Beast Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) The Texans had a rough year on the field and in the front office and he wants to bail. Diva. Edited January 16, 2021 by Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Beast said: The Texans had a rough year on yhe field and in the front office and he wants to bail. Diva. Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He is responsible for the most heart-ripping play the Bills have suffered this century: escaping from a sure sack and improvising a 40 yard play in OT that led to a Texans playoff victory. The qb has a lot more power in this situation than you think. The only position at which NFL players have anything resembling the juice of NBA players is the QB position, especially top ten franchise QBs. He can sit out a year, watch the Texans go 2-14, and then get a new deal for $40 million per. He’s young and that good. Great play. I won’t even say fluke play, definitely great play by him. He still doesn’t scare me at all. As a football fan, I thought that game was garbage. So freakin’ long, and it was like neither team really wanted it. Sooner or later, someone had to make a play, and he did, good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It isn't Watson's cap hit preventing Houston from being competitive. As for signing the contract, yep, that is fair. He could have waited it out but his side made sure it was structured in a certain way too to allow him some flexibility. I agree the leverage is with Houston at this point. Have said that throughout. Also not sure I really think any player should have a view on a GM hire... but they did apparently promise that. Head Coach is different and if I have a franchise QB I am always trying to find a Head Coach that meshes with that. Basically Watson is shining a light to the outside world in saying "Easterby is a problem here and he needs to go." I'd have been perfectly happy for JP or Trent to shine a similar light on some of the disruptive influences who held sway at One Bills Drive in Ralph's later years. Not yet it isn't. And I agree that they shouldn't have told him he'd have a say in hiring the GM and/or HC...and then not followed-through by at least giving him an advanced heads-up. But Easterby is a convenient scapegoat. They have since hired a GM with a good resume and will soon have a new HC who won't also be GM. 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: James Harden had no leverage too. He was under contract. Do we watch the same sports leagues? Disgruntled superstars always win. I don't know, do you? The NBA isn't like the NFL and there the stars actually do run that league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: Not yet it isn't. And I agree that they shouldn't have told him he'd have a say in hiring the GM and/or HC...and then not followed-through by at least giving him an advanced heads-up. But Easterby is a convenient scapegoat. They have since hired a GM with a good resume and will soon have a new HC who won't also be GM. I don't know, do you? The NBA isn't like the NFL and there the stars actually do run that league. Lol we watched AB force his way out of town just last year. Wentz just assassinated his coach. How many OC’s has Big Ben taken out? What about Jarvis Landry demanding a trade? Le’veon Bell? Elway? Eli? “tHe StArS dOn’T rUn ThE lEaGuE!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: Nah. Yeah. People that take internal matters to social media definitely fit the term Diva. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Not yet it isn't. And I agree that they shouldn't have told him he'd have a say in hiring the GM and/or HC...and then not followed-through by at least giving him an advanced heads-up. But Easterby is a convenient scapegoat. They have since hired a GM with a good resume and will soon have a new HC who won't also be GM. If you haven’t read the piece, I suggest that you do. Easterby lied through his teeth to his colleagues in order to threaten them, and even made Kraft look good by lying about him (stupidly, because it was so easy to reveal that they were lies). He is straight out of central casting -- Grima Wormtongue crossed with Littlefinger, basically. Just now, Beast said: Yeah. People that take internal matters to social media definitely fit the term Diva. I think he was responding to the SI piece that he knew was going to post imminently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Beast said: Yeah. People that take internal matters to social media definitely fit the term Diva. I don't think Deshaun is pissed because of just himself personally. I think he wants change for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: I don't think Deshaun is pissed because of just himself personally. I think he wants change for the team. And? A year ago they were a playoff team with a big lead on KC in the playoffs if my mind serves me correctly. The real idiot in Houston was O'Brien. He's gone. One bad year and the guy is whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 18 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Officially concerned I feel stupid but I have no idea what he means. I appreciate an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said: I feel stupid but I have no idea what he means. I appreciate an explanation. If I had to speculate, he saw the SI piece beforehand and wrote, “if my concern/anger was on the low end before, it’s now reached a peak.” Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Beast said: And? A year ago they were a playoff team with a big lead on KC in the playoffs if my mind serves me correctly. The real idiot in Houston was O'Brien. He's gone. One bad year and the guy is whining. A year ago they had Hopkins, Hyde, DJ Reader, etc. And Deshaun Watson dragged the 28th ranked defense to that big lead on KC. The next year, he has the 30th ranked defense and they trade away his best weapon. Despite that, he has his best year but they still only win 4 games. I think the Texans can be turned around pretty fast by a new voice in that lockerroom and FO. But they need a good new voice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Lol we watched AB force his way out of town just last year. Wentz just assassinated his coach. How many OC’s has Big Ben taken out? What about Jarvis Landry demanding a trade? Le’veon Bell? Elway? Eli? “tHe StArS dOn’T rUn ThE lEaGuE!” LOL! That's not even close to players "rUnNiNg ThE lEaGuE." AB was a scumbag off the field and proved to be a cancer in the lockerroom so they shipped him out. Watson is neither. The only thinh Wentz assassinated was his own career by sucking while Pederson did the same by benching Hurts and losing the