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Hapless Bills Fan

Take the Covid19 discussion to one of the several appropriate threads dedicated to it.

I'm about to spend some time I could put to better use cleaning up the thread.

If you can't restrain yourself I will restrain you.

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Question for anyone who knows.  Is Jaquan Johnson more a SS or a FS?

Do any of the current CBs have any FS experience?

Wondering this because Jordan Poyer is the only listed FS on the roster.

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2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Question for anyone who knows.  Is Jaquan Johnson more a SS or a FS?

Do any of the current CBs have any FS experience?

Wondering this because Jordan Poyer is the only listed FS on the roster.


I think he’s more of a strong safety, but I don’t think it matters in this scheme. I think they are quite interchangeable. I think Hyde and Poyer both play free and strong throughout games depending on what the defensive coverage and front is. But I feel like Hyde is technically the free safety. Not sure though. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, thebandit27 said:


Definitely not.

 

And a lot of heat should fall on the staff at the time. It was misdiagnosed, then mishandled, and when finally handled properly it was too late to get him into football shape for the back half of 2016. 
 

Next time we saw him play a meaningful game it was for another team.

 

Has he underachieved relative to his draft slot? Absolutely. Has he been the monumental disappointment that some folks imply? Not by a mile.

I’m having a hard time seeing how he’s been any sort of player worth going to bat for, like I’ve seen you do. 
 

I wanna preface this by saying I hold no ill will towards Watkins. I actually thought he was pretty darn good while he was here. That be said, when we talk about his career as a whole, underachieved is quite the understatement. let’s break this down. He was basically a mega-recruit coming out of Clemson. Touted to the max. Everyone knew he wouldn’t get out of the top 5. He proceeds to average 700yds and 5 td a season over his first 6 years. How is this not borderline bust status? i would argue the ONLY thing saving him is the fact he’s put together 2 really good post seasons recently. Other than that if this was any other wr that never played for the bills I think we would all agree he was dangerously close to being a bust. 
 

an elite wr prospect that gets drafted in the top 5 and 6 years later has ONE 1000 yd season under his belt. I’m sorry but that’s a bust.... again I think the only thing saving him is he 2 recent postseason runs. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

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Here's a new way to think about this argument: To have a more technical approach, I looked up the definition of a draft bust. It is someone not living up to where they were drafted. So thinking about this, one way to go would be to look at all #4 overall picks, and see which players you would rather have, Sammy or Player X. If Sammy is in the bottom 20-30% then bust. If he isnt, then I would say he isnt a bust, just not a star for where he was drafted. I unfortunately do not have football knowledge enough to go back far enough to do this. If anybody wants to, here is a list of all 4th overall picks, 1980-2013.

 

4th Overall Draft Picks
Year Player Pos. School Drafted By
2013 Lane Johnson OT Oklahoma Philadelphia
2012 Matt Kalil OT USC Minnesota
2011 AJ Green WR Georgia Cincinnati
2010 Trent Williams OT Oklahoma Washington
2009 Aaron Curry OLB Wake Forest Seattle
2008 Darren McFadden RB Arkansas Oakland
2007 Gaines Adams DE Clemson Tampa Bay
2006 D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia New York Jets
2005 Cedric Benson RB Texas Chicago
2004 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State N.Y. Giants
2003 Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky N.Y. Jets
2002 Mike Williams T Texas Buffalo
2001 Justin Smith DE Missouri Cincinnati
2000 Peter Warrick WR Florida State Cincinnati
1999 Edgerrin James RB Miami Indianapolis
1998 Charles Woodson CB Michigan Oakland
1997 Peter Boulware OLB Florida State Baltimore
1996 Jonathan Ogden T UCLA Baltimore
1995 Michael Westbrook WR Colorado Washington
1994 Willie McGinest OLB Southern California New England
1993 Marvin Jones MLB Florida State N.Y. Jets
1992 Desmond Howard WR Michigan Washington
1991 Mike Croel OLB Nebraska Denver
1990 Keith McCants DE Alabama Tampa Bay
1989 Derrick Thomas DE Alabama Kansas City
1988 Paul Gruber T Wisconsin Tampa Bay
1987 Brent Fullwood RB Auburn Green Bay
1986 Jon Hand DE Alabama Indianapolis
1985 Chris Doleman DE Pittsburgh Minnesota
1984 Kenny Jackson WR Penn State Philadelphia
1983 Chris Hinton T Northwestern Denver
1982 Art Schlichter QB Ohio State Baltimore
1981 Kenny Easley DB UCLA Seattle
1980 Bruce Clark DT Penn State Green Bay

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1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I’m having a hard time seeing how he’s been any sort of player worth going to bat for, like I’ve seen you do. 
 

