The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...good job Doc......"just keep matriculating these posters back to the sidelines".............👍

The respondent wants folks like you and me to die so he can do what he wants.  If this attitude ever prevailed what would keep them from just gathering up all us older folk and eliminating us?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The respondent wants folks like you and me to die so he can do what he wants.  If this attitude ever prevailed what would keep them from just gathering up all us older folk and eliminating us?

 

...their mantra is, "if you can't beat 'em....eliminate 'em"........at least us "seasoned folks", regardless of party affiliation, can engage in CIVIL discourse in a tolerant and respectful way....RESPECT in today's society is LONG GONE......BUT.....there are those within the "seasoned ranks" that are arrogant, condescending and want to force their views on you...my relatives are a perfect example....they are dyed in the wool, staunch Dems forever.......I'm talking "CNN IS gospel.......EVER voting for ANY Republican is heresy and treason...".....they loved family outings where they could bait and goad you into a "discussion (COUGH)"......their favorite line is/was, ".....let me explain THIS for you"........a cousin who is a Trump supporter was unfriended on FB by another cousin and his wife (epitome of condescending arrogance), citing him as "a lunatic and unfit to be a father raising children in such a radical household".....quarantined myself from all of them 12 years ago and still counting.....their "thinking (COUGH)" was ingrained by their late parents, my aunts in particular...my late mother referred to Reagan as "nothing but a B-rated movie actor"......her late sister, a self-proclaimed political EXPERT because she lived in VA said, "Ronald Reagan ruined my life" followed by 911 quip, "George Bush is NOT MY President"......or another late sister who agonized over voting for Obama because "I don't think I can vote for a black man".....black man vs a Republican vote?.....yup she voted Obama.....

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...their mantra is, "if you can't beat 'em....eliminate 'em"........at least us "seasoned folks", regardless of party affiliation, can engage in CIVIL discourse in a tolerant and respectful way....RESPECT in today's society is LONG GONE......BUT.....there are those within the "seasoned ranks" that are arrogant, condescending and want to force their views on you...my relatives are a perfect example....they are dyed in the wool, staunch Dems forever.......I'm talking "CNN IS gospel.......EVER voting for ANY Republican is heresy and treason...".....they loved family outings where they could bait and goad you into a "discussion (COUGH)"......their favorite line is/was, ".....let me explain THIS for you"........a cousin who is a Trump supporter was unfriended on FB by another cousin and his wife (epitome of condescending arrogance), citing him as "a lunatic and unfit to be a father raising children in such a radical household".....quarantined myself from all of them 12 years ago and still counting.....their "thinking (COUGH)" was ingrained by their late parents, my aunts in particular...my late mother referred to Reagan as "nothing but a B-rated movie actor"......her late sister, a self-proclaimed political EXPERT because she lived in VA said, "Ronald Reagan ruined my life" followed by 911 quip, "George Bush is NOT MY President"......or another late sister who agonized over voting for Obama because "I don't think I can vote for a black man".....black man vs a Republican vote?.....yup she voted Obama.....

Sad.  And with respect to Covid the virus doesn’t care a whit about politics, etc.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Sad.  And with respect to Covid the virus doesn’t care a whit about politics, etc.

 

 

....my astute (COUGH) relatives lay the entire Covid-19 blame at Trump's feet.......now if, IF a Dem was in charge at 1600 Pennsylvania and the response was the same, their penny loafers would be drowning in positive drool......hypocrisy is a trait "solely for the other side"....

[Bakin]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

So you have to eliminate data to make your argument.  Perfect.

 

Their mortality and infection rates are higher than most every country.  That is fact.

 

Spare me the gratuitous Karen insults.  We can do things to mitigate spread and still be out doing the things we want to do.

Sorry - let’s keep San Marino and Andorra.

And that puts Sweden 16th. Happy?  Proves my argument even better. Thanks. 
you were saying they are 5th?

mortality and infection higher than most every country?  
They are 16th. 
With NO MASKS and NO LOCKDOWN. 

Why do you feel the need to make up data to prove a point?

PROVE IT!

