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There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work


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1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Does he have a condition that makes the mask difficult for him wear? Otherwise he should just wear the mask- him using this as his moment to shine makes him stupid.


Maybe he does, maybe he does not. In any event, it certainly is not a "law."

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2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

This is such an annoying comment, it pretends that DeSantis is pushing people to go to bars and other crowded places. I will make it simple for liberals: if you do not want to go out please stay home. The Governor has given people the ability to make there own choice which is not something the needing homes in NYC were given by Cuomo.

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31 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

This is such an annoying comment, it pretends that DeSantis is pushing people to go to bars and other crowded places. I will make it simple for liberals: if you do not want to go out please stay home. The Governor has given people the ability to make there own choice which is not something the needing homes in NYC were given by Cuomo.

 

...don't you find it interesting that after the MSM approved "protests and riots" getting an obvious Covid-19 exemption, that we're back to SOLELY the number of cases?.....but...no mention of increased testing, symptomatic vs asymptotic, age categories, nursing homes, et al?.....how come with the potential of Ebola or SARS did we not see this type of daily scrutiny?....cannot be politically reporting driven (COUGH).............

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7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Americans Should Never Again Comply With Pandemic Lockdown Orders. 

 

The obvious politicization and incompetence of our public health authorities means that people won’t listen next time the way they listened this time.


This is tough. Never say never, but the trust that was put in the "experts" this time... how can we trust those selfsame "experts" that were so terribly wrong this time,  next time?

 

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DID THE MASSIVE RALLIES OF THE PAST FEW WEEKS REALLY HAPPEN:

 

The Washington Post has this story, about foreign bigwigs being astounded by what the article describes as the Trump administration’s inept handling of the coronavirus, and what they see as the U.S. giving up on containing it.

 

I don’t think any of our elites come off especially well in how they have handled the virus, but I do seem to recall this series of events, which is entirely absent from the Post article:

 

(1) Hundreds of thousands of people coming out in the streets with little social distancing in defiance of all previous public health guidance;

 

(2) various mayors and governors who had been among the strictest in fining, denouncing, and generally bullying anyone who defied social distancing guidelines not only not trying to break up these gatherings, not only leaving them alone, but actually

 

(3) attending them, encouraging their attendees, and praising them;

 

(4) various respected public health experts, who had previously been adamant about banning large public gatherings, at best not saying anything (with very few exceptions) and in many cases actually praising the gatherings as a net benefit to public health;

 

(5) leading to even more people coming out on the streets in defiance of all prior public health guidance on social distancing, tens of thousands at a time all over the country;

 

(6) leading to the utter breakdown of obedience by the rest of the population to any distancing guidelines, as many people who had been banned from attending church, funerals, opening their businesses, and so on figured that the people who had been insisting on strict social distancing were frauds and liars.

 

 

But since the Washington Post couldn’t find a single foreign observer to comment on such a remarkable chain of events, and since in any event they can’t be blamed on Trump, they must never have happened, must be my imagination.

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
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HOW TO RECOVER FROM THE SHUTDOWNS

 

The shutdowns that almost every governor imposed in response to the COVID-19 epidemic devastated the nation’s economy, unemploying tens of millions and bringing many industries to a standstill. With the country now gradually beginning to re-open, the financial markets appear to be anticipating a rapid return to prosperity. But that will depend, in considerable part, on the wisdom of policies that are adopted at both the federal and state levels.

 

What, exactly, can our governments do to put the effects of the calamitous shutdowns behind us? That question will be addressed on Tuesday, June 23, in a webinar co-hosted by Chris Phelan, Chairman of the Department of Economics at the University of Minnesota, and John Phelan (no relation), an economist at Center of the American Experiment. The webinar will begin at noon, and you can register here. Phelan and Phelan will address such questions as, what is the current state of our economy? Did media sensationalism and shutdown policies do more damage than the disease itself? And what can be done to nurse the economy back to health?

 

MORE AT THE LINK:

 

 

 

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Malls, gyms, movie theaters won't open in New York's phase four
 

Malls, movie theaters and gyms are not cleared to reopen during phase four in New York, even as coronavirus cases have dwindled and the rate of infection in the state is among the lowest in the nation.
 

Robert F. Mujica Jr., the state's budget director, informed local leaders — meeting as a reopening "control room" — of the governor's decision on a conference call Tuesday afternoon.
 

</snip>

 

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On 6/18/2020 at 3:59 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

Does he have a condition that makes the mask difficult for him wear? Otherwise he should just wear the mask- him using this as his moment to shine makes him stupid.

Due to HIPPA laws, that's actually none of your business.

