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Doug Whaley Criticizes Sean McDermott’s Game Management vs Chiefs


JohnNord
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I don't view Whaley's tenure in a favorable light, but that doesn't mean he can't comment on anything. 

 

Also, Sean McDermott has criticized Sean McDermott's game management so it's not Whaley's saying something crazy either. 

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1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

If you kick the FG you probably lose.

If you go for it and don't make it, you probably lose.

If you go for it and score the TD you've got a shot.

 

1 of those 3 decisions gives you a chance to win the game. Kicking a FG and going 4 and out are pretty much the same thing. You need to score 30+ to be in the game at the end, so unless you score 10 FGs you aren't getting there with 3's. 

I agree and I also think his aggressive in game coaching on 4th down (before this game) improved this teams output alot. 

Just now, jeremy2020 said:

I don't view Whaley's tenure in a favorable light, but that doesn't mean he can't comment on anything. 

 

Also, Sean McDermott has criticized Sean McDermott's game management so it's not Whaley's saying something crazy either. 

I think it's great that Mcdermott has been questioning of some of his own decisions, he didnt sound defensive when asked in his end of season presser which I think bodes well. 

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I think McDermott will learn from this. He seems like a very reflective guy who is willing to grow as a HC.

 

Sometimes we forget that coaches, just like players, need to grow to reach their ceiling. 

 

Andy Reid is what a coach reaching his ceiling looks like. For years Reid fell short in the playoffs, largely due to poor coaching decisions. Now he has a super team that seemingly can do whatever it wants. 

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1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I don’t see why anyone would be pissed off at this. He’s 100% right. If you’re mad at this there’s something wrong with you. 

I don’t think anyone is longing for Doug Whaley days but he never picked the coach and we constantly changed schemes not many people would be successful in that situation. Many of the players he drafted were solid parts of Super Bowl teams elsewhere. 


That explains it then.  If you have a favorable opinion of Doug Whaley, then of course it won’t bother you. 
 

If you didn’t think he was very good, you’re going to take exception with a person in leadership criticizing the coach who was way more successful.

 

Its like Zay Jones saying that Stefon Diggs is too soft at getting off the LOS.  Same reaction

 

Also you said Doug never picked his coaches?  That’s your speculation but I listen to the podcast and he never has claimed that.  Ty also said that Whaley hired McDermott.  So it appears that isn’t true

10 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I don't view Whaley's tenure in a favorable light, but that doesn't mean he can't comment on anything. 

 

Also, Sean McDermott has criticized Sean McDermott's game management so it's not Whaley's saying something crazy either. 


It doesn’t mean he can’t comment.  Everyone can comments.

 

But you shouldn’t be surprised that fans are giving him push back.  McDermott did what Doug never could in turning around a franchise, so of course fans are going to give him a negative reaction and question his credibility   

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Speaking strictly for myself, it's not that Whaley and Monos sub-par job with the Bills disqualify them from expressing his views.

 

It's just that their past doesn't qualify them as experts I'm intrigued and motivated to tune in to Ty Dunne and listen to, and pointing out they were in the FO of teams while those teams won Superbowls doesn't change that.

 

If the point is to generally discuss the Bills roster and gameplan and coaching approach to the KC game, from what people have said here it doesn't sound as though they added much in the way of new insights or ideas over what McDermott himself has said in his presser, and less than pundits like Chris Simms or bloggers like Cover1 have offered.

I understand and appreciate your view and you make a cogent argument. My question was related to an undercurrent of dislike for Whaley because he did not succeed as a GM for the Bills. As you did, its fair to questions his credentials as a game strategy evaluator but simply dismissing his views due to his job performance is not the right way to look at it. 

