Defenses led Brady to his last two rings

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

As much as people talk about how great a receiving TE Gronk is, they often overlook just how amazing he is as a run blocker as well...Gronk was sealing the edge against DE's routinely on those outside runs and that is a HUGE benefit to an offense when you have a TE that can not only hold their own in those run blocking matchups, but actually WIN versus a DE.  Usually a TE trying to block a DE is laughable and the TE gets destroyed.  Knox got blown up a few times trying to do that for losses against KC and it happened a lot during the season as well. Gronk won most of those matchups yesterday, and that is very very hard to find.  

 

Gronk might be the most complete TE to ever play the game.  He has no weakness.  He is exceptional at everything.

Turk, we are having the same brain here.  I listened early morning the wrap up last night and the MTC guys on NFLR stated one of Gronks nice add, is exactly what you said.  This also then allows Brate who is awesome to be the pass catching guy, and then after Gronk takes the initial add block, he can step forward and be the release for Brady in short yardage and he gets a ton of YAC.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I agree.  It’s hard to say last night that the Bucs didn’t have a solid running game, good O Line, and excellent TE’s.  The pats, yes, but that’s a reason why Brady is here (sorry I’m in Tampa).  Here he came into a very good O Line, Evans, Godwin, AB, Miller, Brate, and Gronk.  Let that talent and of course Brady is going to be good.  BB let that part of the game go, and Brady said enough.  The Bucs were the #1 rushing defense, and improved consecutively throughout the year in the secondary.  Those guys are young and they improved tremendously throughout the year.

 

 

Brady never had that much talent on Offense at one time with NE.  Still won 6 rings though.

[Figster]

9 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

It's hard to overestimate the impact he had on them as a leader though. Getting them to realize they can win it it all and staying focused enough to do it, not getting complacent after each achievement including the huge upset in the NFC championship.

 

This wasn't the Giants squeaking by the Pats twice.

 

Defense AND excellently opportunistic offense won this game, in a blowout.

 

 

This post is for anyone who doesn't understand why Tom Brady is Superbowl MVP.

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

It's hard to overestimate the impact he had on them as a leader though. Getting them to realize they can win it it all and staying focused enough to do it, not getting complacent after each achievement including the huge upset in the NFC championship.

 

This wasn't the Giants squeaking by the Pats twice.

 

Defense AND excellently opportunistic offense won this game, in a blowout.

 

 

 

 

Huge upset?

 

They were only +160/+3.5

[Buffalo Ballin]

Great defense wins championships. Always.

 

Even Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon got rings and they're not all time great QBs.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Great defense wins championships. Always.

 

Even Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon got rings and they're not all time great QBs.

The niners defense was much better than KCs last year.  

[Figster]

17 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Great defense wins championships. Always.

 

Even Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon got rings and they're not all time great QBs.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle IMO. Special teams can also play a vital role in a football teams victory IMO. So you have 3 aspects of the game to consider IMO. Generally speaking to make the playoffs I think most teams are at the very least above average in at least two out of the 3. Sufficient in the 3rd. Most of the advancing teams in the playoffs are going to be good in all 3 phases of the game and to continue advancing probably going to be great on one side of the football IMO. Or very good in all 3 and well balanced between all 3 in coordination with each other IMO.

 

So to me the world champs can come in differrent forms IMO. I think when you have a upper echelon defensive guru on one side of the football. A franchise QB and good OC on the other anythings possible. If you have the GOAT on one side of the football. Upper echelon defensive guru on the other, well, Tom Brady and 7 Championships... 

 

Regardless of who you may have wanted to win the Superbowl. I hope everyone who enjoys football realizes the history in the making we are all witnessing in real time. I think the game of football this season gave us all a little break from reality when we really needed it most in my humble opinion.

 

Thank you NFL, way to finish the show...

 

Well done...

Edited February 9, 2021 by Figster

[WideNine]

It is not one or the other.

 

The defense continued to stop KC and that gave TB more confidence on offense. They did not have to press and could continue to mix run and pass.

 

The offense made sure they rewarded the defense by sustaining drives and scoring points.

 

Complimentary football.

 

Brady did not have to play great and his rather pedestrians QB stats back up that argument.

 

However, he is horribly efficient and generally does not make mistakes that will tilt the field and put his defense in a bad position, or take available points off the board.

 

He will throw it away, or just lay on a fumbled snap, or turf the ball at a covered receiver's feet. He does not try to do things that can turn small miscues into momentum changing mistakes.

 

TB's offensive line kept his uniform clean and their running game either moved the chains or helped keep them in manageable down & distance situations allowing them more playbook options.

 

When in striking distance they put up TD's not FGs.

