There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[B-Man]

Contra Andrew Cuomo, While A Grim Choice, We May Have To Restart The Economy

by Jazz Shaw

 

FTA:

 

The coronavirus may have resulted from bad decisions by people who didn’t understand the consequences of all of that food mixing in the wet markets, but once the genie was out of the bottle, the coronavirus became, for purposes of this discussion an accidental Act of God. We’re fighting it as hard as we can and I partially agree with Governor Cuomo that we have to do this intelligently. It’s not an all or nothing, binary decision. But half measures (or far less) in terms of avoiding another great depression aren’t going to do.

 

I’m not talking about economic Darwinism here or saying we should just start digging mass graves for all the senior citizens. (Including yours truly.) We can turn the economy on again and do it in a smart way that saves us from a decade of economic despair while minimizing the health risks, can’t we? I will again agree with Cuomo that it would be reckless and irresponsible to send everyone back to work at once. But his plan to send only those who have survived the disease and developed immunity back on the job is far too timid. It will take too long to get the test kits distributed and identify them all, and even then, we’re probably only talking about a few tens of thousands of people at most, at least for now.

 

Surely there is a way to keep the oldest and those with other, underlying health issues (making them more vulnerable to death) isolated at home and eligible for government support. At the same time, the young and the healthy could return to work, but with better practicing of social distancing and cleanliness at the workplace. As more people get the disease and survive it, the herd immunity grows and we slow the rate of additional infections until we have either a vaccine or a working antiviral medication. If we got a significant body of people back to being productive, the total burden would be decreased and shared.

 

And something has to give soon. Congress is on the verge of essentially taking two trillion dollars (roughly 10% of our GDP) and setting it on fire. How many times can we do that before we hit the point of no return?

 

If you wouldn’t shut down all of the highways to prevent a single person from dying in a car crash, if you wouldn’t ban the sale of cleaning products to prevent accidental poisonings, if you wouldn’t destroy all the bridges to prevent anyone from leaping off of them, why would you send the nation (and the world) into a great depression to prevent some possible deaths from a disease that was totally beyond our control to prevent and will take time to bring to heel?

 

I say this as a person in their sixties who has had respiratory issues. If I catch the coronavirus, there’s a more than fair probability I will die. Of course, I might get hit by a truck tomorrow. I’m going to die eventually. I’m not saying that the possibility I’m suggesting is pleasant.

 

I’m not saying we should be complacent about any preventable deaths. But the alternative is pretty grim also. Are you sure that driving the number of COVID-19 deaths down to the absolute, conceivable minimum is worth the price we’ll wind up paying?

 

 

 

 

 

.

[SoCal Deek]

I love the way has adopted the phrase "through no fault of their own" when referring to businesses closing and so many people out of work. No it wasn't their fault....however it was the fault of those in government that told everyone they had to close.

[B-Man]

 

 

DO:  

 

As Discussion On Reopening Economy Begins, Get Ready Regardless. 

 

 

 

.

[Magox]

13 hours ago, B-Man said:

Contra Andrew Cuomo, While A Grim Choice, We May Have To Restart The Economy

by Jazz Shaw

 

FTA:

 

The coronavirus may have resulted from bad decisions by people who didn’t understand the consequences of all of that food mixing in the wet markets, but once the genie was out of the bottle, the coronavirus became, for purposes of this discussion an accidental Act of God. We’re fighting it as hard as we can and I partially agree with Governor Cuomo that we have to do this intelligently. It’s not an all or nothing, binary decision. But half measures (or far less) in terms of avoiding another great depression aren’t going to do.

 

I’m not talking about economic Darwinism here or saying we should just start digging mass graves for all the senior citizens. (Including yours truly.) We can turn the economy on again and do it in a smart way that saves us from a decade of economic despair while minimizing the health risks, can’t we? I will again agree with Cuomo that it would be reckless and irresponsible to send everyone back to work at once. But his plan to send only those who have survived the disease and developed immunity back on the job is far too timid. It will take too long to get the test kits distributed and identify them all, and even then, we’re probably only talking about a few tens of thousands of people at most, at least for now.