Imo, if Whaley had prioritized and taken a good QB early in his tenure, his stay with the Bills would have been viewed far more sympathetically. Beane has built a good team overall but truth be told, he has not really hit on many of his high picks. As examples, the performances from Oliver, Epenesa, Knox, Singletary have been underwhelming related to where they were picked. I dont want to hijack this thread in that direction but wanted to make a point that picking a good QB covers up for a lot of other draft mistakes

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36 minutes ago, JohnNord said:


That explains it then.  If you have a favorable opinion of Doug Whaley, then of course it won’t bother you. 
 

If you didn’t think he was very good, you’re going to take exception with a person in leadership criticizing the coach who was way more successful.

 

Its like Zay Jones saying that Stefon Diggs is too soft at getting off the LOS.  Same reaction

 

Also you said Doug never picked his coaches?  That’s your speculation but I listen to the podcast and he never has claimed that.  Ty also said that Whaley hired McDermott.  So it appears that isn’t true


It doesn’t mean he can’t comment.  Everyone can comments.

 

But you shouldn’t be surprised that fans are giving him push back.  McDermott did what Doug never could in turning around a franchise, so of course fans are going to give him a negative reaction and question his credibility   

The same people attacking Doug Whaley in this thread would have endlessly defended and supported any decision he would have made if he were still the GM of the Bills.

 

A certain % of the people here have this gang warfare territory type thing going on, where nothing bad can be said of current Bills employees, ever.  Once they leave, they immediately transition into material for criticism.  

 

Look at how this board viewed EJ, Tyrod, Kiko Alonso, and Sammy Watkins to name a few, both while on the roster and after they left it.


Night and day support followed by joking and disrespect.

 

It's odd.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The same people attacking Doug Whaley in this thread would have endlessly defended and supported any decision he would have made if he were still the GM of the Bills.

 

A certain % of the people here have this gang warfare territory type thing going on, where nothing bad can be said of current Bills employees, ever.  Once they leave, they immediately transition into material for criticism.  

 

Look at how this board viewed EJ, Tyrod, Kiko Alonso, and Sammy Watkins to name a few, both while on the roster and after they left it.


Night and day support followed by joking and disrespect.

 

It's odd.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes and no. I would add that we've also seen plenty of criticism doled out to current roster/coaches (e.g., fire Daboll threads during 2018-19 in which full disclosure I also participated in) that is solely based on what we see on the field. Even now, guys like Singletary and Edmunds routinely get called out by a sizable number around here, even if they are also defended. Conversely, Gilmore would be an example of a former player who's still sought after around here whenever the discussion of opposite corner from Tre comes up...  

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5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The same people attacking Doug Whaley in this thread would have endlessly defended and supported any decision he would have made if he were still the GM of the Bills.

 

A certain % of the people here have this gang warfare territory type thing going on, where nothing bad can be said of current Bills employees, ever.  Once they leave, they immediately transition into material for criticism.  

 

Look at how this board viewed EJ, Tyrod, Kiko Alonso, and Sammy Watkins to name a few, both while on the roster and after they left it.


Night and day support followed by joking and disrespect.

 

It's odd.

 

 

 

 

 

 
I completely disagree.  At one point fans were ok with Whaley.  They were also ok with Rex Ryan.  Plans change.  Losing does that.

 

By the end of 2016 the majority of the Bills fan base were frustrated and soured on Whaley as GM.  I don’t remember many shedding tears when he was gone, though there were some supporters.

 

Of course, if you don’t think he was very good himself, you’ll take offense to Whaley criticizing someone who was better than him 

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27 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I understand and appreciate your view and you make a cogent argument. My question was related to an undercurrent of dislike for Whaley because he did not succeed as a GM for the Bills. As you did, its fair to questions his credentials as a game strategy evaluator but simply dismissing his views due to his job performance is not the right way to look at it. 

