Melissa Etheridge, David Crosby and Julie Cypher's son dies

[bbb]

 

 

I still remember watching Weekend Update on SNL when they announced that David Crosby was the sperm donor.  I forget who was in the anchor chair, but he looks into the camera and says "They have heard of genetics, right?" 

[stuvian]

this doesn't sound good

[bbb]

2 hours ago, stuvian said:

this doesn't sound good

 

 

 

[Gugny]

I wish people in this country cared about addressing the opioid epidemic as much as it cares about Coronavirus.

 

RIP,  young man.

[DrDawkinstein]

Weird, my wife and I were just talking about that... donation, and their baby. Very sad news to hear this is how that story ends.

 

We'll keep them in our thoughts during our toddler's daily listen to Suite: Judy Blue Eyes. (btw, one of the greatest songs ever written? yes)

[Augie]

Horribly sad, but he is finally at peace. It’s a living hell when you are in the midst of opioid addiction. 

 

RIP

[bbb]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

(btw, one of the greatest songs ever written? yes)

 

YES! 

[RaoulDuke79]

Terrible.....this a very tough patch for addicts and recovering addicts. 

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Terrible.....this a very tough patch for addicts and recovering addicts. 

As an introvert I can’t really relate, but have to assume the level of damage we are doing to those who desperately rely on other people is going to be incalculable.

[RaoulDuke79]

8 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

As an introvert I can’t really relate, but have to assume the level of damage we are doing to those who desperately rely on other people is going to be incalculable.

Mental health (addiction included), was and should be at the forefront of social initiatives. Unfortunately it's another casualty of the Corona virus. The ramifications of this thing will far outweigh the death toll of the virus IMO.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Mental health (addiction included), was and should be at the forefront of social initiatives. Unfortunately it's another casualty of the Corona virus. The ramifications of this thing will far outweigh the death toll of the virus IMO.

Or make  people tougher:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8256573/Why-crisis-making-Snowflake-Generation.html

 

(I know it's  the Daily Mail... look past it.)

 

Look what the Great Depression did for  a generation 

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Or make  people tougher:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8256573/Why-crisis-making-Snowflake-Generation.html

 

(I know it's  the Daily Mail... look past it.)

 

Look what the Great Depression did for  a generation 

I think that many folks will acquire PTSD from this. I hope I am wrong but I'm all but sure that millions of people will get cases of long lasting PTSD that weren't there before the virus.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[Back2Buff]

9 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Mental health (addiction included), was and should be at the forefront of social initiatives. Unfortunately it's another casualty of the Corona virus. The ramifications of this thing will far outweigh the death toll of the virus IMO.

 

That is just not true.  COVID has killed over 80k in a couple months here, you just won't see that with suicide.

 

There is also a lot of kids that were in school that were getting bullied getting a relief now.  There are gives and takes with everything.

 

 

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that many folks will acquire PTSD from this. I hope I am wrong but I'm all but sure that millions of people will get cases of long lasting PTSD that weren't there before the virus.

 

I think you are 100% correct.  I lost my job ~6 years ago (layoff) and it turned my entire life upside down.  Ruined me financially for years.  I've bounced back, but I am never comfortable.  I will never feel secure in a job again.  I'm not saying I have PTSD.  Just pointing out that this pandemic is going to alter a lot of lives.

 

Even people who've been able to collect unemployment (with the $600 weekly kicker) may be able to go back to jobs from which they've been furloughed, or find new employment when things open up.  But when the IRS wants their money come tax time, many are going to be in for a shock and find themselves going up against owing the government money.  It's not pretty.  Even with a payment plan, penalties continue to accrue.

 

This is going to affect a lot of people for a very long time in ways that are not physical-health related.  Sad times.

[Bill from NYC]

37 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think you are 100% correct.  I lost my job ~6 years ago (layoff) and it turned my entire life upside down.  Ruined me financially for years.  I've bounced back, but I am never comfortable.  I will never feel secure in a job again.  I'm not saying I have PTSD.  Just pointing out that this pandemic is going to alter a lot of lives.

 

Even people who've been able to collect unemployment (with the $600 weekly kicker) may be able to go back to jobs from which they've been furloughed, or find new employment when things open up.  But when the IRS wants their money come tax time, many are going to be in for a shock and find themselves going up against owing the government money.  It's not pretty.  Even with a payment plan, penalties continue to accrue.

 

This is going to affect a lot of people for a very long time in ways that are not physical-health related.  Sad times.

I am unqualified to diagnose you but that sounds like a valid reason to have PTSD. In my untrained opinion, events like yours (and certainly relationship issues like divorce) are likely to cause PTSD.