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Bakin

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

A pandemic definition includes a disease that occurs in multiple countries and in large numbers of people.  So Covid qualifies.

 

What I will continue to say is that we can do things in public like shopping, etc.  but just do so safely.  Wear masks if close together, do things outside in smaller groups, wash your hands.  Yesterday I went to a bar with a friend and had a couple beers, wore our masks in and out and the bar had seating that separated folks.  Went to work this morning and I and my patient had on masks.  Going into church right now; seats are spread out more and we all will disinfect our hands on the way in and wear masks.  And some will join us on line.

 

We are basically being asked to do three things.  Why we all cannot or will not do that is simply mind boggling.

Until when? Forever?

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Sorry - let’s keep San Marino and Andorra.

And that puts Sweden 16th. Happy?  Proves my argument even better. Thanks. 
you were saying they are 5th?

mortality and infection higher than most every country?  
They are 16th. 
With NO MASKS and NO LOCKDOWN. 

Why do you feel the need to make up data to prove a point?

PROVE IT!

 

Table 2.  Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US Compared With That in Other Countries^a

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Until when? Forever?

No.  Until we get the infection rate lower than the percentage advised by the CDC and other health experts.  Then you can more easily trace and isolate affected individuals.  Or until we get an effective vaccine and/or treatments.

 

You have to remember this is a new virus.  It can be carried by asymptomatic individuals who can then infect others, it has dramatically different effects on different people and we still don’t know why, we don’t know what the long term health effects will be.  And as tired as we all are of this, infection rates are rising in most states.

 

i think the most frustrating thing to me is that we as a country refuse to pull together to end this thing.  Other than the Vietnam war, when I think of other national crises our country has faced such as wars, economic issues and such, we all pull together as Americans.  Why we don’t today is just sad.

[spartacus]

1 hour ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

This thread is getting good now!  Keep up the accusations!

DEBONKED like Hunter.

 

shoshin the great has Snoped your ass.

Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths from all causes during a crisis above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions.¹ In this case, we’re interested in how deaths during the COVID-19 pandemic compare to the average number of deaths over the same period in previous years.

 

it is comparing total deaths to a projected number of deaths based on past history.

 

a misleading statistic as it totally ignores the actual deaths from other causes in the current year.

what actually happpened is those "other" deahts have been reclassed to Covid deaths- while total deaths have been consistent with total deaths of prior years

https://www.rightwirereport.com/2020/05/10/cdc-reports-26-3-less-all-deaths-in-2020-than-2018-gobbledygook-coronavirus-math/

 

 

 

[Unforgiven]

The New York Times summarized the results of the study: 

“In the end, no drug or combination reduced mortality, the chances that mechanical ventilation would be needed, or time spent in the hospital, compared with the patients without drug treatment,” 

Dr. Fauci is heavily invested in Remdesivir succeeding. Since 2014, he has dedicated massive taxpayer resources into studying and hyping Gilead’s product through the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which he has led since 1984.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fauci, just another fos democrat out for himself.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Are you being obtuse? The pandemic is being used to drive us against each other.  There is no pulling together when half the country is considered Nazis by the other half. It would have to be a way better (deadlier) virus to get people to forget their political leanings.

Claiming I am obtuse because I want our country to unite in defeating this virus simply shows the problem.  We need to quit calling names and work together.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

I’m right there with ya spartacus, I agree and have added up the CDC’s stupid weekly death numbers and compared them to past years total deaths. The run rate for 2020 is not panning out like you’d expect, basically looks like the same number of dead as years past.

 

Check back in when they come up with a better virus.

Then that means lining up under the Commander in Chief and not complaining like a 12 year old when he gives you marching orders, Lieutenant Oldmanfan.

Not when his orders can kill people.  Masks, distancing, handwashing.  They work.  Of these he refuses to enact two of them, and you saw what happened with infections at the White House 

[spartacus]

5 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

simply not true. Like when you asserted that standards for pcr tests changed but they didn't, deaths for all causes are up. I've linked the CDC data upthread when you posted this earlier and you ignored it and here is more data for both Europe and the US. 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

 

Excess deaths is no reason to panic but can we stop with the nonsense that nothing is happening. 

