Combating imaginary racism with actual racism??

[B-Man]

 

 

Racists come in ALL colors.

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

https://twitter.com/MaryAnnAhernNBC/status/1394766979450425360

 

I am not sure if it copied properly but it is a tweet from a NBC news person stating Chicago mayor only does interviews with black people.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Buffalo Timmy

[Niagara Bill]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:11 AM, Tiberius said:

Not like black people in America have. The economic injustices of the past still weigh heavily on black Americans. They have been in the country the longest and have the highest poverty rates. People, like my grandfather, came to the country and were easily able to jump ahead of black people and make it. Attempting to fix a wrong is not racism. 

I have to strongly say your point of view is tilted. 

You will never never never bring a country, or employer, to equality by speaking about what someone may have or did 50 years ago. You cannot expect me to work on my shortcomings and racial understanding by punishing me or my children. If you take this approach then status quo is more acceptable to me, thus nothing gets accomplished. Let me work on my shortcomings without punishment.

Maybe my father or grandfather called Italian immigrants ***** or *****.  That was wrong. But you cannot punish my children for that. Similarly I gave a lot to learn about systemic discrimination and my role, but creating laws that punish my children will not help.

Affirmative Action laws helped some but I think hurt the movement in the end.

Proof of that...40 yrs later it is still an issue. 

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I have to strongly say your point of view is tilted. 

You will never never never bring a country, or employer, to equality by speaking about what someone may have or did 50 years ago. You cannot expect me to work on my shortcomings and racial understanding by punishing me or my children. If you take this approach then status quo is more acceptable to me, thus nothing gets accomplished. Let me work on my shortcomings without punishment.

Maybe my father or grandfather called Italian immigrants ***** or *****.  That was wrong. But you cannot punish my children for that. Similarly I gave a lot to learn about systemic discrimination and my role, but creating laws that punish my children will not help.

Affirmative Action laws helped some but I think hurt the movement in the end.

Proof of that...40 yrs later it is still an issue. 

I don't think we can ignore the historic oppression that has set black people into poverty. That happened. Italian immigrants did not endure the hundreds of years of oppression in this country. They came, were allowed to get jobs, run businesses, get elected to office, serve as cops, etc. 

 

Black people, not so much 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

I don't think we can ignore the historic oppression that has set black people into poverty. That happened. Italian immigrants did not endure the hundreds of years of oppression in this country. They came, were allowed to get jobs, run businesses, get elected to office, serve as cops, etc. 

 

Black people, not so much 

Your statement is generally correct but your solution is detrimental and does not actually solve anything. The best way to help minorities is to help them do well in school but the worst schools with the most minorites in the country are in the most blue areas (Chicago,NYC, Baltimore,LA) and until they fix those cities the majority of minorities do not have much of a chance. In the schools near me the minorities compete well with all other groups, so it does not appear to be racial issue but a school issue.

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Your statement is generally correct but your solution is detrimental and does not actually solve anything. The best way to help minorities is to help them do well in school but the worst schools with the most minorites in the country are in the most blue areas (Chicago,NYC, Baltimore,LA) and until they fix those cities the majority of minorities do not have much of a chance. In the schools near me the minorities compete well with all other groups, so it does not appear to be racial issue but a school issue.

Oh no, the rural southern schools are the worst 

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I don't think we can ignore the historic oppression that has set black people into poverty. That happened. Italian immigrants did not endure the hundreds of years of oppression in this country. They came, were allowed to get jobs, run businesses, get elected to office, serve as cops, etc. 

 

Black people, not so much 

Your last comment is hurtful. In place of black put Kamala Harris's family,  Justice Thomas, and millions of others. Like whites have numerous backgrounds and cultures, bkack skinned humans do as well. Mandarin and Cantonese are different, Polish families gave a different culture than Sweds.

By the use of that term you alienate most of your audience who first thought is to say pee on you a??. 

The US population ( and Canadian) has to historically understand that some of the cultural problems in the community they helped create. But punishing me for my grandfather will not help.

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh no, the rural southern schools are the worst 

Why? Money? Racism?

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Your last comment is hurtful. In place of black put Kamala Harris's family,  Justice Thomas, and millions of others. Like whites have numerous backgrounds and cultures, bkack skinned humans do as well. Mandarin and Cantonese are different, Polish families gave a different culture than Sweds.

By the use of that term you alienate most of your audience who first thought is to say pee on you a??. 

The US population ( and Canadian) has to historically understand that some of the cultural problems in the community they helped create. But punishing me for my grandfather will not help.

Why? Money? Racism?

Most black people were simply shut off from the good things in American society. Why try to deny that? You seem angry at the truth. 

 

And why? Culture, mostly 

[Boatdrinks]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Your statement is generally correct but your solution is detrimental and does not actually solve anything. The best way to help minorities is to help them do well in school but the worst schools with the most minorites in the country are in the most blue areas (Chicago,NYC, Baltimore,LA) and until they fix those cities the majority of minorities do not have much of a chance. In the schools near me the minorities compete well with all other groups, so it does not appear to be racial issue but a school issue.

Tibs doesn’t want to let go of the past. However, it’s time to move on from these excuses.  Slavery ended over 150 years ago. It’s now going on 60 years since major civil rights legislation. While educational achievement is the key to success, the problem isn’t racial or even one of schools. It’s a problem of culture. The quality of the family is the primary predictor of success in school. Until cultural changes are made from within that stress family structure and a home emphasis on school, rather than deriding these things as “ white supremacist” or acting “ white” this success will not be achieved. Simple as that. This most important conversation is the one that is continually avoided. 

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Tibs doesn’t want to let go of the past. However, it’s time to move on from these excuses.  Slavery ended over 150 years ago. It’s now going on 60 years since major civil rights legislation. While educational achievement is the key to success, the problem isn’t racial or even one of schools. It’s a problem of culture. The quality of the family is the primary predictor of success in school. Until cultural changes are made from within that stress family structure and a home emphasis on school, rather than deriding these things as “ white supremacist” or acting “ white” this success will not be achieved. Simple as that. This most important conversation is the one that is continually avoided. 

Lack of financial resources are even bigger than cultural factors. Black people were never able to build up family wealth because of racism and the poverty that exists today in black communities is. aDIRECT RESULT of racism in the past. 

[Orlando Tim]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Lack of financial resources are even bigger than cultural factors. Black people were never able to build up family wealth because of racism and the poverty that exists today in black communities is. aDIRECT RESULT of racism in the past. 

That is stupid and has been disproven a hundred ways in America by the fact we can easily show the actions that keep you out of poverty. If this was true then the Africans that come directly from Africa would not be 30% richer than native borns unless you are gonna argue that those coming from Africa are richer to start. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blackenterprise.com/black-immigrants-in-u-s-earning-30-more-than-u-s-born-blacks/amp/

 

As I said your actions directly harm minorities greatly. No can fix the injustice their ancestors faced.

[Chef Jim]

On 5/16/2021 at 7:33 PM, B-Man said:

 

 

 

I'm not even sure why we track these stats.   Until we look at us all as Americans vs categorizing us based on our color/ethnicity this us vs them will never change. 

[Tiberius]

Just now, Buffalo Timmy said:

That is stupid and has been disproven a hundred ways in America by the fact we can easily show the actions that keep you out of poverty. If this was true then the Africans that come directly from Africa would not be 30% richer than native borns unless you are gonna argue that those coming from Africa are richer to start. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blackenterprise.com/black-immigrants-in-u-s-earning-30-more-than-u-s-born-blacks/amp/

 

As I said your actions directly harm minorities greatly. No can fix the injustice their ancestors faced.

Nope, it takes money to make money

 

There is also the fact that culture has been seriously affected by racism. Not being able to have a good job or access to education does affect culture. So the culture you are talking about was actually formed in reaction to serious, oppressive racism 

 

You said something about stupid? 

[Chef Jim]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 Black people were never able to build up family wealth

 

This is a very telling combination of words.

 

Freudian slip by chance? 

[B-Man]

 

[Unforgiven]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:21 PM, B-Man said:

 

 

There was a movie made in 1968 called “Witchfinder General” starring Vincent Price, In the United States, it was retitled “The Conqueror Worm.”

 

The film is the account of the murderous witch-hunting exploits of Matthew Hopkins (Price), a lawyer who claimed to have been appointed as a "Witch Finder General" by Parliament during the English Civil War to root out sorcery and witchcraft.

 

He got paid for every “devil-worshiper” he found.

 

Sounds like what the FBI/SPLC/MSM are trying to accomplish be hunting for “White Supremacists.”

 

 

 

  It's not really Trump that the leftards are targeting, what they are furious about the most is Trump voters.

Especially white Trump voters, that's who their real target is. Book it...coming soon....

[Tiberius]

18 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Imagine that! 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Nope, it takes money to make money

 

There is also the fact that culture has been seriously affected by racism. Not being able to have a good job or access to education does affect culture. So the culture you are talking about was actually formed in reaction to serious, oppressive racism 

 

You said something about stupid? 

It takes hard work to make money- I have several minority friends who grew up dirt poor but make more than me now. Your point is invalid against the immigrants also. It is culture.

[JaCrispy]

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Nope, it takes money to make money

 

There is also the fact that culture has been seriously affected by racism. Not being able to have a good job or access to education does affect culture. So the culture you are talking about was actually formed in reaction to serious, oppressive racism 

 

You said something about stupid? 

Not really true. Most people in America who have really significant money started with almost no money at all.  I had literally NONE when I started out in my adult life.  So, if 'it takes money to make money' then where did mine come from?   Is this akin to the Big Bang Theory?  Everyone knows the formula for success, but very few have the dedication to stick with it.

[Tiberius]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

It takes hard work to make money- I have several minority friends who grew up dirt poor but make more than me now. Your point is invalid against the immigrants also. It is culture.

I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? 

 

You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? 

 

May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. 

 

You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. 

[JaCrispy]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? 

 

You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? 

 

May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. 

 

You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. 

No one is saying it had no bearing on the present, but that was 60 years ago my friend...people from all over the world come here with nothing and our system allows them to achieve greater...look at Oprah...grew up during Jim Crow- now one of the wealthiest women in the world...only in America! 👍

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

No one is saying it had no bearing on the present, but that was 60 years ago my friend...people from all over the world come here with nothing and our system allows them to achieve greater...look at Oprah...grew up during Jim Crow- now one of the wealthiest women in the world...only in America! 👍

Oh absolutely, some people rise up. Most, the vast majority, do not. Heck, why use immigrants? Look at what blacks have done since they finally had the knee taken off their necks. Ten percent earn over $100,000 now. But to expect most of them to is unrealistic.  Look at all the poor whites who never even faced racist oppression. Is their culture bad? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

  Look at all the poor whites who never even faced racist oppression. Is their culture bad? 

YES!!!!  Most common indicators of crime and poverty is # of parents in household. 
 

if you grow up in a culture, irrespective of your skin pigment, that doesn’t value education, doesn’t have family unit values of some kind... you’re likely to lose in life. It’s a fact that not a single of the race baiters are willing to address, because it disarms the power sought by polarization. 

[Chef Jim]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Nope, it takes money to make money

How much? 

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. 

More interesting racist like words.  Unless of course you grew up in the 40’s. 

[Niagara Bill]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Most black people were simply shut off from the good things in American society. Why try to deny that? You seem angry at the truth. 

 

And why? Culture, mostly 

Not angry Tibs, just want to see us move forward and blame does not help.

I have lived thru Affirmative Action BS. 

The issues are more cultural than color. 

Believe me I would love to wake up with Beyonce's head on my shoulder than ,Melissa McCarthy and that has nothing to do with color.

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Oh absolutely, some people rise up. Most, the vast majority, do not. Heck, why use immigrants? Look at what blacks have done since they finally had the knee taken off their necks. Ten percent earn over $100,000 now. But to expect most of them to is unrealistic.  Look at all the poor whites who never even faced racist oppression. Is their culture bad? 

Tibs.  People of all colors get up every day and make a decision about how they want to live their lives. Everyone does.  You can always look backward and say "I should be better off, but for this and that" everyone does to one extent of another and from time to time. Or you can say "today I'm going to make changes that end up in a better tomorrow for me and my family".  Every....single....day.  You study in school. You study after school.  You stop hanging out with the wrong crowd. You save your money, instead of spending it all.  You give up vices that are you keeping you down and holding you back. Every....single...day.  Success is an individual decision, no matter what color you are.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? 

 

You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? 

 

May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. 

 

You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. 

Your final comment is not similar to your initial statement. You initially said racism is main reason blacks are behind. Of course racism exists and it still holds back some people. It is bad that our country held back quality people and our country has benefited from allowing all of our people to flourish. 

[SoCal Deek]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Your final comment is not similar to your initial statement. You initially said racism is main reason blacks are behind. Of course racism exists and it still holds back some people. It is bad that our country held back quality people and our country has benefited from allowing all of our people to flourish. 

The fallacy is looking at people in groups. People neither succeed or fail as a group. Once you go down that rabbit hole you can never get out. And that’s right where Mr Tibs wants to lead you, if you’ll let him. 

[Niagara Bill]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? 

 

You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? 

 

May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. 

 

You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. 

Stop with the past bs and fix the future. If the Bills worried about how the Patsys kicked their butt in 2007 that does not help them in 2021.

[Tiberius]

10 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

Stop with the past bs and fix the future. If the Bills worried about how the Patsys kicked their butt in 2007 that does not help them in 2021.

Why should we just forget about history? You want to white wash history? 

 

You must be a Trump supporter with your wanting to toss the past down the Orwellian burn hole. 

12 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Your final comment is not similar to your initial statement. You initially said racism is main reason blacks are behind. Of course racism exists and it still holds back some people. It is bad that our country held back quality people and our country has benefited from allowing all of our people to flourish. 

But racism in the past has a direct impact on people's lives today. That's just a truth 

14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

YES!!!!  Most common indicators of crime and poverty is # of parents in household. 
 

if you grow up in a culture, irrespective of your skin pigment, that doesn’t value education, doesn’t have family unit values of some kind... you’re likely to lose in life. It’s a fact that not a single of the race baiters are willing to address, because it disarms the power sought by polarization. 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Why should we just forget about history? You want to white wash history? 

 

You must be a Trump supporter with your wanting to toss the past down the Orwellian burn hole. 

But racism in the past has a direct impact on people's lives today. That's just a truth 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

I think we all can agree that racism exists and is a problem.  The debate to me is really on the impact of such behavior.  And identifying the right and most impactful cause of the problem in order to apply some "fixes".  Because my conclusion is you can "fix" all the racism issues you want and it isn't going to materially change the outcome for most people you are intending to help.  That's pretty much it for me.  You fix the wrong thing and you still have the same problem. 

 

So if you disagree I guess the fundamental question is "do you really believe that racism is the number one factor holding people back in our society in 2021"? 

 

Do you believe that other factors have less impact?  Like education level, a stable family environment, a safe neighborhood, access to jobs and opportunity, drug and alcohol abuse, crime, avoiding "bad" social influences.  And other things.  

 

So...

If race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many whites living in poverty?

if race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many affluent minorities? 

If race is truly the key factor how can you explain how recent African immigrants are as a demographic much more successful than Americans of African descent?

if race is truly the key factor how can you explain how Asians as a group score much higher than Whites in standardized tests (which many claim favor whites) like SAT's and other exams?

 

Just to specify a few examples..

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

40 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

Data is out there if you choose to look. 

[Niagara Bill]

36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Why should we just forget about history? You want to white wash history? 

 

You must be a Trump supporter with your wanting to toss the past down the Orwellian burn hole. 

But racism in the past has a direct impact on people's lives today. That's just a truth 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

I did not suggest we forget history but it is harmful to the solution to keep throwing it in my face when people are trying to be more progressive. 

It is not necessary to punish me for my grandfathrrs actions.

The Christians churches financed the killing of native North Americans so do you hold the present priest/preacher accountable. 

Because I want to have real equality and solutions I am a trumper. You are sick man. You don't need to be a left wing progressive to want equality, peace and love. You are wearing your crown of thorns too tight.

btw! I think trump is the most despicable human being and politician imaginable. 

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

I think we all can agree that racism exists and is a problem.  The debate to me is really on the impact of such behavior.  And identifying the right and most impactful cause of the problem in order to apply some "fixes".  Because my conclusion is you can "fix" all the racism issues you want and it isn't going to materially change the outcome for most people you are intending to help.  That's pretty much it for me.  You fix the wrong thing and you still have the same problem. 

 

So if you disagree I guess the fundamental question is "do you really believe that racism is the number one factor holding people back in our society in 2021"? 

 

Do you believe that other factors have less impact?  Like education level, a stable family environment, a safe neighborhood, access to jobs and opportunity, drug and alcohol abuse, crime, avoiding "bad" social influences.  And other things.  

 

So...

If race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many whites living in poverty?

if race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many affluent minorities? 

If race is truly the key factor how can you explain how recent African immigrants are as a demographic much more successful than Americans of African descent?

if race is truly the key factor how can you explain how Asians as a group score much higher than Whites in standardized tests (which many claim favor whites) like SAT's and other exams?

 

Just to specify a few examples..

 

 

 

 

What is the "fix" you are talking about? 

1 minute ago, Niagara Bill said:

I did not suggest we forget history but it is harmful to the solution to keep throwing it in my face when people are trying to be more progressive. 

It is not necessary to punish me for my grandfathrrs actions.

The Christians churches financed the killing of native North Americans so do you hold the present priest/preacher accountable. 

Because I want to have real equality and solutions I am a trumper. You are sick man. You don't need to be a left wing progressive to want equality, peace and love. You are wearing your crown of thorns too tight.

btw! I think trump is the most despicable human being and politician imaginable. 

Punish you? Who is punishing you? What are you talking about? 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

I can only find one left wing group who admits the data is there. "The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents"

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

I can only find one left wing group who admits the data is there. "The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents"

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? 

I can only find one left wing group who admits the data is there. "The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents"

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/

[All_Pro_Bills]

49 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

What is the "fix" you are talking about? 

 

I expected you've been paying attention to events.   

 

If you want to end racism what would you propose?  Give me your top 5 initiatives and what impact each would have on ending racism.