What is the American Way of Life?

[oldmanfan]

The current what I will call political crisis seems to center around what people want to claim as the American Life.  The extremists on the right seem to claim that their America is being taken away, that for some reason what they consider the American way of life is being stripped from them.  And they want to take it back by whatever means they need to use.  On the other side you have the left extremists who want to claim to many are being denied their version of America, that the American Way of Life is being denied to minorities and such.

 

So what is America?  What is the American way of life?  Frankly for people like me, older, white, of good financial means, I don't see my America being taken away by any stretch of the imagination.  I have all my rights granted to me by the Constitution, they are not being affected at all.  I am happily married, and I know gay couples that are married and that has absolutely no influence on the state of my marriage.  I have no problem with all citizens of our country having the exact same rights, no more, no less, than the next guy regardless of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation.  Having all have the same rights to me is American - I am not having anything taken away by that.  I believe immigration has been great for our country historically,  and that legal immigration should be encouraged and illegal immigration be dealt with harshly.   I think most Americans agree with that, that somehow that does destroy the American way of life.  I think people should have the right to protest peacefully, and when they do so it does not somehow strip away my America.  I think when protestors get violent they should be charged, arrested, convicted, and go to jail.  

 

So when some say their America is being taken away, how?  Why?  We are a melting pot, we always have been (although sometimes with destructive consequences especially our treatment of native Americans).  How another person chooses to lead their life has nothing to do with somehow stealing anything from my living my American life.  

 

I don't get it.  Someone explain it to me.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

You’re not part of the conflict the political apparatus are trying to have. You pose moderate reasonable compromised pragmatic positions. Neither establishment  supports your views completely and for them America is a herd of sheep they need to manipulate to manifest their own power. 
 

[B-Man]

44 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

How another person chooses to lead their life has nothing to do with somehow stealing anything from my living my American life.  

 

I don't get it.  Someone explain it to me.

 

 

INDIVIDUAL freedom.

 

Everything else is window-dressing.

 

and all Americans are slowly but surely losing theirs.

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

38 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The current what I will call political crisis seems to center around what people want to claim as the American Life.  The extremists on the right seem to claim that their America is being taken away, that for some reason what they consider the American way of life is being stripped from them.  And they want to take it back by whatever means they need to use.  On the other side you have the left extremists who want to claim to many are being denied their version of America, that the American Way of Life is being denied to minorities and such.

 

So what is America?  What is the American way of life?  Frankly for people like me, older, white, of good financial means, I don't see my America being taken away by any stretch of the imagination.  I have all my rights granted to me by the Constitution, they are not being affected at all.  I am happily married, and I know gay couples that are married and that has absolutely no influence on the state of my marriage.  I have no problem with all citizens of our country having the exact same rights, no more, no less, than the next guy regardless of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation.  Having all have the same rights to me is American - I am not having anything taken away by that.  I believe immigration has been great for our country historically,  and that legal immigration should be encouraged and illegal immigration be dealt with harshly.   I think most Americans agree with that, that somehow that does destroy the American way of life.  I think people should have the right to protest peacefully, and when they do so it does not somehow strip away my America.  I think when protestors get violent they should be charged, arrested, convicted, and go to jail.  

 

So when some say their America is being taken away, how?  Why?  We are a melting pot, we always have been (although sometimes with destructive consequences especially our treatment of native Americans).  How another person chooses to lead their life has nothing to do with somehow stealing anything from my living my American life.  

 

I don't get it.  Someone explain it to me.

Interesting question.  

 

I don't feel as if the American way of life is in peril, and ultimately change is inevitable.  There are some very positive things that stem from these changes, and in some cases, the change impacts individuals negatively.  

 

Before proceeding here, what would you consider an example of an extremist on the right or left? I think most of us would agree that the people that stormed the Capitol were extremists, but what about the people that attended the rally and did not partake in violence, destruction or the breach?  I think most would assume that those protestors who rioted and burned federal facilities and small businesses are extremists, but those peacefully protesting are not?  

 

Certainly there are people that feel as you have described, but it's important to know what you view as an extremist as a starting point.  

[T master]

It sure ain't what it use to be !! 

[oldmanfan]

35 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

INDIVIDUAL freedom.

 

Everything else is window-dressing.

 

and all Americans are slowly but surely losing theirs.

 

 

 

No they aren’t.  Other than COVID which is a unique situation demanding public health measures, how are individual freedoms being taken away.  Mine aren’t, nor are they for anyone I know.

35 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Interesting question.  

 

I don't feel as if the American way of life is in peril, and ultimately change is inevitable.  There are some very positive things that stem from these changes, and in some cases, the change impacts individuals negatively.  

 

Before proceeding here, what would you consider an example of an extremist on the right or left? I think most of us would agree that the people that stormed the Capitol were extremists, but what about the people that attended the rally and did not partake in violence, destruction or the breach?  I think most would assume that those protestors who rioted and burned federal facilities and small businesses are extremists, but those peacefully protesting are not?  

 

Certainly there are people that feel as you have described, but it's important to know what you view as an extremist as a starting point.  

The ones rioting this summer and the ones attacking the Capitol would define extremists for me.  As would those who want to overturn our form of government 

Edited February 15, 2021 by oldmanfan

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

 

 

INDIVIDUAL freedom.

 

Everything else is window-dressing.

 

and all Americans are slowly but surely losing theirs.

 

 

 

What freedoms have you lost? 

1 hour ago, T master said:

It sure ain't what it use to be !! 

How? What’s changed? 

[JaCrispy]

I would say, with regards to recent events, many feminists would argue that transgender rights are hurting women’s rights...

 

For example, they are now allowing trans females (people born as biological males) to compete in girl’s scholastic sports...this has had a negative impact on girls trying to get scholarships, because the trans females are always winning by large margins, and destroying the female record books...

If these trends are allowed to continue, you can basically say goodbye to women’s sports...that was the whole reason male and female sports were segregated in the first place- to give woman a more fair opportunity...now it seems like we are regressing, as biological males are being allowed to compete with them...

 

A good example of this was a case in Connecticut last year...I believe it went to court...

Edited February 15, 2021 by JaCrispy

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

INDIVIDUAL freedom.

 

Everything else is window-dressing.

 

and all Americans are slowly but surely losing theirs.

Respectfully, you might as well:

Edited February 15, 2021 by I am the egg man

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Not criticizing, but you might as well:

I am 65 years old.  I have not lost any individual freedom, with the exception of the quarantine at the beginning of the COVID epidemic.  All my rights and freedoms I have I have had my entire adult life.  
 

