The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[shoshin]

11 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Something to think about.

 

 

 

 

 

Socially distanced work environments, masks required (though not always enforced), hand sanitizing, no large groupings of employees in close proximity, etc. The lesson: We can be fully open if we are smart about it.   

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Socially distanced work environments, masks required (though not always enforced), hand sanitizing, no large groupings of employees in close proximity, etc. The lesson: We can be fully open if we are smart about it.   

Wrong! The lesson is there is no lesson. There’s no study showing that those large companies are THAT rigorously enforcing anything more than anyone else is. We still no very, very little about this virus and it’s transmission. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves. Social distancing? Sure, why not? That’s obvious, but beyond that....not much!

[BillStime]

 

[Magox]

25 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Sorry I haven't been here to check the work of the "data" put out by the Twitter mob. Looks like a bogus graphic or some seriously manipulated measurement.

 

The data from TMC (the largest Houston hospital system--one of the largest in the world), which has a lot of data online and was pretty easy to find, looks more like what reasonable people would expect. Bed usage did increase exponentially and it's now on its way down. Their website slices this data a lot of ways but no matter how you look at it, it tells the same story. 

 

 

Let's stop pretending this virus is a nothingburger at the same time we stop pretending it's the end of the world. 

 

 

 

How about you stop pretending to know what you're talking about?

 

All you do is parrot mainstream news, you lack any ability to critically think for yourself when it comes to COVID-19.  

[Taro T]

On 8/1/2020 at 8:35 PM, Doc Brown said:

The true test will be if Finland and Norway do eventually have a similar death rate per capita then the Swedish model would've been the most prudent.  If you look at the normal death rate in 2018 per 1,000 people Sweden (9.1) falls in between Norway (7.7) and Finland (9.9).  Right now they have five times the death rate of Denmark and ten times the death rate of Norway from Covid.  

 

Sorry for delay in posting this, just saw your post now.

 

Pretty sure that Sweden admits they should've done a better job protecting their elderly and they should've locked those high risk individuals down.  But they could've done that better while leaving the rest of the nation open.

 

Doubt those other countries end up at Sweden's death rate, but do expect they'll be far closer to it when all is said & done.

 

And expect that for future pandemics the Sweden model with some tweaks to better protectively quarantine the elderly will be the model to follow.

[Gary M]

12 hours ago, BillStime said:

We are doing very well

159,000 Dead Americans - great job Trump

 

 

 

 

Early estimates were 1.7 million dead, Trump saved 1.5 million people.

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/16/916661/coronavirus-covid-19-deaths-projections-united-states-italy/

FTA:

Worst-case scenarios from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say there could be 1.7 million deaths in the US, mostly among older people.

11 hours ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

You guys source from the most biased sites I've ever seen.

 

Argue the material not the source please!!!

[dubs]

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2020/august/03/europeans-are-waking-up-to-government-covid-tyranny-why-are-we-still-asleep/

 

 

11 hours ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

You guys source from the most biased sites I've ever seen.

there’s nothing more biased than The NY Times, Washington Post, CNN and the rest of the Ministry of Truth. 

[Tiberius]

35 minutes ago, dubs said:

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2020/august/03/europeans-are-waking-up-to-government-covid-tyranny-why-are-we-still-asleep/

 

 

there’s nothing more biased than The NY Times, Washington Post, CNN and the rest of the Ministry of Truth. 

? Ron Paul institute??? Ha ha ha! 

 

Do people sell sell you bottles of piss? I will, it’s good for you! ? 

[Gary M]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

? Ron Paul institute??? Ha ha ha! 

 

Do people sell sell you bottles of piss? I will, it’s good for you! ? 

 

You have no substantive argument. Arrogantly dismissing source to avoid any real discussion.

[Tiberius]

Just now, Gary M said:

 

You have no substantive argument. Arrogantly dismissing source to avoid any real discussion.

Ron Paul is a quack. If you are listening to him you are just being manipulated. 

[Gary M]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Ron Paul is a quack. If you are listening to him you are just being manipulated. 

 

That's your opinion.