 

You are a consistent source of misleading data. 

 

just to clarify

prior to June, testing was being done primarily on those with symptoms- thus a positive result could be visually confirmed

prior to June, availability of tests increased, but positive cases did not

 

in June, positive tests went thru the roof - although not many of the positives were actually sick

 

the instructions from the CDC to testing labs on linked below.

this was updated on June 12

  on pg 26, item 3(f) the CDC is directing labs to run 45 reps (cycles) in all tests _ resulting in 35 TRILLION copies of the tested material

Other scientists maintain that running the test at anything more than 30 cycles (5 million copies) is not valid  due to picking up non-covid and dead genetic matter

 

The NFL chief medic has acknowledged the above reality-

 

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

 

WHY  IS THE CDC MANDATING RUNNING TESTS AT 45 CYCLES?

 

 

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Not when his orders can kill people.  Masks, distancing, handwashing.  They work.  Of these he refuses to enact two of them, and you saw what happened with infections at the White House 

what I saw at the White House ois a bunch of people tested positive

a few, including the Pres as an older at risk person, were treated in the early days and fully recovered

 

just what most Americans should be doing

 

no hiding in their closet or relying on their mask to save them

[shoshin]

8 minutes ago, spartacus said:

 

just to clarify

prior to June, testing was being done primarily on those with symptoms- thus a positive result could be visually confirmed

prior to June, availability of tests increased, but positive cases did not

 

in June, positive tests went thru the roof - although not many of the positives were actually sick

 

the instructions from the CDC to testing labs on linked below.

this was updated on June 12

  on pg 26, item 3(f) the CDC is directing labs to run 45 reps (cycles) in all tests _ resulting in 35 TRILLION copies of the tested material

Other scientists maintain that running the test at anything more than 30 cycles (5 million copies) is not valid  due to picking up non-covid and dead genetic matter

 

The NFL chief medic has acknowledged the above reality-

 

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

 

WHY  IS THE CDC MANDATING RUNNING TESTS AT 45 CYCLES?

 

 

 

 

You ignored the data I linked. Twice now.

[spartacus]

24 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

The New York Times summarized the results of the study: 

“In the end, no drug or combination reduced mortality, the chances that mechanical ventilation would be needed, or time spent in the hospital, compared with the patients without drug treatment,” 

Dr. Fauci is heavily invested in Remdesivir succeeding. Since 2014, he has dedicated massive taxpayer resources into studying and hyping Gilead’s product through the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which he has led since 1984.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fauci, just another fos democrat out for himself.

 

agree about Fauci

disagree about the results of the "study"

it is  designed to produce fear porn -that nothing works on the vrius

 

It is accepted "science" that early treatment is critical

yet this "study" ignored early treatment as a key variable

 

from the link-

"The trial participants were treated at 405 different hospitals around the world, each with their own treatment protocols, so factors beyond remdesivir may have impacted patient survival, he noted. In addition, remdesivir may still offer benefit to patients if given early in the course of their illness, but that wasn't specifically addressed by the new study, Dr. Maricar Malinis, an infectious diseases physician at Yale University, told the Times.

 

 just marketing pushing an agenda

 

 

 

 

[Bakin]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Table 2.  Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US Compared With That in Other Countries^a

 

Thanks for your 3 month old data

Are we clear now that Sweden is NOT 5th in mortality, specifically deaths per 100k?

 

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

No.  Until we get the infection rate lower than the percentage advised by the CDC and other health experts.  Then you can more easily trace and isolate affected individuals.  Or until we get an effective vaccine and/or treatments.

 

You have to remember this is a new virus.  It can be carried by asymptomatic individuals who can then infect others, it has dramatically different effects on different people and we still don’t know why, we don’t know what the long term health effects will be.  And as tired as we all are of this, infection rates are rising in most states.

 

i think the most frustrating thing to me is that we as a country refuse to pull together to end this thing.  Other than the Vietnam war, when I think of other national crises our country has faced such as wars, economic issues and such, we all pull together as Americans.  Why we don’t today is just sad.

End this thing?