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52 minutes ago, Cinga said:

Due to HIPPA laws, that's actually none of your business.

My point is that wearing the mask is good even if it is not a law. Being smart and a good neighbor should not require a government to make us. 

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5 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

My point is that wearing the mask is good even if it is not a law. Being smart and a good neighbor should not require a government to make us. 

 

Buffalo Timmy, I agree the government shouldn't make a law abiding citizen do anything, and common sense should prevail. So allow me to put this in perspective for you:

 

Though I agree, that 'smart and good behavior' you note, and that the 'Karens' all over the USA try to call people out for, isn't backed by the FDA:

 

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/face-masks-and-surgical-masks-covid-19-manufacturing-purchasing-importing-and-donating-masks-during

Q: Is there a difference between a mask and a respirator?

A: Masks and respirators both cover a wearer’s nose and mouth, but they differ in several aspects.

Masks are loose fitting and may not provide full protection from breathing in airborne pathogens, such as viruses.

  • Face masks (non-surgical masks) may not provide protection from fluids or may not filter particles, needed to protect against pathogens, such as viruses. They are not for surgical use and are not considered personal protective equipment.
  • Surgical masks are fluid-resistant, disposable, and loose-fitting devices that create a physical barrier between the mouth and nose of the wearer and the immediate environment. They are for use in surgical settings and do not provide full protection from inhalation of airborne pathogens, such as viruses.

Respirators are personal protective equipment that tightly fit the face and filter airborne particles to protect health care workers. They provide a higher level of protection against viruses and bacteria when properly fit-tested. This document does not address respirators.

This CDC infographic explains the differences between surgical masks and N95 respirators.

 

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Buffalo Timmy, I also think laws and common sense should apply to everyone, despite their color or gender.

 

From Lincoln County, Oregon:

Face Covering Directive
Order 6/17/2020—Face Covering Directive (signed directive in Supporting Documents—below)

General directive: All individuals (I fixed their spelling) in Lincoln County are required to wear face coverings during any indoor public setting or outdoor public location where a person will be in within six feet of another individual, who does not share the same household.

Exceptions:

  • Persons with health/medical conditions that preclude or are exacerbated by wearing a face covering.
  • Children under the age of 12. Children over the age of 2 but under the age of 12 are encouraged to wear face coverings but not required to do so.
  • Persons with disabilities that prevents them from using the face covering as described in this Directive. These persons must be reasonably accommodated to allow them access to goods and services.
  • People of color who have heightened concerns about racial profiling and harassment due to wearing face coverings in public.

So the good people of Lincoln County Oregon, Democrat held btw, feel wearing a mask may be considered racist, so the laws apply to some people, but not others based on their color. I think there is a word or term for that. Help me out, what is the word when laws/directives apply to one race but not another?.....

******************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Lastly, who is this Brandon Straka guy you asked? Why would he be singled out?

 

On 6/18/2020 at 3:59 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

Does he have a condition that makes the mask difficult for him wear? Otherwise he should just wear the mask- him using this as his moment to shine makes him stupid.

 

Buffalo Timmy, Brandon Straka is a white gay man who spoke out against the Democrat party a few years ago. He led to a movement called 'Walk Away'. You may have heard of it. His video eloquently led to many people having the strength to speak up. He has over 700k views and have led to thousands of Walk Away videos. It is where former Democrats and leftists have 'walked away' from the Democrat Party in recent years given many, many reasons. Why would he be targeted? I'll let Brandon speak for himself:

 

 

Listening to it now is stronger than it even was back then.

 

Thanks for bringing it up.

 

Why would Brandon Straka be picked out?

 

Thank you Buffalo Timmy for helping expose the BS guidelines to wear masks in public, the racial differences brought up in a society uncertain as to how to deal with COVID, but puts minority Americans more a risk if masks actually do anything, and for helping me bring up 'Walk Away' again. Solid days work Buffalo TImmy.

 

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On 6/15/2020 at 6:39 PM, Koko78 said:

 

Payroll taxes are paid by the employer.

The employer is responsible for collecting the employee and employer portion, and paying it to the Fed government, and accounting for it on the 940/941

 

The current tax rate for social security is 6.2% for the employer and 6.2% for the employee, or 12.4% total

 

Only the social security tax has a wage base limit. The wage base limit is the maximum wage that's subject to the tax for that year. For earnings in 2020, this base is $137,700.

 

Medicare is 1.45% for the employer and 1.45% for the employee, or 2.9% total.

