BillsFanNC Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, shoshin said: 1 - Get going on PPE distribution AND production. 2 - Prepare people to social distance. 3 - Signal to hospitals that they need to start paying a lot of attention to this and get treatments ready. 4 - Start Warp Speed. 5 - Stop holding giant Trump pep rallies when he already knew about how the virus was air transmissible and 5x deadly. Off the top of my head. His actions were wrong...his knowledge as you can see from the tape was not. HE KNEW and wait for it: He's the president. So covid is 5x more deadly than flu? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: So covid is 5x more deadly than flu? I see you ignored my post, which is about Trump, what he said and believed, and how he acted and didn't. (We don't have a good number on that yet, but it's between 3-15x more deadly according to most studies...so Trump was in the range. ) Edited September 10, 2020 by shoshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, GG said: Says the guy who's cheering for the riots. Rule #2, 5G. You are incorrect with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, shoshin said: I see you ignored my post, which is about Trump, what he said and believed, and how he acted and didn't. His public actions were totally in line with what the health officials were recommending at the time, because they didn't think that the virus had taken hold in the US, and would likely follow the path of SARS1 & H1N1. Who told people to not wear masks and go enjoy the public outings throughout February & early March? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, shoshin said: I see you ignored my post, which is about Trump, what he said and believed, and how he acted and didn't. Your TDS is strong. Please don't make any further claims in the name of science. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GG said: Who told people to not wear masks and go enjoy the public outings throughout February & early March? Plenty of stupid mayors and one president of the United States was having rallies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 minute ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Rule #2, 5G. You are incorrect with this post. You can't even use your own inane points? Yeah, I've seen your countless posts denouncing the political violence. 1 minute ago, shoshin said: Plenty of stupid mayors and one president of the United States was having rallies. They are politicians, who were acting at the advice of the medical "experts" at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, GG said: Yeah, I've seen your countless posts denouncing the political violence. You said I cheer for it. Find that post. Rule #2 or ***** off 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said: You said I cheer for it. Find that post. Rule #2 or ***** off I thought silence is violence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: I thought silence is violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said: “Go Bills - this board has lost it's luster. I'll be back when Biden wins. Until then, sayonara all.” - WHO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, DFT said: “Go Bills - this board has lost it's luster. I'll be back when Biden wins. Until then, sayonara all.” - WHO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: More importantly, unlike heart disease or smoking....WE HAVE NO CURE for this virus. So these ‘leadership experts’ want the President to do what exactly? I'm not a leadership expert, but if you accept that Trump knew the virus was going to be bad in late February what could he have done differently? Plenty. Absolutely he did great cutting flights from China and Europe. Plenty of stupid people criticized him at the time and now those same people are crying he should have done it earlier. Whatever, he deserves full marks for stepping up here. What could he have done differently? One easy catch-all answer: SET A BETTER TONE FROM THE TOP. Try to avoid panic? Yep, good job and understandable. Get the nation at large to take the pandemic seriously? Total fail. Wear a mask. There's unrefutable reasons surgeons wear masks. Those apply here. Most importantly, masks protect others and instead of us pulling together as a society for something so simple, it got politicized and pulled us apart. What role did Trump play in this? Yuuuge. Get the message out alongside democrats that this virus is real and to set politics aside, be a good American and pull together for each other despite personal opinions. Force businesses to implement distancing measures before the shutdown, especially senior care facilities. Very few were willing to do it unless forced. Instead, we had to shut them all down. Getting the economy going? No one discusses this much, but even with businesses open, there's a large percent of the population that won't take a chance going to them because of all the people that don't take Covid seriously. This post's long enough, there's much more but Trump's tactic of being optimistic while refusing to advocate a cautious, nonpolitical tone has made this entire bad situation worse, medically, socially, and economically. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, shoshin said: That #HeKnew it was more deadly and contagious is not as newsworthy as that #HeKnew it was more deadly and contagious and did nothing except downplay it until it was far too late ( and even then continued to downplay it). We can't know how different NYC would have been if it had proper PPE and a ready population prepared in a united response, but they could have seen something more akin to the fatality rate we're seeing today. I don't fully fault Trump for this but he is POTUS and he says he knew it was 5x more fatal than the flu and more contagious. (Did Tucker really shoot Lindsay Graham and Bob Woodward over this? WTF happened to that guy? He used to be a pretty solid minded commentator.) Sorry--this topic is in two places so I am pulling my response here. You don't choose your leadership stances based on "people won't listen." You choose them based on, I hope, "This is important and I--as your sworn leader with a duty to protect you--need to convince you to listen." Leaders lead. They don't shrug. Look up the concept of federalism. Then read about Nancy Pelosi's visit to Chinatown in SF on 2-24-20. After that, look up what Cuomo and De Blasio were saying in March as it pertained to going out to dinner and the theater. Look up what Cuomo did with the NYS stash of ventilators in 2015. Then when NYS was deep in the throes of the virus look up the fabulous things Cuomo was saying about the federal government's response to it. After that is done, check on what Cuomo ordered people that still were contagious to do as it pertains to nursing homes. While you are at it, consider all of the hospital beds that were unused in the Mercy ship and Javits Center, all provided by the federal government. You might want to also see what Dr. Fauci recently had to say about Trump's statements and performance in regards to fighting the virus. We were actually set up and attacked by China, sneaking this virus into our country (and elsewhere) while they simultaneously hoarded the protective equipment necessary to fight it. Trump mobilized the manufacture of protective equipment and ventilators much like FDR mobilized against Japan. The attacks on Trump are nothing more than seedy politics at its worst. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-baby! Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, 3rdnlng said: Look up the concept of federalism. Then read about Nancy Pelosi's visit to Chinatown in SF on 2-24-20. After that, look up what Cuomo and De Blasio were saying in March as it pertained to going out to dinner and the theater. Look up what Cuomo did with the NYS stash of ventilators in 2015. Then when NYS was deep in the throes of the virus look up the fabulous things Cuomo was saying about the federal government's response to it. After that is done, check on what Cuomo ordered people that still were contagious to do as it pertains to nursing homes. While you are at it, consider all of the hospital beds that were unused in the Mercy ship and Javits Center, all provided by the federal government. You might want to also see what Dr. Fauci recently had to say about Trump's statements and performance in regards to fighting the virus. We were actually set up and attacked by China, sneaking this virus into our country (and elsewhere) while they simultaneously hoarded the protective equipment necessary to fight it. Trump mobilized the manufacture of protective equipment and ventilators much like FDR mobilized against Japan. The attacks on Trump are nothing more than seedy politics at its worst. Ah, but, but everyone else! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) Trying to keep the nation calm? Didn't work Edited September 10, 2020 by wAcKy ZeBrA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: I'm not a leadership expert, but if you accept that Trump knew the virus was going to be bad in late February what could he have done differently? Plenty. Absolutely he did great cutting flights from China and Europe. Plenty of stupid people criticized him at the time and now those same people are crying he should have done it earlier. Whatever, he deserves full marks for stepping up here. What could he have done differently? One easy catch-all answer: SET A BETTER TONE FROM THE TOP. Try to avoid panic? Yep, good job and understandable. Get the nation at large to take the pandemic seriously? Total fail. Wear a mask. There's unrefutable reasons surgeons wear masks. Those apply here. Most importantly, masks protect others and instead of us pulling together as a society for something so simple, it got politicized and pulled us apart. What role did Trump play in this? Yuuuge. Get the message out alongside democrats that this virus is real and to set politics aside, be a good American and pull together for each other despite personal opinions. Force businesses to implement distancing measures before the shutdown, especially senior care facilities. Very few were willing to do it unless forced. Instead, we had to shut them all down. Getting the economy going? No one discusses this much, but even with businesses open, there's a large percent of the population that won't take a chance going to them because of all the people that don't take Covid seriously. This post's long enough, there's much more but Trump's tactic of being optimistic while refusing to advocate a cautious, nonpolitical tone has made this entire bad situation worse, medically, socially, and economically. Thank you. So well said. It was a failure of leadership from the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Look up the concept of federalism. Then read about Nancy Pelosi's visit to Chinatown in SF on 2-24-20. After that, look up what Cuomo and De Blasio were saying in March as it pertained to going out to dinner and the theater. Look up what Cuomo did with the NYS stash of ventilators in 2015. Then when NYS was deep in the throes of the virus look up the fabulous things Cuomo was saying about the federal government's response to it. After that is done, check on what Cuomo ordered people that still were contagious to do as it pertains to nursing homes. While you are at it, consider all of the hospital beds that were unused in the Mercy ship and Javits Center, all provided by the federal government. You might want to also see what Dr. Fauci recently had to say about Trump's statements and performance in regards to fighting the virus. We were actually set up and attacked by China, sneaking this virus into our country (and elsewhere) while they simultaneously hoarded the protective equipment necessary to fight it. Trump mobilized the manufacture of protective equipment and ventilators much like FDR mobilized against Japan. The attacks on Trump are nothing more than seedy politics at its worst. This argument is divided by two sides and can be judged easily by the content which they contribute on their behalf... Those that can admit the president acted accordingly under unprecedented circumstances (amidst a seething political corruption scheme, a lab-released pandemic of unknown capabilities and a compromised media) & Those that hate Trump, justify riots as mostly peaceful protests, find no issues with an-named sources and think there’s validity in the Russian investigation. 