Our country is GREAT. Maybe this sounds banal but it is true. Many are in such great financial shape that they have been able to keep their families insulated from things that soldiers, cops, firefighters EMTs, nurses, etc. have had to witness day in and day out. Thankfully, most people go through life without losing a child. Life was a breeze for many and I am sincerely happy for them. I mean this too, but now; many of these same people are walking around wearing a mask and a loved one is either in a hospital fighting for life or dead. I feel for them too because this type of horror is new to just so many.

I somehow had a genius daughter who went to an Ivy. Once during the summer her friend called to speak to her. The kid is a billionaire, sweet girl too. She was upset because she was in love with a guy who is gay, and did not know what to do. My daughter stayed on the phone with her for hours. She consoled her and told her to move on. The girl was traumatized. It occurred to me that this nice, rich, pretty kid probably never had much to worry about, ever. To her, this was a major problem which probably gave her PTSD.

Now compare her issue to yours. Am I making sense?

So in any event, yes; I think that there will be great times ahead for psychologists. Millions of people will need one imo, or at least will benefit by seeing one.

Sorry to ramble.

Jmo.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

49 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think you are 100% correct.  I lost my job ~6 years ago (layoff) and it turned my entire life upside down.  Ruined me financially for years.  I've bounced back, but I am never comfortable.  I will never feel secure in a job again.  I'm not saying I have PTSD.  Just pointing out that this pandemic is going to alter a lot of lives.

 

Even people who've been able to collect unemployment (with the $600 weekly kicker) may be able to go back to jobs from which they've been furloughed, or find new employment when things open up.  But when the IRS wants their money come tax time, many are going to be in for a shock and find themselves going up against owing the government money.  It's not pretty.  Even with a payment plan, penalties continue to accrue.

 

This is going to affect a lot of people for a very long time in ways that are not physical-health related.  Sad times.

Your response to your loss of job is a very realistic and understandable response. Through no fault of your own many aspects of your life were upended. Not having a job impacts one not only economically but socially and also one's family relationships. It's like one day you go to your doctor for a regular checkup and learn that you have cancer. It's not surprising that one's response is why did this happen to me? What did I do to deserve this? 

 

The one thing that often happens when people face life altering cataclysmic events is that it has an affect on one's outlook on life. Sometimes it embitters people. And  sometimes dealing with hardships changes one's outlook on life making one more empathetic to other peoples struggles. 

[Bill from NYC]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

 

The one thing that often happens when people face life altering cataclysmic events is that it has an affect on one's outlook on life. Sometimes it embitters people. And  sometimes dealing with hardships changes one's outlook on life making one more empathetic to other peoples struggles. 

And sometimes both.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

And sometimes both.

 

I can say with certainty that it changed me in both ways.

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that many folks will acquire PTSD from this. I hope I am wrong but I'm all but sure that millions of people will get cases of long lasting PTSD that weren't there before the virus.

Would  you say the "Silent Generation" has PTSD too.  I would say yes! 

 

Yet.   The Great Depression, living through it at a young age allowed the trauma of the eventd to channel the PTSD in positive  ways... MORE positive  ways.

 

Just like now.  The ability to save money and hunker down  away from the trappings of rampant  consumerism. My inlaws are a classic  example.  NOT missing  a beat  during these lockdowns.   Same here.  Its how I was raised.  

 

So... Basically, what I am saying... Channel the so-called  "negatives" into positive.  Everything  in life can be PTSD.

Edited May 15, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Would  you say the "Silent Generation" has PTSD too.  I would say yes! 

 

Yet.   The Great Depression, living through it at a young age allowed the trauma of the eventd to channel the PTSD in positive  ways... MORE positive  ways.

 

To some people who have already experienced events which led to PTSD, this pandemic is just another trauma to face. The people in New Orleans standing on a roof with their children, watching coffins float by and waiting for a helicopter probably think that Katrina was worse than Covid19. 

 

As I said earlier, we have millions of people in America who never faced what I would consider truama, and this is a good thing. That said, seemingly lesser events can be very trying for them. Covid19 welcomed them to an ugly world that for instance correction officers face every day.

 

Yes, it's a good time to be a psychologist, or so I think.

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[ExiledInIllinois]

10 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

To some people who have already experienced events which led to PTSD, this pandemic is just another trauma to face. The people in New Orleans standing on a roof with their children, watching coffins float by and waiting for a helicopter probably think that Katrina was worse than Covid19. 

 

As I said earlier, we have millions of people in America who never faced what I would consider truama, and this is a good thing. That said, seemingly lesser events can be very trying for them. Covid19 welcomed them to an ugly world that for instance correction officers face every day.

 

Yes, it's a good time to be a psychologist, or so I think.

 

 

 

2002 birth year. 

 

My daughter.  Conceived pre-911. Born post-911.  Now that  class of 2020... doesn't  get to walk  as high school grads. 

 

No prom.  Virtual graduation.  It does  really  suck.