Imo, if Whaley had prioritized and taken a good QB early in his tenure, his stay with the Bills would have been viewed far more sympathetically. Beane has built a good team overall but truth be told, he has not really hit on many of his high picks. As examples, the performances from Oliver, Epenesa, Knox, Singletary have been underwhelming related to where they were picked. I dont want to hijack this thread in that direction but wanted to make a point that picking a good QB covers up for a lot of other draft mistakes

^^^Yep. That's a point than many here have made from Day 1 of this regime--hit on QB, your ticket's been punched. Whiff on QB, but hit on everything else? There's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out...and rightly so, as that's the single greatest individual factor to determine franchise staying power/success, imho. 

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31 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

 

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I understand and appreciate your view and you make a cogent argument. My question was related to an undercurrent of dislike for Whaley because he did not succeed as a GM for the Bills. As you did, its fair to questions his credentials as a game strategy evaluator but simply dismissing his views due to his job performance is not the right way to look at it. 

Imo, if Whaley had prioritized and taken a good QB early in his tenure, his stay with the Bills would have been viewed far more sympathetically. Beane has built a good team overall but truth be told, he has not really hit on many of his high picks. As examples, the performances from Oliver, Epenesa, Knox, Singletary have been underwhelming related to where they were picked. I dont want to hijack this thread in that direction but wanted to make a point that picking a good QB covers up for a lot of other draft mistakes


I think you are being far too generous to Whaley.  First off a successful GM does more than draft players.  It’s about working with a coach and building a vision and then an actual team.  Whaley failed at all of this.  
 

While you can question whether “hit” on picks or not, take a look at the draft record of Beane’s first 2 drafts vs Whaley’s 3 drafts.  His picks were not home runs, but they were far better than Whaley.  
 

We’ve known for decades that QB is a team’s biggest priority.  This is why Beane took a risk to get Allen and then developed a plan to see him grow.  
 

Whaley did prioritize QB - he just made a terrible choice and WHO he prioritized.  Then rather than cutting he doubled down on his bad choice and it likely cost him his job in the end.  
 

Let’s call a spade, a spade here.  Whaley was not a very good GM

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2 hours ago, JohnNord said:


That explains it then.  If you have a favorable opinion of Doug Whaley, then of course it won’t bother you. 
 

If you didn’t think he was very good, you’re going to take exception with a person in leadership criticizing the coach who was way more successful.

 

Its like Zay Jones saying that Stefon Diggs is too soft at getting off the LOS.  Same reaction

 

Also you said Doug never picked his coaches?  That’s your speculation but I listen to the podcast and he never has claimed that.  Ty also said that Whaley hired McDermott.  So it appears that isn’t true


It doesn’t mean he can’t comment.  Everyone can comments.

 

But you shouldn’t be surprised that fans are giving him push back.  McDermott did what Doug never could in turning around a franchise, so of course fans are going to give him a negative reaction and question his credibility   

If someone is providing accurate criticism it doesn’t matter if it’s a former GM or the janitor at the local high school. If it’s right, it’s right. It’s stupid to get mad at someone for being right. Also I’m not a Whaley fan

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19 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Disagree.... he obviously didn’t have a good feel for the game or was coaching scared. The Bills defense could not stop the Chiefs. They needed TDS to keep pace. A FG wasn’t going to do much there. 

gotta love treating it as 100% guaranteed that the Bills would have scored a TD, then using that benchmark to say taking the FG was stupid

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3 minutes ago, spartacus said:

gotta love treating it as 100% guaranteed that the Bills would have scored a TD, then using that benchmark to say taking the FG was stupid

That’s not my point but ok..... you needed to be aggressive if you wanted any shot to beat Mahomes and that offense, specifically when your defense couldn’t stop anything at that point. 
 

I said it as soon as he sent the FG unit out there it was a mistake. You go for the TD and if you don’t get it well then oh well at least you went down swinging not kicking FGs to save from it being a blow out. 

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19 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

McD’s decision to kick in the first half based on “morale” was absolutely the right one. You could tell the team was shell shocked. They had to get points. I thought it was very astute coaching.
 

The national pundits didn’t see how aggressive he was all year, and how this was a total change from what he normally does— based on his very good instincts of looking at his team at that moment. 
 

