WideNine Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 The main thrust of the barrage of these tactics is to stall the state vote certification process in the hopes of having states default on their certification deadlines and allow GOP legislators in states where they control the chambers to overide the popular vote. There are a lot of checks against this actual stealing of elections and many states have laws to prevent "faithless" electors that try to vote in a way that does not reflect the popular vote of their state. More regarding safeguards: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/19/how-electoral-college-works-437749 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Looking around at what's happening I don't believe Trump's plan is to "steal the election". None of these legal challenges are having a real impact. The latest ruling in PA was a blow to his chances. I have doubts the US Supreme Court will hear the appeal or rule in his favor. From my interpretation of the PA court ruling is they acted properly so there is shaky and perhaps no legal ground for the Supreme Court to overrule the decision. None of the other state challenges are moving the vote totals to anything that might change the result. In a couple week's the electors from all states will meet and this will be over. Do I think the Democratic party machines is these key districts in the swing states played fast and loose with the mail-in vote process and vote counting? Absolutely. But they've had sufficient time to plan and prepare well for any conceivable vote challenge. Like a good friend of mine pointed out about the legal process "its not what you know or think its what you can prove" that matters. The time is short and the legal process is slow. The clock will simply run out on Trump here. I think Trump has a few objectives beyond reversing the election: 1). Stay relevant through to 2024. 2). Give his followers a cause going forward, the new resistance. 3). Engage in a "scorched earth" policy prior to the transition in January. 4). Position himself to be blameless for the economic and social disaster that awaits us in 2021 (you should position yourselves too). Edited November 22, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I think whomever the new Attorney General is, he or she may appoint a special prosecutor to determine if Trump committed sedition by illegally trying to subvert the lection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 zzzzzz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Trump's plan is to destroy the country before Jan 20th. He has all his feeble minded Trumpies helping him do it. Cannot wait for Jan 20th, only problem is it will take a very long time to undo the damage that corrupt man has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump Why is Joe Biden so quickly forming a Cabinet when my investigators have found hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes, enough to “flip” at least four States, which in turn is more than enough to win the Election? Hopefully the Courts and/or Legislatures will have.... This claim about election fraud is disputed 8:18 PM · Nov 21, 2020 unreal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I think whomever the new Attorney General is, he or she may appoint a special prosecutor to determine if Trump committed sedition by illegally trying to subvert the lection. Challenging the results of the election have been within the framework of the legal and constitutional system. So what 'subversion' has taken place by utilizing legal recourse as prescribed by the law? Nothing. And to date the majority of court rulings have been against the campaigns claims. These rulings appear to be correct. Just because we might not "like" or "agree" with what someone is doing doesn't equate to them breaking the law. I've argued the dangers of efforts to politicize the legal system. Its a dangerous path to take. Such an investigation might be perceived by the heavily armed and motivated hard-core right as an attempt by the left to use state power against their political enemies rather than some fundamental pursuit of some legal claim. That would be a declaration of civil war and most likely open season on leftist politicians and their MSM agents. Who will stop it? Defunded police organizations? The FBI? There are only so many agents. National Guard, active military? Who's side would the rank and file soldier side with here? Left wing paramilitary groups like Antifa? Doubtful. BLM? Its not their fight. The rational course of action will be to just let it go and move on. Edited November 22, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Challenging the results of the election have been within the framework of the legal and constitutional system. So what 'subversion' has taken place by utilizing legal recourse as prescribed by the law? Nothing. And to date the majority of court rulings have been against the campaigns claims. These rulings appear to be correct. Just because we might not "like" or "agree" with what someone is doing doesn't equate to them breaking the law. I've argued the dangers of efforts to politicize the legal system. Its a dangerous path to take. Such an investigation might be perceived by the heavily armed and motivated hard-core right as an attempt by the left to use state power against their political enemies rather than some fundamental pursuit of some legal claim. That would be a declaration of civil war and most likely open season on leftist politicians and their MSM agents. Who will stop it? Defunded police organizations? The FBI? There are only so many agents. National Guard, active military? Who's side would the rank and file soldier side with here? Left wing paramilitary groups like Antifa? Doubtful. BLM? Its not their fight. The rational course of action will be to just let it go and move on. I have no problem with his court filings as silly as they have turned out to be. But when he tries to get state legislators to overturn the will of the people in a fair election that is actively trying to incite rebellion. That is sedition. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Looking around at what's happening I don't believe Trump's plan is to "steal the election". None of these legal challenges are having a real impact. The latest ruling in PA was a blow to his chances. I have doubts the US Supreme Court will hear the appeal or rule in his favor. From my interpretation of the PA court ruling is they acted properly so there is shaky and perhaps no legal ground for the Supreme Court to overrule the decision. None of the other state challenges are moving the vote totals to anything that might change the result. In a couple week's the electors from all states will meet and this will be over. Do I think the Democratic party machines is these key districts in the swing states played fast and loose with the mail-in vote process and vote counting? Absolutely. But they've had sufficient time to plan and prepare well for any conceivable vote challenge. Like a good friend of mine pointed out about the legal process "its not what you know or think its what you can prove" that matters. The time is short and the legal process is slow. The clock will simply run out on Trump here. I think Trump has a few objectives beyond reversing the election: 1). Stay relevant through to 2024. 2). Give his followers a cause going forward, the new resistance. 3). Engage in a "scorched earth" policy prior to the transition in January. 4). Position himself to be blameless for the economic and social disaster that awaits us in 2021 (you should position yourselves too). Yup, he wants to control GOP lol https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-trump-hopes-to-use-party-machinery-to-retain-control-of-the-g-o-p/ar-BB1bfuY8 The guest who wouldnt leave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Challenging the results of the election have been within the framework of the legal and constitutional system. So what 'subversion' has taken place by utilizing legal recourse as prescribed by the law? Nothing. And to date the majority of court rulings have been against the campaigns claims. These rulings appear to be correct. Just because we might not "like" or "agree" with what someone is doing doesn't equate to them breaking the law. I've argued the dangers of efforts to politicize the legal system. Its a dangerous path to take. Such an investigation might be perceived by the heavily armed and motivated hard-core right as an attempt by the left to use state power against their political enemies rather than some fundamental pursuit of some legal claim. That would be a declaration of civil war and most likely open season on leftist politicians and their MSM agents. Who will stop it? Defunded police organizations? The FBI? There are only so many agents. National Guard, active military? Who's side would the rank and file soldier side with here? Left wing paramilitary groups like Antifa? Doubtful. BLM? Its not their fight. The rational course of action will be to just let it go and move on. To confirm, you believed this during the Trump impeachment proceedings and the investigation into Russia interfering with the 2016 election, among the other alleged improprieties by the Trump administration? You support those legal proceedings right? And would tell those on the "right" the bolded also? Good. Just so we are clear. *** also to state the "majority" of claims have gone against the trump team is a bit of an understatement, no? How about 99.99999%? And the harm is a waste of time, money, and inciting his cult followers. But I guess seeing as this is coming from real americans, that is ok? Finally, you may be surprised how many military personnel absolutely abhor trump; with the GOP needing to be mindful of their association. Edited November 22, 2020 by IndyMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I have no problem with his court filings as silly as they have turned out to be. But when he tries to get state legislators to overturn the will of the people in a fair election that is actively trying to incite rebellion. That is sedition. You are invoking the quid pro quo argument. You are alleging some conspiracy to alter the election results. Assuming Trump offered a member of the state legislator "something" in return for his cooperation in blocking the certification of the election. The meeting itself is not illegal. And there is no evidence any arrangement was offered or accepted. What's to investigate? Two people had a meeting, it ended, and they left. I'm not attacking you or what you say. My basic contention is the entire political system is a fraud. And left, right, or center we're all getting played by one or another peddling some fraudster fantasy story about how much they care about everybody. And how wonderful life will be with them leading us forward to prosperity. I could suggest that any and all future meetings between politicians and lobbyists should be scrutinized to the same degree. What are they offering? Campaign contributions, jobs for family members, free trips, and other perks in exchange for political favors or lucrative legislation for their employers. Sounds illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: And there is no evidence any arrangement was offered or accepted. What's to investigate? Been wondering the same thing with all these Trump tweets. What is to investigate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, IndyMark said: To confirm, you believed this during the Trump impeachment proceedings and the investigation into Russia interfering with the 2016 election, among the other alleged improprieties by the Trump administration? You support those legal proceedings right? And would tell those on the "right" the bolded also? Good. Just so we are clear. I think the Russia collusion theory is a big hoax manufactured by Obama and his cronies to cripple the new administration. And it worked pretty well for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 And the 2020 election interference is not a big hoax? Manufactured by Trump? Trump could not stay out of his own way, 100% of his falling is of his own doing. No help needed, he is a pro at self-imploding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, IndyMark said: And the 2020 election interference is not a big hoax? Manufactured by Trump? Trump could not stay out of his own way, 100% of his falling is of his own doing. No help needed, he is a pro at self-imploding. During a pandemic, tearing this country apart, damage that may never be fixed from republicans. All the while, Golf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 56 minutes ago, IndyMark said: And the 2020 election interference is not a big hoax? Manufactured by Trump? Trump could not stay out of his own way, 100% of his falling is of his own doing. No help needed, he is a pro at self-imploding. So are you saying the 2016 Russian collusion story and 2020 election fraud are both hoaxes? To this point based on evidence and facts I'd tend to agree.