Rather than some pithy picture, engage in the topic at hand.  What exactly has people so worked up that they feel “their” America is being lost, “their” freedoms are being taken away?   What freedoms do you not have that you had 5-10 years ago?  

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I would say, with regards to recent events, many feminists would argue that transgender rights are hurting women’s rights...

 

For example, they are now allowing trans females (people born as biological males) to compete in girl’s scholastic sports...this has had a negative impact on girls trying to get scholarships, because the trans females are always winning by large margins, and destroying the female record books...

If these trends are allowed to continue, you can basically say goodbye to women’s sports...that was the whole reason male and female sports were segregated in the first place- to give woman a more fair opportunity...now it seems like we are regressing, as biological males are being allowed to compete with them...

 

A good example of this was a case in Connecticut last year...I believe it went to court...

 

Right agree with this.  Would feel really sad if girl sports went goodbye.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The current what I will call political crisis seems to center around what people want to claim as the American Life.  The extremists on the right seem to claim that their America is being taken away, that for some reason what they consider the American way of life is being stripped from them.  And they want to take it back by whatever means they need to use.  On the other side you have the left extremists who want to claim to many are being denied their version of America, that the American Way of Life is being denied to minorities and such.

 

So what is America?  What is the American way of life?  Frankly for people like me, older, white, of good financial means, I don't see my America being taken away by any stretch of the imagination.  I have all my rights granted to me by the Constitution, they are not being affected at all.  I am happily married, and I know gay couples that are married and that has absolutely no influence on the state of my marriage.  I have no problem with all citizens of our country having the exact same rights, no more, no less, than the next guy regardless of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation.  Having all have the same rights to me is American - I am not having anything taken away by that.  I believe immigration has been great for our country historically,  and that legal immigration should be encouraged and illegal immigration be dealt with harshly.   I think most Americans agree with that, that somehow that does destroy the American way of life.  I think people should have the right to protest peacefully, and when they do so it does not somehow strip away my America.  I think when protestors get violent they should be charged, arrested, convicted, and go to jail.  

 

So when some say their America is being taken away, how?  Why?  We are a melting pot, we always have been (although sometimes with destructive consequences especially our treatment of native Americans).  How another person chooses to lead their life has nothing to do with somehow stealing anything from my living my American life.  

 

I don't get it.  Someone explain it to me.

I'm in a similar position.  For context I live in an upper middle class single family home neighborhood.  Most of the residents are either professionals, small business owners, or mid-level managers in one of the many corporations dotting the region.  Most have advanced degrees, Masters and PhD's.  The demographics of the area are diverse, white, black, Asian (Chinese & Indian mostly), Hispanics.  Same for my work environment.  My natural instincts now are to not categorize or label anyone in this manner.  With experience you learn everyone is looking for the same thing.  A decent opportunity and a good life for themselves and their families and to see their kids do well or better than they are.  My grandparents were immigrants to this country.  My parents were working class people that saved and sacrificed to provide their kids a better life.  We grew up in a working class environment and my lifelong values and character were molding by this environment.  Its impossible for me to comprehend how much different it is growing up surrounded by relative affluence.  The kids think my stories about growing up are quaint but don't really understand the realities of hardship.  

 

People living in my area are completely insulated from the civil and social stiff experienced and witnessed by others on the ground.  Most I expect lean to the conservative side of things.  In the Summer there was a demonstration by local school aged kids protesting against injustice and inequality.  it was very orderly and polite as I would expect.  While I supported their efforts I wondered how they could even conceptualize of injustice and inequality.  Most are truly children of privilege.  But that privilege is derived from wealth and income and not race.  I expect few if any have experienced any of those situations or know what it means to be poor or want for things (growing up I came to know these things).  I laughed to myself as I thought it likely the biggest problem in life they've faced is something like a weak WiFi signal. 

 

In my view our social issues are not about race so much as they are about income and education.  Poor people just don't get treated very well in this country or maybe anywhere no matter their skin color.  The cops in my area are as unlikely to hassle affluent blacks as the are to hassle affluent whites.  

 

I think the American way of life is exemplified by you work hard and see your kids do better than you.  You pull your weight and expect the same of others.  I think one of the problems today is there is less and less opportunity to do that given how the economy has changed over the past 30 years.  Even college graduates have less opportunity and lower expectations of income.  There are a couple big  demographics that don't see this way of life as possible. 

 

Most "blue collar" jobs have disappeared in manufacturing & the supporting industries and businesses decimating a lot of small towns and cities in the process.  These people see little to be hopeful for.  The majority of them were Trump supporters.  They are not inherently bad people but rather they have lost faith in either of the major political parties to do anything for them.  After all, both presided over the elimination of their livelihoods.  Coastal liberals don't understand them.  But coastal liberals have been beneficiaries of globalization, financialization, and the information economy.  The majority are poor whites living near or below the "poverty level".  For these people the better life is a fantasy.  

 

The other big disadvantaged group is the inner city poor.  There have been programs and actions for 50+ years to end inner city poverty.  Most of them administered by politicians claiming to be supportive of these citizens.  And to this point without a lot of success.  The problem with these programs is they create government dependents rather than independent people.  I believe at their core people generally don't want handouts but rather a helping hand.  But the current craze is more handouts.  Guaranteed incomes and other things.  Free stuff that requires no effort or work, just proof of your existence to qualify.  This creates a lot of people that just get by but have no opportunity to reach their potential or do something great. 

 

I believe the left/right divide is creating a lot of noise but not doing much to move towards solutions.  In many respects its a false conflict fighting at the margins for some meager prize.  The elites control 98% of the middle while the peasants on the left or right fight for the 1 or 2 percent at the margins.  For the most part the left uses the later (inner city poor) and the right uses the former (working class white) in their political efforts claiming to care but not doing much of anything for either.  Meanwhile the real powers skate through the center unnoticed because of the left/right conflict and diversion they created.  

[snafu]

41 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

How? What’s changed? 

 

 

Prior to Covid regulations, my day-to-day existence hasn't changed much. 

 

The only dramatic and disturbing change I see in the past 15 years is a rabid political party tribalism on both sides.  It used to be a fiction to think that one party was out to destroy the other.  Now, not so much. And it gets worse by the month.

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm in a similar position.  For context I live in an upper middle class single family home neighborhood.  Most of the residents are either professionals, small business owners, or mid-level managers in one of the many corporations dotting the region.  Most have advanced degrees, Masters and PhD's.  The demographics of the area are diverse, white, black, Asian (Chinese & Indian mostly), Hispanics.  Same for my work environment.  My natural instincts now are to not categorize or label anyone in this manner.  With experience you learn everyone is looking for the same thing.  A decent opportunity and a good life for themselves and their families and to see their kids do well or better than they are.  My grandparents were immigrants to this country.  My parents were working class people that saved and sacrificed to provide their kids a better life.  We grew up in a working class environment and my lifelong values and character were molding by this environment.  Its impossible for me to comprehend how much different it is growing up surrounded by relative affluence.  The kids think my stories about growing up are quaint but don't really understand the realities of hardship.  

 

People living in my area are completely insulated from the civil and social stiff experienced and witnessed by others on the ground.  Most I expect lean to the conservative side of things.  In the Summer there was a demonstration by local school aged kids protesting against injustice and inequality.  it was very orderly and polite as I would expect.  While I supported their efforts I wondered how they could even conceptualize of injustice and inequality.  Most are truly children of privilege.  But that privilege is derived from wealth and income and not race.  I expect few if any have experienced any of those situations or know what it means to be poor or want for things (growing up I came to know these things).  I laughed to myself as I thought it likely the biggest problem in life they've faced is something like a weak WiFi signal. 

 

In my view our social issues are not about race so much as they are about income and education.  Poor people just don't get treated very well in this country or maybe anywhere no matter their skin color.  The cops in my area are as unlikely to hassle affluent blacks as the are to hassle affluent whites.  

 

I think the American way of life is exemplified by you work hard and see your kids do better than you.  You pull your weight and expect the same of others.  I think one of the problems today is there is less and less opportunity to do that given how the economy has changed over the past 30 years.  Even college graduates have less opportunity and lower expectations of income.  There are a couple big  demographics that don't see this way of life as possible. 

 

Most "blue collar" jobs have disappeared in manufacturing & the supporting industries and businesses decimating a lot of small towns and cities in the process.  These people see little to be hopeful for.  The majority of them were Trump supporters.  They are not inherently bad people but rather they have lost faith in either of the major political parties to do anything for them.  After all, both presided over the elimination of their livelihoods.  Coastal liberals don't understand them.  But coastal liberals have been beneficiaries of globalization, financialization, and the information economy.  The majority are poor whites living near or below the "poverty level".  For these people the better life is a fantasy.  

 

The other big disadvantaged group is the inner city poor.  There have been programs and actions for 50+ years to end inner city poverty.  Most of them administered by politicians claiming to be supportive of these citizens.  And to this point without a lot of success.  The problem with these programs is they create government dependents rather than independent people.  I believe at their core people generally don't want handouts but rather a helping hand.  But the current craze is more handouts.  Guaranteed incomes and other things.  Free stuff that requires no effort or work, just proof of your existence to qualify.  This creates a lot of people that just get by but have no opportunity to reach their potential or do something great. 

 

I believe the left/right divide is creating a lot of noise but not doing much to move towards solutions.  In many respects its a false conflict fighting at the margins for some meager prize.  The elites control 98% of the middle while the peasants on the left or right fight for the 1 or 2 percent at the margins.  For the most part the left uses the later (inner city poor) and the right uses the former (working class white) in their political efforts claiming to care but not doing much of anything for either.  Meanwhile the real powers skate through the center unnoticed because of the left/right conflict and diversion they created.  

 

Great post agree with all of it. You're right on the smaller town rural places. Both sides lost faith. Live in one. Becoming a fast food and wal mart type of jobs. The bigger one's mean more moved out and people jumping ship quick. 

[US Egg]

Facebook, Twitter, Apple, Google, etc., manipulation only exists in the mind of the paranoid.

[JaCrispy]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm in a similar position.  For context I live in an upper middle class single family home neighborhood.  Most of the residents are either professionals, small business owners, or mid-level managers in one of the many corporations dotting the region.  Most have advanced degrees, Masters and PhD's.  The demographics of the area are diverse, white, black, Asian (Chinese & Indian mostly), Hispanics.  Same for my work environment.  My natural instincts now are to not categorize or label anyone in this manner.  With experience you learn everyone is looking for the same thing.  A decent opportunity and a good life for themselves and their families and to see their kids do well or better than they are.  My grandparents were immigrants to this country.  My parents were working class people that saved and sacrificed to provide their kids a better life.  We grew up in a working class environment and my lifelong values and character were molding by this environment.  Its impossible for me to comprehend how much different it is growing up surrounded by relative affluence.  The kids think my stories about growing up are quaint but don't really understand the realities of hardship.  

 

People living in my area are completely insulated from the civil and social stiff experienced and witnessed by others on the ground.  Most I expect lean to the conservative side of things.  In the Summer there was a demonstration by local school aged kids protesting against injustice and inequality.  it was very orderly and polite as I would expect.  While I supported their efforts I wondered how they could even conceptualize of injustice and inequality.  Most are truly children of privilege.  But that privilege is derived from wealth and income and not race.  I expect few if any have experienced any of those situations or know what it means to be poor or want for things (growing up I came to know these things).  I laughed to myself as I thought it likely the biggest problem in life they've faced is something like a weak WiFi signal. 

 

In my view our social issues are not about race so much as they are about income and education.  Poor people just don't get treated very well in this country or maybe anywhere no matter their skin color.  The cops in my area are as unlikely to hassle affluent blacks as the are to hassle affluent whites.  

 

I think the American way of life is exemplified by you work hard and see your kids do better than you.  You pull your weight and expect the same of others.  I think one of the problems today is there is less and less opportunity to do that given how the economy has changed over the past 30 years.  Even college graduates have less opportunity and lower expectations of income.  There are a couple big  demographics that don't see this way of life as possible. 

 

Most "blue collar" jobs have disappeared in manufacturing & the supporting industries and businesses decimating a lot of small towns and cities in the process.  These people see little to be hopeful for.  The majority of them were Trump supporters.  They are not inherently bad people but rather they have lost faith in either of the major political parties to do anything for them.  After all, both presided over the elimination of their livelihoods.  Coastal liberals don't understand them.  But coastal liberals have been beneficiaries of globalization, financialization, and the information economy.  The majority are poor whites living near or below the "poverty level".  For these people the better life is a fantasy.  

 

The other big disadvantaged group is the inner city poor.  There have been programs and actions for 50+ years to end inner city poverty.  Most of them administered by politicians claiming to be supportive of these citizens.  And to this point without a lot of success.  The problem with these programs is they create government dependents rather than independent people.  I believe at their core people generally don't want handouts but rather a helping hand.  But the current craze is more handouts.  Guaranteed incomes and other things.  Free stuff that requires no effort or work, just proof of your existence to qualify.  This creates a lot of people that just get by but have no opportunity to reach their potential or do something great. 

 

I believe the left/right divide is creating a lot of noise but not doing much to move towards solutions.  In many respects its a false conflict fighting at the margins for some meager prize.  The elites control 98% of the middle while the peasants on the left or right fight for the 1 or 2 percent at the margins.  For the most part the left uses the later (inner city poor) and the right uses the former (working class white) in their political efforts claiming to care but not doing much of anything for either.  Meanwhile the real powers skate through the center unnoticed because of the left/right conflict and diversion they created.  

I love the part of your post about how it’s not really about race, but rather income and education...I completely agree...

 

Many well-to-do black people feel the same...Denzel Washington once said “Its not about race...it’s about culture...”. I always take that with me...Morgan Freeman says similar things...

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

I love the part of your post about how it’s not really about race, but rather income and education...I completely agree...

 

Many well-to-do black people feel the same...Denzel Washington once said “Its not about race...it’s about culture...”. I always take that with me...Morgan Freeman says similar things...

He did post a really good post and really spot on with things how I am thinking.   Really helpful and good.

[RochesterRob]

  I see a fair amount of flawed thinking here.  Let's leave politics out of it and just talk technology.  I see a lot of assumptions here that while the unwashed rural folk will be swept away never to be seen again that the cul-de-sac crowd will go onward and upward.  Not so fast.  Technology is expanding exponentially which is invisible to most people who are not specifically looking for it.  Will a law firm keep on or add lawyers when AI develops to a point where an entity can prepare and execute cases for the managing partners instead of a living being?  Will hospitals need a myriad of specialists when AI entities can perform diagnosis and implement procedures to heal patients?  Will a manufacturing firm need to keep hiring engineers fresh out of college when AI can do the same work with far less chance of error?  What's the 30 year old cul-de-sac resident going to do in 20 years when technology gives him a hard push out of his career.  Consolidation is not going away whether it be in business, law, or medicine.  I remember studying the concept of the big box chain store at college decades ago while most Americans blissfully shopped the local lumber company, hardware store, mom and pop grocery, and banked at the local First National Bank in their community.  There are going to be flat out fewer opportunities for an increasing amount of people living in this country.  Our economy is rooted in most Americans bringing home a paycheck. What happens when the paychecks ran out 5 years ago and savings is just about exhausted.  Go ahead and talk to me like the buggy whip maker in 1925 who said automobiles will never fully replace the horse.  Or the candlestick maker who said that there will still be a healthy market for candles.  Or the chimney sweep who said that most Americans will keep on burning wood.  Whether it be 2000 BC, 1492 AD, or Carnegie in 19th Century America the desire by the ruling class has been to take as much of the human factor out of making money as possible.   
 

Edited February 15, 2021 by RochesterRob

[oldmanfan]

58 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm in a similar position.  For context I live in an upper middle class single family home neighborhood.  Most of the residents are either professionals, small business owners, or mid-level managers in one of the many corporations dotting the region.  Most have advanced degrees, Masters and PhD's.  The demographics of the area are diverse, white, black, Asian (Chinese & Indian mostly), Hispanics.  Same for my work environment.  My natural instincts now are to not categorize or label anyone in this manner.  With experience you learn everyone is looking for the same thing.  A decent opportunity and a good life for themselves and their families and to see their kids do well or better than they are.  My grandparents were immigrants to this country.  My parents were working class people that saved and sacrificed to provide their kids a better life.  We grew up in a working class environment and my lifelong values and character were molding by this environment.  Its impossible for me to comprehend how much different it is growing up surrounded by relative affluence.  The kids think my stories about growing up are quaint but don't really understand the realities of hardship.  

 

People living in my area are completely insulated from the civil and social stiff experienced and witnessed by others on the ground.  Most I expect lean to the conservative side of things.  In the Summer there was a demonstration by local school aged kids protesting against injustice and inequality.  it was very orderly and polite as I would expect.  While I supported their efforts I wondered how they could even conceptualize of injustice and inequality.  Most are truly children of privilege.  But that privilege is derived from wealth and income and not race.  I expect few if any have experienced any of those situations or know what it means to be poor or want for things (growing up I came to know these things).  I laughed to myself as I thought it likely the biggest problem in life they've faced is something like a weak WiFi signal. 

 

In my view our social issues are not about race so much as they are about income and education.  Poor people just don't get treated very well in this country or maybe anywhere no matter their skin color.  The cops in my area are as unlikely to hassle affluent blacks as the are to hassle affluent whites.  

 

I think the American way of life is exemplified by you work hard and see your kids do better than you.  You pull your weight and expect the same of others.  I think one of the problems today is there is less and less opportunity to do that given how the economy has changed over the past 30 years.  Even college graduates have less opportunity and lower expectations of income.  There are a couple big  demographics that don't see this way of life as possible. 

 

Most "blue collar" jobs have disappeared in manufacturing & the supporting industries and businesses decimating a lot of small towns and cities in the process.  These people see little to be hopeful for.  The majority of them were Trump supporters.  They are not inherently bad people but rather they have lost faith in either of the major political parties to do anything for them.  After all, both presided over the elimination of their livelihoods.  Coastal liberals don't understand them.  But coastal liberals have been beneficiaries of globalization, financialization, and the information economy.  The majority are poor whites living near or below the "poverty level".  For these people the better life is a fantasy.  

 

The other big disadvantaged group is the inner city poor.  There have been programs and actions for 50+ years to end inner city poverty.  Most of them administered by politicians claiming to be supportive of these citizens.  And to this point without a lot of success.  The problem with these programs is they create government dependents rather than independent people.  I believe at their core people generally don't want handouts but rather a helping hand.  But the current craze is more handouts.  Guaranteed incomes and other things.  Free stuff that requires no effort or work, just proof of your existence to qualify.  This creates a lot of people that just get by but have no opportunity to reach their potential or do something great. 

 

I believe the left/right divide is creating a lot of noise but not doing much to move towards solutions.  In many respects its a false conflict fighting at the margins for some meager prize.  The elites control 98% of the middle while the peasants on the left or right fight for the 1 or 2 percent at the margins.  For the most part the left uses the later (inner city poor) and the right uses the former (working class white) in their political efforts claiming to care but not doing much of anything for either.  Meanwhile the real powers skate through the center unnoticed because of the left/right conflict and diversion they created.  

This is one of, if not the best, posts I have ever read.  Many thanks.

13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I see a fair amount of flawed thinking here.  Let's leave politics out of it and just talk technology.  I see a lot of assumptions here that while the unwashed rural folk will be swept away never to be seen again that the cul-de-sac crowd will go onward and upward.  Not so fast.  Technology is expanding exponentially which is invisible to most people who are not specifically looking for it.  Will a law firm keep on or add lawyers when AI develops to a point where an entity can prepare and execute cases for the managing partners instead of a living being?  Will hospitals need a myriad of specialists when AI entities can perform diagnosis and implement procedures to heal patients?  Will a manufacturing firm need to keep hiring engineers fresh out of college when AI can do the same work with far less chance of error?  What's the 30 year old cup-de-sac resident going to do in 20 years when technology gives him a hard push out of his career.  Consolidation is not going away whether it be in business, law, or medicine.  I remember studying the concept of the big box chain store at college decades ago while most Americans blissfully shopped the local lumber company, hardware store, mom and pop grocery, and banked at the local First National Bank in their community.  There are going to be flat out fewer opportunities for an increasing amount of people living in this country.  Our economy is rooted in most Americans bringing home a paycheck. What happens when the paychecks ran out 5 years ago and savings is just about exhausted.  Go ahead and talk to me like the buggy whip maker in 1925 who said automobiles will never fully replace the horse.  Or the candlestick maker who said that there will still be a healthy market for candles.  Or the chimney sweep who said that most Americans will keep on burning wood.  Whether it be 2000 BC, 1492 AD, or Carnegie in 19th Century America the desire by the ruling class has been to take as much of the human factor out of making money as possible.   
 

Sobering thoughts here.  Accurate and sobering.

[SoCal Deek]

Thanks for starting this thread. The ‘American way of life’ has absolutely nothing to do with race whatsoever. The phrase has always meant that in America (unlike in other countries) you have the freedom to pursue your dreams, the expectation that you’ll be left alone to do so, and the hope that by doing so you’re kids will be better off than you. That’s pretty much it. 
 

If you want to dig deeper it’s underpinned by the idea that no matter where you came from you’re going to adopt America as your new home and have pride in it, first and foremost, even above your national origin.

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I see a fair amount of flawed thinking here.  Let's leave politics out of it and just talk technology.  I see a lot of assumptions here that while the unwashed rural folk will be swept away never to be seen again that the cul-de-sac crowd will go onward and upward.  Not so fast.  Technology is expanding exponentially which is invisible to most people who are not specifically looking for it.  Will a law firm keep on or add lawyers when AI develops to a point where an entity can prepare and execute cases for the managing partners instead of a living being?  Will hospitals need a myriad of specialists when AI entities can perform diagnosis and implement procedures to heal patients?  Will a manufacturing firm need to keep hiring engineers fresh out of college when AI can do the same work with far less chance of error?  What's the 30 year old cul-de-sac resident going to do in 20 years when technology gives him a hard push out of his career.  Consolidation is not going away whether it be in business, law, or medicine.  I remember studying the concept of the big box chain store at college decades ago while most Americans blissfully shopped the local lumber company, hardware store, mom and pop grocery, and banked at the local First National Bank in their community.  There are going to be flat out fewer opportunities for an increasing amount of people living in this country.  Our economy is rooted in most Americans bringing home a paycheck. What happens when the paychecks ran out 5 years ago and savings is just about exhausted.  Go ahead and talk to me like the buggy whip maker in 1925 who said automobiles will never fully replace the horse.  Or the candlestick maker who said that there will still be a healthy market for candles.  Or the chimney sweep who said that most Americans will keep on burning wood.  Whether it be 2000 BC, 1492 AD, or Carnegie in 19th Century America the desire by the ruling class has been to take as much of the human factor out of making money as possible.   
 

I would agree that's one potential future but I'd ask you to consider the concept that human history and evolution is not linear but rather cyclical.  Civilizations rise and fall like the grandeur of Roman Empire was followed by the depths of Dark Ages and then the enlightenment of the Renaissance.  Economic booms are proceeded by economic busts and so forth.  War leads to destruction while the following peace leads to a rebuilding.  Progress does not follow some straight line extrapolation.  That's why most forecasts of the future are wrong.  The forecasters are thinking in a linear fashion and their models reflect this thinking.  

 

What you're describing is an evolution in not only technology but in the amount of energy that can be made available as more efficient and abundant sources become available.  From brute force human labor all the way to petroleum and nuclear leading to the "green energy" movement of present day. 

 

I'd recommend reading "The Long Emergency" by Kunstler.  The premise behind most of the authors conclusions is the oil age presented the human race with a one time endowment of an abundance of energy and once that is gone none of the available alternatives will replace it much less provide more energy for future expansion. While I don't agree with all of his conclusions it does raise a lot of interesting questions.  

 

  

 

 

[T master]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

What freedoms have you lost? 

How? What’s changed? 

 

First it's freedoms we ALL have lost not just 1 but all  !!

 

Use to be you could take a man at his word and make a deal with a hand shake we use to leave our doors open at night we would even leave the screens open and be able to trust no one would break in wouldn't do that now and seldom locked the house  .

 

We use to walk miles down the road for halloween with out a worry of much of anything but getting candy - played hoops a quarter of a mile down the road every night road our bikes there and back also road them 7 miles to school & back you know any kids that do that today ?

 

Too didn't have to worry back then about guns in school because we handled our disputes out side with our fists if need be and if by chance we got our dads guns (because we knew where every one of them were) we knew we would get a ass whipping you would never forget we were held accountable for your actions - Can't do that today it's politically incorrect to use negativity or discipline to raise a child correctly 🙄

 

Today if you discipline a kid if they need it which some not all do you are a child abuser for spanking them even if it's deserved , but no we'll just send them to time out or count to 3 which you never get to as to not have to get up and actually take care of your child & that's because the gov't is to far in a place where they don't belong and have tried to take over telling us how to be "Great (politically correct) Parent" ...

 

Use to be you could have a preacher talk about verses in the Bible and not have it considered hate speech .

 

Use to be if someone was trying to burn the American flag a true American would care enough to try and stop them

 

 

Now the military that fight for that flag try to stop some one from disgracing the flag they will more than likely be jailed trying to stop said person from defacing the flag even though 100's of thousands have given their life for it but they burn it today like its just a rag with no meaning .

 

Need any more ???

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by T master

[US Egg]

23 minutes ago, T master said:

 

First it's freedoms we ALL have lost not just 1 but all  !!

 

Use to be you could take a man at his word and make a deal with a hand shake we use to leave our doors open at night we would even leave the screens open and be able to trust no one would break in wouldn't do that now and seldom locked the house  .

 

We use to walk miles down the road for halloween with out a worry of much of anything but getting candy - played hoops a quarter of a mile down the road every night road our bikes there and back also road them 7 miles to school & back you know any kids that do that today ?

 

Too didn't have to worry back then about guns in school because we handled our disputes out side with our fists if need be and if by chance we got our dads guns (because we knew where every one of them were) we knew we would get a ass whipping you would never forget we were held accountable for your actions - Can't do that today it's politically incorrect to use negativity or discipline to raise a child correctly 🙄

 

Today if you discipline a kid if they need it which some not all do you are a child abuser for spanking them even if it's deserved , but no we'll just send them to time out or count to 3 which you never get to as to not have to get up and actually take care of your child & that's because the gov't is to far in a place where they don't belong and have tried to take over telling us how to be "Great (politically correct) Parent" ...

 

Use to be you could have a preacher talk about verses in the Bible and not have it considered hate speech .

 

Use to be if someone was trying to burn the American flag a true American would care enough to try and stop them

 

 

Now the military that fight for that flag try to stop some one from disgracing the flag they will more than likely be jailed trying to stop said person from defacing the flag even though 100's of thousands have given their life for it but they burn it today like its just a rag with no meaning .

 

Need any more ???

How many in here would support what Rick Monday did?

 

Survey says: ?????

 

(my hand is up)

[RochesterRob]

58 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I would agree that's one potential future but I'd ask you to consider the concept that human history and evolution is not linear but rather cyclical.  Civilizations rise and fall like the grandeur of Roman Empire was followed by the depths of Dark Ages and then the enlightenment of the Renaissance.  Economic booms are proceeded by economic busts and so forth.  War leads to destruction while the following peace leads to a rebuilding.  Progress does not follow some straight line extrapolation.  That's why most forecasts of the future are wrong.  The forecasters are thinking in a linear fashion and their models reflect this thinking.  

 

What you're describing is an evolution in not only technology but in the amount of energy that can be made available as more efficient and abundant sources become available.  From brute force human labor all the way to petroleum and nuclear leading to the "green energy" movement of present day. 

 

I'd recommend reading "The Long Emergency" by Kunstler.  The premise behind most of the authors conclusions is the oil age presented the human race with a one time endowment of an abundance of energy and once that is gone none of the available alternatives will replace it much less provide more energy for future expansion. While I don't agree with all of his conclusions it does raise a lot of interesting questions.  

 

  

 

 

  Please give me a prediction as to how you see the next 20-25 years.  It will impact most people who are here on this board.  The way of life is going to change.  Nobody will be immune to it.  At what point will it be that the federal government decide that you do not need money.  That a basic provision will be handed out for a person to have the very basics in life such as food, clothing, transportation, etc. in a very subsistent life style and nothing more?  

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Please give me a prediction as to how you see the next 20-25 years.  It will impact most people who are here on this board.  The way of life is going to change.  Nobody will be immune to it.  At what point will it be that the federal government decide that you do not need money.  That a basic provision will be handed out for a person to have the very basics in life such as food, clothing, transportation, etc. in a very subsistent life style and nothing more?  

20 years is a long time. And I'm no futurist.  But I don't share some bleak and grey vision that people will simply serve no purpose other than to exist.  I expect there will be enough thinking and independent individuals that will choose to make a different type of society.   

 

But in 20 years I don't think the Democratic or Republican parties will exist.  I see the central government being and becoming more ineffective and losing a lot of its power so I don't see the "big brother" scenario playing out.  Shopping malls will disappear.  Some large scale war will have occurred or be in progress.  We still won't have flying cars.  Oil and gas will still be around.  Green energy will be important but will not replace fossil fuel sources.  A revival of nuclear power will present itself. 

 

All the social issues of today will appear unimportant and trivial relative to the challenges of the time.  "Hard" skills will be a must.  Globalization will give way to localization.  Technology in science and medicine will continue to make progress but technology will not be revered with any God-like qualities to replace human interaction or control.

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but there’s a real movement to abolish the entire notion of countries altogether. The American way of life? It’s entirely possible that there won’t be an America at all. It will be replaced with a border less single planet civilization all sharing resources in an effort to eliminate disease, poverty, income inequality, tribalism, and of course reverse climate change. And while that’s happening, behind the scenes a few powerfully well connected people will amass tremendous wealth and control. 

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

20 years is a long time. And I'm no futurist.  But I don't share some bleak and grey vision that people will simply serve no purpose other than to exist.  I expect there will be enough thinking and independent individuals that will choose to make a different type of society.   

 

But in 20 years I don't think the Democratic or Republican parties will exist.  I see the central government being and becoming more ineffective and losing a lot of its power so I don't see the "big brother" scenario playing out.  Shopping malls will disappear.  Some large scale war will have occurred or be in progress.  We still won't have flying cars.  Oil and gas will still be around.  Green energy will be important but will not replace fossil fuel sources.  A revival of nuclear power will present itself. 

 

All the social issues of today will appear unimportant and trivial relative to the challenges of the time.  "Hard" skills will be a must.  Globalization will give way to localization.  Technology in science and medicine will continue to make progress but technology will not be revered with any God-like qualities to replace human interaction or control.

 

 

 

  20 years is not all that long a time and I am not all that old.  I don't know how different that you could make society than what it is now versus what it was a couple of generations ago.  There are only so many ways that you can derive food and only so many ways that you can have sex and we have explored the vast majority of them.  Only so many ways to have altered conciouness.  

 

  There is too much money and power to be had for certain people for a central government to fade away.  More power plants are going to be needed to be built if we are going to have battery power vehicles.  And nobody is talking about what needs to be done when a battery reaches the end of its useful life.

