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Mr. WEO

Is Josh changing how college QBs are scouted?

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12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

 

So, Carson Wentz actually changed the way they draft QBs then? He came from ND State in the FCS...

 

No.  Wentz would be the cautionary tale.  Whereas Allen is as good as he looked in college, Wentz has already begun to wash out.  He's not nearly  the athlete Josh is--this is clear every week. He never was, which is also the point.

 

11 hours ago, K-9 said:

Josh Allen was predicted by some to be selected first overall BEFORE his last college season; before most of us even had him on the radar. So no, I don’t think he changed the way QB prospects are scouted. Here’s an SI article from May 2017. 

https://vault.si.com/vault/2017/05/15/no-one-no-1

 

 

 

 

That's a MAJOR stretch.  There is a single reference in that article (a very good piece) to "one personnel director" who "told" Schefter that he would go Number one.  The rest of the article describes how far he came in a few years physically in High School and college.  In fact when Josh thought one year as starter was enough to leave for the NFL, his coach convinced him this was NOT true. He stayed.

 

 

11 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Personally I think Russell Wilson changed how QBs are scouted and drafted. 

 

Mike Vick and Brees had already existed successfully in the NFL (each generously listed at 6 feet).   Scouts and analytics were far more high on Wilson than they were on Josh.

 

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

Y’know, before Josh it was Pat Mahomes.. rocket arm QB, poor mechanics, came from a gimmicky offense.. Even Lamar Jackson had questions to a large degree.. Truth be told, if you have an OC worth his salt, why take the lesser talented QB? If your coaching staff is any good, why not take the more talented player and work out the kinks? 

 

Mahomes and Jackson went to big time football schools.   Wyoming's Offense was nothing like those of Texas Tech or Louisville.  Not sure what you are getting at there.

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7 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Oh now Josh’s accuracy issues are Matt Ryan-like as opposed to “can’t hit the broadside of a barn”?

 

It’s amazing to me how obvious it is to folks now that he’s on the cusp of greatness; it should’ve been obvious 3 years ago.

 

 

Early in the preseason of 2018 he made a front pylon throw that probably had <1% chance of completion..........realistically only Aaron Rodgers was the only starting QB in the NFL who I'd ever seen who could have made that throw.  At that point I felt like this guy doesn't even need to come that close to his ceiling to be good.   He's put the work in to be so much better but there were flashes of the extraordinary from the outset.

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Mahomes and Jackson went to big time football schools.   Wyoming's Offense was nothing like those of Texas Tech or Louisville.  Not sure what you are getting at there.

Texas Tech was viewed as a school that ran a college system that wouldn’t translate well to the pros.. People thought Mahomes was a product of that system.. Mahomes like Allen coming out was rough around the edges but ultra talented.. poor mechanics but elite arm strength and supremely talented.. Lamar fits in here as well in the sense that he was off the charts as far as talent is concerned but many wondered if he had the brains to be a good passer.. Point being, nobody thought these guys were pro ready by any means, all had question marks and concerns.. It goes to show you that when drafting a QB, potential is something you covet above all else because if your coaching staff is worth their beans, the QB with the higher potential threshold will be the better QB in the long run over lesser talented pro ready QBs.. (Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen) vs (Allen, Mahomes, Jackson) I count two MVPs on the project QB list and none on the pro ready list. Always draft for potential.. swing for the fences every time.. if your staff can’t develop a QB, that coaching staff will be out the door in three years time anyways..

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6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The NFL is incredibly slow to change how they do things, and the league is not run by brilliant people.

 

One area that has seen some improvement in recent years, and Wilson may well be a big part of it, is with QB height.

 

I think the league is coming off the notion that you have to be 6'4" to play QB and "see" over the line.