I wanna preface this by saying I hold no ill will towards Watkins. I actually thought he was pretty darn good while he was here. That be said, when we talk about his career as a whole, underachieved is quite the understatement. let’s break this down. He was basically a mega-recruit coming out of Clemson. Touted to the max. Everyone knew he wouldn’t get out of the top 5. He proceeds to average 700yds and 5 td a season over his first 6 years. How is this not borderline bust status? i would argue the ONLY thing saving him is the fact he’s put together 2 really good post seasons recently. Other than that if this was any other wr that never played for the bills I think we would all agree he was dangerously close to being a bust. 
 

an elite wr prospect that gets drafted in the top 5 and 6 years later has ONE 1000 yd season under his belt. I’m sorry but that’s a bust.... again I think the only thing saving him is he 2 recent postseason runs. 

It was fun goofing on him for being a decoy, etc, but he's part of history now. Anyone can watch footage of him making plays in a Super Bowl that helped his team win the Lombardi,. Like Chris Hogan, that trumps everything else, and can never be taken away from him. Disappointing in Buffalo, yes. Bust, no.

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6 minutes ago, Rico said:

It was fun goofing on him for being a decoy, etc, but he's part of history now. Anyone can watch footage of him making plays in a Super Bowl that helped his team win the Lombardi,. Like Chris Hogan, that trumps everything else, and can never be taken away from him. Disappointing in Buffalo, yes. Bust, no.

 

Agree 100%.  I've never been a Sam Fan.  But there's a difference between not reaching potential and being a bust.  He could have been elite.  He's not.  But he's still very good and can be great at times.

 

I'm just glad he's not in Buffalo anymore.

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1 hour ago, Rico said:

It was fun goofing on him for being a decoy, etc, but he's part of history now. Anyone can watch footage of him making plays in a Super Bowl that helped his team win the Lombardi,. Like Chris Hogan, that trumps everything else, and can never be taken away from him. Disappointing in Buffalo, yes. Bust, no.

Reading what you wrote made me realize the standard for some people is either totally worth it or bust. A player drafted in the top 10 who is average is not a bust unless you think the majority of top 10 picks are busts because most top guys only become average pros. I think a more reasonable standard for bust status is a guy who is out of the league in 4 years. 

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Posted (edited)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108552/article/afc-east-roster-reset-patriots-vulnerable-after-tom-bradys-exit

“AFC East roster reset: Patriots vulnerable after Tom Brady's exit?”

 

I got a laugh out of the author saying that the Bills, after the Diggs trade “have just 7 draft picks” total in this (7 round) draft... lol 

Edited by BillsFan4
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51 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108552/article/afc-east-roster-reset-patriots-vulnerable-after-tom-bradys-exit

“AFC East roster reset: Patriots vulnerable after Tom Brady's exit?”

 

I got a laugh out of the author saying that the Bills, after the Diggs trade “have just 7 draft picks” total in this (7 round) draft... lol 

 

I think the Patriots have 12 and the Dolphins have a bunch early, including as we know, 3 (presently) in the first round.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Agree 100%.  I've never been a Sam Fan.  But there's a difference between not reaching potential and being a bust.  He could have been elite.  He's not.  But he's still very good and can be great at times.

 

I'm just glad he's not in Buffalo anymore.

So 1 single 1000 yd season, in his first 6 years, for a top 5 pick that was regardEd as a generational talent at his position and he’s very good? 

 

so let me get this straight. We are now calling wr’s that have a 6 year average of 700 yds and 5 td a season very good? 
 

 

I get it. Postseason runs. But at what point does a player get held accountable for the totality of his work? This dude has been in the 2 most prolific offenses of the last 3 or 4 years and can’t sniff 1000 yds. If a running back was picked in the top 5, and after 6 seasons had eclipsed 1000 yds ONCE and never made a probowl would we be calling him “very good”? 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

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3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

So 1 single 1000 yd season, in his first 6 years, for a top 5 pick that was regardEd as a generational talent at his position and he’s very good? 

 

so let me get this straight. We are now calling wr’s that have a 6 year average of 700 yds and 5 td a season very good? 
 

 

I get it. Postseason runs. But at what point does a player get held accountable for the totality of his work? This dude has been in the 2 most prolific offenses of the last 3 or 4 years and can’t sniff 1000 yds. If a running back was picked in the top 5, and after 6 seasons had eclipsed 1000 yds ONCE and never made a probowl would we be calling him “very good”? 

 

I was TRYING to be kind.

 

But you're right.  I gave him way too much credit.

