? No, race was a critical feature of law and economics at the time. There was virtually no black middle class BY LAW! 

 

65% White in 1960? So you are saying that the 8% of the black population made up the rest, or 45%? 

 

We do know that the war of drugs targeted the black and Latino communities, even though they used drugs at same rate as whites. 

 

Your position is that black poverty today is in no way related to the fact they were not able to generate generational wealth over the past several centuries? Seriously? 

[Frat-Train]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Conjecture? No, race was a critical feature of law and economics at the time. There was virtually no black middle class BY LAW! 

 

65% White in 1960? So you are saying that the 8% of the black population made up the rest, or 45%? 

 

We do know that the war of drugs targeted the black and Latino communities, even though they used drugs at same rate as whites. 

 

Your position is that black poverty today is in no way related to the fact they were not able to generate generational wealth over the past several centuries? Seriously? 

Your math is blowing my mind…

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, Frat-Train said:

Your math is blowing my mind…

You said you put me on ignore buddy. 

[Doc]

Does it teach that African nations invented black slavery?  That Native Americans owned slaves?  That prior to the Civil War there were about 4,000 free black people who owned over 12,000 black slaves?

[SoCal Deek]

36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Conjecture? No, race was a critical feature of law and economics at the time. There was virtually no black middle class BY LAW! 

 

65% White in 1960? So you are saying that the 8% of the black population made up the rest, or 45%? 

 

We do know that the war of drugs targeted the black and Latino communities, even though they used drugs at same rate as whites. 

 

Your position is that black poverty today is in no way related to the fact they were not able to generate generational wealth over the past several centuries? Seriously? 

Generational wealth?  What dream world do you live in?  It's your position that most white folk are inheriting 'generational wealth' from their parents? You've really got to be kidding me! 

[Chef Jim]

40 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Conjecture? No, race was a critical feature of law and economics at the time. There was virtually no black middle class BY LAW! 

 

65% White in 1960? So you are saying that the 8% of the black population made up the rest, or 45%? 

 

We do know that the war of drugs targeted the black and Latino communities, even though they used drugs at same rate as whites. 

 

Your position is that black poverty today is in no way related to the fact they were not able to generate generational wealth over the past several centuries? Seriously? 

 

At what point did (or do) the black citizens of this country start to build their generational wealth?  What's stopping them now?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

56 minutes ago, Doc said:

Does it teach that African nations invented black slavery?  That Native Americans owned slaves?  That prior to the Civil War there were about 4,000 free black people who owned over 12,000 black slaves?

I definitely never heard that last one in history class, in fact I’ve never heard it anywhere. Where was this?

[SoCal Deek]

33 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

At what point did (or do) the black citizens of this country start to build their generational wealth?  What's stopping them now?

I’m going to ask my elderly father when I’m supposed to be getting my generational wealth. It better not be his 20 year old Honda Accord or I’m going to be pissed.

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m going to ask my elderly father when I’m supposed to be getting my generational wealth. It better not be his 20 year old Honda Accord or I’m going to be pissed.

 

To be fair Deek though you may not feel you have benefited from generational wealth there are many white families who have.  More so than black families.  It hit me when I was watching the news a couple weeks ago and they did a "This date in history".  They mentioned that was the date that Tom Bradley was sworn into office as mayor of LA.  He was the grandson of a slave.  Having said that the time for using that as an excuse is growing shorter and shorter.  

Edited July 15, 2021 by Chef Jim

[Motorin']

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I definitely never heard that last one in history class, in fact I’ve never heard it anywhere. Where was this?

 

What dollar figure did the American economy reap from the unpaid wages of African American slavery? 

 

Bottom line dollar figure. 

 

 

On a somewhat related note, last month Germany offered to pay 1.2 billion in reparations to Namibia for genocide during German colonia rule. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/germany-colonial-era-genocide-reparations-offer-not-enough-namibia-vice-2021-06-04/

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

What dollar figure did the American economy reap from the unpaid wages of African American slavery? 

