Rosenthal: True QB value rankings from 1-35

[Bangarang]

37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You mean like beating Dallas on Thanksgiving or topping the Steelers on the road on national TV to clinch a playoff berth? Yeah, I'd love to see that.

Allen’s game against the Steelers wow’d you? 

[billrooter]

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mark Sanchez had 9 game winning drives in a 2 year period.  Without context, the stat kinda sucks. Qbs that play on teams with really good defenses have more a chance for GWDs.  It could be argued with more consistent offense and our easy schedule, there were a bunch of games that could have been over before the 4th quarter.  
 

and Jackson has 16 more passing tds than Allen.

Was not comparing him to Jackson, after last season and hopefully only up till this point there is no comparison, only saying they should factor one of his biggest positives into the equation as well. Josh Allens passer rating by quarter 71, 87.3, 76.2, and 102.7, tells me three things he needs to get alot more consistent, plays better when in the flow of the game and he is typically much better when the game is on the line. Is that better for context?

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, billrooter said:

Was not comparing him to Jackson, after last season and hopefully only up till this point there is no comparison, only saying they should factor one of his biggest positives into the equation as well. Josh Allens passer rating by quarter 71, 87.3, 76.2, and 102.7, tells me three things he needs to get alot more consistent, plays better when in the flow of the game and he is typically much better when the game is on the line. Is that better for context?

Good post.  I like it.  I would like to see a breakdown of it compared to other qbs for context though.  

[billrooter]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post.  I like it.  I would like to see a breakdown of it compared to other qbs for context though.  

LOL, I had a hard enough time configuring that, I am not tech savvy at all. Maybe the Mahomes fan can?

[PromoTheRobot]

50 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Allen’s game against the Steelers wow’d you? 

 

Yeah. A lesser QB would have crumpled under the pressure. Not every game is a work of art. All that matters is the W. But I get it. The goalposts keep moving for Allen. He reaches one benchmark, then it's "oh, but what about this?"

[BigBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Yeah. A lesser QB would have crumpled under the pressure. Not every game is a work of art. All that matters is the W. But I get it. The goalposts keep moving for Allen. He reaches one benchmark, then it's "oh, but what about this?"

 

If the goalpost is to survive through a great defensive performance against an undrafted QB the world is upside down. Do you think he gets the "W" (as if QBs get Ws) if Big Ben played? Let me remind you he was 13-25 for 139 yards and Duck threw 4 INTs.

 

If that's the goalpost than he's not a competent starter.

[Bangarang]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Yeah. A lesser QB would have crumpled under the pressure.

 

Is that what your crystal ball told you?
 

Quote

 

Not every game is a work of art. All that matters is the W. But I get it. The goalposts keep moving for Allen. He reaches one benchmark, then it's "oh, but what about this?"

What goalposts are you referring to? 
 

I can’t help but roll my eyes to anyone who was  WOWd by a largely mediocre performance. Just seems like you’re trying too hard to convince yourself about how good Allen is.
 

I’ve been wow’d by Allen quite a bit in 2 years and the Steelers game definitely wasn’t one of them. It was however a wow game for Tre White and the defense.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Bangarang

[2003Contenders]

Here is the thing that keeps getting over-looked by all of these "experts", especially the ones that more or less simply use stats to make their case rather than watching the games: Josh Allen is a throw-back QB. That is, he plays much more like the QBs from days past.  Kenny Stabler comes to mind in terms of his playing style. Physically, Allen is as talented as any QB who has played in the league since Elway and Favre. Favre had the luxury of playing in a West Coast style offense with some of the greatest supporting coaches in the history of the league (Holmgren, Reid, Mooch, Gruden, etc.) for most of his career. Elway hit his stride in his final years with the likes of Fossil and Shanahan finally figuring out how to reign him in. Before that, Elway was largely an un-molded piece of clay, much like Josh is now.

 

Josh Allen remains a polarizing QB -- and he entered the league as such. Classic scouts viewed him as a generational physical specimen, with many (Kiper, Simms and others) believing he was a justified 1st overall selection in the draft. The modern analytics guys preferred Mayfield and Rosen, who posted better numbers at the college level. After two seasons in the league, Allen's performances to date have justified both camps' evaluations. Josh has clearly shown the physical talent that the scouts raved about -- and, if anything, his mobility in particular has been an even better-than-advertised trait.  Meanwhile, the lack of consistency and less-than-ideal accuracy have allowed the detractors to hang around in stride.