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Trump himself knows he lost ...he's only squeezing his followers for every $$ he can....It's going to be all over by Dec. 14th....the campaign in is the red right now...the last few weeks of the race were costly.....and obviously, were pointless....80 Millions Americans said so.....the GOP needs to get rid of Trumpism ....now.... Edited November 22, 2020 by Iron Maiden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So are you saying the 2016 Russian collusion story and 2020 election fraud are both hoaxes? To this point based on evidence and facts I'd tend to agree.. My guess is that the Parler and MSNBC safe space seeking folk tend to overlook the similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on a House Democratic leadership call Thursday night that President Trump is a “psychopathic nut,” Politico reports. https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/20/pelosi-calls-trump-a-psychopathic-nut/ I think she's starting to like him 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, ALF said: Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on a House Democratic leadership call Thursday night that President Trump is a “psychopathic nut,” Politico reports. https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/20/pelosi-calls-trump-a-psychopathic-nut/ I think she's starting to like him 🙂 She is speaking the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Looking around at what's happening I don't believe Trump's plan is to "steal the election". None of these legal challenges are having a real impact. The latest ruling in PA was a blow to his chances. I have doubts the US Supreme Court will hear the appeal or rule in his favor. From my interpretation of the PA court ruling is they acted properly so there is shaky and perhaps no legal ground for the Supreme Court to overrule the decision. None of the other state challenges are moving the vote totals to anything that might change the result. In a couple week's the electors from all states will meet and this will be over. Do I think the Democratic party machines is these key districts in the swing states played fast and loose with the mail-in vote process and vote counting? Absolutely. But they've had sufficient time to plan and prepare well for any conceivable vote challenge. Like a good friend of mine pointed out about the legal process "its not what you know or think its what you can prove" that matters. The time is short and the legal process is slow. The clock will simply run out on Trump here. I think Trump has a few objectives beyond reversing the election: 1). Stay relevant through to 2024. 2). Give his followers a cause going forward, the new resistance. 3). Engage in a "scorched earth" policy prior to the transition in January. 4). Position himself to be blameless for the economic and social disaster that awaits us in 2021 (you should position yourselves too). I think he is aiming at your points as well, but the gist of the legal efforts and the GOP directives to observers during recounts is to obstruct and delay.... That too is flawed logic as most states seperate recount request paid for out of some political war chest from initial result certifications. 3rd parties can request a recount in an attempt to change the certified results, but the certifications are date bound and move forward either way. There are state and constitutional deadlines that are firm. You may be right that much of the whole effort amounts to a multimillion dollar tantrum and scorched earth approach to concession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 This Trump sham is obvious.....he's never been known to be subtle... detroitnews.com/story/news/2020/11/11/money-support-trump-court-fight-flow-president/114862096/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plano Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Trump is still relevant? Thought he quit at halftime or something. This loser is pathetic. 2 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 8 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I have no problem with his court filings as silly as they have turned out to be. But when he tries to get state legislators to overturn the will of the people in a fair election that is actively trying to incite rebellion. That is sedition. I think that's EXACTLY why the GA Secretary of State made Lindsay Graham's phone "inquiry" about the recount public and why the two Michigan Republican leaders refused to be swayed by Trump: unlike Trump and his sycophants, they understand -- or their lawyers do -- that it's actions not words that constitute sedition, and they weren't having any part of it. By making public statements against Trump's "overtures", they essentially established their own innocence, while putting Trump's attempts to conspire to change the election results -- the action that would constitute sedition -- in the public record. It could make both Trump and Graham liable for sedition charges should the Biden administration choose to pursue it. (Sedition) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Iron Maiden said: This Trump sham is obvious.....he's never been known to be subtle... detroitnews.com/story/news/2020/11/11/money-support-trump-court-fight-flow-president/114862096/ Trump has always been and always will be a con man. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 10:00 AM, All_Pro_Bills said: I think the Russia collusion theory is a big hoax manufactured by Obama and his cronies to cripple the new administration. And it worked pretty well for them. The hacking of the DNC? The release of DNC private message at key times, Trump meeting with Russians for campaign reasons. Ya, nothing to see there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 9:36 AM, oldmanfan said: I have no problem with his court filings as silly as they have turned out to be. But when he tries to get state legislators to overturn the will of the people in a fair election that is actively trying to incite rebellion. That is sedition. Going to get real interesting here at 1pm, when the Michigan Board is scheduled to meet and vote to certify. https://www.lansingstatejournal.com./story/news/2020/11/23/michigan-election-certification-board-of-canvassers-electoral-votes-live/6389780002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 For anyone who wants to watch the Michigan (potential) *****-show. Here is a live feed. https://www.youtube.com/user/MichSoSOffice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Pretty clear that one of the GOP canvassers in Michigan plans on voting to certify the results. Michigan will be certified later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 41 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: For anyone who wants to watch the Michigan (potential) *****-show. Here is a live feed. https://www.youtube.com/user/MichSoSOffice I'm listening to the hearing I think they will certify the vote today if you go by the comments posting its overwelming support for that decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Pretty clear that one of the GOP canvassers in Michigan plans on voting to certify the results. Michigan will be certified later today. Yeah, we know that dick Shinkle wont vote to certify. And we know the 2 Dems will. It comes down to Van Langevelde, and I was originally worried when he first moved to table the motion in order for more discussion, but from his question to Chris Thomas it seems like he knows his only option is to certify right now. I loved Chris Thomas's advisement to Shinkle "You cant audit, you cant investigate, what ARE you going to do for 40 days? You have to certify in order to audit and investigate." Edited November 23, 2020 by DrDawkinstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, we know that dick Shinkle wont vote to certify. And we know the 2 Dems will. It comes down to Van Langevelde, and I was originally worried when he first moved to tale the motion in order for more discussion, but from his question to Chris Thomas it seems like he knows his only option is to certify right now. I loved Chris Thomas's advisement to Shinkle "You cant audit, you cant investigate, what ARE you going to do for 40 days? You have to certify in order to audit and investigate." Agreed. He completely owned him. It was beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Wow, Biden is sooooooo good, it's almost unbelievable, it's like he cheated or something. https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Agreed. He completely owned him. It was beautiful. And of course, Shinkle could only reply with the weakest answer ever, the classic "I'M the one asking YOU the questions" That's how you know you got someone beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Big Gun said: Wow, Biden is sooooooo good, it's almost unbelievable, it's like he cheated or something. https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ It's almost like people in cities turned out in record numbers and they really hate Donald Trump. It's also like a lot of people voted GOP all over their tickets except for President because they find Trump so repulsive. Edited November 23, 2020 by jrober38 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Big Gun said: Wow, Biden is sooooooo good, it's almost unbelievable, it's like he cheated or something. https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ Trump made himself the focus of the election and country's energy for 4 years. Biden 100% didn't turn out the vote, Trump did. The problem is that it worked both for him (second highest number of votes ever) and against him (Biden got the most ever). It's not a conspiracy, it's just what happened. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, Big Gun said: Wow, Biden is sooooooo good, it's almost unbelievable, it's like he cheated or something. https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ Eh, I think his opponent was just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plano Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Big Gun said: Wow, Biden is sooooooo good, it's almost unbelievable, it's like he cheated or something. https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ Trump got knocked the F out. The people have spoken. So, let's break it down, the first time around he lost by 3M votes, this time he got blasted by what 5M votes...and he says he's gonna run again in 2024? Does he wanna lose by 10M votes? What a loser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: And of course, Shinkle could only reply with the weakest answer ever, the classic "I'M the one asking YOU the questions" That's how you know you got someone beat. Looks like they are headed for a deadlock, but it is just more slow-walking and foot dragging that leads to the same place. A Biden win by popular vote in that state. If the board does not vote Monday to certify Michigan's election results, legal experts don't expect it will pose a serious threat to appointing the state's presidential electors. If the board showed no signs of acting to certify, someone would almost certainly sue in the Michigan Court of Appeals, seeking an order requiring the board to do so. Such an order could then be appealed to the Michigan Supreme Court. Once court proceedings are concluded, preferably before the Dec. 8 "safe harbor" date by which Congress is required to accept Michigan's electoral votes, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer would certify the state's 16 presidential electors ahead of the Dec. 14 convening of the Electoral College. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 35 minutes ago, Plano said: Trump got knocked the F out. The people have spoken. So, let's break it down, the first time around he lost by 3M votes, this time he got blasted by what 5M votes 6M. Not 5M. 6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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