 

Surely there is a way to keep the oldest and those with other, underlying health issues (making them more vulnerable to death) isolated at home and eligible for government support. At the same time, the young and the healthy could return to work, but with better practicing of social distancing and cleanliness at the workplace. As more people get the disease and survive it, the herd immunity grows and we slow the rate of additional infections until we have either a vaccine or a working antiviral medication. If we got a significant body of people back to being productive, the total burden would be decreased and shared.

 

And something has to give soon. Congress is on the verge of essentially taking two trillion dollars (roughly 10% of our GDP) and setting it on fire. How many times can we do that before we hit the point of no return?

 

If you wouldn’t shut down all of the highways to prevent a single person from dying in a car crash, if you wouldn’t ban the sale of cleaning products to prevent accidental poisonings, if you wouldn’t destroy all the bridges to prevent anyone from leaping off of them, why would you send the nation (and the world) into a great depression to prevent some possible deaths from a disease that was totally beyond our control to prevent and will take time to bring to heel?

 

I say this as a person in their sixties who has had respiratory issues. If I catch the coronavirus, there’s a more than fair probability I will die. Of course, I might get hit by a truck tomorrow. I’m going to die eventually. I’m not saying that the possibility I’m suggesting is pleasant.

 

I’m not saying we should be complacent about any preventable deaths. But the alternative is pretty grim also. Are you sure that driving the number of COVID-19 deaths down to the absolute, conceivable minimum is worth the price we’ll wind up paying?

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Substantively speaking, as I said earlier there is very little room between Trump's and Cuomo's outlook.  They both got serious about social distancing pretty much on identical timelines and they both began speaking about phasing in the workplace at the same timeline. 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

 

Substantively speaking, as I said earlier there is very little room between Trump's and Cuomo's outlook.  They both got serious about social distancing pretty much on identical timelines and they both began speaking about phasing in the workplace at the same timeline. 

Initially it appeared that Trump and Cuomo were on the same page but if you have listened to any of Cuomo's briefings in the last few days there is a very subtle effort to distance himself from Trump. Not really anything that would show a fracture today but Cuomo is leaving room to blame Trump for anything that goes wrong down the line. Cuomo has quit praising Trump but if he praises anything it's the federal government instead. Something to watch.

[Magox]

6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Initially it appeared that Trump and Cuomo were on the same page but if you have listened to any of Cuomo's briefings in the last few days there is a very subtle effort to distance himself from Trump. Not really anything that would show a fracture today but Cuomo is leaving room to blame Trump for anything that goes wrong down the line. Cuomo has quit praising Trump but if he praises anything it's the federal government instead. Something to watch.

Without doubt, Cuomo is already looking at his political national profile.  And I wouldn't be surprised that there are discussions with him and his closest of closest of advisers who wouldn't ever betray him of the possibilities of becoming the Democratic nominee.

 

He's not going to play Mr. Nice guy with Trump in the not so distant future.  He will ruthlessly savage him with sky high poll ratings and him and Trump will go after each other.  And with Biden becoming the melting ice cube that he is, with all these terrible performances, I am sure that there are discussions between Democratic activists how they can replace Biden with Cuomo.

 

What I was talking about was on the substance of their decisions.  Cuomo wants to get the NY economy going again as soon as he can realistically do so.

 

 

[3rdnlng]

33 minutes ago, Magox said:

Without doubt, Cuomo is already looking at his political national profile.  And I wouldn't be surprised that there are discussions with him and his closest of closest of advisers who wouldn't ever betray him of the possibilities of becoming the Democratic nominee.

 

He's not going to play Mr. Nice guy with Trump in the not so distant future.  He will ruthlessly savage him with sky high poll ratings and him and Trump will go after each other.  And with Biden becoming the melting ice cube that he is, with all these terrible performances, I am sure that there are discussions between Democratic activists how they can replace Biden with Cuomo.

 

What I was talking about was on the substance of their decisions.  Cuomo wants to get the NY economy going again as soon as he can realistically do so.

 

 

Yes, he does but he wants that decision recommendation to come from the White House so that he has cover. He wants the upside of the economy getting back going again without the downside of things going wrong. 

[mannc]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:18 PM, SoCal Deek said:

I love the way has adopted the phrase "through no fault of their own" when referring to businesses closing and so many people out of work. No it wasn't their fault....however it was the fault of those in government that told everyone they had to close.

