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Phil The Thrill

EJ Manuel Reflects On His Career As The Bills Future QB

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Could've, would've, should've won that game.  Bills had the game won and the defense lost it in the end.  Plus, Sam took a nice vacation in London while his teammates played a football game.

 

That was EJ's best and worst game all in one. He was down right terrible in the first half. Brought us back in the second half with the help of a pick six as well.

 

I can't get behind EJ being better than Tyrod. In fact for me, EJ might rank behind everyone except Losman in-terms of QB's that started at least 16 or more games for the Bills  since Jim Kelly retired.

 

Did Tyrod kick your dog or something Gungy?

Edited by Sammy Watkins' Rib

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7 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Most importantly, he was not a gamer - not a competitor like Allen. Allen wants it - could never see it in Manuel.

This!!!

 I liked EJ. I really wanted him to succeed.

When that whole thing happened with him not being a Captain and the way he was kind of hurt/ cool with it, I started to get that sinking feeling.

EJ was not the kinda guy to run through a brick wall.

Josh, also nice, has that quality. If he ever has to lay someone out, he’s going to do it without thinking. He doesn’t have any quit in him. It can’t be taught or coached .

And yet, the kid is smart and can be taught , is coach able , and clearly has a great work ethic.

He just needs reps and weapons.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

 

Which they once again repeated with the dynamic duo of AJ McCaron and Peterman.  Which Allen was able to survive that 2018 year.  Watching the Bills handle the qb position is way too stressful which is why I desperately cling to Josh being the 10+ year high end starter

 

Good call on McCaron Ducky, he completely flamed out. 

 

Even with Beane and McDermott, the Bills protect their starting QB's with no competition. 

 

Tyler Thigpen, Brian Brohm, Jeff Tuel, Gilbran Hamdan, Thad Lewis, Matt Barkley. Right now Jameis Winston and Cam Newton are out there, and the Bills wouldn't dream of signing them because of the threat that would imply on Josh Allen.

 

And I get it, you don't want to spend more on a backup than your starter, but Edwards, Fitzpatrick, EJ, Tyrod and now Josh have the weakest backups imaginable. 

Edited by Straight Hucklebuck
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9 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

That was EJ's best and worst game all in one. He was down right terrible in the first half. Brought us back in the second half with the help of a pick six as well.

 

I can't get behind EJ being better than Tyrod. In fact for me, EJ might rank behind everyone except Losman in-terms of QB's that started at least 16 or more games for the Bills  since Jim Kelly retired.

 

Did Tyrod kick your dog or something Gungy?

 

I don't want to turn an EJ thread into a Tyrod thread.

 

So I'll just say that EJ didn't divide the locker room.  EJ didn't quit when the going got tough.  EJ never pulled out the race card.  EJ was a true pro.  He wasn't the best QB ... he wasn't even a good QB ... but he was always professional and he always gave everything he had.  He never blamed others - especially hiding behind the color of his skin, even though he was put into a crap situation from day one.  And for that ... I respect EJ.

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3 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

 

Which they once again repeated with the dynamic duo of AJ McCaron and Peterman.  Which Allen was able to survive that 2018 year.  Watching the Bills handle the qb position is way too stressful which is why I desperately cling to Josh being the 10+ year high end starter


It’s a bit of a different situation, though there are similarities.

 

In 2013, the Bills signed Kevin Kolb an unproven QB with a track record of concussions and injuries.   He was a 5th year starter. No one else outside of EJ.  Once he was hurt, they didn’t bother signing anyone else and rolled with Jeff Tuel.  They did bring in Thad Lewis who was almost as inexperienced.

 

In 2018, the Bills signed AJ McCarron.  Again, an unproven 4th year QB, but one that they thought could give them capable QB player and mentor their rookie.  They also had Peterman, and as bad as he look in the regular season, actually put together a decent preseason.

 

The problem rumoured problem was, McCarron didn’t want to be a backup and wasn’t as enthusiastic about mentoring Josh as they had hoped.  So they started Peterman thinking he could get them through half a season.  1st game was a nightmare and it took them weeks to bring in a veteran QB.

 

Beane admits this was a mistake.  They should have brought in Derek Anderson earlier.  They did get him in, but it was too late.
 

Whaley and Good Old Buddy Nix never bothered to sign a veteran until Kyle Orton in 2014

 

 

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Just now, Gugny said:

 

I don't want to turn an EJ thread into a Tyrod thread.

 

So I'll just say that EJ didn't divide the locker room.  EJ didn't quit when the going got tough.  EJ never pulled out the race card.  EJ was a true pro.  He wasn't the best QB ... he wasn't even a good QB ... but he was always professional and he always gave everything he had.  He never blamed others - especially hiding behind the color of his skin, even though he was put into a crap situation from day one.  And for that ... I respect EJ.