 

The good news is that he HAS shown improvement during his short time in the league. Remember, the pre-injury versus the post-injury Josh Allen during his rookie season. Last year, remember the Josh Allen before the first Patriots game where he tried too often to play "hero ball" versus the guy after that game who normally took pretty good care of the ball. For the analytics guys, it is certainly worth noting the improvement in completion percentage that we saw from 2018 to 2019. The biggest problem for him last year was actually being unable to connect consistently on the deep ball, which he has reportedly been working on since the season ended. I doubt that he will ever be a pinpoint passer a la Drew Brees who consistently connects on  70% of his passes. However, with the other things he brings to the table, Josh Allen will play at a high level in this league if he can bump that completion percentage up to around 60% and connect more regularly on the deep passes.

 

One last point I wanted to make... and it has to do with what is actually being asked of Allen. Like Allen, a throw-back QB, Sean McD is also a throw-back coach. He ascribes to the old tried-and-true mantra of building your team with a strong defense, pounding the ball on offense, keeping the score close, and asking the offense to make just enough plays in the 4th quarter to pull it out. I doubt that we will ever see Josh participate in very many shoot-outs, as that simply is not the style of play that McD prefers. So those grumbling about Josh having yet to pass for 300 yards in a game have to take this into consideration. That said, I would love to see Josh show that he CAN win such a game if placed in the position of having to do so.

 

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If we were the Pats, our board would look exactly like a Pats board where we defended everything our team did and say it was fake news! And everyone is just jealous of us.  Sad but true!

But did you see how clean JP Losman made Buffalo that one time!  

When I was a youngster I thought that way...

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Don Otreply

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Is that what your crystal ball told you?
 

What goalposts are you referring to? 
 

I can’t help but roll my eyes to anyone who was  WOWd by a largely mediocre performance. Just seems like you’re trying too hard to convince yourself about how good Allen is.
 

I’ve been wow’d by Allen quite a bit in 2 years and the Steelers game definitely wasn’t one of them. It was however a wow game for Tre White and the defense.

If you weren’t wowed by the whole team against Pitt, Allen included, in that situation...I don’t know what to tell you. That game was massive.

[Bangarang]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If you weren’t wowed by the whole team against Pitt, Allen included, in that situation...I don’t know what to tell you. That game was massive.

The game was a big one but Allen’s performance wasn’t wow worthy to me. 
 

Thanksgiving was much more of a wow moment for Allen. 

[GoBills808]

45 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

The game was a big one but Allen’s performance wasn’t wow worthy to me. 
 

Thanksgiving was much more of a wow moment for Allen. 

Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively.

 

Being mediocre against a good defense doesn’t wow me. 
 

Carving up a good Cowboy’s defense, albeit with some injuries, and playing great on what I would consider a much bigger stage does wow me.

[Johnnycage46]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively.

 

It's hard to argue with people who have already resigned themselves to a position.  There are many "fans" here that will never like Allen, plain and simple.  Not sure what it is.  They all "like" each others posts so it's easy to spot them lol.

 

Some people just want to be upset as fans; maybe because it's all they have known during their fanhood and might be nervous to give in and just enjoy the ride for fear of getting hurt again.

 

Who knows!

Edited April 18, 2020 by Johnnycage46

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Being mediocre against a good defense doesn’t wow me. 
 

Carving up a good Cowboy’s defense, albeit with some injuries, and playing great on what I would consider a much bigger stage does wow me.

Steelers game was way bigger than Cowboys. They wanted to win in Dallas on Thanksgiving, they NEEDED to win in Pitt.

[Bangarang]

Just now, Johnnycage46 said:

 

It's hard to argue with people who have already resigned themselves to a position.  There are many "fans" here that will never like Allen, plain and simple.  Not sure what it is.  They all "like" each others' posts so its easy to spot them lol.

 

I like Allen and the only position I have is that he needs to continue improving. I’m pretty sure nobody would disagree with that. 

 

Just now, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Some people just want to be upset as fans; maybe because its all they have known during their fanhood and might be nervous to give in and just enjoy the ride for fear of getting hurt again.