We don’t even have confirmation on exactly how it started, how it works, how it spreads, how it mutates. It hasn’t been precisely isolated...the tests are inaccurate. 

Virus gonna virus. 
Sweden is the example for us all. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Bakin

[spartacus]

21 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You ignored the data I linked. Twice now.

see my other post

 

why don't you address the point you brought up- running PCR at an absurb 45 cycle counts

under than generating bogus positive tests for healthy people - WHY?

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, spartacus said:

see my other post

 

why don't you address the point you brought up- running PCR at an absurb 45 cycle counts

under than generating bogus positive tests for healthy people - WHY?

 

We discussed it before. Your original point when you raised it was that there was a standard change in June. There's wasn't. 

 

3x you are ignoring the actual data, unless you count your link to "rightwirereport" as a source. Look at ACTUAL death data if you want. It also shows excess, both here and in Europe. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by shoshin

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

The New York Times summarized the results of the study: 

“In the end, no drug or combination reduced mortality, the chances that mechanical ventilation would be needed, or time spent in the hospital, compared with the patients without drug treatment,” 

Dr. Fauci is heavily invested in Remdesivir succeeding. Since 2014, he has dedicated massive taxpayer resources into studying and hyping Gilead’s product through the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which he has led since 1984.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fauci, just another fos democrat out for himself.

 

What exactly is a "fos democrat"?  

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, spartacus said:

 

agree about Fauci

disagree about the results of the "study"

it is  designed to produce fear porn -that nothing works on the vrius

 

It is accepted "science" that early treatment is critical

yet this "study" ignored early treatment as a key variable

 

from the link-

"The trial participants were treated at 405 different hospitals around the world, each with their own treatment protocols, so factors beyond remdesivir may have impacted patient survival, he noted. In addition, remdesivir may still offer benefit to patients if given early in the course of their illness, but that wasn't specifically addressed by the new study, Dr. Maricar Malinis, an infectious diseases physician at Yale University, told the Times.

 

 just marketing pushing an agenda

 

 

 

 

 

...wonder how many shares of stock he holds?????...............

[BuffaloHokie13]

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

What exactly is a "fos democrat"?  

 

Taking a stab in the dark, full of 💩

[Kemp]

 

[spartacus]

8 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

why are not the mask working to stop this plague

 

positive test only due to 45 cycle counts

yet minimal sick

deaths not spiking

 

way to push an agenda

 

 

[ALF]

12 minutes ago, spartacus said:

why are not the mask working to stop this plague

 

positive test only due to 45 cycle counts

yet minimal sick

deaths not spiking

 

way to push an agenda

 

 

 

Are increased hospital admissions not a concern ?

[Kemp]

16 minutes ago, spartacus said:

why are not the mask working to stop this plague

 

positive test only due to 45 cycle counts

yet minimal sick

deaths not spiking

 

way to push an agenda

 

 

 

I always make the mistaken assumption that people understand that unless everyone wears a mask, the strategy can't work. 

 

Trump supporters are ensuring the deaths of an incredible amount of people, and they don't care at at all, unless it hits someone they care about.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/10/19/infectious-disease-expert-coming-weeks-will-be-darkest-of-covid-19/

[spartacus]

37 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Are increased hospital admissions not a concern ?

not if there is plenty of capacity

 

 

if health was a major concern, why are not out-patient treatments being pushed by the media

maybe those hospitalizations are from the flu

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by spartacus

[shoshin]

46 minutes ago, spartacus said:

not if there is plenty of capacity

 

 

if health was a major concern, why are not out-patient treatments being pushed by the media

maybe those hospitalizations are from the flu

 

 

CDC data looks about the same as last year so far. 600 cases more is nothing (see the totals below) especially when you look at a socially distanced, more flu shot-receiving, warmer fall so far and where this curve usually goes.

 

It's going to be mid 70s all week this week in PA. Not flu weather yet. 

 

Call me at weeks 50-52.  

 

 

You have to admit: That's a crazily misleading data point from FoxNews. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by shoshin

[B-Man]

 

 

This is more Cuomo Bullsh*t

 

Pennsylvania among 5 new states expected to be added to ...

www.wgrz.com › article › news › health › coronavirus

 

2 hours ago — The advisory projection list is based on the number of new COVID-19 ... BUFFALO, N.Y. — For the first time since the New York State travel ...