As I write this, the entire state of Oregon has been shut down with the governor's "shelter in place" order, issued on Monday.  Among other things, doctors and dentists statewide have been ordered to perform no non-emergency procedures. 

 

The public health emergency that made all this necessary:  Through today, a grand total of 90 people in the state have been hospitalized for the coronavirus--it's not even clear how many of them were already in hospital when they were infected--and 11 deaths, all of people over 63-years old, with pre-existing medical conditions.  

[3rdnlng]

10 minutes ago, mannc said:

As I write this, the entire state of Oregon has been shut down with the governor's "shelter in place" order, issued on Monday.  Among other things, doctors and dentists statewide have been ordered to perform no non-emergency procedures. 

 

The public health emergency that made all this necessary:  Through today, a grand total of 90 people in the state have been hospitalized for the coronavirus--it's not even clear how many of them were already in hospital when they were infected--and 11 deaths, all of people over 63-years old, with pre-existing medical conditions.  

I'm in a WNY county known for its recreation with many people from downstate (who have summer homes here) and easy drive distance from Cleveland, Pittsburgh and of course Buffalo. Our lake is well known and houses the famed Chautauqua Institution where people come to "Summer".  As of 2 days ago we had no confirmed cases in the county but there has been a large amount of people who have suddenly decided to start their "Summering" 3 months earlier than normal. My hopes for a quick release of the stay at home rules here are now dashed. 

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I'm in a WNY county known for its recreation with many people from downstate (who have summer homes here) and easy drive distance from Cleveland, Pittsburgh and of course Buffalo. Our lake is well known and houses the famed Chautauqua Institution where people come to "Summer".  As of 2 days ago we had no confirmed cases in the county but there has been a large amount of people who have suddenly decided to start their "Summering" 3 months earlier than normal. My hopes for a quick release of the stay at home rules here are now dashed. 

This thing is going to behave differently in different parts of the country, which is why criticism of Trump for not enacting a one-size fits all, federally mandated national shutdown is so off base. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by mannc

[Doc Brown]

19 hours ago, Magox said:

Substantively speaking, as I said earlier there is very little room between Trump's and Cuomo's outlook.  They both got serious about social distancing pretty much on identical timelines and they both began speaking about phasing in the workplace at the same timeline. 

Trump has a muddled way of talking though and the media takes advantage of that.  To me they're both realistic people who understand that we may have to make tough choices in balancing possible loss of life with the state of the economy.  That's why we need more data on this thing as quickly as possible.

[ALF]

The  main focus should be to not overwhelm the healthcare system. Running out of PPE in NYC puts their lives in grave danger. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Trump has a muddled way of talking though and the media takes advantage of that.  To me they're both realistic people who understand that we may have to make tough choices in balancing possible loss of life with the state of the economy.  That's why we need more data on this thing as quickly as possible.

Doc, we make those choices every day we get in our cars, or on an airplane, or turn on the heater in our homes...or shake hands. Over the years we’ve  made all sorts of adjustments to make life safer amidst the risks that come with a modern society. You don’t even think about the vast majority of those risks when you walk out the door each morning. This pandemic will likely require some risk taking and some societal changes.

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, ALF said:

The  main focus should be to not overwhelm the healthcare system. Running out of PPE in NYC puts their lives in grave danger. 

Who takes on the main responsibility for having an adequate supply of such items?

[ALF]

10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Who takes on the main responsibility for having an adequate supply of such items?

 

Each State  ,  but FEMA  needs to be the biggest supply.  Like Bill Gates said this country spends trillions to prepare for war but a pandemic can cost even more lives and damage to the economy.

[3rdnlng]

2 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Each State  ,  but FEMA  needs to be the biggest supply.  Like Bill Gates said this country spends trillions to prepare for war but a pandemic can cost even more lives and damage to the economy.

Each state, yes. FEMA should have backup capabilities but NYC for example is already supposedly running out. Barely over a week ago Mayor Bill was encouraging NYC residents to get out and do the things they always have done. That's some recipe: Don't stock essential life saving supplies and encourage people to spread the virus. 