 

Bottom line dollar figure. 

 

 

On a somewhat related note, last month Germany offered to pay 1.2 billion in reparations to Namibia for genocide during German colonia rule. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/germany-colonial-era-genocide-reparations-offer-not-enough-namibia-vice-2021-06-04/

 

 

 

So how does reparations for African Americans look in your mind?

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

To be fair Deek though you may not feel you have benefited from generational wealth there are many white families who have.  More so than black families.  It hit me when I was watching the news a couple weeks ago and they did a "This date in history".  They mentioned that was the date that Tom Bradley was sworn into office as mayor of LA.  He was the grandson of a slave.  Having said that the time for using that as an excuse is growing shorter and shorter.  

 

I didn't have a chance to respond last night. What I wanted to say to you was that it's not about making excuses for anything. It's literally a 1st Amendment issue so fundamental to the future unity of our country. Without the right to petition the government for the redress of grievances none of the other rights granted in the Constitution mean much at all. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

To be fair Deek though you may not feel you have benefited from generational wealth there are many white families who have.  More so than black families.  It hit me when I was watching the news a couple weeks ago and they did a "This date in history".  They mentioned that was the date that Tom Bradley was sworn into office as mayor of LA.  He was the grandson of a slave.  Having said that the time for using that as an excuse is growing shorter and shorter.  

To be fair Chef this is a topic on SYSTEMIC setbacks. There’s nothing inherent in the ‘system’ that establishes generational wealth for anyone of any color. That inheritance comes from the savings, spending and planning habits of your parents and possibly your grandparents. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

What dollar figure did the American economy reap from the unpaid wages of African American slavery? 

 

Bottom line dollar figure. 

 

 

On a somewhat related note, last month Germany offered to pay 1.2 billion in reparations to Namibia for genocide during German colonia rule. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/germany-colonial-era-genocide-reparations-offer-not-enough-namibia-vice-2021-06-04/

 

 

Good question..  also, brits apparently also brought 300,000 white slaves to America during colonial times. So same question there I suppose. 
 

I’m sure with inflation it’s trillions. I’ve openly stated I’d write a check of my own money if we can have a social contract to be done with this conversation. And it would be greater than any money I got from anyone except my own employers. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

To be fair Chef this is a topic on SYSTEMIC setbacks. There’s nothing inherent in the ‘system’ that establishes generational wealth for anyone of any color. That inheritance comes from the savings, spending and planning habits of your parents and possibly your grandparents. 

 

Was there systemic setbacks at some point that black people had to deal with that whites did not?  It's not that the system gave us generational wealth.  It put blacks behind in that ability to establish generational wealth.  

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

What dollar figure did the American economy reap from the unpaid wages of African American slavery? 

 

Bottom line dollar figure. 

 

 

On a somewhat related note, last month Germany offered to pay 1.2 billion in reparations to Namibia for genocide during German colonia rule. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/germany-colonial-era-genocide-reparations-offer-not-enough-namibia-vice-2021-06-04/

 

 

And there it is! We’re finally getting around to it. What’s all of this about? It’s about MONEY! (Just like I’ve been saying on here since the CRT threads first surfaced.)

[Motorin']

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

To be fair Chef this is a topic on SYSTEMIC setbacks. There’s nothing inherent in the ‘system’ that establishes generational wealth for anyone of any color. That inheritance comes from the savings, spending and planning habits of your parents and possibly your grandparents. 

 

Except black Americans were excluded from wonderful low interest federally backed mortgage programs that gave birth to the American middle class. 

 

Working and middle class white Americans were able to accumulate over 1 Trillion dollars in equity from the programs that black people were excluded from. 

 

On top of that, working and middle class black Americans were prayed on by horribly unethical loan practices that were vicious in their ability to foreclose and take all equity. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Was there systemic setbacks at some point that black people had to deal with that whites did not?  It's not that the system gave us generational wealth.  It put blacks behind in that ability to establish generational wealth.  