 

  Hard skills such as growing gardens and tending other plants?  The trend is having very small space around most residences.  Where is the land going to come from?  Will people be driven off of their land so others may have use of it in the name of green revolution?  Localization means a loss of power of globalists.  They will not allow a long term trend to root down into the soil.  Technology is god to many many people.  I remember many years ago in my student residence that they could not do basic accounting in terms of charging rent and board without a computer to tabulate it on.  We were talking at the most 20 people.  The data entry into the computer was negligibly shorter than a paper based ledger accounting system.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  20 years is not all that long a time and I am not all that old.  I don't know how different that you could make society than what it is now versus what it was a couple of generations ago.  There are only so many ways that you can derive food and only so many ways that you can have sex and we have explored the vast majority of them.  Only so many ways to have altered conciouness.  

 

  There is too much money and power to be had for certain people for a central government to fade away.  More power plants are going to be needed to be built if we are going to have battery power vehicles.  And nobody is talking about what needs to be done when a battery reaches the end of its useful life.

 

  Hard skills such as growing gardens and tending other plants?  The trend is having very small space around most residences.  Where is the land going to come from?  Will people be driven off of their land so others may have use of it in the name of green revolution?  Localization means a loss of power of globalists.  They will not allow a long term trend to root down into the soil.  Technology is god to many many people.  I remember many years ago in my student residence that they could not do basic accounting in terms of charging rent and board without a computer to tabulate it on.  We were talking at the most 20 people.  The data entry into the computer was negligibly shorter than a paper based ledger accounting system.  

 Central governments and powerful monopolies do fade away or get removed or replaced.  History is littered with such examples.  Governments, empires, corporations, whole industries.  I suspect citizens of Rome or Egypt or the Spanish and British empires, the Aztecs when the conquistadors arrived, or hundreds of Monarchs throughout history had expectations of power and control into the future forever.  Then the Huns showed up at the city gates or the public lost faith and looked to other arrangements.  Complex systems fail.  Sometimes they fail because the cost of maintaining and running them exceeds the benefit.  Sometimes they fail because people just lose faith in them.  What is more inefficient and ineffective than the US government?  How much faith do we have in the government to get anything right? 

 

I completely agree with you regarding Electric Vehicles.  But I don't see the issue of where all this power generation to "fuel" the EV fleet is going to come from being discussed a lot.  Just by doing some simple math.  The US consumes about 9.3 million barrels of gasoline daily.  At 44 gallons per barrel.  One gallon of gasoline produces 44Kw of energy output.  A standard 2x4 solar panel produces 1.5Kw per day.  Ignoring efficiency factors one way or the other it would take 29 solar panels to replace the output of one gallon of gasoline.  If my math is right it would require 269.7 million solar panels to replace one days gasoline consumption operating at spec to 1.5Kw.  And as I'm not an electrical engineer or an expert on the efficiencies or inefficiencies of EV or the internal combustion engine I'd leave it to those experts to derive an exact number.  Whatever the specific number might be its a big one.  As such I think the 100% EV fleet idea is a wild fantasy absent some massive amount of new uninterruptible generation capacity.

 

      

 

 

[RochesterRob]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 Central governments and powerful monopolies do fade away or get removed or replaced.  History is littered with such examples.  Governments, empires, corporations, whole industries.  I suspect citizens of Rome or Egypt or the Spanish and British empires, the Aztecs when the conquistadors arrived, or hundreds of Monarchs throughout history had expectations of power and control into the future forever.  Then the Huns showed up at the city gates or the public lost faith and looked to other arrangements.  Complex systems fail.  Sometimes they fail because the cost of maintaining and running them exceeds the benefit.  Sometimes they fail because people just lose faith in them.  What is more inefficient and ineffective than the US government?  How much faith do we have in the government to get anything right? 

 

I completely agree with you regarding Electric Vehicles.  But I don't see the issue of where all this power generation to "fuel" the EV fleet is going to come from being discussed a lot.  Just by doing some simple math.  The US consumes about 9.3 million barrels of gasoline daily.  At 44 gallons per barrel.  One gallon of gasoline produces 44Kw of energy output.  A standard 2x4 solar panel produces 1.5Kw per day.  Ignoring efficiency factors one way or the other it would take 29 solar panels to replace the output of one gallon of gasoline.  If my math is right it would require 269.7 million solar panels to replace one days gasoline consumption operating at spec to 1.5Kw.  And as I'm not an electrical engineer or an expert on the efficiencies or inefficiencies of EV or the internal combustion engine I'd leave it to those experts to derive an exact number.  Whatever the specific number might be its a big one.  As such I think the 100% EV fleet idea is a wild fantasy absent some massive amount of new uninterruptible generation capacity.

 

      

 

 

  You know what Egypt, Rome, Spain, and the British lacked that governments have today?  Rapid communication and surveillance.  Plus today's governments have the benefit of learning history even if the population under them is ignorant of history.  Had King John modern communication and surveillance he would never have agreed to the Magna Carta as he would know what most of his opponents were up to.  Plus he would employ hot wenches as spies to gather information on what the various dukes and earls were complaining about relative to the king.  

[SoCal Deek]

51 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You know what Egypt, Rome, Spain, and the British lacked that governments have today?  Rapid communication and surveillance.  Plus today's governments have the benefit of learning history even if the population under them is ignorant of history.  Had King John modern communication and surveillance he would never have agreed to the Magna Carta as he would know what most of his opponents were up to.  Plus he would employ hot wenches as spies to gather information on what the various dukes and earls were complaining about relative to the king.  

Are you saying King John knew Fang Fang? 😉

[T master]

On 2/15/2021 at 12:11 PM, Tiberius said:

What freedoms have you lost? 

How? What’s changed? 

 

Still waiting for your reply to what i wrote about this at least do the thumbs down thing if you can't think of a response i know you've read it by now .

 

Same as it ever was ...

[Big Gun]

 

On 2/16/2021 at 8:50 AM, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but there’s a real movement to abolish the entire notion of countries altogether. The American way of life? It’s entirely possible that there won’t be an America at all. It will be replaced with a border less single planet civilization all sharing resources in an effort to eliminate disease, poverty, income inequality, tribalism, and of course reverse climate change. And while that’s happening, behind the scenes a few powerfully well connected people will amass tremendous wealth and control. 

That's the leftist goal. What could go wrong there.....

Edited February 17, 2021 by Big Gun

[oldmanfan]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, T master said:

 

First it's freedoms we ALL have lost not just 1 but all  !!