 

 

 

[Gary M]

3 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

I always make the mistaken assumption that people understand that unless everyone wears a mask, the strategy can't work. 

 

Trump supporters are ensuring the deaths of an incredible amount of people, and they don't care at at all, unless it hits someone they care about.

 

 

So the vulnerable aren't wearing their masks?

 

Only Trump supporters are getting sick?

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/kamala-harris-coronavirus-positive-covid-tests-429569

 

Masks aren't working, virus gonna virus

 

 

3 hours ago, ALF said:

 

Are increased hospital admissions not a concern ?

 

No, Thanks to Trump we have the ventilators that Cuomo and Obama didn't replenish

[spartacus]

1 hour ago, Gary M said:

 

So the vulnerable aren't wearing their masks?

 

Only Trump supporters are getting sick?

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/kamala-harris-coronavirus-positive-covid-tests-429569

 

Masks aren't working, virus gonna virus

 

 

 

No, Thanks to Trump we have the ventilators that Cuomo and Obama didn't replenish

 

even better- the huge need for ventilators was only due to bad diagnosis early on.

The virus did not bring on pneumonia and loss of lung muscle, but instead oxygen shortage simialr to high altitude sickness

Oxygen is the answer, not ramming ventilators down their throats

 

early treatment with zinc, HQC and z-pack will solve most cases within a day or 2

those that don't believe in the zinc treatment can then get to the front of the ventilator line (no waiting)

 

 

[Gary M]

4 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

CDC data looks about the same as last year so far. 600 cases more is nothing (see the totals below) especially when you look at a socially distanced, more flu shot-receiving, warmer fall so far and where this curve usually goes.

 

It's going to be mid 70s all week this week in PA. Not flu weather yet. 

 

Call me at weeks 50-52.  

 

 

You have to admit: That's a crazily misleading data point from FoxNews. 

 

This is world wide, getting kung flu is not a death sentence.

 

At this point IF you get it, you may not even know unless you are tested.

 

 

[Kemp]

5 hours ago, Gary M said:

 

So the vulnerable aren't wearing their masks?

 

Only Trump supporters are getting sick?

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/kamala-harris-coronavirus-positive-covid-tests-429569

 

Masks aren't working, virus gonna virus

 

 

 

No, Thanks to Trump we have the ventilators that Cuomo and Obama didn't replenish

 

A couple of logic failures in there.

[B-Man]

 

 

SO I GUESS WE DID THINGS PERFECTLY: 

 

 

March 30, 2020: Dr. Birx predicts up to 200,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths ‘if we do things almost perfectly’.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary M]

12 hours ago, B-Man said:

SO I GUESS WE DID THINGS PERFECTLY: 

 

 

March 30, 2020: Dr. Birx predicts up to 200,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths ‘if we do things almost perfectly’.

 

Stop!  It's all Trumps fault

[Kemp]

NEW THIS MORNING: 
Dr. Fauci with ice-cold response to new @realDonaldTrump attacks:

"It's like in 'The Godfather:' nothing personal, strictly business...I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country."

NOTE: This is what's said before someone gets whacked

[Gary M]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

NEW THIS MORNING: 
Dr. Fauci with ice-cold response to new @realDonaldTrump attacks:

"It's like in 'The Godfather:' nothing personal, strictly business...I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country."

NOTE: This is what's said before someone gets whacked

 

Is Hillary mad at him?

 

[Kemp]

19 minutes ago, Gary M said:

 

Is Hillary mad at him?

 

 

You're still stuck on Hillary?

[Gary M]

53 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

You're still stuck on Hillary?

 

Nope not at all.

[spartacus]

1 hour ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

This thread is kind of funny.  Almost no new information since the mass exodus, meanwhile many happenings with regards to COVID outside the US.

Probably because Europe ramped up their PCR tests to 45 cycles

[B-Man]

 

THIS IS LITERALLY THE LINE THEY’VE BEEN SELLING: