whatdrought Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: So PFF is good now? Nope. Not at all. That’s my point. I don’t care for Higgins, the fact that there are a lot of questions about him and PFF likes him increases my hesitation. 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: ? Didn’t see that edit - to be clear anything under a 4.6 was good for him anyway That's what I saw. Just googled him and CBS sports was saying he ran 2x in the mid 45 range. But not great. Guys like Claypool, Mims, and Jefferson are out doing him physically. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Nope. Not at all. That’s my point. I don’t care for Higgins, the fact that there are a lot of questions about him and PFF likes him increases my hesitation. That's what I saw. Just googled him and CBS sports was saying he ran 2x in the mid 45 range. But not great. Guys like Claypool, Mims, and Jefferson are out doing him physically. I’m not Pro or anti Higgins but I would trust the film on the WRs and not get wrapped up in straightline 40 times. Higgins isn’t a burner to begin with but he’s bigger and faster than say, Michael Thomas and Deandre Hopkins were when they were drafted. His hands are probably some of the best in the draft. my two concerns with Justin Jefferson are that he operated almost completely out of the slot, and Burrow is a pinpoint passer. That’s not to say he couldn’t play outside in the nfl or catch passes that are slightly off target, but just that we haven’t seen it so it’s more of a projection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not Pro or anti Higgins but I would trust the film on the WRs and not get wrapped up in straightline 40 times. Higgins isn’t a burner to begin with but he’s bigger and faster than say, Michael Thomas and Deandre Hopkins were when they were drafted. His hands are probably some of the best in the draft. my two concerns with Justin Jefferson are that he operated almost completely out of the slot, and Burrow is a pinpoint passer. That’s not to say he couldn’t play outside in the nfl or catch passes that are slightly off target, but just that we haven’t seen it so it’s more of a projection. I don’t hate Higgins, and I agree that his film is most important. I’m hesitant about a WR who played with a great QB, on a great football team. Same with Jefferson, who I’m also not in love with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not Pro or anti Higgins but I would trust the film on the WRs and not get wrapped up in straightline 40 times. Higgins isn’t a burner to begin with but he’s bigger and faster than say, Michael Thomas and Deandre Hopkins were when they were drafted. His hands are probably some of the best in the draft. my two concerns with Justin Jefferson are that he operated almost completely out of the slot, and Burrow is a pinpoint passer. That’s not to say he couldn’t play outside in the nfl or catch passes that are slightly off target, but just that we haven’t seen it so it’s more of a projection. I'll ask you a question. Would you take AJ Brown on the Bills? I certainly would and he was a monster out of the slot just like Jefferson. Jefferson played outside predominantly two years ago as well. He has versatility which we know the Bills like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 11:34 AM, BillsMafi$ said: blah, they must love turning ok players into stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: Nope. Not at all. That’s my point. I don’t care for Higgins, the fact that there are a lot of questions about him and PFF likes him increases my hesitation. That's what I saw. Just googled him and CBS sports was saying he ran 2x in the mid 45 range. But not great. Guys like Claypool, Mims, and Jefferson are out doing him physically. What are the “lot of questions” about Higgins? He is what he is. A prototypical x. A wr with a huge catch radius and great hands that can go up and win 50-50 on the reg. He has some speed and runs great routes. I don’t see what all the questions are. He not a little shifty super explosive wr. Not all good wrs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 I haven’t got much love for him at 22 but I have been wrong many times before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not Pro or anti Higgins but I would trust the film on the WRs and not get wrapped up in straightline 40 times. Higgins isn’t a burner to begin with but he’s bigger and faster than say, Michael Thomas and Deandre Hopkins were when they were drafted. His hands are probably some of the best in the draft. my two concerns with Justin Jefferson are that he operated almost completely out of the slot, and Burrow is a pinpoint passer. That’s not to say he couldn’t play outside in the nfl or catch passes that are slightly off target, but just that we haven’t seen it so it’s more of a projection. And higgins only plays on the outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: And higgins only plays on the outside In the Bills case, I think they are looking for an outside WR. For any WR, It is a projection to what they will do from college to the NFL because there is so much variance with that level jump with that particular position from offensive scheme, to QB play, to targets, etc. . You can see what they were asked to do in college and then try to project whether they can or can’t do more in the NFL based on skill set, film study, etc. Just because Jefferson only played the slot in college doesn’t mean he can’t play outside in the NFL, it just means it’s a projection and vice versa for Higgins etc. Per Higgins draft profile he is ideal at the X receiver spot but has the skill set to play anywhere on the field. Edited March 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, YoloinOhio said: In the Bills case, I think they are looking for an outside WR. For any WR, It is a projection to what they will do from college to the NFL because there is so much variance with that level jump with that particular position from offensive scheme, to QB play, to targets, etc. . You can see what they were asked to do in college and then try to project whether they can or can’t do more in the NFL based on skill set, film study, etc. Just because Jefferson only played the slot in college doesn’t mean he can’t play outside in the NFL, it just means it’s a projection and vice versa for Higgins etc. Per Higgins draft profile he is ideal at the X receiver spot but has the skill set to play anywhere on the field. Higgins does not have the skillset to play anywhere on the field, he honestly is too slow to play inside and get any type of separation; his skill set is more for outside work. Versatility and being able to go over the middle, play outside and adjust your routes based on the D look requires very versatile players. Higgins is not all that versatile, frankly there are better prospects ahead of him when it comes to the tier 2 guys and not one of the tier 2 guys will be BPA at 22, that still appears to to be CB. So no, I challenge the thought that we need a traditional X WR, we need players who can catch the ball and are very versatile in their routes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 @YoloinOhio Re: our earlier discussion. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, whatdrought said: @YoloinOhio Re: our earlier discussion. Thats a good time for him either way. 4.43 was very surprising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Thats a good time for him either way. 4.43 was very surprising. I struggle to see it as a "good time" for him when there are other guys with his physical makeup running faster. I don't know really what to think for sure though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I struggle to see it as a "good time" for him when there are other guys with his physical makeup running faster. I don't know really what to think for sure though. It’s a good time for him because that’s what he looks like he runs - matches his game speed and won’t move the needle either way. If he runs a 4.65 or something it’s not a good time. His evaluation was done. The pro day is like a reference check. I saw him at an Ohio state camp as a Recruit and he ran about the same back then. No one expects him to be John Ross in the 40. Edited March 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It’s a good time for him because that’s what he looks like he runs - matches his game speed and won’t move the needle either way. If he runs a 4.65 or something it’s not a good time. His evaluation was done. The pro day is like a reference check. I saw him at an Ohio state camp as a Recruit and he ran about the same back then. No one expects him to be John Ross in the 40. That makes sense, but the problem is that he looks slow on game tape. And that's a concern. Big, lumbering WR's that can't create seperation and are good not great route runners don't go places in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, whatdrought said: That makes sense, but the problem is that he looks slow on game tape. And that's a concern. Big, lumbering WR's that can't create seperation and are good not great route runners don't go places in the NFL. These guys watching different “tape”? Again I don’t watch film. I’ve never heard anyone call him “lumbering” PROS: He displays very good proactive athleticism for the position. For a bigger WR he has some suddenness off the LOS and displays good speed and deep tracking ability on 9 routes. Does a very good job defeating press with foot quickness. Will give up his body to pursue the football. Does a good job of dropping his weight and creating separation at the top of the route Speed - Definitely got more juice than you'd first expect. Does need a runway to get things moving and as a result he'll resort to physicality inside the first 10 yards to win positioning. Once he's open with his strides, look out — he'll take you by surprise and blow past deep safeties late to recognize his vertical push. Edited March 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: That makes sense, but the problem is that he looks slow on game tape. And that's a concern. Big, lumbering WR's that can't create seperation and are good not great route runners don't go places in the NFL. These were the same arguments made against AJ Brown and Ju-Ju for example. That they were going to have issues separating, and to a further extend with Ju-Ju... that the jump ball was going to be a staple if there was going to be success. We dont know what Higgins abilities could be outside of how he was utilized at Clemson and he showed to have an incredible catch radius, terrific hands, smooth deep runner, and a very sound athlete for his size (12 broken tackles for a WR)... Do I personally rate WRs higher than Higgins, surely, but the kid is a very worth while prospect who is being undersold pretty hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, YoloinOhio said: These guys watching different “tape”? Again I don’t watch film. PROS: He displays very good proactive athleticism for the position. For a bigger WR he has some suddenness off the LOS and displays good speed and deep tracking ability on 9 routes. Does a very good job defeating press with foot quickness. Will give up his body to pursue the football. Does a good job of dropping his weight and creating separation at the top of the route I may be wrong, I'm not a tape junky either so I am regurgitating other takes and going off of some stuff I've seen in clips, but I'm no expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: That makes sense, but the problem is that he looks slow on game tape. And that's a concern. Big, lumbering WR's that can't create seperation and are good not great route runners don't go places in the NFL. A 4.54 isn’t a lumbering time. He’s literally in like the 83rd-86th percentile for height adjusted speed score. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: These guys watching different “tape”? Again I don’t watch film. I’ve never heard anyone call him “lumbering” PROS: He displays very good proactive athleticism for the position. For a bigger WR he has some suddenness off the LOS and displays good speed and deep tracking ability on 9 routes. Does a very good job defeating press with foot quickness. Will give up his body to pursue the football. Does a good job of dropping his weight and creating separation at the top of the route Not saying its the case with the poster you are responding with, but echo chambers are certainly real around here. There seem to be a regurgitated narrative of the same "knocks" on Higgins over and over, despite arguments to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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