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dave mcbride

Trent Murphy upped his game late last season and is better than many think

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1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Murphy is very good when healthy as Dave said. It took him a long time to return to health. Not his fault but a fact. Remains to be seen if he can keep his health and thus his production. History is not good but he's 100% now. I wouldn't get rid of him except for Clowney, who would transform the defense from very good to great. He may even take a one year prove it deal. 18m. Lose 8 from releasing Murphy. Take the hit. Then Star comes off books next year with Butler still around to take up space in middle. 

Has he ever had an injury issue unrelated to the ACL? 

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Well, if they were interested it would absolutely be at Murphy’s expense. It’s a situation where they may say “Murphy at $10M or Clowney at $18M?” That’s the kind of decision that they would make. The $8M savings from Murphy would immediately be applied to Clowney. 

If they're going to spend more money, I'd spend it on an RB or RT. Those spots are the real question marks right now. Maybe you pick up the RB in the draft, of course. 

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5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

Huh??? The mods have pushed for everyone here to provide headlines that are as descriptive as possible regarding the content.

 

I should have realized people are cruelly sarcastic on here but that was to make people laugh. Sorry it could be construed as cruel.

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He's the most likely cut candidate because there are a lot of mouths to feed on that DL.   Bills lost 3 starting/rotation DLs from last year's season end lineup (Shaq, Phillips & Liuget), and are adding at least 4 starting/rotation DLs in '20 (Addison, Jefferson, Butler & Harry's return).  Plus, Bills have to address a developmental DE in the draft.    

 

The math doesn't bode well for Murphy

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18 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

You do realize that we added Murphy as an UFA and wasn't working off his rookie contract like Shaq was? Toss in before coming here his 2006 season (his last season played before coming here) was better than anything Shaq had done to that time or since actually. That's why he got the money he did. 

 

Good point about the 2016 season, explains a lot.  I believe he did have an injury history which is probably why the Redskins didn't make a real attempt to keep him.  McD and Beane overpaid him and now should either a) cut him, or b) reduce his pay.  True, we have plenty of cap space (not a reason to overpay meh production), so use it to bring in additional offensive linemen, another 1-tech, RB, etc.  I'm sure Shaq Lawson saw what Murphy was making, and wanted more since his production was more than Murphy's.  You would feel the same way if you were Shaq...I know I would.

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8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Has he ever had an injury issue unrelated to the ACL? 

If they're going to spend more money, I'd spend it on an RB or RT. Those spots are the real question marks right now. Maybe you pick up the RB in the draft, of course. 

I think RT is the biggest need on the roster at the moment. I just don’t see the guy that moves the needle. The only needle mover on the market for the Bills still is Clowney IMO. 

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13 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

He had 3 sacks up until last game against Jets,  how can you justify 10 million for that kind of production and he is very weak against the run. People taking about his great playoff game should review the TD run where he could not bring down Watson.  You take the 8 million savings and add 5-6 and you could sign an upgrade

 

I'm glad someone sees the big picture.

28 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Murphy has had plenty of good games.  The production you are looking for cost 15-20 mil per yr, not 8 mil.

 

Murphy is worth $15-20M/year?  Now I know you've jumped the shark.

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2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He definitely played better late last year. I thought there was no chance that he was coming back this year. At this point I believe that he will be back. With that being said if the Bills were to chase Clowney or Ngakoue Murphy’s release will definitely be a part of that. The $8M of space from him would be needed.

 

I'd be find cutting him, but only for an upgrade to Clowney or Ngakoue, or a LB upgrade, but the LB I wanted (Littleton) is gone.  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I'm glad someone sees the big picture.

 

Murphy is worth $15-20M/year?  Now I know you've jumped the shark.

Where on earth did you get that from?

 

At least Murphy knows how to read.  Apparently you do not my friend.

 

I said "the kind of production you are looking for cost 15-20"  I never said anything about Murphy making that.🤨

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28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I never understood the bolded. What does that mean? Athletes want to go to the best situation. There are a lot of factors with money being at or near the top. I never got the “he won’t want to be in Buffalo” sentiment. In general, the Bills have always recruited well in FA. 
 

