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RD 2, Pick 29 (61): Boogie Basham, DE (Wake Forest)


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Posted (edited)

I said this last night and I'll just repeat it:

Everyone says they love Beane, Beane is a wizard, big baller beane, and all that stuff.....until he doesn't draft the way they want him to draft.

He TOLD us he drafts best player available. He TOLD us he drafts with the future in mind. He TOLD us he used free agency to fill "needs" so that he can just take BPA. And everyone cheered and said "yes! We love it! Beane is the man!". Then the draft started and he passed on players at "need" positions to take BPA and think about the future, and half of Bills Mafia got the pitchforks.

You don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players at less "needed" positions in the process. You ESPECIALLY don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players when you already have a really good roster. And most bizarrely of all -- fixing the pass rush IS a huge need. Arguably the BIGGEST need! So anybody being upset that he addressed it aggressively in this draft is confusing to me. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Edited by Logic
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28 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Interesting. Where did you hear that out of curiosity?

 

 

Beane's press conference last night.   The video is on the Bills website.   I was surprised that he was that frank about it.  He was trading out of the pick, and he sounded excited to be able to do it.   But he would trade if Basham was there.  

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2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

It’s almost the only thing that makes sense, almost like what he suggested in picking Fromm last year, just couldn’t pass it up.

 

Is it possible they Rousseau plays one end and  basham plays the other? 

Eventually. I think you may even see Rousseau/Boogie/Oliver/Hughes in obvious passing situations but long term I think you will see Boogie starting at that RDE spot. Rousseau is probably the starter at LDE week 1. Obviously Epenesa will be another rotational piece as well, but in the end I think Boogie will beat him out as the starter. Boogie is way more versatile and way more gifted.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Beane's press conference last night.   The video is on the Bills website.   I was surprised that he was that frank about it.  He was trading out of the pick, and he sounded excited to be able to do it.   But he would trade if Basham was there.  

Listening to the presser I feel like he sees basham as an immediate contributor in the rotation  (he’s a 4 year high producer) whereas Rousseau is more of that project type who will play on obvious pass rushing situations this year and then ease him in more next year . I don’t see how Addison survives this draft. I think basham is his immediate replacement. 

Edited by YoloinOhio
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8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

It’s almost the only thing that makes sense, almost like what he suggested in picking Fromm last year, just couldn’t pass it up.

 

Is it possible they Rousseau plays one end and  basham plays the other? 

 

Hughes and Addison are a combined 67 years old. 

 

Basham's ceiling is Cam Jordan, and Rousseau's is Jason Taylor. 

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8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Remember that this guy is in the 270s...

 

Greg Cosell speaking with Chris Brown tonight after our pick said scouts believed if he bulks up to 280+ believe he could swing inside...

 

Personally, I'm thinking of the Epenesa body transformation last offseason ...

 

Could Boogie be a long-term DT inside?

 

Don't think so...

 

I do think they are going to be much more flexible about who is inside and who is outside, especially on obvious passing downs. B-)

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1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Listening to the presser I feel like he sees basham as an immediate contributor in the rotation  (he’s a 4 year high producer) whereas Rousseau is more of that project type who will play on obvious pass rushing situations this year and then ease him in more next year . I don’t see how Addison survives this draft. I think basham is his immediate replacement. 

 

In the call with Groot Beane asked him, " you ever heard of Dan Morgan? You're going to get to know him. " 

 

I bet Beane trades Daryl Johnson by the end of camp for a 4th or 5th next year and we see Groot chasing down kick offs and punt returns.

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

I said this last night and I'll just repeat it:

Everyone says they love Beane, Beane is a wizard, big baller beane, and all that stuff.....until he doesn't draft the way they want him to draft.

He TOLD us he drafts best player available. He TOLD us he drafts with the future in mind. He TOLD us he used free agency to fill "needs" so that he can just take BPA. And everyone cheered and said "yes! We love it! Beane is the man!". Then the draft started and he passed on players at "need" positions to take BPA and think about the future, and half of Bills Mafia got the pitchforks.

You don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players at less "needed" positions in the process. You ESPECIALLY don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players when you already have a really good roster. And most bizarrely of all -- fixing the pass rush IS a huge need. Arguably the BIGGEST need! So anybody being upset that he addressed it aggressively in this draft is confusing to me. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

This was like an Ozzie Newsome draft. 

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2 minutes ago, Logic said:

I said this last night and I'll just repeat it:

Everyone says they love Beane, Beane is a wizard, big baller beane, and all that stuff.....until he doesn't draft the way they want him to draft.

He TOLD us he drafts best player available. He TOLD us he drafts with the future in mind. He TOLD us he used free agency to fill "needs" so that he can just take BPA. And everyone cheered and said "yes! We love it! Beane is the man!". Then the draft started and he passed on players at "need" positions to take BPA and think about the future, and half of Bills Mafia got the pitchforks.