 

I see the angle in which you are looking at them. While those points may or may not be true, pretty much none of them relate to the topic of who was the better QB on the field. Who was able to more consistently make the plays that needed to be made to win the game? 

 

I have a lot of respect for EJ as well as a person. And yeah maybe more than Tyord as a person. EJ is a great guy. But his QB skills were terrible.

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5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The structure around EJ was ridiculous.

 

A 73 year old GM, a rookie HC, rookie OC, who also doubled as the QB Coach, Kevin Kolb after his failure in Arizona, with Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis. 


But it has to be noted: 

 

He had a Coach that punted from the Pittsburgh 36-yard line, down by two scores, in the 4th quarter with a 3-6 record.

 

Also, Florida State went from 8-4 to winning the National Championship when EJ left.

 

Listening to Doug Whaley talk about EJ’s presence when talking to the season ticket holders, but never once mentioning how EJ actually threw a football. 

 


Situations like this is why I have a much lower regard for the work of Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley.  Some people here feel that Whaley did a great job and was a victim.  They also feel that Nix did a decent job.

 

I disagree on both greatly.  The plan they developed for the most important position on the field is dreadful.  This will bring back nightmares!

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I feel kind of bad for EJ.  He was the best QB in a very poor, very shallow class.  Someone was going to take him if Buffalo didn't and I doubt the result would have been much different if he was the starter.  That whole class needed to remain backups and not see the field much.  I know he was behind Kolb, who was a concussion away from mush; EJ starting was only a matter of time.  Starting did him in, as did Geno Smith.

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4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I see the angle in which you are looking at them. While those points may or may not be true, pretty much none of them relate to the topic of who was the better QB on the field. Who was able to more consistently make the plays that needed to be made to win the game? 

 

I have a lot of respect for EJ as well as a person. And yeah maybe more than Tyord as a person. EJ is a great guy. But his QB skills were terrible.

 

They both sucked.  Tyrod had years to do something and all he did was suck.  EJ didn't have those kinds of unchallenged chances.

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1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Situations like this is why I have a much lower regard for the work of Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley.  Some people here feel that Whaley did a great job and was a victim.  They also feel that Nix did a decent job.

 

I disagree on both greatly.  The plan they developed for the most important position on the field is dreadful.  This will bring back nightmares!

 

The 2010 offseason where Nix took over was the most embarrassing offseason I've ever seen. 

 

From the Russ Brandon "scanned a list of names" press conference, the Kelsay extension, the Marshawn Lynch trade, switching to the 3-4 defense, hiring Chan Gailey who was out of football, keeping both of Dick Jauron's failed Quarterbacks, a horrendous draft where almost all the capital was spent on 3-4 players who stunk and starting Trent AGAIN. 

12 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Beane admits this was a mistake.  They should have brought in Derek Anderson earlier.  They did get him in, but it was too late.
 

I forgot all about Derek Anderson already. 

 

Another player who was in retirement when the Bills came a calling. 

 

Man the Bills dumpster dive when it comes to QB historically. 

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1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

They both sucked.  Tyrod had years to do something and all he did was suck.  EJ didn't have those kinds of unchallenged chances.

 

EJ did get the short end of the stick iin that before his final game in 2016 against the Jets he had only started exactly 16 games through three seasons. That's not really any opportunity. But just going on what I saw from him in those starts I had very little faith he would have been an even an ounce better than Losman's 33 starts for the Bills. 

 

EJ did look good in the 2015 pre-season (as well as Tyrod) but we really can't put much stock into that. What could have been? But then look at Peterman. He looked like the MVP of the pre-season two years ago and then we all saw him fall on his face again for the second time.

 

We can make excuses for both players but at the end of the day one won a lot more games and had way better numbers. Those are really the only tangible things we can go by. But Tyrod has certainly been on a downward tragectory ever since his arrival in Buffalo down to his abysmal play in his final season here and and even worse outings since in Cleveland. At this point with 46 starts under his belt he almost certainly has more bad games then EJ has in total.

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He was a good guy, but I hear a lot of excuses there. Even when things were not adversarial, he just didn't perform. Look at Josh Allen in comparison. Manuel had the raw talent on par with Allen and  had a bigger pedigree coming out out of FL State than Josh Allen has, but those guys are light years apart. 

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2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

EJ was never going to make it.  He was missing TJ Graham by  10 or 15 yards on all verticle routes  early years.  He had a few good games, but, I will never forget the fiasco in London.  EJ, like Losman, did not have the head for the game imho.  A decade wasted on those two guys.  And, then there was Todd Collins......oh, never mind.  (a failure in Buffalo but 15 years in the league)

A decade wasted on those 2 guys?