lockerroom. Bell had no contract and sat out a year. Elway and Eli were draft picks. Again the only leverage Watson has is sitting out, but in the last CBA the league made it expensive for players to do so because the owners still and always will run that league. Edited January 16, 2021 by Doc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Lol we watched AB force his way out of town just last year. Wentz just assassinated his coach. How many OC’s has Big Ben taken out? What about Jarvis Landry demanding a trade? Le’veon Bell? Elway? Eli? “tHe StArS dOn’T rUn ThE lEaGuE!” Why are you so offended by this notion (not that it’s true)? Do you own a team? Edited January 16, 2021 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said: I feel stupid but I have no idea what he means. I appreciate an explanation. I have not been following this super closely, but he seems to have become disillusioned with the Houston organization, going so far as to accuse them of being somewhat racist in their policies and what not. This is why he's talking about leaving the team. It has been suggested that he'd be willing to go to Miami, with perhaps the idea being that Tua (at Miami) would go to Houston in exchange? What is interesting is that the 2 QBs share the same agent, so there is way more going on here than your typical rumors. I don't think Houston would have any interest at all at trading Watson, under normal circumstances. But this isn't normal...sounds like he is quasi-demanding a trade. Or something like that. This story is a long way from being over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 59 minutes ago, Doc said: LOL! That's not even close to players "rUnNiNg ThE lEaGuE." AB was a scumbag off the field and proved to be a cancer in the lockerroom so they shipped him out. Watson is neither. The only thinh Wentz assassinated was his own career by sucking while Pederson did the same by benching Hurts and losing the lockerroom. Bell had no contract and sat out a year. Elway and Eli were draft picks. Again the only leverage Watson has is sitting out, but in the last CBA the league made it expensive for players to do so because the owners still and always will run that league. Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. 53 minutes ago, mannc said: Why are you so offended by this notion (not that it’s true)? Do you own a team? Excuse me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, FireChans said: Excuse me? Let me make it simpler for you...Why are you so offended by the notion that players can use their leverage over owners to influence the trajectory of their careers? It seems to me that Watson has every reason to be disgusted with the Texans' franchise. He's been a model citizen and franchise QB since the day he was drafted...and the organization has been a dumpster fire, at least for the last two years. Ownership handed over total control of football operations to a megalomaniacal jackass who left the franchise in a very deep hole, with no clear way to get out of it. Why the hell shouldn't Watson want to have some input on the teams' GM and coaching hires? And why shouldn't they listen to him? Edited January 16, 2021 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reader Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 hours ago, FireChans said: A year ago they had Hopkins, Hyde, DJ Reader, etc. And Deshaun Watson dragged the 28th ranked defense to that big lead on KC. The next year, he has the 30th ranked defense and they trade away his best weapon. Despite that, he has his best year but they still only win 4 games. I think the Texans can be turned around pretty fast by a new voice in that lockerroom and FO. But they need a good new voice. Add to that, allegedly, an owner who promises to involve Watson in the GM and coach hiring process only to hire the GM without involving him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, mannc said: Let me make it simpler for you...Why are you so offended by the notion that players can use their leverage over owners to influence the trajectory of their careers? It seems to me that Watson has every reason to be disgusted with the Texans' franchise. He's been a model citizen and franchise QB since the day he was drafted...and the organization has been a dumpster fire, at least for the last two years. Ownership handed over total control of football operations to a megalomaniacal jackass who left the franchise in a very deep hole, with no clear way to get out of it. Why the hell shouldn't Watson want to have some input on the teams' GM and coaching hires? And why shouldn't they listen to him? I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: I'm not. Seems that way to me. Aren't you complaining about the players trying to "run the league"? Or did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: Seems that way to me. Aren't you complaining about the players trying to "run the league"? Or did I miss something? You missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: You missed something. Fair enough. I went back and read all your posts in this thread, and I'm not quite sure where you come down on the issue. You do seem to support Watson's right to try to influence the Texans' path... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 28 minutes ago, FireChans said: Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. Excuse me? There’s a BIG different between some players forcing a teams hand and the player’s running the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. Sure he's a superstar. But the problem for him is that he played all season long...and the team managed only 4 wins. They aren't going to be any better this year without their first and second round picks and players likely to avoid going there. Which makes his only leverage, sitting out, a hollow threat because if he does, they go from picking top-5 anyway to maybe 1st, which actually helps them more. Meanwhile it costs him a huge chunk of money/likely a good portion of his signing bonus if he sits out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Sure he's a superstar. But the problem for him is that he played all season long...and the team managed only 4 wins. They aren't going to be any better this year without their first and second round picks and players likely to avoid going there. Which makes his only leverage, sitting out, a hollow threat because if he does, they go from picking top-5 anyway to maybe 1st, which actually helps them more. Meanwhile it costs him a huge chunk of money/likely a good portion of his signing bonus if he sits out. You seem to think that his only leverage is sitting out. It isn't. He's exercising his leverage right now. 