5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Thank you. So well said. It was a failure of leadership from the top. The Nina... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Trying to keep the nation calm? Didn't work How many tons of PPE did Trump send to China? Yes, initially China had us fooled. Maybe if we had more spies on the ground there we could have confirmed what was going on a little sooner. Shall we talk about what actions depleted our in country espionage in China? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, DFT said: Those that can admit the president acted accordingly under unprecedented circumstances I give him and many others a lot of leeway because this was new, and have said so, but Trump is on record in Feb and March saying it was 5x more deadly than the flu and air transmissible ... and in the meantime not taking active steps to get the country prepared for a pandemic ... and also holding multiple giant rallies. So there's that. If he got everyone worked up and nothing happened, he'd deserve some blame. What he did was minimal early on and lots happened. He deserves some blame. That's the burden of being the big man. When you make the wrong decision, you're accountable for it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Yes, initially China had us fooled. Maybe if we had more spies on the ground there we could have confirmed what was going on a little sooner. Shall we talk about what actions depleted our in country espionage in China? And this is the point. Even if China had “us” fooled, the Woodward tapes reflect that Trump knew of the dangers of the virus in February and March of this year, and that Trump knowingly downplayed those dangers. So at that point, Trump fooled us, and perhaps himself. And that is where the blame lies here. Edited September 10, 2020 by SectionC3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: I'm not a leadership expert, but if you accept that Trump knew the virus was going to be bad in late February what could he have done differently? Plenty. Absolutely he did great cutting flights from China and Europe. Plenty of stupid people criticized him at the time and now those same people are crying he should have done it earlier. Whatever, he deserves full marks for stepping up here. What could he have done differently? One easy catch-all answer: SET A BETTER TONE FROM THE TOP. Try to avoid panic? Yep, good job and understandable. Get the nation at large to take the pandemic seriously? Total fail. Wear a mask. There's unrefutable reasons surgeons wear masks. Those apply here. Most importantly, masks protect others and instead of us pulling together as a society for something so simple, it got politicized and pulled us apart. What role did Trump play in this? Yuuuge. Get the message out alongside democrats that this virus is real and to set politics aside, be a good American and pull together for each other despite personal opinions. Force businesses to implement distancing measures before the shutdown, especially senior care facilities. Very few were willing to do it unless forced. Instead, we had to shut them all down. Getting the economy going? No one discusses this much, but even with businesses open, there's a large percent of the population that won't take a chance going to them because of all the people that don't take Covid seriously. This post's long enough, there's much more but Trump's tactic of being optimistic while refusing to advocate a cautious, nonpolitical tone has made this entire bad situation worse, medically, socially, and economically. Trump made things so political while the poor innocent loyal opposition was just trying to get through their Unity Impeachment Trial? What a crockofshit. The dems have been fighting Trump tooth and nail for the last 4 years. They've used every dirty trick and lie possible to bring him down and now the deeply partisan tone is all his fault? "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, shoshin said: I give him and many others a lot of leeway because this was new, and have said so, but Trump is on record in Feb and March saying it was 5x more deadly than the flu and air transmissible ... and in the meantime not taking active steps to get the country prepared for a pandemic ... and also holding multiple giant rallies. So there's that. If he got everyone worked up and nothing happened, he'd deserve some blame. What he did was minimal early on and lots happened. He deserves some blame. That's the burden of being the big man. When you make the wrong decision, you're accountable for it. Agree to disagree. I think he acted appropriately. I think many of the governors and local politicians are the ones who did not. But I appreciate your points! 🍻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Hindsight is very clear, is it not? I know people want to dunk on Trump and Cuomo, but in February, March, and April little was known about the Wuhan virus. I still think intelligence reports reported some sort of bio-weapon coming out of Wuhan, and that is why flights from China were stopped. I wonder if the the intelligence reports thought that would contain whatever they suspected it was? You want to dunk on people? How about Cuomo not fully opening NYS? How about his threatening WNY shutdowns again? How about his killing NYC businesses like restaurants because people can riot without a mask (and not be arrested), but cannot walk through a restaurant without a mask (and will be arrested). How about the news not reporting hospitalizations or deaths these days, instead they report "new cases" (which means poopie is they are asymptomatic or people are over it in a few days) and "new cases" by percentages to scare the masses? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I know people want to dunk on Trump and Cuomo hmm 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: You want to dunk on people? How about Cuomo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said: hmm “Go Bills - this board has lost it's luster. I'll be back when Biden wins. Until then, sayonara all.” - Casey Anthony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: And this is the point. Even if China had “us” fooled, the Woodward tapes reflect that Trump knew of the dangers of the virus in February and March of this year, and that Trump knowingly downplayed those dangers. So at that point, Trump fooled us, and perhaps himself. And that is where the blame lies here. The Woodward tapes showed nothing more than what was said publicly at the time. This is just another manufactured crises created by the Left to try to denigrate Trump. If you are truly an attorney I would consider you an educated person. It's a shame when "educated" crosses paths with "dumb as a rock" and the rock wins. Your TDS is what determines your thinking. It is the driving force of all of your opinions. If I had to compare you with someone it would be Harry Reid. Think on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Your TDS is what determines your thinking. Rule #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Using a global pandemic for political gain is wrong no matter what. Either side. Period. Nobody knew in Feb/March and still nobody knows how this all shakes out. The entire world is a petri dish and we are in mid experiment collecting data in real time. Making conclusions mid experiment before all the data has been collected and analyzed is anti-science. Doing it to score political points, on either side, is dead wrong and if you buy into any of it then you're allowing yourself to be manipulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Rule #2 Your response is nothing more than a surrender, acknowledging that you have nothing to really say. How does it feel to be a minion of an MT Chair? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The Woodward tapes showed nothing more than what was said publicly at the time. This is just another manufactured crises created by the Left to try to denigrate Trump. If you are truly an attorney I would consider you an educated person. It's a shame when "educated" crosses paths with "dumb as a rock" and the rock wins. Your TDS is what determines your thinking. It is the driving force of all of your opinions. If I had to compare you with someone it would be Harry Reid. Think on that. Rule #2, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trump Virus Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The Woodward tapes showed nothing more than what was said publicly at the time. This is just another manufactured crises created by the Left to try to denigrate Trump. If you are truly an attorney I would consider you an educated person. It's a shame when "educated" crosses paths with "dumb as a rock" and the rock wins. Your TDS is what determines your thinking. It is the driving force of all of your opinions. If I had to compare you with someone it would be Harry Reid. Think on that. Wow! Not even remotely close to reality. Are you on drugs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Rule #2, sir. You've graduated to "Childish Clown". What a waste of a supposed education. You've allowed yourself to become a narrow thinker, incapable of independent thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: You've graduated to "Childish Clown". What a waste of a supposed education. You've allowed yourself to become a narrow thinker, incapable of independent thought. So you can’t satisfy Rule #2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trump Virus Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, B-Man said: Yes, it's on him to protect America, not the president. 🤪 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 minute ago, The Trump Virus said: Yes, it's on him to protect America, not the president. 🤪 "Hall of Fame" misrepresentation of the post............Congrats. "The fact Bob Woodward has written another book about the current occupant of the White House should be greeted with roughly the level of enthusiasm reserved for..." "... such annual or semi-annual non-events as the Biennial Conference of the American Hippotherapy Association or the Pro Bowl. I would be tempted to suggest that the latest affectless, indifferently written Woodward volume is a matter of at most seasonal interest, like the early September appearance of Halloween candy in supermarkets, except that unlike the former, Rage is unlikely to bring pleasure to any living American.... Why do presidents talk to Woodward? Is it some kind of tradition, cloying but innocuous like the White House Turkey Pardon? His modus operandi is by now fairly well established: Speak to him because if you do not he will publish hundreds of pages of decontextualized gossip from disgruntled agenda-driven current or ex-employees. He will in fact probably do so regardless of what you say to him and when, but why spoil the fun? What Woodward does is not journalism. It is, as Joan Didion memorably put it, 'political pornography.'" From "There's nothing shocking about Bob Woodward's new book" by Matthew Walther (The Week). Posted by Ann Althouse 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Trump Virus said: Yes, it's on him to protect America, not the president. 🤪 Trying to make this story about Bob Woodward and Lindsay Graham is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, shoshin said: Trying to make this story about Bob Woodward and Lindsay Graham is not working. This story will change zero people's minds -- because it's a nothing story dressed up as if it were a bombshell. It's not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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