 

You have no substantive argument. Arrogantly dismissing source to avoid any real discussion.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Gary M said:

 

That's your opinion.

 

You have no substantive argument. Arrogantly dismissing source to avoid any real discussion.

Just pointing out that the source is very unreliable. 

 

Hey, I really wish—oh just part of me—that Ron Paul people had their own country to go to that had almost no government. Good bye to them! They would live nasty, brutish and short lives. Their choice! 

[plenzmd1]

@BillStime, i saw that Axios interview and came away with two distinct impressions

 

1) Trump found it hard to pivot from his prepared talking point, no doubt. Scary, i agree

 

2) Trump should have jumped all over the "death rate as a percentage of population" thing...if we could get people to focus on that most of this hysteria of the virus would disappear. If as everyone believes we are handling the "crisis" worse than anyone out there, and after 6 months we the below calculation as the 'death rate"...wtf are we doing? S0      4/10ths of 1 percent.....and we have shut down the world...what in the hell are we doing? Do you think that is worth 10K kids dying a month of starvation? Millions of people losing their businesses and life savings? Kids losing substantial portions of youth experiences? This is insane

 

 

[GG]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Sorry I haven't been here to check the work of the "data" put out by the Twitter mob. Looks like a bogus graphic or some seriously manipulated measurement.

 

The data from TMC (the largest Houston hospital system--one of the largest in the world), which has a lot of data online and was pretty easy to find, looks more like what reasonable people would expect. Bed usage did increase exponentially and it's now on its way down. Their website slices this data a lot of ways but no matter how you look at it, it tells the same story. 

 

 

Let's stop pretending this virus is a nothingburger at the same time we stop pretending it's the end of the world. 

 

 

 

Speaking of manipulating the data ….

 

That's a scary looking graph, and the mayor would have been correct if he issued that warning in the beginning of June and not July.  There was NO significant spike two weeks after Turner went on the air in July.

 

Try harder.  

[shoshin]

4 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Speaking of manipulating the data ….

 

That's a scary looking graph, and the mayor would have been correct if he issued that warning in the beginning of June and not July.  There was NO significant spike two weeks after Turner went on the air in July.

 

Try harder.  

 

Did you read the statement by the mayor and look at the graph. On July 5, the mayor of Houston said "The number of people in our ICU beds has exponentially increased..." according to that Tweet.

 

On July 5, that was correct.

 

 

And...the graph that they guy tweeted was massively misleading. 

 

 

 

[Magox]

27 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

@BillStime, i saw that Axios interview and came away with two distinct impressions

 

1) Trump found it hard to pivot from his prepared talking point, no doubt. Scary, i agree

 

2) Trump should have jumped all over the "death rate as a percentage of population" thing...if we could get people to focus on that most of this hysteria of the virus would disappear. If as everyone believes we are handling the "crisis" worse than anyone out there, and after 6 months we the below calculation as the 'death rate"...wtf are we doing? S0      4/10ths of 1 percent.....and we have shut down the world...what in the hell are we doing? Do you think that is worth 10K kids dying a month of starvation? Millions of people losing their businesses and life savings? Kids losing substantial portions of youth experiences? This is insane

 

 

 

 

That's one of Trump's problems.  He doesn't get into the weeds, frankly he doesn't understand it.  He sees things from a very visceral point of view, he tends to have good instincts but when pressed to discuss in depth on a granular level, he's unable to do so.  Even though Cuomo made some horrendous decisions that actually cost people lives, he was able to at least pretend to show empathy and explain things on a very detailed level.  It provided comfort to people, it demonstrated that he at least appeared to know what he was talking about.

 

Trump on the other hand looked oafish, appeared to have no mastery of the underlying topic.  

 

And his answer on John Lewis showed pettiness.  Then when asked about the deaths he said "it is what it is".

 

Even though I agree with the sentiment in that the Virus is here and we have to do what we can, his answer showed no empathy.  I understand that people on this board are ok with that and frankly it doesn't personally bother me one bit.  But as someone who is rooting for him to win, I thought that interview highlighted a lot of his weaknesses.

 

What are we gonna do?  He is who he is.