You don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players at less "needed" positions in the process. You ESPECIALLY don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players when you already have a really good roster. And most bizarrely of all -- fixing the pass rush IS a huge need. Arguably the BIGGEST need! So anybody being upset that he addressed it aggressively in this draft is confusing to me. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I've said this before.  It's just a theory I have.   

 

The objective in building a football team is to have the best talent you can have.  To make it truly objective, what I'd like to be able to do is put a numeric value on how good each player on the team is, add them up, and the team with the highest number has the best talent.   Now, you can't do that, because rating talent is too subjective.  I don't even know what RAS stands for, but I see a lot of people here referencing that measure.  But you don't rate QBs primarily on RAS; they need a different scale.   So as a practical matter, what I'd like to do is impossible, but that's what a GM would like to be able to.  

 

Beane essentially subscribes to that theory.  He wants to fill his team with the best talent possible; he wants guys with the highest possible rating on my theoretical rating system, and he doesn't care if that means that he has three offensive tackles on his team who are all at the top of the scale.   He's going BPA in the early rounds, because whoever they are and whatever position they play, there's no substitute for talent.   He also understands that once he acquires talent, he can use the talent in multiple ways - either play it or trade it.  Heck, even if he just loses it in free agency, he gets a compensatory pick.  

 

Beane knows that the more talent he puts on the roster, at whatever position, the more McDermott has to work with.   You can be sure that Beane and McDermott talked yesterday, and Beane asked McDermott if he'd mind adding Basham to the roster.  McDermott said something like, "are you kidding?  Give me the best football players you can, and I'll figure out what to do with them."  

 

You're right, some fans go nuts when Beane does things like this.  Last year it was Fromm.   How could they possibly waste a pick on Fromm?  Because, as far as Beane was concerned, he was by far the best player available.   

 

McBeane have the team set up the way they said they would set it up.   They have talent everywhere, and they create competition.   They didn't have to chase a corner back in the draft because whether the fans like it or not, Wallace is a solid #2, Jackson looks like good competition, and there still are more picks and free agents to acquire.   They didn't need to chase an offensive lineman.  They didn't need even to chase an edge, but when one fell to them they took him.  They certainly didn't need to chase a second one, but when one fell to them, they took him.  I'd love a one-tech guy, and McD would be happy if one showed up on his roster.  However, McD will coach the players he has, and if it's going to be Star and Phillips and some undersized, talented guys, well, okay.  

 

Beane says it over and over.  He fills hole in free agency, be builds talent in the draft.  And you know what?   I'm happy with his drafts every year, because when he's done he's always added a list of talented football players.   

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13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Listening to the presser I feel like he sees basham as an immediate contributor in the rotation  (he’s a 4 year high producer) whereas Rousseau is more of that project type who will play on obvious pass rushing situations this year and then ease him in more next year . I don’t see how Addison survives this draft. I think basham is his immediate replacement. 

I agree about Basham; you can see in the film that he plays the game at a fundamentally high level.   Rousseau is Edmunds on the defensive line; "kid, we're going to put you out there, and if you can learn to do all the things you need to learn, you're going to the Hall of Fame."  

 

Yes, Addison would look like he's at risk.  And/or Daryl Johnson.  The problem is that the Bills have to many edge players and not enough, or good enough, one-tech players.   Star's at the end of his run, probably, and Phillips improved last season but isn't there.  Is Butler part of that answer? And none of the edge players, plus Oliver, can hold up playing the one tech.   Apparently, on passing downs, the Bills are thinking some of this talent will move inside and the one-tech boys will take a seat; is it possible to expand the number of plays where you can afford to sacrifice the bulk for small and quick?

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28 minutes ago, Logic said:

I said this last night and I'll just repeat it:

Everyone says they love Beane, Beane is a wizard, big baller beane, and all that stuff.....until he doesn't draft the way they want him to draft.

He TOLD us he drafts best player available. He TOLD us he drafts with the future in mind. He TOLD us he used free agency to fill "needs" so that he can just take BPA. And everyone cheered and said "yes! We love it! Beane is the man!". Then the draft started and he passed on players at "need" positions to take BPA and think about the future, and half of Bills Mafia got the pitchforks.

You don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players at less "needed" positions in the process. You ESPECIALLY don't reach for need in the draft and skip better players when you already have a really good roster. And most bizarrely of all -- fixing the pass rush IS a huge need. Arguably the BIGGEST need! So anybody being upset that he addressed it aggressively in this draft is confusing to me. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I think that fans, I’ve noticed in this board in particular, get locked into certain players they like based on what they know about them, which is generally a fraction of what the team knows, and when they don’t get them they are disappointed. There are so many factors that go into these picks and it can lead to fans not having the whole picture and then feeling like things don’t make sense. 

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3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

One of my favorite gifs

 

Well done!

Addison is certainly gone, I still think Jerry may stick around for a year or 2 on a cheaper deal with a voidable cut year on the back side. 

I agree about Hughes, if he's still effective, I'm sure they'd prefer to keep him.

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6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think that fans, I’ve noticed in this board in particular, get locked into certain players they like based on what they know about them, which is generally a fraction of what the team knows, and when they don’t get them they are disappointed. There are so many factors that go into these picks and it can lead to fans not having the whole picture and then feeling like things don’t make sense. 

Yes, and they also lock into beliefs about certain players on the team, like Levi Wallace.  For two years or more, the fan drumbeat is that the Bills have to replace Wallace.   Well, McBeane keep bringing in players - is Richard Sherman next? - and Wallace is still out there.  We don't hear McDermott screaming for help at corner.   

 

As I've said, for McBeane, it's about the sum total of the talent on the roster, not about any one position.   You weaken the team if you take less than the best talent because you'd like to upgrade a position. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree about Basham; you can see in the film that he plays the game at a fundamentally high level.   Rousseau is Edmunds on the defensive line; "kid, we're going to put you out there, and if you can learn to do all the things you need to learn, you're going to the Hall of Fame."  

 

Yes, Addison would look like he's at risk.  And/or Daryl Johnson.  The problem is that the Bills have to many edge players and not enough, or good enough, one-tech players.   Star's at the end of his run, probably, and Phillips improved last season but isn't there.  Is Butler part of that answer? And none of the edge players, plus Oliver, can hold up playing the one tech.   Apparently, on passing downs, the Bills are thinking some of this talent will move inside and the one-tech boys will take a seat; is it possible to expand the number of plays where you can afford to sacrifice the bulk for small and quick?


We should be able to get a good 1 Tech today, if we want one.  
 

Shelvin, Slaton and Brown are all still available.  
 

If we’re going with position fluidity on the DL, I wouldn’t mind taking one of them and having two run stuffers on the roster - given the other tackles not potentially cut are Star/Oliver/Butler and then 5-6 Inside/Outside DE’s.  
 

On passing downs, we may legitimately start seeing 4 DE’s line up to rush the passer.  
 

Edited by SCBills
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18 minutes ago, SCBills said:


We should be able to get a good 1 Tech today, if we want one.  
 

Shelvin, Slaton and Brown are all still available.  
 

If we’re going with position fluidity on the DL, I wouldn’t mind taking one of them and having two run stuffers on the roster - given the other tackles not potentially cut are Star/Oliver/Butler and then 5-6 Inside/Outside DE’s.  
 

On passing downs, we may legitimately start seeing 4 DE’s line up to rush the passer.  
 

Thanks for this.  I really don't know the college talent, and if the Bills could get a 1 tech today, I'd be thrilled.  It may be a guy who takes a year on the practice squad, if that's what it takes.  There were times when the Bills just seemed to get overpowered, and there's no substitute for bulk.   

 

Star is one of those guys the fans love to hate, but his absence last season really hurt. 

1 minute ago, cwater10 said:

Imagine there's no veterans... (2022)

It's easy if you try...

Thanks, John. 

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59 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Eventually. I think you may even see Rousseau/Boogie/Oliver/Hughes in obvious passing situations but long term I think you will see Boogie starting at that RDE spot. Rousseau is probably the starter at LDE week 1. Obviously Epenesa will be another rotational piece as well, but in the end I think Boogie will beat him out as the starter. Boogie is way more versatile and way more gifted.

Just from watching film of Basham, he appears to be all over the place running down plays and he produces turnovers...which is a good thing!

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16 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

You and Macho Man are NOT on the same plane. 

 

 

Macho Man Deal With It GIF

 

That guy was always a trip! Never understood a word that he said! different plain alright!

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Would like to see Basham drop 10-15 pounds to get even quicker off the edge (I don't think we need him inside with our current depth chart even though he has that versatility), he's explosive and has a great get off as it is. 

 

Also, I really like the fact that Rousseau, Basham, and Brown are all coming in together and will be competing/facing off against each other and making each other stronger. Just need to get a 1 Tech with upside on Day 3 and I'll feel really good about our defensive front. 

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3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I like this pick better than the Rousseau pick...

I like the Rousseau pick better now that they added this Kid. Different types of beasts.

Complimentary perhaps ?

3 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

At first I was like WHAT?? Double Dip... But now I am thinking we have a hard time covering Kelce. Maybe instead of trying to cover him, try and force KC to keep him on the line to help block? Same with the bucs and possibly 2 TE sets from NE? Still think we need a DT1 somewhere in this draft... Now I am thinking,  this could be quite a fun Dline to watch...🤗. Plus with the extra game this year, I wonder if our D just got worn down at the end of last season...

Good post :)

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