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YoloinOhio

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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22 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You bring up good points Hap and that is true for most typical years but the truth is that this coming year there is going to

be only half of the money available chasing the same amount of free agents.  Actually because of other teams in cap trouble

it will probably be more free agent then ever.  A number of those 11 teams also need to sign a bunch of their own FAs too.

 

Those teams left that are looking for an OLB AND HAVE THE MONEY will be chasing bigger names than Milano to begin with.

Here are the OLBs on the market right now.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/outside-linebacker/

 

I don't think Milano gets the money he is looking for IMO.

 

 

Also valid points, @ColoradoBills

 

Two counterpoints:

1) I expect a lot of those guys aren't going anywhere (Judon, Lavonte David).  If they are, Sign Me Up.  Guy with 8/9 seasons over 100 tackles and double digit TFL?  Lavonte David over Milano every day of the week and 2x on Sunday, please.

 

2) Just like they say "it's a matchup league", it's a matchup game in FA.  A lot of those guys are Edge types, rather than the mix of run D and coverage LB Milano has developed himself into.  So it's not accurate to picture Milano as competing against that whole list.

 

I personally feel the Wawrow story came out as agent-driven.  I think Milano has been told the Bills aren't going to be able to pay him what he wants, which would be along the lines of the market value Spotrac gives him of 3 years, $41.5M or $13.8M/yr and that he has some interest, but nothing as definite as he'd like.  So he's putting himself out there as available and as "just an innocent victim of Cap Circumstance here, nothing to see in my injury history that should put you off".

 

Like I said, Milano only needs 1-2 teams where his skills, their needs, and their cap space overlap

 

 

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reddogblitz
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I don't get why so many are down on Brown.  He was great in 2019 and played well before the injury.  Of course he didn't get as many yards/catches cuz we added Diggs.  You gotta have more than 1 stud

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Royale with Cheese
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ColoradoBills Hall of Famer

ColoradoBills

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Also valid points, @ColoradoBills

 

Two counterpoints:

1) I expect a lot of those guys aren't going anywhere (Judon, Lavonte David).  If they are, Sign Me Up.  Guy with 8/9 seasons over 100 tackles and double digit TFL?  Lavonte David over Milano every day of the week and 2x on Sunday, please.

 

2) Just like they say "it's a matchup league", it's a matchup game in FA.  A lot of those guys are Edge types, rather than the mix of run D and coverage LB Milano has developed himself into.  So it's not accurate to picture Milano as competing against that whole list.

 

I personally feel the Wawrow story came out as agent-driven.  I think Milano has been told the Bills aren't going to be able to pay him what he wants, which would be along the lines of the market value Spotrac gives him of 3 years, $41.5M or $13.8M/yr and that he has some interest, but nothing as definite as he'd like.  So he's putting himself out there as available and as "just an innocent victim of Cap Circumstance here, nothing to see in my injury history that should put you off".

 

 

 

Good counterpoints that I will comment on.

 

1.  Yes some of these OLBs (or any other position to my point) will be signed by their original team.  Every time that happens the potential

cap pool diminishes.  If the Raven re-sign Judon it's also another team not looking to sign a high dollar Milano too.

Right now the Cowboys have 27M in cap space but as soon as they sign Dak that is gone.

Pittsburg will have a hard time signing JuJu and Dupree so Bud Dupree could be a big target.

 

2.  Totally agree with the "fit" point.  It's just a lot less teams with money looking to be that "fit" for a guy like Milano.

If there is one he will be gone.  If not he may be back for a one year deal.

 

Spotrac has the average cap space for each team in the league at $15M with a $185M cap.

If that is increased to $190M that an average of $20M per team average.

20M X 32 = $640M in total cap out there.

 

If things were normal the cap would be $209M this year.  But I just figured $190M.

That's a 19M deficit.

19M X 32 = $608M less than normal.

That where I get only about half the amount of cap space chasing Free Agents.

 

Things will get interesting if these numbers become reality! 

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

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On 2/15/2021 at 1:49 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Hardly. He cut guys and created a cap disaster then overspent on several free agents. He did well with several like Williams, Beasley, Feliciano, and Brown but really overspent on the likes of Murphy, Morse, Butler, Kleine, Jefferson, and Addison. Basically he is your average GM that got a franchise QB in Allen. If the Browns or Jets had taken Allen he would have traded up for Rosen.


This can be said about every single GM.  They have hits and misses.

 

He built a roster that went 13-3 and one step away from the Super Bowl.  He didn’t “get” a franchise QB, he traded up for one that was a huge project.  The Pats got a franchise QB in Brady because he was just sitting there in the 6th round....we moved up to the top 10 to get ours!  
 

I think its pretty obvious based on Rosen’s personality that he’s not a McDermott guy at all.  If the Jets or Browns take Allen, you that means Darnold or Baker would be available.  You’re only choosing Rosen because he was a bust and want to be negative about Beane.

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This can be said about every single GM.  They have hits and misses.

 

He built a roster that went 13-3 and one step away from the Super Bowl.  He didn’t “get” a franchise QB, he traded up for one that was a huge project.  The Pats got a franchise QB in Brady because he was just sitting there in the 6th round....we moved up to the top 10 to get ours!  
 

I think its pretty obvious based on Rosen’s personality that he’s not a McDermott guy at all.  If the Jets or Browns take Allen, you that means Darnold or Baker would be available.  You’re only choosing Rosen because he was a bust and want to be negative about Beane.

 

I'm not sure where it was said that the Bills liked Rosen, much less would have traded-up for him.  And if the Browns hadn't taken Baker, they likely would have taken Josh and the Jets likely would still have taken Darnold, leaving Mayfield for the Bills. 

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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

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2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I'm not sure where it was said that the Bills liked Rosen, much less would have traded-up for him.  And if the Browns hadn't taken Baker, they likely would have taken Josh and the Jets likely would still have taken Darnold, leaving Mayfield for the Bills. 

I’m pretty sure they didn’t have either Rosen or mayfield on their board per reports after the draft

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Buffalo_Stampede Hall of Famer

Buffalo_Stampede

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31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Kirksey is best friends with Hyde?  How do you know?

College teammates. Friends. This was all talked about last offseason. I think Kirksey turned us down for Green Bay though. Reminds me of John Brown turning us down for Baltimore only to sign with Buffalo the following year. 

 

Kirksey can replace Milano for at least a year. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

College teammates. Friends. This was all talked about last offseason. I think Kirksey turned us down for Green Bay though. Reminds me of John Brown turning us down for Baltimore only to sign with Buffalo the following year. 

 

Kirksey can replace Milano for at least a year. 

 

But that injury history....

 

What does Kirksey bring here that Klein (already signed) does not?

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Athleticism. Every player is a play away from injury. For the price the risk is minor. 

 

It's true that every player is a "play away from injury", but:

-It's just been reported he was released with a "failed physical" designation: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/christian-kirksey-failed-physical-designation/

-He missed 5 games this season with a pec injury, then after returning to 100% of the snaps, saw decreased playing time either losing snaps to rookies, or on a snap count.

-This is after he was placed on season ending IR by the Browns 2 games into the 2019 season with a torn pec that required surgery.

-In 2018 he missed 9 games, 8 at the end of the season, with a hamstring injury

 

Those don't sound like "every player a play away", certainly the pec sounds like a potential ongoing concern.

 

Then there's the point that for most of his career in Cleveland, he played ILB and I think that's where he played with GB.  The position that needs filling here is OLB...

 

I think we need a serious attempt to upgrade our LB play, not another downhill-slide player we overpay as a FA.

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Buffalo_Stampede Hall of Famer

Buffalo_Stampede

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16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's true that every player is a "play away from injury", but:

-It's just been reported he was released with a "failed physical" designation: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/christian-kirksey-failed-physical-designation/

-He missed 5 games this season with a pec injury, then after returning to 100% of the snaps, saw decreased playing time either losing snaps to rookies, or on a snap count.

-This is after he was placed on season ending IR by the Browns 2 games into the 2019 season with a torn pec that required surgery.

-In 2018 he missed 9 games, 8 at the end of the season, with a hamstring injury

 

Those don't sound like "every player a play away", certainly the pec sounds like a potential ongoing concern.

 

Then there's the point that for most of his career in Cleveland, he played ILB and I think that's where he played with GB.  The position that needs filling here is OLB...

 

I think we need a serious attempt to upgrade our LB play, not another downhill-slide player we overpay as a FA.

I know his injury history. Bills need to worry about upgrading the OL, DL, and CB. Find a plug at weak side LB for the year. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I know his injury history. Bills need to worry about upgrading the OL, DL, and CB. Find a plug at weak side LB for the year. 

 

I think they did.  His name is AJ Klein, and he started 11 games for the Bills this year, of which we won 9. 

He's already on the roster, counted against the cap, and familiar with the defensive system.  And rumor has it Darron Lee has an offer sheet from the Bills.

 

No need to spend more cap dollars on an older vet linebacker with a problematic injury history, even if he was more athletic once upon a time.

 

We need to draft a LB though.

 

I like what I saw of Dane Jackson at CB this year and it sounds as though Beane did too.

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Buffalo_Stampede Hall of Famer

Buffalo_Stampede

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think they did.  His name is AJ Klein, and he started 11 games for the Bills this year, of which we won 9. 

He's already on the roster, counted against the cap, and familiar with the defensive system.  And rumor has it Darron Lee has an offer sheet from the Bills.

 

No need to spend more cap dollars on an older vet linebacker with a problematic injury history, even if he was more athletic once upon a time.

 

We need to draft a LB though.

 

I like what I saw of Dane Jackson at CB this year and it sounds as though Beane did too.

Basically I'm fine with everything you said. This year we must go cheap at weak side LB. We might not find a suitable replacement this offseason. McDermott will make it work though. Improve DL and CB and we'll be OK this year. 

 

Dane Jackson was good in a small sample. I also feel we could say the same of possible Milano replacement Dodson. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Basically I'm fine with everything you said. This year we must go cheap at weak side LB. We might not find a suitable replacement this offseason. McDermott will make it work though. Improve DL and CB and we'll be OK this year. 

 

Dane Jackson was good in a small sample. I also feel we could say the same of possible Milano replacement Dodson. 

 

Question: Why do you see Dodson as a possible Milano replacement? 

 

The games where Dodson got significant snaps last season were Week 2 (Miami) and Week 5 (Tenn). 

 

Pretty sure vs. Miami he was playing for Edmunds at MLB, next to AJ Klein for Milano and it wasn't pretty

vs. Tenn he was definitely playing for Milano next to Edmunds and it was FUGLY, but our whole D sucked that day so it's hard to pin it on him....

 

Anyway, I wouldn't want to pin the FUGLY on him, but I didn't see anything that made me think "damn, he could be good"

 

FWIW (given it's off season), Matakevich has replaced Dodson as the backup to Edmunds on the Bills depth chart

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Buffalo_Stampede Hall of Famer

Buffalo_Stampede

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15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: Why do you see Dodson as a possible Milano replacement? 

 

The games where Dodson got significant snaps last season were Week 2 (Miami) and Week 5 (Tenn). 

 

Pretty sure vs. Miami he was playing for Edmunds at MLB, next to AJ Klein for Milano and it wasn't pretty

vs. Tenn he was definitely playing for Milano next to Edmunds and it was FUGLY, but our whole D sucked that day so it's hard to pin it on him....

 

Anyway, I wouldn't want to pin the FUGLY on him, but I didn't see anything that made me think "damn, he could be good"

 

FWIW (given it's off season), Matakevich has replaced Dodson as the backup to Edmunds on the Bills depth chart

I don't want to replace Milano with Dodson. I also don't want to start Dane Jackson at CB. These are options, very unlikely the Bills depend on them. 

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thenorthremembers

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18 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Athleticism. Every player is a play away from injury. For the price the risk is minor. 

But does Kirksey still have the athleticism?   He is going to be near his career cliff when the season starts at 29.   WLB is a pretty important role in the Bills defense to try and just plug a once good player into.   With the amount of things McDermott and Frazier ask the WLB to do in this defense I'd really prefer them to find someone a bit younger.

 

Kirksey had one good season in a 4-3 OLB role, otherwise he has been a 3-4 ILB.   He is oft injured, and really has been a below average player for three years now.   If we were talking about a SLB who was going to be on the field sparingly I'd be fine with kicking the tires on the guy.  I'd honestly even be ok signing him to a very low one year contract to split time with a rookie, but I dont think he is the guy you want playing a majority of the snaps at this point in his career.

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Buffalo_Stampede Hall of Famer

Buffalo_Stampede

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2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

But does Kirksey still have the athleticism?   He is going to be near his career cliff when the season starts at 29.   WLB is a pretty important role in the Bills defense to try and just plug a once good player into.   With the amount of things McDermott and Frazier ask the WLB to do in this defense I'd really prefer them to find someone a bit younger.

 

Kirksey had one good season in a 4-3 OLB role, otherwise he has been a 3-4 ILB.   He is oft injured, and really has been a below average player for three years now.   If we were talking about a SLB who was going to be on the field sparingly I'd be fine with kicking the tires on the guy.  I'd honestly even be ok signing him to a very low one year contract to split time with a rookie, but I dont think he is the guy you want playing a majority of the snaps at this point in his career.

We saw how the adjusted with Klein. McDermott can make it work. 

 

I think he's a much better football player than Klein. 

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's true that every player is a "play away from injury", but:

-It's just been reported he was released with a "failed physical" designation: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/christian-kirksey-failed-physical-designation/

-He missed 5 games this season with a pec injury, then after returning to 100% of the snaps, saw decreased playing time either losing snaps to rookies, or on a snap count.

-This is after he was placed on season ending IR by the Browns 2 games into the 2019 season with a torn pec that required surgery.

-In 2018 he missed 9 games, 8 at the end of the season, with a hamstring injury

 

Those don't sound like "every player a play away", certainly the pec sounds like a potential ongoing concern.

 

Then there's the point that for most of his career in Cleveland, he played ILB and I think that's where he played with GB.  The position that needs filling here is OLB...

 

I think we need a serious attempt to upgrade our LB play, not another downhill-slide player we overpay as a FA.

I agree....but we also have to upgrade our OL, DL, RB, TE and CB.  We can’t do it all in one season.  We’re going to have to slap a bandaid on a couple positions.  If they choose to bandaid LB, Kirksey would be an option.  I don’t think we’d have to pay too much for him and should most likely get a 1 year deal, but we’ll see.  

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree....but we also have to upgrade our OL, DL, RB, TE and CB.  We can’t do it all in one season.  We’re going to have to slap a bandaid on a couple positions.  If they choose to bandaid LB, Kirksey would be an option.  I don’t think we’d have to pay too much for him and should most likely get a 1 year deal, but we’ll see.  

 

My point is that I believe AJ Klein was brought in to be a potential band-aid depending upon what they decided about Milano, with possibly Darron Lee as a backup plan, while they snag a couple guys to draft-and-develop.  If they've decided that Milano's money//injury risk ratio is not in their favor despite his skill (which it seems as though they have), I don't see why Kirksey would be a good band-aid alternative; they might look for a different FA, perhaps.

 

 

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My point is that I believe AJ Klein was brought in to be a potential band-aid depending upon what they decided about Milano, with possibly Darron Lee as a backup plan, while they snag a couple guys to draft-and-develop.  If they've decided that Milano's money//injury risk ratio is not in their favor despite his skill (which it seems as though they have), I don't see why Kirksey would be a good band-aid alternative; they might look for a different FA, perhaps.

 

 

👍🏻

 

Because I don’t think he’ll cost 1/2 of what Milano did. 1 year 4-5 mill bandaid. If he wants more money or years....he’s not a good bandaid.  He’s a much better coverage LB than Klein is and fills the “3 down” backer much better than Klein imo. 
 

We’re going to have quite a few 1 year bandaids over the next decade+.  If we neglect Lb in the draft and don’t want to invest $ or years in this free agent class, he could fit.  There are a bunch of LBs out there in free agency.  I don’t think he’s gonna get paid much.

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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

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14 hours ago, NewEra said:

👍🏻

 

Because I don’t think he’ll cost 1/2 of what Milano did. 1 year 4-5 mill bandaid. If he wants more money or years....he’s not a good bandaid.  He’s a much better coverage LB than Klein is and fills the “3 down” backer much better than Klein imo. 
 

We’re going to have quite a few 1 year bandaids over the next decade+.  If we neglect Lb in the draft and don’t want to invest $ or years in this free agent class, he could fit.  There are a bunch of LBs out there in free agency.  I don’t think he’s gonna get paid much.

I would sign kirksey and draft a Milano replacement as well. 

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I would sign kirksey and draft a Milano replacement as well. 

Definitely a possibility.  I think that depends on how they view Dotson.  If they see him as a viable replacement, than I think they’ll only add one.  But than again, if they cut Matakavich, maybe they add 2.

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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

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31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Definitely a possibility.  I think that depends on how they view Dotson.  If they see him as a viable replacement, than I think they’ll only add one.  But than again, if they cut Matakavich, maybe they add 2.

I would be very surprised if they view Dodson as anything more than solid depth. I don’t see matakevich being cut. I think they add 2 - they need to get to 90 players. It will sort itself out in TC but ultimately adding one vet who can start right away and then adding the young guy in the draft just makes roster building sense short term and long term. Milano himself didn’t start as a rookie, maybe toward the end of that season. The beauty of the LB position though is there are always opportunities to get on the field

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I would be very surprised if they view Dodson as anything more than solid depth. I don’t see matakevich being cut. I think they add 2 - they need to get to 90 players. It will sort itself out in TC but ultimately adding one vet who can start right away and then adding the young guy in the draft just makes roster building sense short term and long term. Milano himself didn’t start as a rookie, maybe toward the end of that season. The beauty of the LB position though is there are always opportunities to get on the field

True that.

 

Or we can get lucky and Zaven Collins falls to us! 🙏🏻😀

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

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1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I would be very surprised if they view Dodson as anything more than solid depth. I don’t see matakevich being cut. I think they add 2 - they need to get to 90 players. It will sort itself out in TC but ultimately adding one vet who can start right away and then adding the young guy in the draft just makes roster building sense short term and long term. Milano himself didn’t start as a rookie, maybe toward the end of that season. The beauty of the LB position though is there are always opportunities to get on the field

 

I can see us taking an athletic day 2 or 3 WLB.  Klein in 2021 can be what Ramon Humber was in 2017....eventually letting the rookie take over.

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It seems very unlikely to me that they view Dodson as a Milano replacement.

 

 

I agree....

 

I do wonder how do they view him though. 
 

I thought he flashed vs the jets and Miami weeks 1-2.  Certainly not enough be take over full time....but they may like him enough to only add one vet to start this year with hopes that he can grow into the role over the year?  
 

or not.....but maybe 🤔 😂

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