 

Who knows!

Who is upset? Honestly, I don’t even know what you’re rambling about. 

[BigBillsFan]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively.

 

I think the 139 yards on 25 attempts with 1 TD and 1 INT is what we focus on. Being a top QB means having a good game against better defenses.

 

If the new measure is the other defense was really good so therefore he's fine is not a standard at all.

 

On the other hand all QBs have bad games 1-2 times a year and everyone should have that attitude. But he played horrible that game.

 

The only reason we won that game is Hodges threw 4 INTs and played like garbage. If you think the score would have been 17-10 with Ben in there then you realize they couldn't score with inferior talent at QB and it's more of a reflection of turn-overs than anything Allen did. Pitt scored 10 points 3 games in a row. They were garbage on offense.

 

1 minute ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Some people just want to be upset as fans; maybe because its all they have known during their fanhood and might be nervous to give in and just enjoy the ride for fear of getting hurt again.

 

Who knows!

 

You should have had a 900 number in the 90's and hung out with Ms. Cleo as mind-reading is certainly a trait of people who blindly defend poor play. I notice the same traits as the Allen is a divinity crowd liking each other posts, but you seem to miss that part in your Vulcan mind-meld with us upset, nervous fearful "she's going to leave me" fans.

 

Live long and prosper.

[GoBills808]

Just now, BigBillsFan said:

 

I think the 139 yards on 25 attempts with 1 TD and 1 INT is what we focus on. Being a top QB means having a good game against better defenses.

 

That's because you didn't watch the game lmao

 

or you'd know that the INT bounced off both Beasley's hands, who dropped several passes that game

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Steelers game was way bigger than Cowboys. They wanted to win in Dallas on Thanksgiving, they NEEDED to win in Pitt.

I disagree. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Bangarang said:

I disagree. 

[Johnnycage46]

8 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I think the 139 yards on 25 attempts with 1 TD and 1 INT is what we focus on. Being a top QB means having a good game against better defenses.

 

If the new measure is the other defense was really good so therefore he's fine is not a standard at all.

 

On the other hand all QBs have bad games 1-2 times a year and everyone should have that attitude. But he played horrible that game.

 

The only reason we won that game is Hodges threw 4 INTs and played like garbage. If you think the score would have been 17-10 with Ben in there then you realize they couldn't score with inferior talent at QB and it's more of a reflection of turn-overs than anything Allen did. Pitt scored 10 points 3 games in a row. They were garbage on offense.

 

 

You should have had a 900 number in the 90's and hung out with Ms. Cleo as mind-reading is certainly a trait of people who blindly defend poor play. I notice the same traits as the Allen is a divinity crowd liking each other posts, but you seem to miss that part in your Vulcan mind-meld with us upset, nervous fearful "she's going to leave me" fans.

 

Live long and prosper.

 

How do you know I didn't?

 

Also, good self awareness on outing yourself as one of the malcontents.

 

May the Force Be With You (never much of a Star Trek guy...seemed super nerdy to me)

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

I like Allen and the only position I have is that he needs to continue improving. I’m pretty sure nobody would disagree with that. 

 

Who is upset? Honestly, I don’t even know what you’re rambling about. 

I guess you are?  I don't even know who you are and never mentioned you in my post...so, not sure.  And I don't believe the post of mine that you latched onto like a lamprey qualifies as "rambling".

 

Carry on.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I guess you are? 

 

Wrong

 

9 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I don't even know who you are and never mentioned you in my post...so, not sure.  And I don't believe the post of mine that you latched onto like a lamprey qualifies as "rambling".

 

Carry on.

You never mentioned me but you felt the need to introduce yourself into a discussion I was involved in and take indirect shots at me. Don’t cower away now just because I called you out on it. 
 

If you disagree with me then come have a seat at the adult table and we can discuss it. If you’d rather lurk in the shadows, take shots and then run away then I guess that’s also an option. Whichever you prefer I suppose.

[Johnnycage46]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Wrong

 

You never mentioned me but you felt the need to introduce yourself into a discussion I was involved in and take indirect shots at me. Don’t cower away now just because I called you out on it. 
 