 

Employers are responsible for withholding the 0.9% Additional Medicare Tax on an individual's wages paid in excess of $200,000 in a calendar year, without regard to filing status. An employer is required to begin withholding Additional Medicare Tax in the pay period in which it pays wages in excess of $200,000 to an employee and continue to withhold it each pay period until the end of the calendar year. There's no employer match for Additional Medicare Tax.

 

 

 

 

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On 6/19/2020 at 12:40 PM, B-Man said:

 

Americans Should Never Again Comply With Pandemic Lockdown Orders. 

 

The obvious politicization and incompetence of our public health authorities means that people won’t listen next time the way they listened this time.

Americans should do what they believe is in their best interest. Ideally they would educate themselves on the matter enough to make a decision. 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Americans should do what they believe is in their best interest. Ideally they would educate themselves on the matter enough to make a decision. 

  I still think that Cuomo is planning for a late fall shutdown although there are now more obstacles in that road.  Does he make use of the state police to enforce it because he knows a shutdown will be met with great resistance?

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2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I still think that Cuomo is planning for a late fall shutdown although there are now more obstacles in that road.  Does he make use of the state police to enforce it because he knows a shutdown will be met with great resistance?

If the statistics point to that being necessary in a localized area it shouldn't be a problem, but don't force those requirements onto western New York if the city is the issue. And they never really wanted to shut down anyway. You want to shut down NYC? Shut off the subway (and sterilize it while you're at it).

 

If statistics do not warrant a shutdown his attempt will absolutely be met with resistance. 

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4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If the statistics point to that being necessary in a localized area it shouldn't be a problem, but don't force those requirements onto western New York if the city is the issue. And they never really wanted to shut down anyway. You want to shut down NYC? Shut off the subway (and sterilize it while you're at it).

 

If statistics do not warrant a shutdown his attempt will absolutely be met with resistance. 

  What if his "data" points to a shutdown of Buffalo and Rochester?  I still believe that it would not be necessary to shutdown the rest of the region but he may decide otherwise due to hospital bed issues or some other reason.  No reason to shutdown Jamestown, Olean, Hornell, Batavia, Geneva, etc. but he may do so and he might instruct the state police that they are not allowed to be passive in the matter.

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11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If the statistics point to that being necessary in a localized area it shouldn't be a problem, but don't force those requirements onto western New York if the city is the issue. And they never really wanted to shut down anyway. You want to shut down NYC? Shut off the subway (and sterilize it while you're at it).

 

If statistics do not warrant a shutdown his attempt will absolutely be met with resistance. 

manipulated numbers are not statistics to base policy on

where are the "statistics" for recoveries and treatment success?

you know the things that impact overwhelming the hopitals

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  What if his "data" points to a shutdown of Buffalo and Rochester?  I still believe that it would not be necessary to shutdown the rest of the region but he may decide otherwise due to hospital bed issues or some other reason.  No reason to shutdown Jamestown, Olean, Hornell, Batavia, Geneva, etc. but he may do so and he might instruct the state police that they are not allowed to be passive in the matter.

As long as he brings the receipts I believe the vast majority will be accepting. It's unfortunate that the well is already so poisoned with misinformation, but that just amplifies the need for him to point to verifiable data if he expects reasonable compliance imo

Just now, spartacus said:

manipulated numbers are not statistics to base policy on

where are the "statistics" for recoveries and treatment success?

you know the things that impact overwhelming the hopitals

As I just implied above, the well has been sufficiently poisoned and as such he should expect whatever receipts he produces to be heavily scrutinized. Not saying that's what will happen, but at this point if you want peaceful compliance you need a very solid case.

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2 minutes ago, spartacus said:

manipulated numbers are not statistics to base policy on

where are the "statistics" for recoveries and treatment success?

you know the things that impact overwhelming the hopitals

 

 

 

I was just going to say pretty much this same thing. All you have to do is look to the people who keep pointing to the uptick of infections while ignoring the declining death rate.

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13 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

As long as he brings the receipts I believe the vast majority will be accepting. It's unfortunate that the well is already so poisoned with misinformation, but that just amplifies the need for him to point to verifiable data if he expects reasonable compliance imo

I don't see that.  Despite what has been said by politicians among others the livelihood of many people are still hanging in the balance.  Many businesses that do not run on hefty margins have a few months of income to make up and no doubt have creditors waiting on them to make accounts current.  These business people are going to take every step possible to protect their means of living since the government will not do so.  Banks are in a tough position as loans are not allowed to float indefinitely.  At some point they will be forced to undertake unpleasant actions including foreclosure as banking laws require that loans have some degree of quality meaning they can be paid per a schedule.