With his market dropping I think it becomes more likely. Maybe that wasn’t their plan but at some point the value meets the opportunity. I’m not saying it’s likely but the odds increase every hour that passes. 

Buffalo making the playoffs again has upped their status tremendously. Look at Digg’s reaction to Shady’s for example upon being traded.

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think RT is the biggest need on the roster at the moment. I just don’t see the guy that moves the needle. The only needle mover on the market for the Bills still is Clowney IMO. 

Adding a Clowney, approaching Jerry about a little team friendly restructure, and we honestly are a Super Bowl contender. I believe that.

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Posted (edited)

Dude is Chris Kelsey.  Not the worst but so easily replaceable for so much cheaper.  He had 3 sacks until that 💩 fest last game.  He has 24 sacks in 5 years, 10 FF, and 1 int.   He is a JAG and his best feature is setting the edge, which is something you don’t need to spend big money on.

 

this regime has done some really good things.  But they have some outdated views on football with the Star, Murphy, and need for a veteran rb. 

Edited by C.Biscuit97
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1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't think McD is anywhere near as good evaluating the d-line, or really any other position, aside from the defensive backfield.  He made remarks that he wanted to see more QB pressures and sacks from the defensive line; they finished 12th in that category, though largely from Jordan Phillips' and Shaq Lawson's efforts.  Murphy was well below those two in defensive statistics, yet he was paid many times more than them.

Murphy may have a high motor, but has a hard time getting away from the RT, who usually pushes Murphy 10+ yards out of the play. 

Chris Kelsay played with intensity, too.  Dick Jauron loved that high motor.  McD likes Murphy (and Star) because they are 'his' guys; I don't see them playing on better defenses such as SF or Baltimore, for example.  

 

Which had little to nothing to do with Murphy.  If you look at defensive lineman stats on NFL.com, Murphy is well below Lawson and J. Phillips, yet was paid many times more than both.


The guy that saw the field the most among DLmen, who was also 2nd among DEs in sacks, and was 2nd on the team in QB hurries, had “little to nothing” to do with the defensive performance?

 

Forgive me, but that’s an overstatement at best.

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56 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't think McD is anywhere near as good evaluating the d-line, or really any other position, aside from the defensive backfield.  He made remarks that he wanted to see more QB pressures and sacks from the defensive line; they finished 12th in that category, though largely from Jordan Phillips' and Shaq Lawson's efforts.  Murphy was well below those two in defensive statistics, yet he was paid many times more than them.

Murphy may have a high motor, but has a hard time getting away from the RT, who usually pushes Murphy 10+ yards out of the play. 

Chris Kelsay played with intensity, too.  Dick Jauron loved that high motor.  McD likes Murphy (and Star) because they are 'his' guys; I don't see them playing on better defenses such as SF or Baltimore, for example.  

 

 

I think you just believe what you choose to believe, instead of actually evaluating what happened.   

 

In his final 8 games (he missed one, so it was the Bills' last 9 games),  Murphy had 5 sacks, 26 total tackles, 6 tackles for loss.   In his last 8 games, Shaq had 4.5 sacks, 21 total tackles and 9 tackles for loss.   In his last 8 games, Phillips had 4.5 sacks, 18 tackles and 6 tackles for loss.  Murphy clearly was not "well below" those two, and keeping Murphy on the team for 2020 costs LESS than it would have cost to keep either Shaq or Phillips. 

 

But please don't let the facts get in the way of your conclusions.   It's obvious that Murphy sucks and only is on the team because McD likes him.    

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Trent Murphy upped his game a little bit last year, but he's still pretty average. He'll do in a pinch, but he's not much help to the pass rush and Hughes isn't getting any younger. Clowney is very disruptive when healthy. Maybe offer Clowney a 2 year deal to lure him away? None of the players we've signed in FA are anything more than backups. Only Diggs will have an impact from these new arrivals.

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47 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Has he ever had an injury issue unrelated to the ACL? 

 

He broke his hand and missed a couple games as rookie. But I was referring mostly to it took well over two years to get 100% and playing well from the knee injury. From early August ‘17 to maybe mid November ‘19. He was playing but not great and not full speed. I like him. I want him to stay. I cannot say I’m confident he won’t get hurt this year the way I’m confident Hughes or Oliver or Addison or Jefferson et al won’t be hurt. Clowney would make everyone on that line better. We would be a Super Bowl contender IMO. Why not take that chance. 