If you disagree with me then come have a seat at the adult table and we can discuss it. If you’d rather lurk in the shadows, take shots and then run away then I guess that’s also an option. Whichever you prefer I suppose.

 

So what would you like to discuss bud?  I'm all for adult tables (whatever that is).

 

[BigBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

How do you know I didn't?

 

Also, good self awareness on outing yourself as one of the malcontents.

 

May the Force Be With You (never much of a Star Trek guy...seemed super nerdy to me)

I guess you are?  I don't even know who you are and never mentioned you in my post...so, not sure.  And I don't believe the post of mine that you latched onto like a lamprey qualifies as "rambling".

 

Carry on.

 

At least you have a good sense of humor. I appreciate that.

 

But you see I was pointing out the hypocrisy of using labels. You can't claim people are "malcontents" without proof. If a person says Allen struggles, he's not a complete QB, they aren't malcontents. That's just a lazy weak way of insulting people.

 

And everything you accuse "malcontents" of I could accuse you part of the Little Miss Sunshine Group (formerly called the Village People) that does that tribal pow-pow around arguments rather than dispel them. They have their rituals as one shaman uses mind-reading, then the witch doctor curses them as wanting Allen to fail, and then the proud scouts scream HATER!

 

I mean it's dumb. Imagine if a "malcontent" inverted that logic the same way.
"What you don't like good QB play? You want the Bills to fail!!!"
"You hate the Bills because you love Josh Allen!"

"The reason why Allen apologists act out in such scared, fearful ways is deep down inside they are afraid the Bills aren't ready to play teams above .500 and have a decent chance so instead they unleash their venom on the objective fans"

This is lazy and dishonest arguing. It's what I expect from my 8 yr old.

 

And then when they are all done they just say "Just sayin" which is equivalent of flipping someone off and then getting offended if there is a reply.

 

[Johnnycage46]

1 minute ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

At least you have a good sense of humor. I appreciate that.

 

But you see I was pointing out the hypocrisy of using labels. You can't claim people are "malcontents" without proof. If a person says Allen struggles, he's not a complete QB, they aren't malcontents. That's just a lazy weak way of insulting people.

 

And everything you accuse "malcontents" of I could accuse you part of the Little Miss Sunshine Group (formerly called the Village People) that does that tribal pow-pow around arguments rather than dispel them. They have their rituals as one shaman uses mind-reading, then the witch doctor curses them as wanting Allen to fail, and then the proud scouts scream HATER!

 

I mean it's dumb. Imagine if a "malcontent" inverted that logic the same way.
"What you don't like good QB play? You want the Bills to fail!!!"
"You hate the Bills because you love Josh Allen!"

"The reason why Allen apologists act out in such scared, fearful ways is deep down inside they are afraid the Bills aren't ready to play teams above .500 and have a decent chance so instead they unleash their venom on the objective fans"

This is lazy and dishonest arguing. It's what I expect from my 8 yr old.

 

And then when they are all done they just say "Just sayin" which is equivalent of flipping someone off and then getting offended if there is a reply.

 

 

I call the construction worker!!

 

I agree with you.  There are camps of thought all over this landscape.  Not fair on my part to paint with such a broad brush.  

 

But at least I didn't say "just sayin"!!!

[Billl]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:44 PM, FLFan said:

Any ranking that has Gardner Minshew ahead of Allen, in fact not in the bottom feeder category, is mortally flawed from the jump.  What an idiot.  

If Joe Burrow starts 12 games next year and throws for 3300 yards, 21 TDs and 6 INTs, he will exceed expectations.  Of course Minshew is above Allen.  He’s way ahead of Allen.  

[Billl]

10 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Honestly, I’m so tired of hearing about how our QBs are hard working or good people.
 

The only thing that matters to me is how good they are on Sundays. 

He’s literally said he’d rather be good at playing football than bad at playing football.  What more do you need?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

When factoring age and ability the only QB's I would take over Allen are Mahomes, Wilson and Watson.  Would almost throw Murray in there too. But would leave it at those three for now. This is a scenario where I am a GM that is looking for a franchise QB for the next 10 years.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[Yav]

11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

139 yards passing with 1 td and 1 int is a wow game?  We won that game because of our defense and Duck throwing ducks (?).  
 

physical talent, he’s top 10 without a doubt.  But in terms of production, he’s kinda where he should be.  He is a game manager who is capable of explosive plays.  Next step is being maddeningly consistent.  He’s got a bunch of weapons now so it will be cool to see if he gets there.