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

How about you stop pretending to know what you're talking about?

 

All you do is parrot mainstream news, you lack any ability to critically think for yourself when it comes to COVID-19.  

 

I cited the actual hospital data to rebut some Twitter clown you quoted. I didn't cite CNN, the NY Times, or whatever "mainstream news" you're associating with my post. 

 

You attacked me personally for using the actual data. Is that what you want for PPP? To not cite and debate the actual source data? 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by shoshin

[GG]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Did you read the statement by the mayor and look at the graph. On July 5, the mayor of Houston said "The number of people in our ICU beds has exponentially increased..." according to that Tweet.

 

On July 5, that was correct.

 

 

And...the graph that they guy tweeted was massively misleading. 

 

 

 

 

The point was that as of July 5th, the scare story was that Houston is about to be overwhelmed, with the apocalypse coming within two weeks.  Showing the exponential rise from May is totally misleading, since the point of the criticism is that MSM doesn't go back to follow up on the initial fear porn stories.   Houston was not overwhelmed, and if you show a graph from July 5 to today, that graph will look like the one Magox linked.

[Magox]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The point was that as of July 5th, the scare story was that Houston is about to be overwhelmed, with the apocalypse coming within two weeks.  Showing the exponential rise from May is totally misleading, since the point of the criticism is that MSM doesn't go back to follow up on the initial fear porn stories.   Houston was not overwhelmed, and if you show a graph from July 5 to today, that graph will look like the one Magox linked.

 

Don't bother, he doesn't do nuance.  He parrots mainstream analysis.  

[dubs]

57 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

? Ron Paul institute??? Ha ha ha! 

 

Do people sell sell you bottles of piss? I will, it’s good for you! ? 

 

"Do people sell sell you...?"  What what the the heck heck does does that that mean mean?

 

You really have the cognitive ability of rock.  If you can point to anything Ron Paul wrote in that article and offer up a coherent argument against, then maybe someone will take you seriously.  Until then, you are just part of the hysterical clan of nitwits who can't articulate an argument and instead just post the Marxist propaganda of the day.

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The point was that as of July 5th, the scare story was that Houston is about to be overwhelmed, with the apocalypse coming within two weeks.  Showing the exponential rise from May is totally misleading, since the point of the criticism is that MSM doesn't go back to follow up on the initial fear porn stories.   Houston was not overwhelmed, and if you show a graph from July 5 to today, that graph will look like the one Magox linked.

 

"The scare story in Houston" ... on July 5, the Houston mayor had no idea where the peak would come. He just knew he was on an upwards exponential trajectory and he was rightly concerned at the time about that. Wouldn't you be concerned seeing your beds be taken at a rate like that? 

 

 "Showing the exponential rise from May is totally misleading, since the point of the criticism is that MSM doesn't go back to follow up on the initial fear porn stories" is a great point, but the Clown-Tweet was showing a graph claiming that there was more or less no rise, which was nonsense. 

 

"if you show a graph from July 5 to today" ... WTF kind of kooky logic is this? If I show a graph from yesterday to today, it's also flat. The impact of Covid is noticeable over a period of time, especially the time that includes the rise, and eventual decline. During the rise, there is a concern about resources and spread. Is that some kind of revelation? 

7 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Don't bother, he doesn't do nuance.  He parrots mainstream analysis.  

 

When I point out mistakes in your Twitter paste data, you get really upset but never get into a discussion of the data.

 

Why is that? 

[Magox]

From the panic porn article:

 

Headline:

 

Coronavirus on track to overwhelm Houston hospitals in two weeks, mayor says

Quote

 

Hospitals in Houston, Texas are on track to be overwhelmed in approximately two weeks as coronavirus cases mount, Mayor Sylvester Turner said on Sunday.

 

“The number of people who are getting sick and going to the hospitals has exponentially increased. The number of people in our ICU beds has exponentially increased,” Turner said on CBS’s “Face The Nation.” “In fact, if we don’t get our hands around this virus quickly, in about two weeks our hospital system could be in serious, serious trouble.”