[Tiberius]

 

Quote

 

Traditionally conservative sites like The Federalist have started running articles suggesting the economic downfall of social distancing could ruin people’s lives to the point that “[p]robably almost everyone would be willing to live a somewhat shorter normal life rather than a somewhat longer life under current conditions.” The site even advocated solutions such as hosting “chickenpox parties” to expose children to the novel coronavirus to build herd immunity — an article Twitter swiftly suspended for promoting scientific misinformation.

It’s not an argument being made solely by stringent nationalist conservatives.

R.R. Robin, editor at the religious journal First Things, suggested that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s declaration that he would do anything to save lives was “demonic” in nature.

“Satan prefers sentimental humanists,” he wrote, and called the mass shutdown of New York City a sign that political and religious leaders had “signal[ed] by their actions that they, too, accept death’s dominion.”

Variations of that sentiment have found adherents in more popular conservative pundits and even a few prominent politicians. Radio host Glenn Beck, the onetime Fox News star, declared this week that he “would rather die” than kill the economy.

“I would rather have my children stay home and all of us who are over 50 go in and keep this economy going and working, even if we all get sick,” he said during his Tuesday radio panel. “I would rather die than kill the country, because it's not the economy that's dying, it's the country.”

And Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, himself a former radio talk show host, went on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show to argue that older Americans would willingly sacrifice themselves to keep the economy afloat and prevent the country from sliding into a depression.

“Let’s get back to living, let's be smart about it, and those of us who are 70-plus, we'll take care of ourselves,” Patrick said.

Fox News anchor Brit Hume later called the theory “an entirely reasonable viewpoint.”

Matt Lewis, a conservative opinion columnist at the Daily Beast, was unsurprised that his peers had made this suggestion, though he cautioned the view was not shared by the vast majority of right-leaning Americans, commentators and politicians.

 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/older-americans-work-coronavirus-151240

[mannc]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

This pandemic will likely require some risk taking and some societal changes.

More than many recognize.  There isn’t going to be a neat end to this, when everyone can just resume normal life, risk-free.

 

It is possible that, even after this pandemic ends—and we will eventually have a vaccine for it—coronavirus may now be a permanent part of the human health landscape, waxing and waning on a seasonal basis around the world.  Like the flu vaccine, the CV vaccine will help but probably not eliminate sickness from the virus.  Hundreds of thousands still die every year from the flu, despite our vaccines against it.  The extent to which we might just have to grin and bear it with regard to CV19 remains to be seen.  

Edited March 27, 2020 by mannc

[B-Man]

 

 

Narrative shifting: Gov. Andrew Cuomo is starting to sound a lot like Donald Trump on opening up the economy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[3rdnlng]

13 minutes ago, mannc said:

More than many recognize.  There isn’t going to be a neat end to this, when everyone can just resume normal life, risk-free.

 

It is possible that, even after this pandemic ends—and we will eventually have a vaccine for it—coronavirus may now be a permanent part of the human health landscape, waxing and waning on a seasonal basis around the world.  Like the flu vaccine, the CV vaccine will help but probably not eliminate sickness from the virus.  Hundreds of thousands still die every year from the flu, despite our vaccines against it.  The extent to which we might just have to grin and bear it with regard to CV19 remains to be seen.  

What percentage of the population of the U.S. get a flu vaccine? What percentage of the world's population get one? 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

BECAUSE ECONOMICS ARE LIFE AND DEATH:  

 

“How Can you Talk Economics When People are Dying”.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

What percentage of the population of the U.S. get a flu vaccine? What percentage of the world's population get one? 

No idea.  But my understanding is that even if everyone got vaccinated every year, the flu would still be around because the virus mutates and the vaccine is not perfect.

[3rdnlng]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

No idea.  But my understanding is that even if everyone got vaccinated every year, the flu would still be around because the virus mutates and the vaccine is not perfect.

Yes, the vaccines that are created are done on a "best guess" basis. Sometimes they are very effective while other times not so much. Vaccines seem to be the equivalent of crowd control vs. a riot without them. 

[Magox]

I find it fascinating as I have been saying for days now that Cuomo and Trump truly are not that far apart.