 

 

short QBs can't see over the line

smart OCs adjust to help with play calls and blocking schemes

smart DCS take away the crutches and severely limit what a short QB can do

 

Most are not worth the effort to compromise your offense

Wilson is the exceptional talent

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17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Nice piece (BR, but...):

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2913672-from-wyoming-rough-to-buffalo-ready-scouts-sound-off-on-josh-allens-rise?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

"He wasn't a run-first guy who out of nowhere just showed up [as a passer]," says one scout whose team drafted a quarterback that year. "He was always talented. He just needed some time in a new offense to feel comfortable. ... His confidence has grown in his arm and throwing ability, and he's making plays." 

"I'm not surprised how he's playing," says an NFC executive. "I think his accuracy issues in college were similar to Matt Ryan's. [They] threw a lot of INTs because they played with inferior teammates, so they tried to do too much and win every game by themselves."

Is he changing how QBs are scouted. I think so. I’m sure more players like him will be paid much more attention too. Who doesn’t love his story? Every GM is instructing their area scouts to ‘look for Josh Allen types in the tall grass’

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P. Mahomes & L. Jackson were drafted later than Allen and have had bigger impacts in the NFL so far. The premise that a #7 overall pick was somehow dramatically undervalued before the draft is preposterous .

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1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Is he changing how QBs are scouted. I think so. I’m sure more players like him will be paid much more attention too. Who doesn’t love his story? Every GM is instructing their area scouts to ‘look for Josh Allen types in the tall grass’

Scouts are already looking for these guys, guaranteed. Josh is the epitome of "eye test" over stats. He was drafted 7th overall based on measurables and intangibles. Scouts have been doing this forever.

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3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Scouts are already looking for these guys, guaranteed. Josh is the epitome of "eye test" over stats. He was drafted 7th overall based on measurables and intangibles. Scouts have been doing this forever.

Exactly.

 

Furthermore, guys like Josh, size, athleticism, fit the mold, leader of men, types are ALWAYS drafted high in the NFL. Flutie's quote about having to prove you can't play QB is from 20 years ago.

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Nah, the NFL in that way really hasn’t changed in forever, and isn’t likely to, kinda like the general public, we keep electing the same lying POS over and over... 😁👍 it’s cause humans are stupid...

 

Go Bills!!!

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7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Is he changing how QBs are scouted? I think so. I’m sure more players like him will be paid much more attention too. Who doesn’t love his story? Every GM is instructing their area scouts to ‘look for Josh Allen types in the tall grass’

 

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20 hours ago, Utah John said:

I'd say it's more likely that Josh Allen will change the way young QBs are coached and developed.  Allen didn't get so good overnight, just by being in the league a couple of years.  He got so good through months of hard work in the offseasons.  

Allen is hungry and he has a strong work ethic.  He can be coached and developed because he is open to it and seeks out any possible way he can improve.  Not every dude has that type of drive and it’s not necessarily replicable.

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. Without Russ there is no way Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray go #1 overall in consecutive years as short guys out of spread schemes. 

True.  Russell Wilson also has an “ it” factor that was overlooked because of his height.  If he were 6’1 or above I’m convinced he’d have been a top 10 pick.  The league definitely learned their lesson from Wilson.

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He probably shouldn't change the way QB's are evaluated. If other teams are trying to find another Josh Allen, they will likely fail. Josh is unique. We may never see another prospect like him.

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20 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Y’know, before Josh it was Pat Mahomes.. rocket arm QB, poor mechanics, came from a gimmicky offense.. Even Lamar Jackson had questions to a large degree.. Truth be told, if you have an OC worth his salt, why take the lesser talented QB? If your coaching staff is any good, why not take the more talented player and work out the kinks? 

 

Not all kinks can be worked out.   There is something to be said for raw physical ability but there is also something to be said about on field results.  In the case of Josh Allen, he played in a week conference on a bad team and had limited playing time.  So there was reason to believe his kinks could be worked out, but it was not a sure thing.  Which is why he went in the top 10.   It will never go one way or the other but a guy like Josh and assuming he continues to play well will make it easier for a team to "take a chance" in the future.

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