With all due respect, this is a very hot, skip bayless type take.  “How many Super Bowls has Pat Mahomes won? Just 1?  And he’s been in the league 3 years?  I rest my case.  Overrated!!!”

Josh Allen is the only qb in the nfl that works hard and cares about winning.  Facts.  

Dude wasn’t even MVP of that game, but sure you can have you opinion, but in the fashion of this board I should call you names and tell you how dumb you are for not agreeing with me....but I realize I’m better than that and you can think he’s top 5 all you want he’s not in my top 5 or 6

11 hours ago, billrooter said:

Wow, first up I said what are you smoking crack (was trying to be funny) never called you a crackhead though. You lived in KC for 12 years, so whats your point Mahomes career stats 65.9 career completion percentage 76 tds and 18 interceptions and 9,412 yards, sorry he doesn't pass your genius eye test.

He under throws the balm to the best skill position players in the game, doesn’t take a genius to see that, but hey cool story bro, I guess you’re like all the rest on here and can’t handle

someone with a different opinion. 
 

good day.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Steelers game was way bigger than Cowboys. They wanted to win in Dallas on Thanksgiving, they NEEDED to win in Pitt.

Hmm, I disagree. I think the Cowboys game was the biggest game of this regime and probably the most meaningful game of the past decade for the Bills. Big stage, big underdog (for no reason), and the Cowboys have some serious firepower on offense. And we creamed them.

 

I don't agree that the Bills needed the Pittsburgh game. There were plenty of scenarios to get in to the playoffs without that win. The Steelers went 8-8 and the Bills went 10-6, but sat their starters week 17.

 

Plus, I think it's more meaningful to beat Dak, Elliot, and Cooper than it is to beat the crap the Steelers had to put out there on offense with Big Ben hurt and their stars gone (Brown and Bell).

[Motor26]

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

Hmm, I disagree. I think the Cowboys game was the biggest game of this regime and probably the most meaningful game of the past decade for the Bills. Big stage, big underdog (for no reason), and the Cowboys have some serious firepower on offense. And we creamed them.

 

I don't agree that the Bills needed the Pittsburgh game. There were plenty of scenarios to get in to the playoffs without that win. The Steelers went 8-8 and the Bills went 10-6, but sat their starters week 17.

 

Plus, I think it's more meaningful to beat Dak, Elliot, and Cooper than it is to beat the crap the Steelers had to put out there on offense with Big Ben hurt and their stars gone (Brown and Bell).

Cowboys game was them showing they can play on the big stage. In Jerry’s world, on thanksgiving. Pittsburgh clinched the playoffs. 

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

Cowboys game was them showing they can play on the big stage. In Jerry’s world, on thanksgiving. Pittsburgh clinched the playoffs. 

Yeah, they were both important games for sure.

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, MJS said:

Hmm, I disagree. I think the Cowboys game was the biggest game of this regime and probably the most meaningful game of the past decade for the Bills. Big stage, big underdog (for no reason), and the Cowboys have some serious firepower on offense. And we creamed them.

 

I don't agree that the Bills needed the Pittsburgh game. There were plenty of scenarios to get in to the playoffs without that win. The Steelers went 8-8 and the Bills went 10-6, but sat their starters week 17.

 

Plus, I think it's more meaningful to beat Dak, Elliot, and Cooper than it is to beat the crap the Steelers had to put out there on offense with Big Ben hurt and their stars gone (Brown and Bell).

I looked at the Cowboys game like the Vikings game tbh; we were big underdogs who dropped a flashy performance, got the recognition but it not significant...against the Steelers there was no sneaking up on anyone anymore. It was for the playoffs, two teams with phenomenal defenses, iirc the way the guys acted after beating Pitt you could tell that was the game that told them they'd arrived as legit.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I looked at the Cowboys game like the Vikings game tbh; we were big underdogs who dropped a flashy performance, got the recognition but it not significant...against the Steelers there was no sneaking up on anyone anymore. It was for the playoffs, two teams with phenomenal defenses, iirc the way the guys acted after beating Pitt you could tell that was the game that told them they'd arrived as legit.