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: There’s a BIG different between some players forcing a teams hand and the player’s running the league. Not really. Spencer Dinwiddie doesn't run the NBA. Players like Lebron do. Even Chris Paul, a HoF player in the NBA, got traded to an OKC team which was supposed to be TERRIBLE. Guess who collected his paycheck and didn't make a peep? Edited January 16, 2021 by FireChans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 32 minutes ago, FireChans said: Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. Excuse me? "Superstar QBs" don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. This is real-life football, not Fantasy Football. 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Sure he's a superstar. But the problem for him is that he played all season long...and the team managed only 4 wins. They aren't going to be any better this year without their first and second round picks and players likely to avoid going there. Which makes his only leverage, sitting out, a hollow threat because if he does, they go from picking top-5 anyway to maybe 1st, which actually helps them more. Meanwhile it costs him a huge chunk of money/likely a good portion of his signing bonus if he sits out. "Superstar" QBs don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a QB league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: "Superstar QBs" don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. This is real-life football, not Fantasy Football. "Superstar" QBs don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a QB league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. Apparently they do because Deshaun Watson just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Apparently they do because Deshaun Watson just did. Apparently he's not a superstar QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, JoshAllenReceipts said: Apparently he's not a superstar QB. You're probably gonna have to come up with a better argument than "nuh uh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, FireChans said: You seem to think that his only leverage is sitting out. It isn't. He's exercising his leverage right now. Not really. Spencer Dinwiddie doesn't run the NBA. Players like Lebron do. Even Chris Paul, a HoF player in the NBA, got traded to an OKC team which was supposed to be TERRIBLE. Guess who collected his paycheck and didn't make a peep? I’m talking about the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, NewEra said: I’m talking about the nfl. Sorry, my argument is that if you are going to argue that NBA players "run the league" because some superstars dictate moves, I would argue the NFL players also "run the league." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: You seem to think that his only leverage is sitting out. It isn't. He's exercising his leverage right now. What leverage is he exercising right now? At best he got them to give a token interview to Bienenemy. What else can he do? Not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: Sorry, my argument is that if you are going to argue that NBA players "run the league" because some superstars dictate moves, I would argue the NFL players also "run the league." I see. I just don’t see it that way. JMO, nba players clearly run the league, while some nfl players get their way. I see your point though, it definitely happens. Just on a different level and not nearly as often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: What leverage is he exercising right now? At best he got them to give a token interview to Bienenemy. What else can he do? Not much. Cause headaches. Express displeasure loudly and often. Do you think any one in the Houston Front Office is happy right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: Cause headaches. Express displeasure loudly and often. Do you think any one in the Houston Front Office is happy right now? Immaterial. I doubt anyone's happy coming off a 4 win season despite having a superstar franchise QB, no 1st or 2nd round picks, and Tennessee and Indy in their division, plus the Jags getting Lawrence. If I'm Caserio, I say to Watson to give me a couple years or sit out because we can win 4 games with or without you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: You're probably gonna have to come up with a better argument than "nuh uh." 4-12 is all I need. 4 and 12. 2 of the 4 wins came against the #1 overall pick Jaguars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Immaterial. I doubt anyone's happy coming off a 4 win season despite having a superstar franchise QB, no 1st or 2nd round picks, and Tennessee and Indy in their division, plus the Jags getting Lawrence. If I'm Caserio, I say to Watson to give me a couple years or sit out because we can win 4 games with or without you. If they didn't have Watson, they go 0-16. Also, just because you say it's immaterial doesn't make it true. Watson starting airing grievances and voila, they interview his preferred candidate. They clearly care, even if you don't. 6 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: 4-12 is all I need. 4 and 12. 2 of the 4 wins came against the #1 overall pick Jaguars. It's a silly argument. But if you wanna talk numbers.... Despite only playing 10 more games than Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson has thrown for ~5000 more yards, 37 more TD's and only 5 more INT's. Watson is a superstar. Their team sucked this year. It sucked last year too, just a little bit less. Edited January 16, 2021 by FireChans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: If they didn't have Watson, they go 0-16. Also, just because you say it's immaterial doesn't make it true. Watson starting airing grievances and voila, they interview his preferred candidate. They clearly care, even if you don't. It's a silly argument. But if you wanna talk numbers.... Despite only playing 10 more games than Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson has thrown for ~5000 more yards, 37 more TD's and only 5 more INT's. Watson is a superstar. Their team sucked this year. It sucked last year too, just a little bit less. 4-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: 4-12 Peyton Manning once went 6-10. Aaron Rodgers went 6-9-1 two years ago. Your argument stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Just now, FireChans said: Peyton Manning once went 6-10. Aaron Rodgers went 6-9-1 two years ago. Your argument stinks. 4-12 is worse than 6-10 The 2 wins against JAX should count as Half Wins each. Edited January 16, 2021 by JoshAllenReceipts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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