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10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

I don't see that.  Despite what has been said by politicians among others the livelihood of many people are still hanging in the balance.  Many businesses that do not run on hefty margins have a few months of income to make up and no doubt have creditors waiting on them to make accounts current.  These business people are going to take every step possible to protect their means of living since the government will not do so.  Banks are in a tough position as loans are not allowed to float indefinitely.  At some point they will be forced to undertake unpleasant actions including foreclosure as banking laws require that loans have some degree of quality meaning they can be paid per a schedule.

To be clear, the circumstances necessary to bring another shutdown would need to be along the lines of multiple Buffalo hospitals at capacity, excessive patient transfers, and patients dying because of it. We're past the point of models or projections dictating actions and it would very much be reactive.

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2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

To be clear, the circumstances necessary to bring another shutdown would need to be along the lines of multiple Buffalo hospitals at capacity, excessive patient transfers, and patients dying because of it. We're past the point of models or projections dictating actions and it would very much be reactive.

  And if I am some coffee shop proprietor or other business person who has a stack of notices on his desk about unpaid bills including a notice that I am two weeks past due on my home mortgage I am going to run my business until the cops come along to padlock me closed.  

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35 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  And if I am some coffee shop proprietor or other business person who has a stack of notices on his desk about unpaid bills including a notice that I am two weeks past due on my home mortgage I am going to run my business until the cops come along to padlock me closed.  

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

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3 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  


Phase 4 is the final "phase." After that, it is an industry by industry decision by either Cuomo or the board of health.

I stopped in at my father's nursing home last week and asked if they knew anything. The nurse told me it was the board of health, not the governor, who would  be determining when nursing homes are open to visitors. If she is correct, who knows how long those poor people will remain in lock down.
 

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3 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

  The heat is on them plus a myriad of other small business operators with the need for the US government to step in and allow banks some flexibility on loans.  This will not solve everything if a business has credit extended to them by another business such as a restaurant having credit extended to them by a supplier.

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2 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

The gym owners are still patiently waiting.  But there may be a huge liquidation of gym assets in another month or so when they all go bankrupt.  NYS will not even discuss gyms, no guidance, no mention of what phase they are in.  

which is totally supported by the "statistics"

https://forward.ny.gov/early-warning-monitoring-dashboard

https://forward.ny.gov/daily-hospitalization-summary-region

 

The "statistics' clearly indicate that NY should be fully open

When will enough be enough?

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, spartacus said:

which is totally supported by the "statistics"

https://forward.ny.gov/early-warning-monitoring-dashboard

https://forward.ny.gov/daily-hospitalization-summary-region

 

The "statistics' clearly indicate that NY should be fully open

When will enough be enough?

 

 

 

 

 

…….sorry Big Fredo isn't done yet...……….

 

With Legislature idle, Cuomo changed 262 laws in 55 days

Cuomo invokes executive powers during pandemic to changes to hundreds of laws and regulations

 

May 2, 2020Updated: May 2, 2020 6 p.m.
 
 
 
 
ALBANY — In the two months since Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo declared a state of emergency on March 7, he has invoked the powers of his office to issue more than 25 executive orders in response to the coronavirus pandemic.
 
 

The expansive orders have made hundreds of temporary but sweeping changes to state laws, including shutting down schools and businesses, as well as altering state regulations that govern public health, hospitals, nursing homes, elections, open meetings, court proceedings, purchasing procedures and child care.

Some of the decisions have also raised constitutional questions, including Cuomo's March 20 order that directed New Yorkers to engage in mandatory "social distancing." It's unclear if that measure or others like it — which have been widely followed — could be legally enforced.             

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/With-Legislature-idle-Cuomo-changed-262-laws-in-15240581.php

 

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy
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Texas Travelers Headed to New York, Connecticut Or New Jersey to Quarantine for 14 Days

Visitors from states over a set infection rate will have to quarantine, according to NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo
 

New York, Connecticut and New Jersey will require visitors from states with high infection rates, including Texas, to quarantine for 14 days, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.
 

"We now have to make sure the rates continue to drop," Cuomo said. "We also have to make sure the virus doesn't come on a plane again."
 

</snip>
.

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2 hours ago, spartacus said:

which is totally supported by the "statistics"

https://forward.ny.gov/early-warning-monitoring-dashboard

https://forward.ny.gov/daily-hospitalization-summary-region

 

The "statistics' clearly indicate that NY should be fully open

When will enough be enough?

 

 

 

yeah, what happened to “flatten the curve”?  It looks like the goalposts - surprise, surprise - have moved to “eradicate the virus completely”.

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Wow, this will have a lot of consequences. People will need to quit jobs to stay home with their children, people will have to hire a nanny to continue to work, people will home school their children (and take part in the home school socialization + sports), people will move to an area that offers in-person schooling... I could go on. 
 

Fairfax families have a choice for next school year: Two days on campus or full-time remote learning


Fairfax County Public Schools, one of the country’s largest districts, is asking families to choose between 100 percent virtual learning or part-time in-person schooling next year, one of the first concrete plans for fall released by schools nationwide.
 

The superintendent of the Northern Virginia district, which serves 189,000 students, announced the setup to parents in an email Wednesday morning, writing that all families will be able to choose between two enrollment options for the 2020-2021 school year.
 

In the first, students will receive “virtual, interactive instruction” four days each week, and they will never set foot on campus. In the second, students will attend school for at least two “full days” of instruction inside school buildings and participate in independent study and work on the remaining days.
 

</snip>

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7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Wow, this will have a lot of consequences. People will need to quit jobs to stay home with their children, people will have to hire a nanny to continue to work, people will home school their children (and take part in the home school socialization + sports), people will move to an area that offers in-person schooling... I could go on. 
 

Fairfax families have a choice for next school year: Two days on campus or full-time remote learning


Fairfax County Public Schools, one of the country’s largest districts, is asking families to choose between 100 percent virtual learning or part-time in-person schooling next year, one of the first concrete plans for fall released by schools nationwide.
 

The superintendent of the Northern Virginia district, which serves 189,000 students, announced the setup to parents in an email Wednesday morning, writing that all families will be able to choose between two enrollment options for the 2020-2021 school year.
 

In the first, students will receive “virtual, interactive instruction” four days each week, and they will never set foot on campus. In the second, students will attend school for at least two “full days” of instruction inside school buildings and participate in independent study and work on the remaining days.
 

</snip>

  I suspect that this is the tip of the iceberg nationally.  A lot of two paycheck homes will need a daycare option.  Might be good for local employment as there should be a net increase in the need to monitor children versus a bus driver who hauls 60 kids around twice per day or a lunch room monitor who tracks a few hundred kids per period.  Of course credentials and temperament will be more critical in somebody's home versus on a bus.

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Just now, RochesterRob said:

  I suspect that this is the tip of the iceberg nationally.  A lot of two paycheck homes will need a daycare option.  Might be good for local employment as there should be a net increase in the need to monitor children versus a bus driver who hauls 60 kids around twice per day or a lunch room monitor who tracks a few hundred kids per period.  Of course credentials and temperament will be more critical in somebody's home versus on a bus.


The FIRST thing I saw was it was all Trump's fault for clamping down on au pair visas.

There were some day care numbers that came out today as part of the unemployment numbers, and that industry has been hit hard. They closed down many (most) of the day cares (one of my nephews never stopped going, but I know he's in the minority).

I wonder if taxes go down as the need for new buildings goes down, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, aides, gym teachers, coaches, books, in-school nurses, etc. goes away?
 

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1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:


The FIRST thing I saw was it was all Trump's fault for clamping down on au pair visas.

There were some day care numbers that came out today as part of the unemployment numbers, and that industry has been hit hard. They closed down many (most) of the day cares (one of my nephews never stopped going, but I know he's in the minority).

I wonder if taxes go down as the need for new buildings goes down, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, aides, gym teachers, coaches, books, in-school nurses, etc. goes away?
 

  Daycare was hit hard as parents were laid off so they had the time to watch the kids and lacked the money to pay for daycare if they did not want to watch the kids.  Your scenario presupposes normal employment for parents versus continued problems in the economy.

  As to what happens with the school districts a lot will depend on what NEA does.  I'm surprised at the statements Cuomo has made to online schooling given NEA's stature in the Democratic Party.  Maybe Cuomo has NEA pegged as the dinosaur who has just seen the asteroid out of the corner of its eyes.

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4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Daycare was hit hard as parents were laid off so they had the time to watch the kids and lacked the money to pay for daycare if they did not want to watch the kids.  Your scenario presupposes normal employment for parents versus continued problems in the economy.

  As to what happens with the school districts a lot will depend on what NEA does.  I'm surprised at the statements Cuomo has made to online schooling given NEA's stature in the Democratic Party.  Maybe Cuomo has NEA pegged as the dinosaur who has just seen the asteroid out of the corner of its eyes.


You think Cuomo is going to go against the teacher's union? That would shock me. Right now teachers are collecting from home. (Well, last check as the school year ends.) My niece (a teacher) took her daughter out of daycare and basically built a fort around their house. Funny part? Her SO works in the fire department and saw a ton of people on his days-on and yet no one was allowed near their house until two weeks ago. SMH

 

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