 

For now... College is on hold.  Who knows what will be.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/15/2020 at 5:08 AM, Bill from NYC said:

I think that many folks will acquire PTSD from this. I hope I am wrong but I'm all but sure that millions of people will get cases of long lasting PTSD that weren't there before the virus.

 

A lot of health care professionals are battling PTSD, that's for damn sure.

[SoTier]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:03 AM, ExiledInIllinois said:

Or make  people tougher:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8256573/Why-crisis-making-Snowflake-Generation.html

 

(I know it's  the Daily Mail... look past it.)

 

Look what the Great Depression did for  a generation 

 

On 5/15/2020 at 5:26 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

Would  you say the "Silent Generation" has PTSD too.  I would say yes! 

 

Yet.   The Great Depression, living through it at a young age allowed the trauma of the eventd to channel the PTSD in positive  ways... MORE positive  ways.

 

Just like now.  The ability to save money and hunker down  away from the trappings of rampant  consumerism. My inlaws are a classic  example.  NOT missing  a beat  during these lockdowns.   Same here.  Its how I was raised.  

 

So... Basically, what I am saying... Channel the so-called  "negatives" into positive.  Everything  in life can be PTSD.

 

Today there's a tendency to romanticize the Great Depression and find many positives that stemmed from it, but millions of people died from starvation, domestic violence, addiction, suicide, disease, crime, etc.  It was a horrific experience for anybody who lived through it, and it scarred them forever.   For example, the extreme poverty many people experienced during the Depression turned many survivors into hoarders.  My father never, ever threw anything out.  My step-mother was just as bad.  They even saved used plastic bread bags to wrap things in rather than throwing them out even when they had collected so many that they could never use them all.

 

I don't buy the narrative that surviving the Great Depression enabled the American people to persevere through WW II.  It's a nice story but in reality the American people were very reluctant to commit to even helping Great Britain against the Nazi much less to actually going to war because so many were so disillusioned by their experience in WW I.  The attack on Pearl Harbor galvanized sentiment against Japan, but there wouldn't have been support for war against Germany if Hitler hadn't declared war on the US on December 11, 1941.  I suspect that the American people's response to WW II would have been exactly the same if the Great Depression had never occurred. 

 

On 5/15/2020 at 7:49 AM, Back2Buff said:

 

That is just not true.  COVID has killed over 80k in a couple months here, you just won't see that with suicide.

 

There is also a lot of kids that were in school that were getting bullied getting a relief now.  There are gives and takes with everything.

 

 

 

Mental health is more than just death from suicide.  As others have mentioned, PTSD is likely to be a permanent part of millions of people's lives because of the pandemic.  There's been a significant rise in domestic violence reports and  opioid deaths are also manifestations of how the isolation during the pandemic is impacting people's mental health.  I expect there probably has been increases in child abuse incidents as well.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by SoTier

[rockpile]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:59 AM, Gugny said:

 

I think you are 100% correct.  I lost my job ~6 years ago (layoff) and it turned my entire life upside down.  Ruined me financially for years.  I've bounced back, but I am never comfortable.  I will never feel secure in a job again.  I'm not saying I have PTSD.  Just pointing out that this pandemic is going to alter a lot of lives.

 

Even people who've been able to collect unemployment (with the $600 weekly kicker) may be able to go back to jobs from which they've been furloughed, or find new employment when things open up.  But when the IRS wants their money come tax time, many are going to be in for a shock and find themselves going up against owing the government money.  It's not pretty.  Even with a payment plan, penalties continue to accrue.

 

This is going to affect a lot of people for a very long time in ways that are not physical-health related.  Sad times.

 

I lost my job of 27 years, when my company dissolved our department. I collected unemployment, worked contract jobs, part time, etc. But, it taught me that the company does not give a rats ass about you. No bitterness, it is about profit and loss. This just made me refocus that MY future was up to me, but it was a wacky decade getting through it all.

 

I worry about the kids who miss their friends or are NOT receptive to the home schooling on a tablet classroom. They do not understand and some may never completely recover! If they are lucky they are in a healthy home with good parenting.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

Today there's a tendency to romanticize the Great Depression and find many positives that stemmed from it, but millions of people died from starvation, domestic violence, addiction, suicide, disease, crime, etc. 

 

There's also a tendency to exaggerate the effects of the great Depression.  I would like to understand your source for the "millions of people died from..." claim.
 

I'll go first....this well-researched peer-reviewed source states "We used historical life expectancy and mortality data to examine associations of economic growth with population health for the period 1920–1940. We conducted descriptive analyses of trends and examined associations between annual changes in health indicators and annual changes in economic activity using correlations and regression models. Population health did not decline and indeed generally improved during the 4 years of the Great Depression, 1930–1933, with mortality decreasing for almost all ages, and life expectancy increasing by several years in males, females, whites, and nonwhites. .......the recessions of 1921, 1930–1933, and 1938 coincided with declines in mortality and gains in life expectancy. The only exception was suicide mortality which increased during the Great Depression, but accounted for less than 2% of deaths. Correlation and regression analyses confirmed a significant negative effect of economic expansions on health gains. The evolution of population health during the years 1920–1940 confirms the counterintuitive hypothesis that, as in other historical periods and market economies, population health tends to evolve better during recessions than in expansions."

