Belief in the Team vs Help from a Trade

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

If Beane is playing the long game, the number of bad contracts in UFA isn't supporting that.  That and dealing picks do not put a team in position at the deadline to improve the roster for what should be at a minimum the 4th seed in the AFC. 

 

That said, it sounded like sale prices were too high and sending higher picks to take on a contract were cost prohibitive.

 

 

I agree with this for the most part.  With respect to the "bad contracts," they weren't "bad" until we found out that the salary cap will be greatly reduced next year due to Covid.  He did try to unload Murphy it seemed with his downturn in playing this year.  However there were no takers.  Covid F'd things up this year as well with opt outs.  Too late to do anything at that late date.

[Rc2catch]

I didn’t think there was much on the trade market that was actually available that would actually help us. So I was disappointed cause I of course like adding new talent but nowhere near as bent out of shape as a lot of our posters. Certainly not doom and gloom over the defense we all knew they could play better. I am fine with ups and downs now as long as week 15 or so the whole team gets hot heading into the playoffs. Momentum is huge and I think we still have not seen what these 2020 buffalo bills are really capable of. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I was completely against trading a 1st-3rd for a 1 year rental.  We don’t have a 4th and I was really hoping to be able to get Tomlinson or Settle.  I think the biggest blunder we made this offseason was not replacing Star.  Huge mistake.  Tomlinson or settle would’ve been so big for this team,  but I’m sure the giants want to try and keep Tomlinson (he’s a stud) and with ionidis (sp) injury, the skins may want to do the same with settle.  
 

bottom line.  With upcoming free agents and Josh’s eventual monster contract looming, this years draft will be a major building block or any title run we may make.  We need to hit in our 1-3 rd picks.  Drafting starters that are under control under rookie deals is integral for building this team with a 40mill QB cap hit coming up soon

 

The fact that it’s a one year rental to help finish a season that could turn upside down at the blink of an eye makes me want to keep picks to have some cheap young players once we have to pay Josh and some of the others. Pick them, develop them, and decide who is best to extend. 

 

In another year, I might feel differently given the right opportunity.

 

 

 

.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Augie

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The fact that it’s a one year rental to help finish a season that could turn upside down at the blink of an eye makes me want to keep picks to have some cheap young players once we have to pay Josh and some of the others. Pick them, develop them, and decide who is best to extend. 

 

In another year, I might feel differently given the right opportunity.

 

 

 

.

Exactly.  That may completely change next year. Just so scary with covid looming.  It could be the day before our home playoff game......with no fans....and Dawson Knox gets covid again.....while Josh Allen gets contact traced to him and can’t play.  While we can def win it all this year,  the addition of so much unknown makes it tougher to gamble on a 1 year rental while giving up a rookie 4 year contract 

[BullBuchanan]

What I got from our lack of in-season transactions is that management still feels this team isn't ready to compete for a Super Bowl and weren't just a piece away. There were too many obvious moves (Ngakoue, Bell, Alexander, Williamson) that should have been a high upside low risk transaction.

I'm of the belief that they need a completely revamped front 7, a lot of help in the secondary. a workhorse in the backfield and some sort of competency out of the TE position. Let Allen and Diggs carry them as far as they can this year, and cut all the dead weight that doesn't prove to be a contributing factor down the stretch which would prime the pump for a run in the next year or two..

Edited November 15, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Hebert19]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Does anyone else have a serious case of mixed feelings about the Bills being total non-players in this season's trade-fest?

 

On the one hand, I think there's probably something to be said that for talented athletes, belief in oneself, belief from the guys playing next to you, and a clear message from the coaches "look at this film clip of yourself - you can do this, listen to us, work on these techniques, focus, you will see results" are all powerful strategies to improve performance. 

 

And the message "we need to bring in a couple guys, 'cuz what you got between you isn't enough" likely works against that.

 

On the other hand, to see teams like the Ravens who are already one of the best Ds in the league, add pieces like Yannick Ngakoue for the moderate price of a 3rd rounder and a conditional next-year 5th - well, it's hard to watch even though he is just a 10 game rental.

 

Or the Chiefs who already have a good run game, add Le'veon Bell as a FA.

 

Anyone else have similar mixed feelings?

 

 

Draft picks = no cap issues.   Trading and losing draft picks and having to sign free agents = cap issues.  We need our picks to keep the core together. 

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did someone who fits Brown's profile (speedy deep threat who can track the ball really well and run underneath routes as well) come available?  I didn't think so but I may have missed it.  Agree on the disappointment that Davis didn't step up and that Knox has not done anything.

 

I suppose I see the offensive struggles as in part scheme/effort related and also impacted by Allen's decision making.  I would have liked to see us make a push for a 1TDT, since the question on defense this year appears to be "can anyone play 1TDT?"

 

It'll be interesting to see what they come out with as a defensive front tomorrow.

 

 

Some truth to that last.  Not seeing the first...I think we are missing pieces at LB and DL.  The Beane wager seems to have been to spend as much money as he would have spent for Shaq and Phillips, but for a larger number of bodies and for shorter term contracts with less guaranteed.  Implicit in that wager is expecting our highly drafted talent (Harrison Phillips, Ed Oliver, and Epenesa) to begin to step up and to really be full-go next year.  If they can, we're good, if they can't, we've escaped one cap situation to create another.  So far mixed reviews.

Our Defense is built to run from a base nickel, and when Edmunds and Milano are healthy and we are running 3 CBs I think we are good. As for our DL I understand that we don't have any DT who can take up 2 men just because of size but I don't see many teams that are good against both. But is there anyone who you think is a complete team in NFL? Outside of KC I see big holes.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Pissed we didnt make the trade for Ngakoue originally. I would have happily given two 2nds for him (2020 and 2021). Yannick >>> Epenesa & Another Rookie. But that ship has sailed.

 

It is not the two 2nd round picks but the contract you have to sign him long term.  Especially when you have made one already to get Diggs and pay him next year.  You have to learn to win with your draft picks

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did someone who fits Brown's profile (speedy deep threat who can track the ball really well and run underneath routes as well) come available?  I didn't think so but I may have missed it.  Agree on the disappointment that Davis didn't step up and that Knox has not done anything.

 

I suppose I see the offensive struggles as in part scheme/effort related and also impacted by Allen's decision making.  I would have liked to see us make a push for a 1TDT, since the question on defense this year appears to be "can anyone play 1TDT?"

 

It'll be interesting to see what they come out with as a defensive front tomorrow.

 

 

Some truth to that last.  Not seeing the first...I think we are missing pieces at LB and DL.  The Beane wager seems to have been to spend as much money as he would have spent for Shaq and Phillips, but for a larger number of bodies and for shorter term contracts with less guaranteed.  Implicit in that wager is expecting our highly drafted talent (Harrison Phillips, Ed Oliver, and Epenesa) to begin to step up and to really be full-go next year.  If they can, we're good, if they can't, we've escaped one cap situation to create another.  So far mixed reviews.

 

 

Will Fuller is a tremendous deep ball receiver and he was the subject of a lot of trade speculation.....especially wrt Green Bay....... as a pending free agent.    Word was Houston wanted too much.  Kenny Stills was a cheaper option that could have been pursued.   John Brown is the better overall WR than both if healthy though. 

 

As for the 1TDT..........I think that the Bills don't see it as the need that some fans do.

 

The hand wringing about Star has been hilarious.  I think they'd have preferred to cut him outright but settled for the pay cut option because they were still on the hook for a boatload.

 

IMO they overloaded on 3T types in UFA because their inclination was to try to be more disruptive on the front.   Further proof:  They cut one of their better 1T options in Vincent Taylor at the end of camp and then when they had an opening they picked up the small disruptor Justin Zimmer instead of a big body.   

 

And there were no actual rumors about the Bills pursuing 1T options via trade either.

 

Harrison Phillips has actually been playing quite well the past month in that traditional 1T role........but it's a tossup whether he is even active from game to game........so obviously that big body is not the priority to the Bills that it is some fans.

 

 Ultimately when you are rotating DT's do you need a 330# guy to just stand at the LOS and get in the way?   If it's only for 15-20 snaps per game I think they expect Jefferson and Oliver and Butler and Zimmer to take turns........and at the same time provide some actual pressure when teams go to the air.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[billsfan89]

I remember in 2007 the Giants made no significant moves during the offseason, all the commentators were poking fun at them because they had an OK team but needed some talent and they had the cap space to make some acquisitions.

 

A commentator (not sure who but it was on Fox) said the lack of offseason acquisitions might not always be a bad thing, it could be a sign that the coaches on the roster like what they have. The Giants would go on to win the Super Bowl.

 

So while I am dissatisfied with the lack of trading for a one tech, the coaching staff looking at the roster and liking it is not a bad thing necessarily.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Will Fuller is a tremendous deep ball receiver and he was the subject of a lot of trade speculation.....especially wrt Green Bay....... as a pending free agent.    Word was Houston wanted too much.  Kenny Stills was a cheaper option that could have been pursued.   John Brown is the better overall WR than both if healthy though. 

 

As for the 1TDT..........I think that the Bills don't see it as the need that some fans do.

 

The hand wringing about Star has been hilarious.  I think they'd have preferred to cut him outright but settled for the pay cut option because they were still on the hook for a boatload.

 

IMO they overloaded on 3T types in UFA because their inclination was to try to be more disruptive on the front.   Further proof:  They cut one of their better 1T options in Vincent Taylor at the end of camp and then when they had an opening they picked up the small disruptor Justin Zimmer instead of a big body.   

 

And there were no actual rumors about the Bills pursuing 1T options via trade either.

 

Harrison Phillips has actually been playing quite well the past month in that traditional 1T role........but it's a tossup whether he is even active from game to game........so obviously that big body is not the priority to the Bills that it is some fans.

 

 Ultimately when you are rotating DT's do you need a 330# guy to just stand at the LOS and get in the way?   If it's only for 15-20 snaps per game I think they expect Jefferson and Oliver and Butler and Zimmer to take turns........and at the same time provide some actual pressure when teams go to the air.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course they didn't find 1-tech a priority in the offseason. They had Star. Lotulelei was the 1-tech they needed on run plays. When he opted out - on July 28th - they'd already signed all the other DTs and had very little left in terms of cap, and the free agency cupboard was pretty much bare so they couldn't replace him effectively. There are few guys with that skillset, see Bill Parcells and the Planet Theory.

 

And yeah, the hand-wringing about Star has been hilarious ... for teams that were going to play the Bills and planned to run a lot.

 

"Ultimately, when you are rotating DTs do you need a 330# guy to just stand at the LOS and get in the way?" you ask. Dumb question. No, you don't need that, because that's not what Star did, nor is it what McDermott wants a 1-tech space eater to do. It's more complex than that. But if you re-ask that question in a way where it's worth answering, we've already got the answer, and the answer is yes.

 

If you change it to "Ultimately, when you are rotating DTs, do you need a good space eating 1-tech like Star in a McDermott defense?" the answer is clearly yes. Couldn't be more obvious, as McDermott himself provided the answer by working with Beane to bring Star in on a 5 year $50 million contract. Of course they need a guy like Star. That's why they ... you know ... um ... brought in Star.

 

And they didn't replace him after he opted out because there aren't many guys like him and the ones out there are on teams.

 

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Anyone else have similar mixed feelings?

 

 

 

I have mixed feelings about most things. Few situations are so cut and dried as to NOT bring about mixed feelings.

 

But this is what I expected. I'm on record as expecting a few small moves with small cap charges, and that's what happened. Would've been nice if we'd have been able to pull something off where we got a great deal but it didn't seem likely.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Thurman#1

[DrDawkinstein]

15 hours ago, ganesh said:

It is not the two 2nd round picks but the contract you have to sign him long term.  Especially when you have made one already to get Diggs and pay him next year.  You have to learn to win with your draft picks

 

There is plenty of money to go around. We've already wasted a lot of money on far lesser players on the DL this year (cutting Murphy and not signing Butler would have paid for Ngakoue alone).

 

It's Beane's job to make it work, and there are more ways to work the cap than any of us know.

 

Diggs is under contract at over $10M/year through 2023.

Edited November 15, 2020 by DrDawkinstein