 

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20 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I was TRYING to be kind.

 

But you're right.  I gave him way too much credit.

 

I coulda came off as a jerk there. Didn’t mean to. I’m just trying to figure out how a top 5 pick averaging 700 yds a season, in the passing era, isn’t a borderline bust. Literally the only thing keeping Watkins above that threshold is postseason production.  

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Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

I coulda came off as a jerk there. Didn’t mean to. I’m just trying to figure out how a top 5 pick averaging 700 yds a season, in the passing era, isn’t a borderline bust. Literally the only thing keeping Watkins above that threshold is postseason production.  

 

No, dude, I was serious.  You're totally right.  And the drum that you're beating is the same drum I've ALWAYS beaten when it comes to this lazy POS.

 

I had a soft moment and you accurately called me out on it.  Not a jerk at all, brother!!!!

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

So 1 single 1000 yd season, in his first 6 years, for a top 5 pick that was regardEd as a generational talent at his position and he’s very good? 

 

so let me get this straight. We are now calling wr’s that have a 6 year average of 700 yds and 5 td a season very good? 
 

 

I get it. Postseason runs. But at what point does a player get held accountable for the totality of his work? This dude has been in the 2 most prolific offenses of the last 3 or 4 years and can’t sniff 1000 yds. If a running back was picked in the top 5, and after 6 seasons had eclipsed 1000 yds ONCE and never made a probowl would we be calling him “very good”? 

Other recievers with similar numbers over similar time frames- Adam Thielen, John Brown, Mohamed Sanu, Kenny Stills, and two with lesser numbers per year- Edelman and Amendola. So yes 700 per year with 5 TDs makes you good. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Other recievers with similar numbers over similar time frames- Adam Thielen, John Brown, Mohamed Sanu, Kenny Stills, and two with lesser numbers per year- Edelman and Amendola. So yes 700 per year with 5 TDs makes you good. 

I wouldn’t call that a “good” list. Sorry man. And ESPECIALLY when a dude is a top 5 pick. 
 

that’s a couple of good wr’s. Couple of solid/average dudes and a couple of replaceable players. That’s not a good list. 
 

also putting a dude like thielen on their is silly. The guy had to work his way onto a roster his first 2 seasons after being undrafted. Those 2 seasons of fringe play totally skew the numbers. Since he’s established himself his production has put Watkins to shame. But I get it, you’re trying to prove a lame point so you needed to add him without context. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

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20 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I wouldn’t call that a “good” list. Sorry man. And ESPECIALLY when a dude is a top 5 pick. 
 

that’s a couple of good wr’s. Couple of solid/average dudes and a couple of replaceable players. That’s not a good list. 
 

also putting a dude like thielen on their is silly. The guy had to work his way onto a roster his first 2 seasons after being undrafted. Those 2 seasons of fringe play totally slew the numbers. Since he’s established himself his production has put Watkins to shame. But I get it, you’re trying to prove a lame point so you needed to add him without context. 

 

Yeah, and all those other guys were picked in the 3rd round or later so their production is pretty much what you should expect, or didn't expect in a good way.  Watkins, being the 4th overall pick, absolutely should not be grouped with those guys.  I guess if you only look at the numbers, he's been "good", but he's still not living up to his 4th overall pick, not even close.

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I’m sure there’s a perfectly good “Sammy Watkins sucks” thread somewhere for this discussion to continue in. Doesn’t look like there’s any free agency signings happening over the past bit.

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1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

 

I think the Patriots have 12 and the Dolphins have a bunch early, including as we know, 3 (presently) in the first round.

I get what they were saying. I was just nitpicking. I thought it was a weird way to word it. Instead of saying “just”, I would have said the Bills “still” have 7 picks in this draft after the Diggs trade, or something like that.

 

7 picks is the normal amount every team starts with. So we have the normal # of picks, were just missing our 1st and have an extra 6th. We still pick at least once in every round from 2-7. So it’s still basically a full draft (Diggs is just our 1st round pick).

 

like I said, I was just nitpicking. lol 

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1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I wouldn’t call that a “good” list. Sorry man. And ESPECIALLY when a dude is a top 5 pick. 
 

that’s a couple of good wr’s. Couple of solid/average dudes and a couple of replaceable players. That’s not a good list. 
 

also putting a dude like thielen on their is silly. The guy had to work his way onto a roster his first 2 seasons after being undrafted. Those 2 seasons of fringe play totally skew the numbers. Since he’s established himself his production has put Watkins to shame. But I get it, you’re trying to prove a lame point so you needed to add him without context. 

I will continue in the draft bust topic if you want to continue but this is not proper place as pointed out by others. 

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