Big Gun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, FireChans said: Cam was absolutely a star at his peak. He also had 20 TD’s to 10 INT’s last season. How many back up QB’s in the NFL put up 20 TD’s on offense on that Pats roster? Is Cam still great? No. Is Cam probably one of the best backups in the NFL? Absolutely. The guy passed for 5 TD through 15 games then had 3 in the last game against the Jets to get to the grand total of 8 passing TD for the year against 10 ints. Thats worse than backup bad, that's out of the league bad. Cams done, he stinks, always has. Edited February 1, 2021 by Big Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Big Gun said: The guy passed for 5 TD through 15 games then had 3 in the last game against the Jets to get to the grand total of 8 passing TD for the year against 10 ints. Thats worse than backup bad, that's out of the league bad. Cams done, he stinks, always has. He had 20 total TDs. 12 rushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 So...backup RB it is. Heck maybe starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: So...backup RB it is. Heck maybe starting. He plays QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, FireChans said: He plays QB. Not for much longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 10 hours ago, H2o said: Because if you ever watched Pennington play you would know he made up for his lack of arm strength with his ability to read a defense then get the ball out with timing. He did complete 66% of his passes for his career despite having a noodle arm, especially after the shoulder surgeries. Cam has relied on his legs most of his career and you could tell that the mental aspect was giving him some trouble in NE. His shoulder injury has changed his abilities. When your body starts breaking down then it is your wits that carry you on. I have never seen Cam be one to dissect a defense. So Pennington was the more 'cerebral' QB, while Newton was more athletic? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 He really looked labored in his throwing motion last year I'm not sure he could even help a QB needy team right now. Maybe as a backup on the Ravens so he could run the ball instead of throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 10 hours ago, H2o said: Cam is washed up. His arm looks done. Imo he has become Chad Pennington without the brains. Not sure why people cannot understand that Cams arm is done and he is a headcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: Not sure why people cannot understand that Cams arm is done and he is a headcase. His arm looks shot, not sure how he is a headcase. Heard nothing but great things from his teammates in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 18 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: IMO injuries aren't the problem with Cam's throwing. I'd argue it's more about mechanical problems and a relative lack of concentration on the fundamentals of the motion (not to even mention the lack of good players around him on offense). He's always gone in and out of tune with his motion, as Chris Simms has mentioned. He's never been all about throwing, and he's always had accuracy problems. He had games this year where his throwing looked pretty good. Then some where it looked awful. I think his injuries would sooner affect his legs and his running, the area that's still his strong point. I share your worry about Josh's long-term health if he keeps running. I think he's going to start sliding more and more as he grows older and cannier. We're seeing it already. he’s been incredibly lazy with his mechanics, and inconsistent with his self care. I’m hoping josh will age better, but you never know what any Sunday will bring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Cam was never a great passer. He had a big arm, but couldn't throw with accuracy or touch. He also is nothing special at reading defenses or dissecting coverages. He has relied on his amazing athletic abilities and now really done much of anything to improve as a QB. He isn't driven like Josh Allen. He is completely full of himself and blames everyone else for his own failures. Injuries are just a small part of the problem with he him. In short, he is nothing like Josh Allen. Allen isn't the best QB in the NFL, but he works as hard as anyone and knows how to improve. He is drive. To succeed. He is supremely gifted physically but doesn't rely on that. He is constantly trying to get better. Newton has never been like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) On 2/1/2021 at 6:41 PM, FireChans said: He had 20 total TDs. 12 rushing. So what, Cam still stinks! Here are is comps, backups that did equal to or better than in far less games than Cam. Newton had 5 TD passes up until game 16 where he had 3 more against the Jets to get to the grand total of 8 TD passes in 16 games. Cam had 5 TD passes through 15 games, let that sink