 

Brady does not accomplish this with most teams out there. It is no fluke that he chose Tampa Bay. They had a loaded roster and were just missing that field general behind center.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Great, high fireworks offenses really seem to struggle in the SB lately.

 

Even last year, KC was held down for 3/4 of the game until Mahomes connected with Hill on a ridiculous low % play that if it didn't work would have been game. 

 

I think part of it is that "fancy offenses" tense up when it doesn't go well. They are used to everything working, and when it doesn't they get tight. 

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Great, high fireworks offenses really seem to struggle in the SB lately.

 

Even last year, KC was held down for 3/4 of the game until Mahomes connected with Hill on a ridiculous low % play that if it didn't work would have been game. 

 

I think part of it is that "fancy offenses" tense up when it doesn't go well. They are used to everything working, and when it doesn't they get tight. 

Get tight or try to force the issue. Andy Reid has a good run game and could have used it more. Perhaps part of it is Mahomes is still a young gun like Allen. Wants to make the big throw everyone is in awww of while Tom Brady on the other hand, is content to hand the ball of, manage the game to his best capabilities. Win in the process. Allens smart, he's watching it all, I'm sure he gets it.

 

Buffalo will climb its way back... 

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, Figster said:

Get tight or try to force the issue. Andy Reid has a good run game and could have used it more. Perhaps part of it is Mahomes is still a young gun like Allen. Wants to make the big throw everyone is in awww of while Tom Brady on the other hand, is content to hand the ball of, manage the game to his best capabilities. Win in the process. Allens smart, he's watching it all, I'm sure he gets it.

 

Buffalo will climb its way back... 

 

Brady is someone Allen studies and looks up to. You can already see it in his game. Be smart, survive. 

 

Allen has learned to take the small stuff this season, and look what it did for the entire offense. 

[dave mcbride]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:11 AM, NewEra said:

Zero TDs given up by Brady’s defenses in his last two Super Bowl wins.  Let that sink in.  

 

He’s the GOAT, no question...but his defenses led him to his last two rings and his first.  The Bucs DL deserved the MVP last night 💯 

 

 

 

I have NO love for Brady, but he had a 125.8 rating that should have been higher given the dropped TD pass by the lineman in the EZ. He should have had 4 TD throws.

[WideNine]

15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Great, high fireworks offenses really seem to struggle in the SB lately.

 

Even last year, KC was held down for 3/4 of the game until Mahomes connected with Hill on a ridiculous low % play that if it didn't work would have been game. 

 

I think part of it is that "fancy offenses" tense up when it doesn't go well. They are used to everything working, and when it doesn't they get tight. 

 

I think if you look over the history of SB wins you will find that it favors teams that have balanced efficiency on offense and have strong defenses - there are always statistical outliers.

 

By offensive balance, I am not thinking 50/50 run/pass but the ability to successfully take what defenses are giving up - it's efficiency. If efficiency dictates calling more passes because that is what the defense is giving up, then you pass more. The key is effective efficiency. If a team keeps only 4 d-linemen and one LB in the box and you cannot run against it - you are not efficiently running and they can cheat towards coverage all day and take away your passing efficiency as well. Queue the fat lady.

 

By strong defense I mean defenses that do not have to rob Peter to pay Paul. Defenses that do not have to sacrifice coverage to stop the run, or sacrifice stopping the run to effectively pressure and cover receivers.

 

Our coaches did a good job this year maximizing our strengths and covering up for a lot of our weaknesses over the course of an injury-plagued season, but when playing the best teams you can't slap enough lipstick on the pig; They will always expose you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

I for one and happy that Brady is coming back.

 

Gives more teams and players a chance to build their legacies with wins over him. 

[without a drought]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:14 AM, Mr. WEO said:

That and his 3 TDs in the first half.

Don't mention the touchdowns, you're ruining everything.

[Mango]

This is pretty drastic. As much as we want it to be over, Tom looked pretty good on Sunday. When you say a defense carried a Super Bowl Victory, I am thinking something closer to the 2015 Broncos where Manning completed like 50% of his passes for like 150 yards.

 

Brady in his last 2 Super Bowls was a total of 42/64, 463 yards, 3 TD's, and 1 INT. At worst he has been efficient on two pretty good/well rounded teams. And in both games, that efficiency seems to have been the difference between rings 6/7 and no rings at all. And that stone cold efficiency/consistency is what makes Brady the GOAT. He is an accurate passer with the right stuff between the ears, who hardly ever waivers in performance. There are 100 other QB's with higher highs, that if they could hold a higher/more steady midline, would be just as good or better than TB. 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I have NO love for Brady, but he had a 125.8 rating that should have been higher given the dropped TD pass by the lineman in the EZ. He should have had 4 TD throws.

 

Being fair, I can see the argument that the refs took a KC Int off the board that probably should have stood. The receiver was initiating as much if not more of the contact as the defender.