The second half decision was too risk averse, as I think McD will now concede. But hindsight is 20/20. If the D had gotten a stop or turnover, it would have probably worked out pretty well. But they didn’t, and we spiraled down. 

I understand at the end of half of kicking FG at end of half after they scored 21 unanswered.  My criticism isn’t around that. It’s the plays before and getting a TD on 1-2-3 down,  second half FG...kicking to 15 being down 24-12 at the time of the kick, I’d go for it and not settle for FGs

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53 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

If someone is providing accurate criticism it doesn’t matter if it’s a former GM or the janitor at the local high school. If it’s right, it’s right. It’s stupid to get mad at someone for being right. Also I’m not a Whaley fan

 

I think someone up thread pretty much called it.  It's not about whether the criticism is justified, it's the context of who you once were and what kind of decisions were made on your watch.

 

Given the game decisions and records made by the coaches Whaley presumably had strong say in hiring, for him to go on the air and publicly criticize the coach we have now, who took us to our first AFC championship game in >25 years, appears unbecoming to some of us. 

 

You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think it makes the above viewpoint stupid.

 

25 minutes ago, spartacus said:

gotta love treating it as 100% guaranteed that the Bills would have scored a TD, then using that benchmark to say taking the FG was stupid

 

Yep.  Whatever happens, if you lose the game there will always be second-guessing.

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49 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

If someone is providing accurate criticism it doesn’t matter if it’s a former GM or the janitor at the local high school. If it’s right, it’s right. It’s stupid to get mad at someone for being right. Also I’m not a Whaley fan


Not really.  If your friend got a new job and the guy who she replaced said something critical, you’d have the same reaction.  I get why fans don’t hear it.   What do you expect them to say?  
 

It’s being critical of the person - not necessarily the message.  If those big decisions were so easy then why didn’t Doug did fail so many?   

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think someone up thread pretty much called it.  It's not about whether the criticism is justified, it's the context of who you once were and what kind of decisions were made on your watch.

 

Given the game decisions and records made by the coaches Whaley presumably had strong say in hiring, for him to go on the air and publicly criticize the coach we have now, who took us to our first AFC championship game in >25 years, appears unbecoming to some of us. 

 

You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think it makes the above viewpoint stupid.

 

 

Yep.  Whatever happens, if you lose the game there will always be second-guessing.


I couldn’t have said it better myself (and I tried really hard too!) 😀

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think someone up thread pretty much called it.  It's not about whether the criticism is justified, it's the context of who you once were and what kind of decisions were made on your watch.

 

Given the game decisions and records made by the coaches Whaley presumably had strong say in hiring, for him to go on the air and publicly criticize the coach we have now, who took us to our first AFC championship game in >25 years, appears unbecoming to some of us. 

 

You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think it makes the above viewpoint stupid.

 

 

Yep.  Whatever happens, if you lose the game there will always be second-guessing.

We will have to disagree on this

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29 minutes ago, spartacus said:

gotta love treating it as 100% guaranteed that the Bills would have scored a TD, then using that benchmark to say taking the FG was stupid


Exactly, it’s also unrealistic to expect that the game would play out exactly as it did if they made those conversions. 

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7 minutes ago, JohnNord said:


Not really.  If your friend got a new job and the guy who she replaced said something critical, you’d have the same reaction.  I get why fans don’t hear it.   What do you expect them to say?  
 

It’s being critical of the person - not necessarily the message.  If those big decisions were so easy then why didn’t Doug did fail so many?   


I couldn’t have said it better myself (and I tried really hard too!)

 I would listen to the advice and look into if it was accurate or not. If it is accurate I would act accordingly. If it wasn’t accurate I would ignore it. People I don’t like are right all the time. It doesn’t change the fact that they’re right. It wouldn’t make sense for me to get mad at what they said.
 

You keep making assumptions that everyone thinks and acts the same way. That’s stupid 

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