in, and ask yourself if that is good and the QB you would want leading your passing attack! Lock had 19 TDs 16 pass 3 rush in 13 games Wentz had 21 TDs 16 pass 5 rush in 12 games Minshew had 17 TDs 16 pass 1 rush in 9 games Trubisky had 17 TDs 16 pass 1 rush in 10 games Bridgewater had 20 TDs 15 pass 5 rush in 15 games Edited February 2, 2021 by Big Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 2/1/2021 at 8:21 AM, prissythecat said: The guy was a runner who could throw . Never was really a passer as evidenced by career completion rate below 60% and passer rating in the 80s. Cam is mediocre as per Colin Cowherd Same with L Jackson. Keep hearing how Baltimore needs to build the offense around him get him a true #1 WR, "hey look at the difference in made in Buffalo!" A #1 WR isn't going to help when often throwing it into the ground. Granted you could have said the same about Allen a year ago, he did improve so maybe Jackson can too. but sense Jackson enjoys being more of a running QB so may not ever improve on the throwing part. Whereas I think Allen more wants to be the gunslinger which does have some risks, but at least they are risks within the normal QB profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Josh only overran this last year in the playoffs when the world championship was on the line. He certainly toned it down during the regular season. I’m ok with him running it in the playoffs if it’s our only chance to survive. Which it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 2/1/2021 at 5:24 AM, buffalo2218 said: The comparison is flawed in terms of character. Newton has always been a me first diva. If anything, Allen is more like Elway than anything like Newton. Look where Newton is today. A broke down and out clown that’s trying to be like Dennis Rodman with his insane asylum fashion. Allen cares far more for the game and is too determined to be the best he can be to be compared to Newton So is you assessment based on player interviews and actual knowledge, or is it because you don’t like his fashion sense or that he didn’t seemingly hustle after a fumble in his SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 13 hours ago, MJS said: Cam was never a great passer. He had a big arm, but couldn't throw with accuracy or touch. He also is nothing special at reading defenses or dissecting coverages. He has relied on his amazing athletic abilities and now really done much of anything to improve as a QB. He isn't driven like Josh Allen. He is completely full of himself and blames everyone else for his own failures. Injuries are just a small part of the problem with he him. In short, he is nothing like Josh Allen. Allen isn't the best QB in the NFL, but he works as hard as anyone and knows how to improve. He is drive. To succeed. He is supremely gifted physically but doesn't rely on that. He is constantly trying to get better. Newton has never been like that. I don't see how Cam had the career that he had if this is true. What does seem to be the case is that he suffered serious injuries to his throwing shoulder and perhaps had bad advice around managing/rehabbing from them (or good advice he didn't take) - as did Andrew Luck. I personally find this sad because he set league passing records in more than one season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't see how Cam had the career that he had if this is true. What does seem to be the case is that he suffered serious injuries to his throwing shoulder and perhaps had bad advice around managing/rehabbing from them (or good advice he didn't take) - as did Andrew Luck. I personally find this sad because he set league passing records in more than one season. He was supremely gifted physically. I don't care for him, personally. I used to like him until I discovered how narcissistic he is. Those joint practices with the Panthers really made me dislike him with how cocky he was. And then he didn't even play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 17 hours ago, klos63 said: His arm looks shot, not sure how he is a headcase. Heard nothing but great things from his teammates in NE. Well thats good- hopefully while his football career winds down he can have another meaningful career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 This thread wasn't about Cam Newton's character vs Josh Allen's or who's work ethic is better. It's also not about not wanting Josh to never run again. Newton was the NFL League MVP in 2015! Took the Carolina Panthers to a Super Bowl with a franchise record, 15-1 record. "Supercam" is his nickname after he won the Heisman trophy and won 2x BCS National Championship. Also won, Maxwell award, Walter Camp award, Davy O'Brian award, Manning award, AP college football player of the year, First team all American, First team all SEC award. Went to the NFL and won NFL rookie of the year! NFL Offensive player of the year! First team All-pro! 3x pro bowler! Cam Newton was the hottest QB in the NFL back in the day. First NFL rookie QB to throw for 4000 yards in a season! * Just note, If Carolina had passed on him #1 overall in the 2011 draft, he would have been a Buffalo Bill @ #3 overall. 