 

I think the reaction was more that they knew it clinched the playoffs with a couple of weeks to spare. They were both big wins but I do kind of side with the Dallas win. Had we lost that game there was still a route through Pittsburgh and the Jets to 10 but we were walking a tight rope a little bit with Baltimore and New England still to play. Once they beat Dallas it opened so many more doors to me. They could have dropped 3, beat the Jets and still made it after that. I thought he we were making the playoffs all year. Ed's strip sack of Dak was pretty much the moment I knew we were making it. 

[billrooter]

On 4/16/2020 at 7:40 PM, Yav said:

I just don’t like him. He continues to under throw Hill and Hill adjusts and makes great catches. Sure he won the SB but wasn’t the MVP, sorry I’m just not that impressed. I would take Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers and Wilson over him. He’s not in the top 5. I also like Watson over him.

  I do agree with one thing in here Yav, he should have never been the MVP in the super bowl he played like crap, that should have been Damien Williams.

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, billrooter said:

  I do agree with one thing in here Yav, he should have never been the MVP in the super bowl he played like crap, that should have been Damien Williams.

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

Mahomes deserved the MVP for sure.  In addition to his 3 TDs, he threw what should have been another easy one, but Williams ran a bad route and couldn’t find the ball.  He also had 44 yards rushing on 6 carries for 330 yards of total offense.  If Mahomes didn’t get it, it should have gone to Chris Jones who got his hands on about 5 passes in the 4th quarter.

 

The guy is special.  Even his “bad” games are great.

[billrooter]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

 

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

The Williams MVP crowd is factual, not funny. It is called Super Bowl Game. Mahomes had three crappy quarters and a great 4th quarter. He had two passing tds, two ints. and a rushing touchdown. Williams had 104 yards rushing while averaging six a carry and a td, 29 yards receiving and a td. To me Williams should have been the MVP.. you can't change my mind but you have an opinion and thats great. The discussion on Allens great Steelers game, not sure why that is included as I didn't think he had a great game?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, Billl said:

If Joe Burrow starts 12 games next year and throws for 3300 yards, 21 TDs and 6 INTs, he will exceed expectations.  Of course Minshew is above Allen.  He’s way ahead of Allen.  

 

So if you are looking for a franchise guy and have the option of Minshew or Allen for the rest of their careers you are taking Minshew? 

 

Sure Minshew had a good season last year. But what is his ceiling? Remember, Mayfield was rookie of the year and the consensus #1 QB from that draft class. Now we are not even sure he is the 4th best QB from that class.  Things can change quickly in the NFL.

[C.Biscuit97]

54 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

So if you are looking for a franchise guy and have the option of Minshew or Allen for the rest of their careers you are taking Minshew? 

 

Sure Minshew had a good season last year. But what is his ceiling? Remember, Mayfield was rookie of the year and the consensus #1 QB from that draft class. Now we are not even sure he is the 4th best QB from that class.  Things can change quickly in the NFL.

But that’s why guys like Allen are both awesome and frustrating at the same time.  Potential.  Again, Allen has never been a really dominant player on any level of football.  He has moments and all the physical tools.  But this league is filled with guys with physical tools who never amount to anything. Take Fitz.  How many guys have better physical tools?  Like 99%?  Yet Fitz has had a better career than like 90% of them. 
 

I would take Allen over Minshew but would I be shocked if Minshew became the better overall qb? Not all.  I think it’s really extremely rare for a qb to just suddenly became a better player at the nfl than he has been at any level.  

1 hour ago, billrooter said:

 

The Williams MVP crowd is factual, not funny. It is called Super Bowl Game. Mahomes had three crappy quarters and a great 4th quarter. He had two passing tds, two ints. and a rushing touchdown. Williams had 104 yards rushing while averaging six a carry and a td, 29 yards receiving and a td. To me Williams should have been the MVP.. you can't change my mind but you have an opinion and thats great. The discussion on Allens great Steelers game, not sure why that is included as I didn't think he had a great game?

I completely disagree and I’m happy that Mahomes won it.  Mahomes is steroids to a rb.  Everything Williams achieved is because of Mahomes.  So I’m going with the guy who opened things up for his rb, had over 300 totals yards, and 3 tds.  But agree to disagree.