SoTier Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 11:11 PM, ExiledInIllinois said: Yeah. Traffic court is a sham. Nothing but a money maker. If it was truly about safety, they wouldn't punish monetarily. What does paying out have to do with driving safe? It just gets people more pissed off and they double next time. The ones that suffer at the hands of this sham the most are the ones that can least afford it. Working families are being pinched. The gov't is stealing money from their table in the name of safety. Anybody can always hide behind safety. So, what should happen to somebody who speeds or runs stop signs or breaks other traffic laws? Should he/she be jailed? Should we abandon all traffic rules? Fines are a reasonable balance between both extremes. Since driving is a necessity for most Americans, taking away a driver's license would be a far bigger penalty than a couple of hundred dollar fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, SoTier said: During the school year, you have to obey school zone rules. Most school zone speed zone signs also say "between 7 and 4 on school days" or similar. That means Monday through Friday except on legal holidays like Columbus Day or Thanksgiving break. Some school zones have flashing lights during school hours and signs say "speed limit 20 mph when flashing". Unfortunately, I've seen those lights not flashing when the school was obviously in session and sometimes flashing on weekends. That's not really the question though. It's the COVID question. If school is open, but everyone is remote, are those school zones still in effect? I guess I might as well be asking about a tree falling in the woods with no one around. I could see a technicality being used to argue either direction on this one. But then again, if the school in question was actually open with students, that settles this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Huff Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, SoTier said: Have you gotten other speeding tix? If not, definitely go to traffic court and take their offer for paying $150 or so for a parking ticket which will not count as a moving violation and save you $$ on your insurance going forward, especially if you have a safe driver discount now. Most local traffic courts are more than willing to deal speeding tix down to parking tix for drivers who aren't frequent violators because all of the parking ticket money stays locally while moving violation ticket monies are split with NYS. Been there, done that. I think this is the 3rd one I’ve had in the 22 years I’ve had my license. 2nd one in 4 years though. I just had to buy a Mustang... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, shrader said: That's not really the question though. It's the COVID question. If school is open, but everyone is remote, are those school zones still in effect? I guess I might as well be asking about a tree falling in the woods with no one around. I could see a technicality being used to argue either direction on this one. But then again, if the school in question was actually open with students, that settles this question. I would rather be safe than sorry, so I just assume that school zone rules are in effect Monday through Friday. 4 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said: I think this is the 3rd one I’ve had in the 22 years I’ve had my license. 2nd one in 4 years though. I just had to buy a Mustang... It's still worth going to court to see if you can get a deal IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, LeviF91 said: Is this the advice you'd give a family member or child of yours if they got caught up in something really bad and charged with multiple felonies? "Yes, junior, just tell the nice prosecutor everything that happened and pay the penalty of the next 20 years of your life. Really make sure they throw the book at you in the name of your citizenship." The American justice system works a certain way (for high crimes and misdemeanors as well as traffic violations) for a reason. He most likely will pay a penalty for his actions - it just won't be the penalty codified in the NYS VTL under what he actually did. The guilty plea to a lesser charge serves as a penalty to him for the actions that resulted in a ticket and as a cost savings to the municipality in which he committed the violation. You can accept responsibility without completely falling on your sword. This binary "accept the points on your license, the $600 fine, the $300 DMV fee for the points, 15 days in jail, and an increase in your insurance rates for the next 7 years or else you're a terrible person" line is a lazy take. If my child committed multiple felonies we’d have a lawyer represent her, and if she was found guilty she’d have to pay the penalty and go to prison. And if she sped through a school zone dhe’d Pay the appropriate fine. 56 minutes ago, SoTier said: So, what should happen to somebody who speeds or runs stop signs or breaks other traffic laws? Should he/she be jailed? Should we abandon all traffic rules? Fines are a reasonable balance between both extremes. Since driving is a necessity for most Americans, taking away a driver's license would be a far bigger penalty than a couple of hundred dollar fine. God forbid people have the integrity to be accountable for their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 13 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Why not move to a non-monetary system. That would actually promote safety. That will never happen, because they actually have to do something with you, like community service. Easier for them to bust into your bankbook and take food off a family's table because somebody made a mistake. That's the revolving door where the real money is. What are you suggesting? 5 lashes, a day in jail? I have an elementary school behind me. Kids are being dropped off or picked up all day long. The school is on a residential street not a main drag. I guess it being residential means no flashing light. I slow down to at least 15 during school hours. There is no way I would want to hit a kid and you can never tell what a kid will do. That includes him holding his parent's hand along side of a road. School limits are about safety. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 53 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: If my child committed multiple felonies we’d have a lawyer represent her, and if she was found guilty she’d have to pay the penalty and go to prison. And if she sped through a school zone dhe’d Pay the appropriate fine. God forbid people have the integrity to be accountable for their actions. And if the lawyer came back and said the court is offering a plea deal for a reduced fine and sentence, would you deny the deal and ask for the full punishment since your kid should "have the integrity to be accountable for their actions"? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 55 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: If my child committed multiple felonies we’d have a lawyer represent her, and if she was found guilty she’d have to pay the penalty and go to prison. And if she sped through a school zone dhe’d Pay the appropriate fine. So why should the OP use the options he has built into the system any less than your child would? Pleading not guilty should be the default to ANY charge. The burden is entirely on the state to prove their case, whether you allegedly murdered someone or you allegedly parked in such a way that you blocked the path of a street sweeper going by at 3 in the morning or anything in between. If the OP and the state find a middle ground between max penalty to the alleged violation and no penalty that's amenable to both sides, what's that to you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 hours ago, LeviF91 said: Is this the advice you'd give a family member or child of yours if they got caught up in something really bad and charged with multiple felonies? "Yes, junior, just tell the nice prosecutor everything that happened and pay the penalty of the next 20 years of your life. Really make sure they throw the book at you in the name of your citizenship." The American justice system works a certain way (for high crimes and misdemeanors as well as traffic violations) for a reason. He most likely will pay a penalty for his actions - it just won't be the penalty codified in the NYS VTL under what he actually did. The guilty plea to a lesser charge serves as a penalty to him for the actions that resulted in a ticket and as a cost savings to the municipality in which he committed the violation. You can accept responsibility without completely falling on your sword. This binary "accept the points on your license, the $600 fine, the $300 DMV fee for the points, 15 days in jail, and an increase in your insurance rates for the next 7 years or else you're a terrible person" line is a lazy take. This is not a lazy Take!....sometimes you should just admit you are wrong and move on. This is hardly falling on a sword ( just a little dramatic)...it is a lesson, no one got hurt by good luck. You sound so angry about a little ticket, I hope you are just as angry when someone really gets hurt because of this violation. Suck it up cupcake and confess, it is good for the soul. You should have thought of all the costs before driving the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 15 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: True. But if everybody drove up the cost of doing business. Get continuance, etc... It could clog the courts, cost them money and put a crimp on the traffic court scam of justice. BUT, it will cost you your time. They government knows that, why they don't make fines too oppressive. Everybody enters the racket, they keep you on a leash. Friends and family in the club get a pass. Epitome of crooked government. Why not move to a non-monetary system. That would actually promote safety. That will never happen, because they actually have to do something with you, like community service. Easier for them to bust into your bankbook and take food off a family's table because somebody made a mistake. That's the revolving door where the real money is. Nurse, bring the meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: And if the lawyer came back and said the court is offering a plea deal for a reduced fine and sentence, would you deny the deal and ask for the full punishment since your kid should "have the integrity to be accountable for their actions"? No because that is what the court recommended. Accountability and punishment would still be involved. For the OP if the police officer comes to court and indicates a less severe ticket is appropriate and the judge agrees, also fine. 1 hour ago, LeviF91 said: So why should the OP use the options he has built into the system any less than your child would? Pleading not guilty should be the default to ANY charge. The burden is entirely on the state to prove their case, whether you allegedly murdered someone or you allegedly parked in such a way that you blocked the path of a street sweeper going by at 3 in the morning or anything in between. If the OP and the state find a middle ground between max penalty to the alleged violation and no penalty that's amenable to both sides, what's that to you? The OP was 20 miles over the limit in a school zone and he knows it. To say you are not guilty is absurd. If the police officer comes to court and tells the judge he’s OK with a lower fine, OK by me. Trying to get away from a fine for something you know you did wrong is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The OP was 20 miles over the limit in a school zone and he knows it. To say you are not guilty is absurd. If the police officer comes to court and tells the judge he’s OK with a lower fine, OK by me. The scenario you describe cannot happen if OP pleads guilty by mail or before the judge to the alleged violation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: The scenario you describe cannot happen if OP pleads guilty by mail or before the judge to the alleged violation. Then maybe he should just realize he was wrong and pay the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 11 hours ago, shrader said: That's not really the question though. It's the COVID question. If school is open, but everyone is remote, are those school zones still in effect? I guess I might as well be asking about a tree falling in the woods with no one around. I could see a technicality being used to argue either direction on this one. But then again, if the school in question was actually open with students, that settles this question. There's so many different routines with the schools around here, better to be safe than sorry. Is this a school doing all remote? Or is it half class sizes? Was it just morning classes, or just afternoons? Is it Wednesday when everyone is remote? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Unfortunately, I get tickets often, so I pay a monthly fee for Prepaid Legal. The ONLY thing it's good for is speeding tickets. I make one call, forward documentation and send a money order. No points, no record -- nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: Unfortunately, I get tickets often, so I pay a monthly fee for Prepaid Legal. The ONLY thing it's good for is speeding tickets. I make one call, forward documentation and send a money order. No points, no record -- nada. Ha! I gotta ask, what are you driving? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 12 hours ago, SoTier said: So, what should happen to somebody who speeds or runs stop signs or breaks other traffic laws? Should he/she be jailed? Should we abandon all traffic rules? Fines are a reasonable balance between both extremes. Since driving is a necessity for most Americans, taking away a driver's license would be a far bigger penalty than a couple of hundred dollar fine. How about community service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Ha! I gotta ask, what are you driving? Genesis sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Greybeard said: What are you suggesting? 5 lashes, a day in jail? I have an elementary school behind me. Kids are being dropped off or picked up all day long. The school is on a residential street not a main drag. I guess it being residential means no flashing light. I slow down to at least 15 during school hours. There is no way I would want to hit a kid and you can never tell what a kid will do. That includes him holding his parent's hand along side of a road. School limits are about safety. I more less talking about the general racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: Genesis sedan. Ahh, those things have stealth speed. Although, I guess not so stealthy from the sound of it! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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