 

Ej Manuel started like 15 games. He was yanked very early even tho it was warranted

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SF Bills Fan said:

He was a good guy, but I hear a lot of excuses there. Even when things were not adversarial, he just didn't perform. Look at Josh Allen in comparison. Manuel had the raw talent on par with Allen and  had a bigger pedigree coming out out of FL State than Josh Allen has, but those guys are light years apart. 

 

I think the difference is found between the ears.  Josh has that competitive drive and is more resilient, where EJ just lost all confidence when things didn't go as planned/anticipated. 

2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Situations like this is why I have a much lower regard for the work of Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley.  Some people here feel that Whaley did a great job and was a victim.  They also feel that Nix did a decent job.

 

I disagree on both greatly.  The plan they developed for the most important position on the field is dreadful.  This will bring back nightmares!

 

What was Whaley supposed to do?  Nix backed Whaley in a corner that draft, Buffalo had no QB.  Nix had a trolled conversation with the "Bucs GM" basically not committing to Fitz.  Nix also mentioned drafting a QB the next year.  Unfortunately, EJ was the best of a very bad QB class.

Edited by Happy Gilmore

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Mental toughness is one of the most important traits a QB can have. EJ did not have it. 

 

Thankfully, Josh has it.

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Posted (edited)

He always came across as a great person and by happenstance also Bruce Smith's god son I believe which is pretty cool. He also had a great last minute come back game against at the time a decent Carolina team. But he was not ready to be a starter and definitely not ready on day one. It is also too bad we were in need of a QB in the wrong year of 2013. That was probably one of the  worst QB classes in the last 20 years.

Edited by Leonhart2017

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I'll say this: the pick itself was defensible given that Buffalo needed to fill the position in 2013 and they managed to trade down and get the best QB in the class. 

 

The issue was that EJ is probably the worst QB I've ever seen outside of Peterman once he got on the field and Buffalo probably stuck with him too long and even traded up for Watkins the next season. Sometimes you don't need to see much out of a player to realize you made a mistake.

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3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

They both sucked.  Tyrod had years to do something and all he did was suck.  EJ didn't have those kinds of unchallenged chances.

 

Didn't Tyrod post the highest passer rating out of any QB since Kelly during his time here?  I know all those QBs sucked to some degree, but he was probably the most serviceable starter we had between Allen and Kelly.  

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3 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think the difference is found between the ears.  Josh has that competitive drive and is more resilient, where EJ just lost all confidence when things didn't go as planned/anticipated. 

 

What was Whaley supposed to do?  Nix backed Whaley in a corner that draft, Buffalo had no QB.  Nix had a trolled conversation with the "Bucs GM" basically not committing to Fitz.  Nix also mentioned drafting a QB the next year.  Unfortunately, EJ was the best of a very bad QB class.


Maybe so, but what Nix and Whaley could have done is not get into this position in the first place where they needed to draft a QB and where there weren’t any backups. 

 

Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole of bad decisions by the regime when it comes to QB?

 

They easily could have made a number of different moves the season prior or in the offseason to make moves to bring in more competition at QB in both 2012 (after they signed Fitzpatrick to starter money and decided he wasn’t a starter) and 2013.  Of course, their only solution to sign an injury-probe backup.

 

To suggest that drafting EJ, a 4th round prospect in the 1st round, was their only option is foolhardy.  Nix and Whaley were bad GM’s and their records reflect that.
 

 

3 hours ago, y2zipper said:

I'll say this: the pick itself was defensible given that Buffalo needed to fill the position in 2013 and they managed to trade down and get the best QB in the class. 

 

The issue was that EJ is probably the worst QB I've ever seen outside of Peterman once he got on the field and Buffalo probably stuck with him too long and even traded up for Watkins the next season. Sometimes you don't need to see much out of a player to realize you made a mistake.


Over-drafting a 3rd/4th round QB in the middle of round 1 is never defensible.

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We tend to be pretty unforgiving of 1st rounders who don't pan out as promised. It's like a Bills tradition (though I know other teams do it as well).

 

EJ wasn't very good, but let's face it:  Buffalo was NOT a place for QB's to develop for the vast majority of the 2000's.  We had all kinds of QB's come through that revolving door - experienced vets, promising youngsters, other team's cast-offs...the works.  None made it.  During the drought years, after Moulds/Price, we were never a hotbed of receiving talent, better than below-average line play, or decent coaching.

 

Obviously, things have changed, but I really have no bad feelings about EJ, and it was nice to read that he's in a good place. It's not his fault that the Bills reached.

 

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