 

Cuomo admits his decision to quarantine everyone at once was 'not the best strategy' and that he is 'working on' release of coronavirus antibody test that will allow people to go back to work

 

Quote

"Cuomo admits his decision to quarantine everyone at once was 'not the best strategy' and that he is 'working on' release of coronavirus antibody test that will allow people to go back to work"

 

 

Keep in mind, Cuomo didn't shut down the schools until just 11 days ago and the Statue of Liberty, Empire state building and other famous places were open early mid week last week.  They didn't even shut down the restaurants until Thursday or Friday of last week.  

 

He definitely along with Deblasio resisted in shutting down things.  I'm not saying that to blame him, I'm making that point because Trump also resisted at least in rhetoric and downplaying the virus.  

 

The other point is how they view the economy.

 

There really isn't much daylight between them.

 

Quote

 

The governor has repeatedly suggested that younger people and those who have recovered from the virus, potentially developing immunity, could start returning to work sooner than the broader population.

“The smartest way forward is a modified public health strategy that dovetails and complements a get-back-to-work strategy,” Cuomo said on Thursday. “Younger people can go back to work, people who’ve resolved can go back to work, people who can get this antibody tests — show they have had the virus and resolved — can go back to work. … It’s not we’re either going to do public health or we’re going to do economic development. We’re going to do both. We have to do both.”

There’s no timeline on the plan, which Cuomo has dubbed “NY Forward.” The governor has picked two of his former secretaries: Bill Mulrow, a Blackstone executive, and Steve Cohen, an executive at billionaire Ronald Perelman’s holding company, to craft the plan. The two did not return multiple request for comment.

 

 

 

 

Trump will listen to his health advisers, I have no doubt about that.  He will ask them to formulate a way to get people back at work with as minimal of a risk that you can REASONABLY apply.   There is always a risk analysis to these sort of decisions, you can't wait until you are 100% without risk because if that was the case there would be no economy.  You'd ban everyone from driving because that is a risk.  You'd ban people from eating red meats.  You'd ban travel.  What I'm saying is that there has to be a risk analysis of an acceptable enough risk that takes into account the negative affects of the economic downturn which has all sorts of negative residual effects including health and somehow try to keep people as safe as possible.

 

I believe we will begin seeing some parts of the country which will implement social distancing guidelines phasing in parts of the workforce within a month.

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, Magox said:

I find it fascinating as I have been saying for days now that Cuomo and Trump truly are not that far apart.

 

Cuomo admits his decision to quarantine everyone at once was 'not the best strategy' and that he is 'working on' release of coronavirus antibody test that will allow people to go back to work

 

 

 

Keep in mind, Cuomo didn't shut down the schools until just 11 days ago and the Statue of Liberty, Empire state building and other famous places were open early mid week last week.  They didn't even shut down the restaurants until Thursday or Friday of last week.  

 

He definitely along with Deblasio resisted in shutting down things.  I'm not saying that to blame him, I'm making that point because Trump also resisted at least in rhetoric and downplaying the virus.  

 

The other point is how they view the economy.

 

There really isn't much daylight between them.

 

 

 

 

Trump will listen to his health advisers, I have no doubt about that.  He will ask them to formulate a way to get people back at work with as minimal of a risk that you can REASONABLY apply.   There is always a risk analysis to these sort of decisions, you can't wait until you are 100% without risk because if that was the case there would be no economy.  You'd ban everyone from driving because that is a risk.  You'd ban people from eating red meats.  You'd ban travel.  What I'm saying is that there has to be a risk analysis of an acceptable enough risk that takes into account the negative affects of the economic downturn which has all sorts of negative residual effects including health and somehow try to keep people as safe as possible.

 

I believe we will begin seeing some parts of the country which will implement social distancing guidelines phasing in parts of the workforce within a month.

No, I still disagree. Trump is more like his friend DeSantis in Florida who isn’t doing enough. Cuomo is more focused on fighting the epidemic and then restarting the economy, where Trump is much more concerned about quickly restarting the economy. I mean Trump was talking about opening the churches on Easter, that’s reckless 

[B-Man]

 

 

Not unlike Cuomo, but just watch the reaction to this: 

 

Trump Administration to Issue Guidelines for Classifying U.S. Counties by Coronavirus Risk: Criteria designed to help local officials decide whether to increase or relax social-distancing rules.