Deaths from suicide are tragedies. In 2017, 1.7% of US deaths were from suicide - horrid.  The suicide rate changed from 13 per 100,000 in 1929 to 17 per 100,000 in 1932 - an extra 5 deaths per 100,000 people is significant and tragic.  But the death of 5,000 people in a population of then-106 million people doesn't justify a claim that "millions of people died from...."

 

Quote

Mental health is more than just death from suicide.  As others have mentioned, PTSD is likely to be a permanent part of millions of people's lives because of the pandemic.  There's been a significant rise in domestic violence reports and  opioid deaths are also manifestations of how the isolation during the pandemic is impacting people's mental health.  I expect there probably has been increases in child abuse incidents as well.

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this - please respect the request not to turn every thread into a covid-19 thread.  But I think we need to be careful, as is being done in some places, to conflate effects of the pandemic with effects of public health mitigation efforts resulting from the pandemic.

 

For example, suicide has been linked closely to unemployment rates.  Clearly, viable businesses that could re-open and employ people have been closed.  But others depend for economic health upon more complex factors.  If restaurants or movie theaters or gyms open, but fewer people patronize them, due to health concerns or budget concerns, they will still struggle.  If a business re-opens but has supply chain issues because of global pandemic impacts and thus increased costs, or doesn't have many customers or must cut sale prices, likewise.  It's just unclear to me that ending closures will heal economic woes while the pandemic is still present.

[Gugny]

18 minutes ago, rockpile said:

 

I lost my job of 27 years, when my company dissolved our department. I collected unemployment, worked contract jobs, part time, etc. But, it taught me that the company does not give a rats ass about you. No bitterness, it is about profit and loss. This just made me refocus that MY future was up to me, but it was a wacky decade getting through it all.

 

I worry about the kids who miss their friends or are NOT receptive to the home schooling on a tablet classroom. They do not understand and some may never completely recover! If they are lucky they are in a healthy home with good parenting.

 

Amen to all of this, brother.  I hope you and yours are well.

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's also a tendency to exaggerate the effects of the great Depression.  I would like to understand your source for the "millions of people died from..." claim.
 

I'll go first....this well-researched peer-reviewed source states "We used historical life expectancy and mortality data to examine associations of economic growth with population health for the period 1920–1940. We conducted descriptive analyses of trends and examined associations between annual changes in health indicators and annual changes in economic activity using correlations and regression models. Population health did not decline and indeed generally improved during the 4 years of the Great Depression, 1930–1933, with mortality decreasing for almost all ages, and life expectancy increasing by several years in males, females, whites, and nonwhites. .......the recessions of 1921, 1930–1933, and 1938 coincided with declines in mortality and gains in life expectancy. The only exception was suicide mortality which increased during the Great Depression, but accounted for less than 2% of deaths. Correlation and regression analyses confirmed a significant negative effect of economic expansions on health gains. The evolution of population health during the years 1920–1940 confirms the counterintuitive hypothesis that, as in other historical periods and market economies, population health tends to evolve better during recessions than in expansions."

Deaths from suicide are tragedies. In 2017, 1.7% of US deaths were from suicide - horrid.  The suicide rate changed from 13 per 100,000 in 1929 to 17 per 100,000 in 1932 - an extra 5 deaths per 100,000 people is significant and tragic.  But the death of 5,000 people in a population of then-106 million people doesn't justify a claim that "millions of people died from...."

 

 

My statement was "millions of people died from starvation, domestic violence, addiction, suicide, disease, crime, etc.", and I think that that's accurate over the span of what is generally considered "the Great Depression" by historians as starting in late 1929 and lasting until at least through 1939 when an increase in defense spending finally brought real recovery.  Tapia Garandos' 1930-1933 time span for the Great Depression is ahistorical and seems to have been used to make the data fit his thesis: if the period between 1934 and 1937 is considered a recovery like the one after 1921, then the period between 1930-1933 can be considered similar.  Historians, however, estimate that unemployment between 1930 and 1939 never fell below about 20% (actual unemployment statistics weren't tracked or calculated at the time).  Moreover, some of the causes of death that I mentioned like disease -- there was an increase in the incidence of tuberculosis during the 1930s -- don't necessarily happen quickly, and other causes, like domestic violence, weren't tracked. 

[rockpile]

On 5/18/2020 at 11:55 AM, Gugny said:

 

Amen to all of this, brother.  I hope you and yours are well.

 

Same to you, brother! We are managing well. I hope you are too!