6'5'' 245lbs, sound familiar? This thread was about not wanting to see the Buffalo Bills, who have an "elite pocket passer" in Josh Allen, who threw for 4544 yards, 37 TDs, 10 INTs in 2020. Take his team to a 13-3 season and be the teams leading rusher in many games. Not with a 69.2% completion percentage! That completion percentage would have been much higher had the 2020 Buffalo Bills run the ball better and not put the entire game on the QB's shoulders most of the time. Wanna know about Cam Newton's injury history? Sep 12, 2019 NFL Pedal Lisfranc Sprain Newton aggravated a left foot injury in the Week 2 loss to Buccaneers. He missed the rest of the regular season. Oct 21, 2018 NFL Shoulder Newton played through the injury until the final 2 weeks, when Carolina shut him down. Newton underwent surgery on January 24. Jan 7, 2018 NFL Knee Strain Grade 1Newton suffered ligament and cartilage damage, as well as extensive swelling. He avoided surgery. Dec 11, 2016 NFL Shoulder Rotator Cuff Tear Newton eventually underwent surgery on March 30, 2017. Oct 2, 2016 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Newton took a hard hit to the head during Week 4 action. Dec 9, 2014 NFL Back Vertebral Fracture Newton endured two transverse process fractures in his lower back in a car accident. Aug 22, 2014 NFL Chest Rib Fracture Newton suffered a fractured rib in a preseason game. He missed the first game of the regular season as a result. Jan 12, 2014 NFL Pedal Ankle Ligament Tear Grade 3 The procedure was designed to tighten ligaments in Newton's left ankle and give him more range of motion. Surgery was on March 19, 2014. Dec 30, 2012 NFL Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1Newton suffered a left ankle sprain against the Saints that was considered minor. Aug 30, 2008 Non-NFL Pedal Ankle Sprain Grade 2 During his sophomore season, Newton played in the season opener against Hawaii but suffered an ankle injury. He then took a medical redshirt. So, Yeah! Newton is a high risk injury waiting to happen, head, shoulder, ribs, knee, foot. The Buffalo Bills shouldn't want to see their franchise QB be the teams leading rusher ever again! I'd rather see Brian Daboll out there on the field toting the ball tucked under his beer belly! Let "Dabs" take the hits and injuries and keep Josh in a clean pocket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Big Gun said: So what, Cam still stinks! Here are is comps, backups that did equal to or better than in far less games than Cam. Newton had 5 TD passes up until game 16 where he had 3 more against the Jets to get to the grand total of 8 TD passes in 16 games. Cam had 5 TD passes through 15 games, let that sink in, and ask yourself if that is good and the QB you would want leading your passing attack! Lock had 19 TDs 16 pass 3 rush in 13 games Wentz had 21 TDs 16 pass 5 rush in 12 games Minshew had 17 TDs 16 pass 1 rush in 9 games Trubisky had 17 TDs 16 pass 1 rush in 10 games Bridgewater had 20 TDs 15 pass 5 rush in 15 games I would take every single one of those guys as backups lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Take a long hard look at the 2020 Green Bay Packers. A pass heavy spread offense? The #1 offense points scored, #5 in yards. #24 in passing, yet #9 in passing yards. 12th in rushing attempts, #8 in rushing yards. Aaron Rodgers 4299 yards passing, 48 TDs, 5 INTs. RB Aaron Jones 201 rush attempts, 1104 rush yards, 9 TDs. The 2020 Packers became much more efficient in running play action passing. Rodgers went from a 91.3 passer rating to 135.9 off play action drop backs. The Packers have also had a much better "clean pocket" for Rodgers that went from 6 percent in 2019 to 2.8 in 2020. Aaron Rodgers 62.0% completion percentage in 2019. Rodgers with a 70.7% completion percentage in 2020. The tight end position with Robert Tonyan over Jimmy Graham who caught 88% of the passes thrown his way. The point here is the Packers are utilizing the run game with play action to run a more balanced offensive passing attack. Three receivers, two RBs and a TE. Running the ball more actually helped the passing game. *One of the primary reasons play-action passing works so well is that players, linebackers in particular, are coached at a young age to stop the run at all costs. When they see a quarterback hand the ball off, the instinct has been instilled to stop the run. Even if it creates only a second of hesitation when an offense uses play-action, it could put the defender out of position. Analytics shows that using play-action heavily is wise as it can prop up a quarterback and the passing game overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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