Chef….I’m not an idiot. The point is that very very few people of any color inherit much of anything from their parents. Very few. 

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Good question..  also, brits apparently also brought 300,000 white slaves to America during colonial times. So same question there I suppose. 

 

No one anywhere can justify indentured servitude. But it wasn't illegal for white indentured servants to learn how to read. They had to work or buy their way out of servitude, and their children and grandchildren weren't born into slavery and with education outlawed.

[Tommy Callahan]

That's the goal.  Or something similar.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Chef….I’m not an idiot. The point is that very very few people of any color inherit much of anything from their parents. Very few. 

I tend to agree and suspect the average inheritance numbers are badly skewed by a small fraction of the super wealthy. But if inheritance is the source of inequity I’d be open to tax and redistribute that… the world could use less hunter Biden’s and Donnie trump jrs running around. 
 

Being born to rich parents certainly is an inequality. 

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Except black Americans were excluded from wonderful low interest federally backed mortgage programs that gave birth to the American middle class. 

 

Working and middle class white Americans were able to accumulate over 1 Trillion dollars in equity from the programs that black people were excluded from. 

 

On top of that, working and middle class black Americans were prayed on by horribly unethical loan practices were vicious. 

Ha! The Democrats just proposed spending $4.5 TRILLION in one single spending bill. Using your math there won’t be a single POC living in poverty by Christmas time. Problem solved.
 

[Frat-Train]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

No one anywhere can justify indentured servitude. But it wasn't illegal for white indentured servants to learn how to read. They had to work or buy their way out of servitude, and their children and grandchildren weren't born into slavery and with education outlawed.

It was quite illegal to do many things before we fought for independence from the British.  If history has taught us anything, it’s freedom is not freely given by those who possess power.  Every nation has taken part in slavery and racism/ genocide.  America not only fought to end it, but abolished it faster than any other nation in history.  So imagine if you can, the humor in burning, hating or turning from a flag that stands for overcoming oppression both foreign and domestic.  Do you know what CRT says about the US flag?  
 

 

I do.  

Edited July 15, 2021 by Frat-Train

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I tend to agree and suspect the average inheritance numbers are badly skewed by a small fraction of the super wealthy. But if inheritance is the source of inequity I’d be open to tax and redistribute that… the world could use less hunter Biden’s and Donnie trump jrs running around. 
 

Being born to rich parents certainly is an inequality. 

We already do that. It’s called the Estate Tax. Problem solved.

Next

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We already do that. It’s called the Estate Tax. Problem solved.

Next

It only generates like 40 billion dollars because it over $11 million joint estates or so and a lower rate.

 

Lower the thresholds and add minor appropriate exemptions. Everyone has to earn their own way. I’m good. 

[Chef Jim]

19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Chef….I’m not an idiot. The point is that very very few people of any color inherit much of anything from their parents. Very few. 

 

Seriously?  Maybe I should remind you what I do for a living.  I help people (mostly white) all the time who have inheritances from their family.  Your dad owns a beat up Honda.  Does he own a home?  Remember whites have been able to own homes here in the US for a few hundred years.  Blacks have not had that kind of history.  My point is that excuse should be and has been fading over time.  

15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We already do that. It’s called the Estate Tax. Problem solved.

Next

 

What are the current estate tax exclusions?  

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

It only generates like 40 billion dollars because it over $11 million joint estates or so and a lower rate.

 

Lower the thresholds and add minor appropriate exemptions. Everyone has to earn their own way. I’m good. 

 

I would rather see them eliminate the step up in basis.  That only affects people who sell what they inherit.  The estate tax taxes assets sold or not and often times those assets are VERY illiquid.  My fear is they will ***** with both which will be a mess.  (Sorry Irv) 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Seriously?  Maybe I should remind you what I do for a living.  I help people (mostly white) all the time who have inheritances from their family.  Your dad owns a beat up Honda.  Does he own a home?  Remember whites have been able to own homes here in the US for a few hundred years.  Blacks have not had that kind of history.  My point is that excuse should be and has been fading over time.  

 

What are the current estate tax exclusions?  

 

I would rather see them eliminate the step up in basis.  That only affects people who sell what they inherit.  The estate tax taxes assets sold or not and often times those assets are VERY illiquid.  My fear is they will ***** with both which will be a mess.  (Sorry Irv) 

Matter of factly that would make sense, but I guess since both parties are themselves or are in cahoots with the richest,  the super wealthy will codify loopholes making any attempted fix impotent. 

[SoCal Deek]

11 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Seriously?  Maybe I should remind you what I do for a living.  I help people (mostly white) all the time who have inheritances from their family.  Your dad owns a beat up Honda.  Does he own a home?  Remember whites have been able to own homes here in the US for a few hundred years.  Blacks have not had that kind of history.  My point is that excuse should be and has been fading over time.  

 

What are the current estate tax exclusions?  

 

I would rather see them eliminate the step up in basis.  That only affects people who sell what they inherit.  The estate tax taxes assets sold or not and often times those assets are VERY illiquid.  My fear is they will ***** with both which will be a mess.  (Sorry Irv) 

Chef...no need to remind me, you tell us all the time. This Board really needs to lighten up. 

With that said, if you want to promote even higher levels of redistribution than we currently have, you're free to promote it. Knock yourself out! But I'm also free to say "this has gone far enough".  When I 'invest' very close to half of everything I earn to the good of the collective, then I think I've provided more than my 'fair share'.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Chef...no need to remind me, you tell us all the time. This Board really needs to lighten up. 

With that said, if you want to promote even higher levels of redistribution than we currently have, you're free to promote it. Knock yourself out! But I'm also free to say "this has gone far enough".  When I 'invest' very close to half of everything I earn to the good of the collective, then I think I've provided more than my 'fair share'.

 

Then I am more qualified that you (whatever it is you do) to know how much wealth gets passed down from generation to generation aren't I? 

 

And lighten up?  I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are your comments not to be taken seriously?  I'm sorry I think I missed that.    

 

Please point out where I have ever advocated for more redistribution of wealth?  And if you think your tax dollars are being redistributed to those in need more so that to those in power and their friends you've got your head buried. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Then I am more qualified that you (whatever it is you do) to know how much wealth gets passed down from generation to generation aren't I? 

 

And lighten up?  I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are your comments not to be taken seriously?  I'm sorry I think I missed that.    

 

Please point out where I have ever advocated for more redistribution of wealth?  And if you think your tax dollars are being redistributed to those in need more so that to those in power and their friends you've got your head buried. 

This x10000.  Washington is full of life long rich politicians and cronies 

[SoCal Deek]

16 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Then I am more qualified that you (whatever it is you do) to know how much wealth gets passed down from generation to generation aren't I? 

 

And lighten up?  I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are your comments not to be taken seriously?  I'm sorry I think I missed that.    

 

Please point out where I have ever advocated for more redistribution of wealth?  And if you think your tax dollars are being redistributed to those in need more so that to those in power and their friends you've got your head buried. 

I never said anything about who they were being redistributed to.

I'm done now.  You clearly have this all under control. 😉

[Chef Jim]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I never said anything about who they were being redistributed to.

I'm done now.  You clearly have this all under control. 😉

 

I do have it under control.

 

Now on to the who's chili is better conversation.  

 

PS.  I'll win that one too.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I do have it under control.

 

Now on to the who's chili is better conversation.  

 

PS.  I'll win that one too.  

Beans or no beans?

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I definitely never heard that last one in history class, in fact I’ve never heard it anywhere. Where was this?

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/facts-about-slavery/ (midway down page)

 

 

I had never heard it anywhere either.