 

 

The term "sacrificing" will be used.

 

 

.

 

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

He isn’t listening to the doctors 

 

 

[Numark3]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He isn’t listening to the doctors 

 

 

he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Doc, we make those choices every day we get in our cars, or on an airplane, or turn on the heater in our homes...or shake hands. Over the years we’ve  made all sorts of adjustments to make life safer amidst the risks that come with a modern society. You don’t even think about the vast majority of those risks when you walk out the door each morning. This pandemic will likely require some risk taking and some societal changes.

We do but the major difference is we're taking those chances.  I'd feel horrible if I carried the virus without any symptoms and then spread it to my father in law who died because he's above 80 with heart problems.  We can't just rush back from this until the curve is flattened enough where the benefits of going back to life as usual outweighs the potential loss of life from this virus.  We just need more data, research, and patience at this point.  It's also important we do everything we can do help small business owners as they're the one's feeling the financial impact of this the most.  Ordering take out from local traditional dine in restaurants is something I think we can all do.  Stuff like that.

[Magox]

32 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal

 

He's either willfully being a partisan and being dishonest about it, or he's an idiot.  One or the other.

 

Which is why I don't respond when he replies with idiocy.  When he actually responds with some sort of semblance of a rational and honest thought, I reply back.

[IDBillzFan]

34 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal

 

I'll post this again: if you are watching what is going on in this world, and the only thing you can contribute to the conversation is to blame people for something over which you have no control, then STFU and let the adults get back to work.

 

People like @Tiberius can only complain. They can only second-guess. They can only flail around mindlessly screaming gibberish and wasting time. They will forever be part of the problem, and never be part of the solution.

 

 

[Magox]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

We do but the major difference is we're taking those chances.  I'd feel horrible if I carried the virus without any symptoms and then spread it to my father in law who died because he's above 80 with heart problems.  We can't just rush back from this until the curve is flattened enough where the benefits of going back to life as usual outweighs the potential loss of life from this virus.  We just need more data, research, and patience at this point.  It's also important we do everything we can do help small business owners as they're the one's feeling the financial impact of this the most.  Ordering take out from local traditional dine in restaurants is something I think we can all do.  Stuff like that.

 

The problem Doc, is that once the "curve is flattened" the risks that you just cited about being asymptomatic and not wanting to infect other people, they don't go away.  That will still remain.  Flattening the curve is only about one thing and one thing only.   Not inundating the hospitals so that it affects capacity.  The risk of that will always exist until the Virus is either dead or people are able to be vaccinated.

 

With that said, I do agree, there needs to be more data.  The Health experts Fauci and Birx are both saying over and over that they are learning a lot about it and are gathering that data.  I believe that whatever Trump decides will have the approval of Birx and Fauci.  And again, as I have said over and over, ultimately it will be up to the governors.  The governors have access to Dr. Fauci and Dr Birx.   And then EVEN after that, it then is up to each company after the governors.  So there are two more checks in place.

 

All the Federal government can do is provide federal guidance.   

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

We do but the major difference is we're taking those chances.  I'd feel horrible if I carried the virus without any symptoms and then spread it to my father in law who died because he's above 80 with heart problems. 

The guy you crash into could be 80 years old. The choices we make every single day have become so common place we don’t even know we’re making them. Every time you eat in a restaurant, or even in your kitchen, you’re trusting that someone up the line didn’t do something they weren’t supposed to do. (Maybe a bit too philosophical but at some point in this ‘crisis’ you’re going to have to take the risk and cross the river! Just like the antelope do even knowing there’s alligators in the water)

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

The problem Doc, is that once the "curve is flattened" the risks that you just cited about being asymptomatic and not wanting to infect other people, they don't go away.  That will still remain.  Flattening the curve is only about one thing and one thing only.   Not inundating the hospitals so that it affects capacity.  The risk of that will always exist until the Virus is either dead or people are able to be vaccinated.

