GunnerBill Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Peter King suggests in his column this morning that the vaccine issue is a particular concern in Buffalo. Yep. While the "one of two teams not at the threshold" story has not been confirmed anywhere that I have seen I suspect it is true and that is why McDermott is trying to buy time with the "nobody speak about it" policy while they try and "educate" or persuade in actual fact players on the merits of having the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 9:24 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: He wasn't the only one who came across badly - a number of the reporters seemed to really struggle with the format and being ready with several concise, well-phrased open ended questions - but he certainly set a low for appearance. Though we're not supposed to judge folks by that I guess. We can say this but let’s be honest, appearance matters until proven otherwise. I liked JW’s work and his posts here on TBD until recently. I started to change my opinion on him when I saw how quickly he got agitated with certain posters and his willingness to do battle from the keyboard. I thought he could rise above some of that stuff. Next, I saw him on the Zoom interviews and I was shocked. The poor verbal communication skills aside, his unkept appearance at work, and on camera, tells me “I don’t care”. Sorry , I’m old school and I’m sure some of my values sound dated to many here. He is a veteran journalist, I expected more. I give him a pass on his first attempt to talk about the vaccine, even though Poyer respectfully requested not to discuss it. His repeated bumbling and mumbling on the topic came off bad for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Rest assured that if a key player winds up missing games because of not getting vaccinated, it will become an issue on the Bills or any other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I'm interested in you second paragraph. I have read practically nothing (in part because the Bills have said practically nothing), but I've always assumed that the Bills didn't have a "reasonably large number of non-vaccinated players." I've assumed that the Bills are pretty close to whatever the numbers are that would give them relief from the COVID rules. I've assumed that because it isn't very logical to assume the Bills are far from the limit when thirty teams have gotten there easily. Statistically speaking, the Bills would be an extraordinary outlier if they were far from the limit. Where is the information that 30 of 32 teams have "gotten there easily" as far as vaccinated players? The information I have is that 30 of 32 teams have met the "90% vaccinated" standard for Tier 1 and Tier 2 staff (coaches, assistants, trainers, player engagement, maybe scouts if they want field and locker room access). The other 2 teams are at >85%. I have not seen anything yet about 1) what the NFL's standard for vaccination of players to loosen restrictions will be 2) how many teams have met it. The reason people believe that the Bills have a large number of non-vaccinated players is that a few weeks ago the Buffalo Fanatics crew, who have connections with a number of players, said that there were less than 10 vaccinated players on the Bills. 58 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: We can say this but let’s be honest, appearance matters until proven otherwise. I liked JW’s work and his posts here on TBD until recently. I started to change my opinion on him when I saw how quickly he got agitated with certain posters and his willingness to do battle from the keyboard. I thought he could rise above some of that stuff. Next, I saw him on the Zoom interviews and I was shocked. The poor verbal communication skills aside, his unkept appearance at work, and on camera, tells me “I don’t care”. Sorry , I’m old school and I’m sure some of my values sound dated to many here. He is a veteran journalist, I expected more. I give him a pass on his first attempt to talk about the vaccine, even though Poyer respectfully requested not to discuss it. His repeated bumbling and mumbling on the topic came off bad for him. Yeah, let's just say that I don't think quarantine and the Zoom format of interviews were kind to JW. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The reason people believe that the Bills have a large number of non-vaccinated players is that a few weeks ago the Buffalo Fanatics crew, who have connections with a number of players, said that there were less than 10 vaccinated players on the Bills. WOW! If that's accurate then the Bills have a problem. I find that hard to believe, but anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: WOW! If that's accurate then the Bills have a problem. I find that hard to believe, but anything is possible. I find that very hard to believe as well. Figured the percentages on the team would reflect the area at large (65-70%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 12 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yep. While the "one of two teams not at the threshold" story has not been confirmed anywhere that I have seen I suspect it is true and that is why McDermott is trying to buy time with the "nobody speak about it" policy while they try and "educate" or persuade in actual fact players on the merits of having the vaccine. Beane made the point several times that where players or the team overall are concerned for relaxed protocols, "we don't know what the thresholds are" "we don't know what the thresholds will be". This appears to confirm my contention that the 30 of 32 teams refers to the 90% vaccinated standard for Tier 1 and Tier 2 staff, and has nothing to do with how many players are vaccinated on different teams or a threshold for player vaccination in order to relax protocols, because the NFL has not yet released that information to the teams: 10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Where is the information that 30 of 32 teams have "gotten there easily" as far as vaccinated players? The information I have is that 30 of 32 teams have met the "90% vaccinated" standard for Tier 1 and Tier 2 staff (coaches, assistants, trainers, player engagement, maybe scouts if they want field and locker room access). The other 2 teams are at >85%. I have not seen anything yet about 1) what the NFL's standard for vaccination of players to loosen restrictions will be 2) how many teams have met it. The reason people believe that the Bills have a large number of non-vaccinated players is that a few weeks ago the Buffalo Fanatics crew, who have connections with a number of players, said that there were less than 10 vaccinated players on the Bills. I welcome links, quotes, etc correcting or refuting this. 4 hours ago, Shaw66 said: WOW! If that's accurate then the Bills have a problem. I find that hard to believe, but anything is possible. 