 

That led to one of those TDs and had it stood it would have put a dent in that QBR storyline.

 

His numbers could have easily changed to something more like 20 of 29 passing for perhaps less than 200 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, and 1 Sack.

 

Not exactly world-beating, but those kind of officiating judgement calls happen and as an opposing team you have to rise above them, and as an offense take advantage of them.

 

The Bucs did and KC didn't.

 

 

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:11 PM, NewEra said:

Zero TDs given up by Brady’s defenses in his last two Super Bowl wins.  Let that sink in.  

 

He’s the GOAT, no question...but his defenses led him to his last two rings and his first.  The Bucs DL deserved the MVP last night 💯 

 

 

 

Looking at the Super Bowl games - in isolation - is nearly always greatly misleading. 

 

Individual games are deeply affected by matchups, but bad bounces, by the way the refs call pass interference, by stuff.

 

The 2018 Patriots were the 21st ranked D. They were better than that, Belichick's always been a bend-but-don't-break guy, but they weren't great.

 

And this year's Bucs were a very good defense but not elite. Not sensational at 6th.

 

I don't especially buy Brady as the GOAT, it's not all that obvious how to compare guys like Unitas, like Otto Graham to modern guys, but he's certainly one of the best of all time. Unfortunately. Very glad to get him out of the division.

[Southern_Bills]

Devin White was the true MVP, but I'm not here to knock Brady. 

[Success]

I've gone through all of the stages with Brady, and arrived at acceptance. It's sort of liberating.

 

10 Super Bowls.  It's an impossible achievement.

 

[Thurman#1]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:33 AM, WideNine said:

 

I think if you look over the history of SB wins you will find that it favors teams that have balanced efficiency on offense and have strong defenses - there are always statistical outliers.

 

By offensive balance, I am not thinking 50/50 run/pass but the ability to successfully take what defenses are giving up - it's efficiency. If efficiency dictates calling more passes because that is what the defense is giving up, then you pass more. The key is effective efficiency. If a team keeps only 4 d-linemen and one LB in the box and you cannot run against it - you are not efficiently running and they can cheat towards coverage all day and take away your passing efficiency as well. Queue the fat lady.

 

By strong defense I mean defenses that do not have to rob Peter to pay Paul. Defenses that do not have to sacrifice coverage to stop the run, or sacrifice stopping the run to effectively pressure and cover receivers.

 

Our coaches did a good job this year maximizing our strengths and covering up for a lot of our weaknesses over the course of an injury-plagued season, but when playing the best teams you can't slap enough lipstick on the pig; They will always expose you.

 

 

 

After the first six games our defense played well even against the good teams, doing very well against Arizona (minus the lucky INT), the Steelers, the Niners who were playing really well at that time ...

 

Not good enough to beat KC, of course, but still very good. Despite some very real DL problems, particularly Lotulelei's optout and the lack of a pass rusher on the other side. 

 

A lot of the success that the Tampa defense had may well have come down to the Chiefs OL injuries. It would have been interesting to see what happened if they'd been healthy. I'm happier to see KC lose, though.

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

After the first six games our defense played well even against the good teams, doing very well against Arizona (minus the lucky INT), the Steelers, the Niners who were playing really well at that time ...

 

A lot of the success that the Tampa defense had may well have come down to the Chiefs OL injuries. It would have been interesting to see what happened if they'd been healthy. I'm happier to see KC lose, though.

 

I know they lost their starting LT and that did hurt them, but much of the pressure seemed to come right up the middle on them from guard to guard.

 

I don't think those were guys they lost playing us. 

 

Tampa was more aggressive and yet felt that they could stop most of the runs with their front 4 and get pressure.

 

We can't do that with our front 4, we have to go man and bring extra rushers to try to create pressure, but our guys playing man don't match up with the better skill guys.

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

42 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I know they lost their starting LT and that did hurt them, but much of the pressure seemed to come right up the middle on them from guard to guard.

 

I don't think those were guys they lost playing us. 

 

Tampa was more aggressive and yet felt that they could stop most of the runs with their front 4 and get pressure.

 

We can't do that with our front 4, we have to go man and bring extra rushers to try to create pressure, but our guys playing man don't match up with the better skill guys.

 

 

 

The Chiefs had "an offensive line that was missing four starters — right guard Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, who opted out before the season, along with left guard Kelechi Osemele, right tackle Mitchell Schwartz and left tackle Eric Fisher, who were lost to injuries. Lucas Niang, a third-round offensive line draft pick from TCU, also opted out before the season."

 

https://www.kshb.com/sports/road-to-repeat/chiefs-offensive-never-gets-untracked-in-super-bowl-lv-loss

 

Their OL problems were huge in this game.

 

And when your starting OTs are gone, it puts more pressure on your guards, and nobody can help them the way they could if the tackles weren't needing help with the outside rush. 

 

And for whatever reason, Mahomes was moving well against us, but limping and limited against the Bucs. That made a difference too, made it easier for the Bucs D.

 

 

 

You say the Chiefs were stopping the run with their front four, and that's not true, it was their front seven. And we saw Mathieu make a bunch of tackles on run plays in that game. And we did that as well, though not as efficiently as the Bucs did. And again, losing Lotulelei was huge. The rest of our front four were smaller guys. People have screamed and moaned about Lotulelei for years here, because they didn't get his role in the defense. We saw this year how much it affected the LBs with Star not in there.

 

 

 

I'm not saying our DL is OK and doesn't need work. Not at all. I am saying that we need another pass rusher, at least, and that getting Lotulelei back will help, and that the Bucs DL was in a much better situation with the extra tackle out and with Mahomes not as able to move.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Looking at the Super Bowl games - in isolation - is nearly always greatly misleading. 

 

Individual games are deeply affected by matchups, but bad bounces, by the way the refs call pass interference, by stuff.

 

The 2018 Patriots were the 21st ranked D. They were better than that, Belichick's always been a bend-but-don't-break guy, but they weren't great.

 

And this year's Bucs were a very good defense but not elite. Not sensational at 6th.

 

I don't especially buy Brady as the GOAT, it's not all that obvious how to compare guys like Unitas, like Otto Graham to modern guys, but he's certainly one of the best of all time. Unfortunately. Very glad to get him out of the division.

I have a different perspective on Graham.  He competed against 10-12 teams in his 10 year career and the players weren’t nearly as good.  Similar to Bill Russell.  Both all time greats, but I wouldn’t classify either as the greatest, even though they won championships at the highest rate. 
 

unitas played the majority of his career against 12-14 teams. 4 championships in 17 years. 
 

When I look at Brady play, he’s not the most talented QB to play the game.  He’s not the “best QB I’ve ever seen”, but he’s the greatest qb ever based on winning.  
 

Whether or not this is true or not, idk, but I’ve always separated the greatest and the best I’ve ever seen.  There isn’t a greatest player I’ve ever seen. The greatest is the player with the most accomplishments and most highly decorated.  The best, is the most talented player I’ve ever seen.

 

for example, I know most disagree with this statement, but in his prime, I view Adrian Peterson as the best RB I’ve ever seen.  No one rb had his combination of power, speed and make you miss imo.  Jim Brown, I suppose, but the defenders he was playing against pale in comparison to the players AD was against physically.  Either way, I didn’t watch Jim Brown play, as I was born in 74, so he couldn’t be the “best I’ve ever seen”, because I didn’t really see him.

 

Brady, isn’t the best QB I’ve ever seen, I think I’d give that distinction to Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers at their best.  Maybe Montana.  Mahomes has done stuff that puts him up there, but he needs more time. Allen has done things to make me think he could eventually be the best.  Brady is the greatest imo, based on what he’s accomplished and I don’t think it’s even a debate anymore.  Jmo of course.  What Graham accomplished was special, but being that there were only 10-12 teams (and the players weren’t nearly as good) changes the dynamics of the situation.  
 

different strokes for different folks, but that’s how I see the greatest and best debate.  Two different conversations.  I realize many others disagree with this.

7 hours ago, WideNine said:

I know they lost their starting LT and that did hurt them, but much of the pressure seemed to come right up the middle on them from guard to guard.

 

I don't think those were guys they lost playing us. 

 

Tampa was more aggressive and yet felt that they could stop most of the runs with their front 4 and get pressure.

 

We can't do that with our front 4, we have to go man and bring extra rushers to try to create pressure, but our guys playing man don't match up with the better skill guys.

 

 

 

Shaq barrett had ELEVEN pressure.....rushing from the end.

[WideNine]

 

Quote

Shaq barrett had ELEVEN pressure.....rushing from the end.

 

 

Folks keep missing the point that your Ends get more pressure when the QB has no pocket to step up into.

 

With Suh and Vea able to crush the pocket Mahomes had to escape and slide left and right, where they pressured and hemmed him in well.

 

Suh they also moved outside on plays and he was dominant there too.

 

Mahomes struggles the most against pressure sans blitz. He knows exactly where to go with the ball when teams send the extra rusher.

 

TB was able to pressure with their front 4 and contain the gap runs, their secondary harassed Kelce and bracketed Hill.

 

I do think Barrett had a heck of a game, and it is kind of crappy how the Bucs treated him...trying to franchise him as a linebacker when they were using him as a DE.

 

I think he only signed a 1 year deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by WideNine