 

With that said, I do agree, there needs to be more data.  The Health experts Fauci and Birx are both saying over and over that they are learning a lot about it and are gathering that data.  I believe that whatever Trump decides will have the approval of Birx and Fauci.  And again, as I have said over and over, ultimately it will be up to the governors.  The governors have access to Dr. Fauci and Dr Birx.   And then EVEN after that, it then is up to each company after the governors.  So there are two more checks in place.

 

All the Federal government can do is provide federal guidance.   

I pry wasn't clear in that I don't want to jump the gun and go about as life as usual when there's still an uptick in cases in order to overwhelm the hospitals leading to loss of lives that could've been saved.  After the curve is flattened significantly only then should we talk about the pros and cons of getting back to work and a normal life.  I'm hoping researchers can develop a blood test looking at antibodies to determine whether you've already had the virus and are more likely to be immune from it.  That may be an eventual criteria by some companies to allow you to come back to work.  Of course more studies have to be done about how strong these antibodies are in preventing reinfection.

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The guy you crash into could be 80 years old. The choices we make every single day have become so common place we don’t even know we’re making them. Every time you eat in a restaurant, or even in your kitchen, you’re trusting that someone up the line didn’t do something they weren’t supposed to do. (Maybe a bit too philosophical but at some point in this ‘crisis’ you’re going to have to take the risk and cross the river! Just like the antelope do even knowing there’s alligators in the water)

Just because my avatar is Doc Brown doesn't mean I'm a reckless driver who likes to go 88 mph.  I agree with you but you made it sound from your post that we should just open everything up immediately.  

[Magox]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

I pry wasn't clear in that I don't want to jump the gun and go about as life as usual when there's still an uptick in cases in order to overwhelm the hospitals leading to loss of lives that could've been saved.  After the curve is flattened significantly only then should we talk about the pros and cons of getting back to work and a normal life.  I'm hoping researchers can develop a blood test looking at antibodies to determine whether you've already had the virus and are more likely to be immune from it.  That may be an eventual criteria by some companies to allow you to come back to work.  Of course more studies have to be done about how strong these antibodies are in preventing reinfection.

 

 

 

That's the thing....Flattening the curve where?  Each Urban area is essentially it's own affected location.   By the time this is over with there will be some sort of outbreak in probably 20-40 different urban areas throughout the country.  Truth be told, I think it's going to be the weather more than anything that will lower infection rates throughout the country.   I think the South is going to be in better shape than the north.  But I also believe population density will also play a role.  Less urban areas will most likely experience less outbreaks than urban areas.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised that you see predominately southern and less urban populated areas beginning the ramp up of the work force.  I think about a month from now you will see the first signs of it and from there pick up at a pretty decent pace.   I could be wrong.  

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

He isn’t listening to the doctors 

 

 

He said will will open by Easter??  You making ***** up again??

3 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal

He said “hope”. We always say hope isn’t a strategy.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Just because my avatar is Doc Brown doesn't mean I'm a reckless driver who likes to go 88 mph.  I agree with you but you made it sound from your post that we should just open everything up immediately.  

I apologize if I wasn't clear.  The point is that there are risks around you every minute of every day. The current risk will not go away until there's a CURE/VACCINE (not a TEST) for this disease. There's zero chance we're keeping the country on lock down until then. All sorts of people working even now. The streets are not void of cars! It's all a matter of measuring the level of risk. What I'd really like is for the Media to stop rooting for a bigger crisis all in the name of ratings and viewership.  It's not helping in any way.  God forbid we ever have to fight a war on our home shores!  People will be cowering in their homes, much like panic induced by the original radio broadcast of the War of the Worlds...so I've read.

[B-Man]

NY Gov. Cuomo: Not Sure Keeping Everyone Home Is the ‘Best Public Health Strategy’

 

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[Q-baby!]

On 3/27/2020 at 6:14 PM, Chef Jim said:

He said will will open by Easter??  You making ***** up again??

He said “hope”. We always say hope isn’t a strategy.  

Trump is a ***** moron for even mentioning that. Just like when he said 15 cases and will be down to zero in a few days. 
 

Almost like a “chef” giving financial advice! 

[Chef Jim]

18 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

Trump is a ***** moron for even mentioning that. Just like when he said 15 cases and will be down to zero in a few days. 
 

Almost like a “chef” giving financial advice! 

How about a financial advisor giving cooking advice?  ?