2 hours ago, RiotAct said: I find that very hard to believe as well. Figured the percentages on the team would reflect the area at large (65-70%). I think the percentages on the team are more likely to match the areas where the players are from (S. Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Nebraska, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 12 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Peter King suggests in his column this morning that the vaccine issue is a particular concern in Buffalo. Is this what you're talking about? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/06/07/aaron-rodgers-packers-compromise-nfl-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw Quote • Where teams stand on the vaccine. This is an estimate, and only an estimate. But I’ve heard four to six teams have 60 or more players who have been vaccinated against COVID-19 on the 90-man roster, and about another 10 with at least 40 players vaccinated. To have a normal training camp, without limitations on in-person meetings and social gathering, teams will need approximately 85 percent (the presumed number the league will mandate) players vaccinated. That means 77 of 90 players will have had to be vaccinated by the end of July. As I reported last Monday, one team (as of May 28) had 65 players vaccinated, and there was confidence at the chance to get to 77 before late July. But some teams—Buffalo most notably—seem to be having difficulty getting players to believe the vaccine is smart for them. I was surprised to read what Giants coach Joe Judge said about his approach to vaccinations with his players Friday: “Everyone has a choice to make, players. So that’s their decision. I’m not getting involved in that. Let them deal directly with the medical professionals.” Now, if Judge means he’s leaving all COVID-related advice in the hands of his medical and training staff, that’s understandable. But at some point, if the Giants aren’t at 85 percent, the coach needs to get involved. It's unclear to me whether King has actual inside gouge on B'lo's "difficult conversations" or whether he's going by the pre-OTA twitting on Twitter by Rachel Bush/Cole Beasley etc. From King's previous column: Quote That’s where the NFL is on a few fronts. One last thing, regarding Covid. As I have mentioned this spring, the NFL is likely to push for a rule this year that allows teams with Tier 1 and 2 employees (those who touch players, like coaches, trainers, equipment staff, etc.) that have X percent vaccinated, and, separately, X percent of players vaccinated to be able to return to 2019 protocols. Freedom, in other words. It could be 85 percent for each group; I’ve heard it could be higher for non-players and then 85 percent for players. I asked one coach over the weekend about his team’s Covid situation. He was encouraging about it. He said 100 percent of his team’s Tier 1 and 2 staff had been vaccinated. And 65 of his 90 players have been vaccinated. That’s already 72 percent of the 90-man roster, and it’s only the end of May. He said what I’ve thought: Once players realize that being vaccinated will allow them the freedom to move around without masks, to be able to dine out with teammates and to not have to wake up early every morning to be tested, he thinks his team has a very good chance to be at 85 percent. This team would need 12 more players of the 25 currently not vaccinated to take the shot—and there’s seven weeks to get that done before training camp begins. Two coaches mentioned this to me in the last couple of weeks: One very big motivator for players could be if the league keeps the 2020 rules in place for non-vaccinated players—to have to stay in the team’s city during the bye week and get up early each day to be tested, as they were in 2020. That’s likely to be a factor for players to take the shot. If I were guessing, I would guess that team is probably the Seahawks. They had strong infection-control protocols in the league last year, with 0 players out with Covid all season (!!!!). Russ Wilson hosted a television special "Roll Up Your Sleeves" in April, so they have at least some player leadership that is positive about vaccination. But I don't know who Peter King's strongest contacts are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Is this what you're talking about? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/06/07/aaron-rodgers-packers-compromise-nfl-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw It's unclear to me whether King has actual inside gouge on B'lo's "difficult conversations" or whether he's going by the pre-OTA twitting on Twitter by Rachel Bush/Cole Beasley etc. From King's previous column: If I were guessing, I would guess that team is probably the Seahawks. They had strong infection-control protocols in the league last year, with 0 players out with Covid all season (!!!!). Russ Wilson hosted a television special "Roll Up Your Sleeves" in April, so they have at least some player leadership that is positive about vaccination. But I don't know who Peter King's strongest contacts are. I don't know who King's contacts are either, but I would be very surprised if it were based just on a couple of tweets. I suspect he has at least had conversations with someone on the inside - be it a player or staff member - who was willing, off the record, to confirm his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Beane made the point several times that where players or the team overall are concerned for relaxed protocols, "we don't know what the thresholds are" "we don't know what the thresholds will be". This appears to confirm my contention that the 30 of 32 teams refers to the 90% vaccinated standard for Tier 1 and Tier 2 staff, and has nothing to do with how many players are vaccinated on different teams or a threshold for player vaccination in order to relax protocols, because the NFL has not yet released that information to the teams. Indeed. I listened to Beane's presser on the way to work this morning. I think it is reasonable, though not exact, to assume the players threshold will be similar. Off the top of my head I can't think of a reason why the science would suggest that threshold should be lower for players, so unless the NFL and the NFLPA are literally just plucking arbitrary numbers out of thin air then one could reasonably expect the threshold to be similar, no? I completely get Beane's point and don't disagree with it at all but there will be a working assumption within the building. I can't believe a team like the Bills as thorough as they are will just sit on their hands until the NFL gives them a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Whollleeee lot of speculation and rumor going on here. I was on Twitter long enough to know Buffalo Fanatics is full of shcrap One the vaccines have FDA approval we will see if more people get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 On 6/6/2021 at 4:08 PM, GunnerBill said: During OTAs and mini camp to try and encourage take up before training camp where I suspect it is going to be much harder for them to shut up shop on the issue unless the NFL allows them to exceptionally restrict media access outside of the usual rules. Like I say, I have no issue at all with that as a strategy but the media are not obliged to just go along with it and indeed if they did they wouldn't be doing their jobs properly IMO. Indeed! It's going to be difficult to keep something in house that will be obvious to the media who attend practice. 14 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: Whollleeee lot of speculation and rumor going on here. I was on Twitter long enough to know Buffalo Fanatics is full of shcrap One the vaccines have FDA approval we will see if more people get them. Peter King >>>>>>> Twitter clowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) Would be interested to see if/how McD would answer this question, and if he would be as direct and forthcoming as Arians... On 6/7/2021 at 8:03 PM, RiotAct said: I find that very hard to believe as well. Figured the percentages on the team would reflect the area at large (65-70%). You have to look more at the specific demographic of the players. There has been a big struggle with convincing the mid-20s crowd to get vaccinated after they were told for the last year that they arent at major risk, and were forced back into schools as if there was no problem. Add in the fact that most NFL players are cocky and think they are completely indestructible, and live outside of normal consequences. edit: Add in the fact that most players get too much info from Twitter (per Ron Rivera), and that compounds the problem. I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if we were even at 50% of players. I'm guessing more like 30% at best. Edited June 10, 2021 by DrDawkinstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Would be interested to see if/how McD would answer this question, and if he would be as direct and forthcoming as Arians... Arians also said 85% is what we are shooting for. So while the league might not have formally confirmed the threshold it is not shrouded in mystery either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, GunnerBill said: Arians also said 85% is what we are shooting for. So while the league might not have formally confirmed the threshold it is not shrouded in mystery either. Absolutely. And to your point up-thread, we are going to know pretty quickly which teams have the problems and which dont, when a bunch of teams are having full practices and are back to normal while others are left at a disadvantage and not able to meet in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Arians also said 85% is what we are shooting for. So while the league might not have formally confirmed the threshold it is not shrouded in mystery either. Did he say that or did you infer it from her tweet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Continuing the "news around the league" theme... On 6/7/2021 at 8:03 PM, RiotAct said: I find that very hard to believe as well. Figured the percentages on the team would reflect the area at large (65-70%). On 6/7/2021 at 10:59 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think the percentages on the team are more likely to match the areas where the players are from (S. Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Nebraska, etc.) Looks like WFT is still under 50%, and that's probably the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Says the guy who missed games with mono... This is the unfortunate attitude I expect from players... "I don’t see me treating Covid until I actually get Covid".. Brilliant... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: You have to get a tetanus shot to get into college, I don't see why they can't require a COVID shot to play in the NFL. NFLPA. That is the only reason why they cant. There is nothing legally from stopping them. Only the potential labor strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Says the guy who missed games with mono... This is the unfortunate attitude I expect from players... "I don’t see me treating Covid until I actually get Covid".. Brilliant... oh my... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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