 

Use to be you could take a man at his word and make a deal with a hand shake we use to leave our doors open at night we would even leave the screens open and be able to trust no one would break in wouldn't do that now and seldom locked the house  .

 

We use to walk miles down the road for halloween with out a worry of much of anything but getting candy - played hoops a quarter of a mile down the road every night road our bikes there and back also road them 7 miles to school & back you know any kids that do that today ?

 

Too didn't have to worry back then about guns in school because we handled our disputes out side with our fists if need be and if by chance we got our dads guns (because we knew where every one of them were) we knew we would get a ass whipping you would never forget we were held accountable for your actions - Can't do that today it's politically incorrect to use negativity or discipline to raise a child correctly 🙄

 

Today if you discipline a kid if they need it which some not all do you are a child abuser for spanking them even if it's deserved , but no we'll just send them to time out or count to 3 which you never get to as to not have to get up and actually take care of your child & that's because the gov't is to far in a place where they don't belong and have tried to take over telling us how to be "Great (politically correct) Parent" ...

 

Use to be you could have a preacher talk about verses in the Bible and not have it considered hate speech .

 

Use to be if someone was trying to burn the American flag a true American would care enough to try and stop them

 

 

Now the military that fight for that flag try to stop some one from disgracing the flag they will more than likely be jailed trying to stop said person from defacing the flag even though 100's of thousands have given their life for it but they burn it today like its just a rag with no meaning .

 

Need any more ???

 

 

 

 

These ae not freedoms as in freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution, these are ways of life that have changed.  And I wish some hadn't.  I agree about kids being trusted to be more responsible back in my day.  We would go out the door after breakfast in the summer, be home for lunch and dinner, and other than that we played and Mom wasn't arranging play dates.  Too much helicopter parenting now.

 

As for other things you mention, locking your door was either done or not done depending on where you lived.  I had my share of fights back then, but no one had the relative easy availability of guns with multiple shot magazines as they do now.  That is a sad part of today's society; we have freedom guaranteed to bear arms but I would argue as did Justice Scalia that you do not have the right to bear any arm you want.  Parents should be allowed to parent, but they should not be allowed to beat up their kid, and that should not have been allowed in my day either.  There is a difference between discipline and abuse.  As for the flag, I applaud what Rick Monday did, but also stand up for the right of someone to burn the flag in protest as detestable as I find that practice.  

 

And as for preachers, I am all for preachers like my pastor, who preaches the Gospel and Christ's teaching every Sunday, who preaches of a God of love who asks His children to serve others in His name, as opposed to the so-called evangelical preachers who are nothing but politicians hiding in a preacher's clothes and who don't have the slightest clue what evangelism in His name means.

 

So we agree on some things and not on others.  But I would argue that my basic freedoms as granted by our Constitution have not changed through the years.  

[Tiberius]

13 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Still waiting for your reply to what i wrote about this at least do the thumbs down thing if you can't think of a response i know you've read it by now .

 

Same as it ever was ...

I’m sorry, totally forgot. What freedoms did you lose? What oppression are you suffering from? I’ll be back in awhile to see answer. I mean if AOC hasn’t already arrested you yet 

[Tiberius]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, T master said:

 

First it's freedoms we ALL have lost not just 1 but all  !!

 

Use to be you could take a man at his word and make a deal with a hand shake we use to leave our doors open at night we would even leave the screens open and be able to trust no one would break in wouldn't do that now and seldom locked the house  .

 

 

 

 

 

What?? When was this? When was there no crime? 

 

Did you realize that the crime rate is way down from the 90's? 

[T master]

Just now, Tiberius said:

I’m sorry, totally forgot. What freedoms did you lose? What oppression are you suffering from? I’ll be back in awhile to see answer. I mean if AOC hasn’t already arrested you yet 

 

If you would have read the reply i referenced you would know but As usual you just don't pay attention to any thing but what fits or just pass over it !

 

I haven't been arrested because i obey the laws but i'm sure there is someone out there that could twist my thoughts or words into something they don't

like  !

 

I'm oppressed by the lack of common sense interjected in rational thought or conversation by career politicians .

 

 

[Tiberius]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, T master said:

 

 

We use to walk miles down the road for halloween with out a worry of much of anything but getting candy - played hoops a quarter of a mile down the road every night road our bikes there and back also road them 7 miles to school & back you know any kids that do that today ?

 

 

 

 

 

I see kids out playing all the time. We have hoop courts down the road that kids are always playing at. We have Holloween still. What are you talking about? 

 

 

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, T master said:

 

 

 

Too didn't have to worry back then about guns in school because we handled our disputes out side with our fists if need be and if by chance we got our dads guns (because we knew where every one of them were) we knew we would get a ass whipping you would never forget we were held accountable for your actions - Can't do that today it's politically incorrect to use negativity or discipline to raise a child correctly 🙄

 

 

 

 

 

You want more fighting? Huh? And, gun violence is nothing new. Gun massacres are more common, though. 

 

We also have more safeguards to protect women from drunk abusive husbands, thanks to liberals. That's a good thing, right? The Violence Against Women Act was real good. Agreed?

[Tiberius]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, T master said:

 

 

Today if you discipline a kid if they need it which some not all do you are a child abuser for spanking them even if it's deserved , but no we'll just send them to time out or count to 3 which you never get to as to not have to get up and actually take care of your child & that's because the gov't is to far in a place where they don't belong and have tried to take over telling us how to be "Great (politically correct) Parent" ...

 

 

 

 

 

Can you give us examples of this? My friends children are super well behaved, respectful and nice. They don't seem to need beaten on. Hitting kids is generally stupid, teaches them that violence solves problems. It doesn't. 

 

But are there lots of examples of simple spankings resulting in arrests of parents? 

 

I have seen cases of child abuse, serious, horrible abuse, where parents complained they were not allowed to "discipline" their kids. 

 

Would you let a teacher punch your child in school if he/she were acting up? 

[T master]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

I see kids out playing all the time. We have hoop courts down the road that kids are always playing at. We have Holloween still. What are you talking about? 

 

 

 

Your definitely 1 of a kind i just hope they broke the mold ! 

 

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion !! 

 

 

[Tiberius]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, T master said:

 

 

Use to be you could have a preacher talk about verses in the Bible and not have it considered hate speech .

 

 

 

 

 

What?? Where, at a Klan rally? What are you talking about here? 

Just now, T master said:

 

Your definitely 1 of a kind i just hope they broke the mold ! 

 

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion !! 

 

 

Lol, you just described yourself.