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10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you just believe what you choose to believe, instead of actually evaluating what happened.   

 

In his final 8 games (he missed one, so it was the Bills' last 9 games),  Murphy had 5 sacks, 26 total tackles, 6 tackles for loss.   In his last 8 games, Shaq had 4.5 sacks, 21 total tackles and 9 tackles for loss.   In his last 8 games, Phillips had 4.5 sacks, 18 tackles and 6 tackles for loss.  Murphy clearly was not "well below" those two, and keeping Murphy on the team for 2020 costs LESS than it would have cost to keep either Shaq or Phillips. 

 

But please don't let the facts get in the way of your conclusions.   It's obvious that Murphy sucks and only is on the team because McD likes him.    

He completely padded his stats with one game.  He was invisible for most of the season.  And Shaq is a younger, ascending player who has rarely been hurt.  I didn’t want to pay him that much but I do wonder if we didn’t have Trent, would we have?  Because I would rather have Shaq than Kelsey 2.0. 

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35 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I said "the kind of production you are looking for cost 15-20"  I never said anything about Murphy making that

 

My bad.  I see what you meant.  I was going through a number of posts fairly quick.  I wouldn't have any problem paying $15M/yr for the type of production I wish Buffalo would get from an edge player.  Unfortunately, that appears to be down the list on McD's priorities; he favors the defensive backfield.

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15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you just believe what you choose to believe, instead of actually evaluating what happened.   

 

In his final 8 games (he missed one, so it was the Bills' last 9 games),  Murphy had 5 sacks, 26 total tackles, 6 tackles for loss.   In his last 8 games, Shaq had 4.5 sacks, 21 total tackles and 9 tackles for loss.   In his last 8 games, Phillips had 4.5 sacks, 18 tackles and 6 tackles for loss.  Murphy clearly was not "well below" those two, and keeping Murphy on the team for 2020 costs LESS than it would have cost to keep either Shaq or Phillips. 

 

But please don't let the facts get in the way of your conclusions.   It's obvious that Murphy sucks and only is on the team because McD likes him.    

 

I didn't let the facts get in the way of my conclusion, they are available on nfl.com if you care to look.  I took his work as the whole of the season, not just an outlier of a couple of games.  Murphy was also credited for 8 or 9 QB hits, IIRC, which is one for every other game.  Not good for a DE who sees the majority of snaps at left DE.  Murphy is also terrible at stopping the run and maintaining disciple at the edge, where he routinely got picked on in misdirection and screen plays.

 

Serious question:  is there anything that McD does wrong to you?  You are clearly one of his biggest defenders.  I think he is excellent in the defensive backfield (Bill Belichick commented that the Bills do a great job of disguising coverages), but I think he is inadequate on the offensive side of the ball as well as the front defensive unit.

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2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Trying to recall last season did we have a 4 or 3 man rotation at DE?  I know we had Hughes, Lawson, and Murphy mainly.  And 7th rounder Johnson.  Am I forgetting someone that did play a fair amount of snaps?  Now have Addison, Hughes, Murphy, and Johnson. 

 

At tackle had Oliver, Phillips, Star, and Liguit (once Harrison went down).  This year have Oliver, Star, Harrison, the new guy Butler, but also another or does that last one plat both tackle and end?

 

Corey Ligiut has not been signed by any team yet but appears to be on a number of lists.  Guessing he will sign somewhere post draft.

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9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He completely padded his stats with one game.  He was invisible for most of the season.  And Shaq is a younger, ascending player who has rarely been hurt.  I didn’t want to pay him that much but I do wonder if we didn’t have Trent, would we have?  Because I would rather have Shaq than Kelsey 2.0. 

I don’t think Murphy is Kelsay but I do agree overall Shaq was better and more valuable overall than Trent last year. Better against run. Very underrated in blocking passing lanes and tipping passes. Very consistent overall. Trent made a bunch of good plays. Had better pressure than a lot gave him credit for. I thought Shaq was easily better. 

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