 

 

 

Quote

 

Turner, a Democrat, said that the main problem facing Houston hospitals is staffing, not a shortage of beds.

“We can always provide additional beds, but we need the people, the nurses and everybody else, the medical professionals, to staff those beds. That’s the critical point right now,” Turner said. 

 

 

 

This is the very definition of Panic Porn.   Let's consider that A) He's a Democrat and B) This is NBC news.

 

Did they end up having shortages as he panicked to the media? 

 

No.

 

What did some of us say would end up happening?  That the virus was going to do what viruses do, spread until it burnt out?

 

That's exactly what it did.  With this virus, there shouldn't be a need to panic provided you protect the most vulnerable.

 

All these stories of PPE shortages, Ventilators, hospital beds, ICU's,  etc etc.  It's all panic.  They never bear out except in the media.  Everyone who needs a hospital bed or ICU or ventilator gets what they need.   

 

It's panic porn induced by Democrats and the media.  And you have a bunch of uninformed people who buy into what they are selling and parrot what they have without any ability to critically think for themselves.   

Edited August 4, 2020 by Magox

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, Magox said:

From the panic porn article:

 

Headline:

 

Coronavirus on track to overwhelm Houston hospitals in two weeks, mayor says

 

 

 

 

This is the very definition of Panic Porn.   Let's consider that A) He's a Democrat and B) This is NBC news.

 

Did they end up having shortages as he panicked to the media? 

 

No.

 

What did some of us say would end up happening?  That the virus was going to do what viruses do, spread until it burnt out?

 

That's exactly what it did.  With this virus, there shouldn't be a need to panic provided you protect the most vulnerable.

 

All these stories of PPE shortages, Ventilators, hospital beds, ICU's,  etc etc.  It's all panic.  They never bare out except in the media.  Everyone who needs a hospital bed or ICU or ventilator gets what they need.   

 

It's panic porn induced by Democrats and the media.  And you have a bunch of uninformed people who buy into what they are selling and parrot what they have without any ability to critically think for themselves.   

 

Obviously I agree that the panic porn is a problem and a huge one. You can't hear me say that because you get really upset when I point out errors and misleading statements in your Twitter-pastes, which I don't always do but you've been misleading a few times quoting data.

 

That's why I usually repeat the actual source data when I can and not the Twitter-takes. I shared the SETAC data originally, and that area of Texas managed their hosp capacity well, probably by shifting a lot of surgeries and other care to a later date. That's not great but it's what they had to do because their CV19 bed usage more than tripled in a period 6 weeks. There's no reason to think other places can't do that same. 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by shoshin

[WEATHER DOT COM]

"Panic porn" is the new "cancelled" 

 

Red herring

[Magox]

Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

"Panic porn" is the new "cancelled" 

 

Red herring

 

And you're just an idiot.

[Tiberius]

21 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

"Do people sell sell you...?"  What what the the heck heck does does that that mean mean?

 

You really have the cognitive ability of rock.  If you can point to anything Ron Paul wrote in that article and offer up a coherent argument against, then maybe someone will take you seriously.  Until then, you are just part of the hysterical clan of nitwits who can't articulate an argument and instead just post the Marxist propaganda of the day.

Ron Paul is a manipulating moron, period 

[shoshin]

3 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

"Panic porn" is the new "cancelled" 

 

Red herring

 

I disagree. Painting broadly between the parties, the left is really latched onto the panic and the right has a macho "it's no big deal" thing. Both are pretty moronic.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by shoshin

[dubs]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Ron Paul is a manipulating moron, period 

 

Good argument.  Brilliant.

 

 

[GG]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

"The scare story in Houston" ... on July 5, the Houston mayor had no idea where the peak would come. He just knew he was on an upwards exponential trajectory and he was rightly concerned at the time about that. Wouldn't you be concerned seeing your beds be taken at a rate like that? 

 

 "Showing the exponential rise from May is totally misleading, since the point of the criticism is that MSM doesn't go back to follow up on the initial fear porn stories" is a great point, but the Clown-Tweet was showing a graph claiming that there was more or less no rise, which was nonsense. 

 

"if you show a graph from July 5 to today" ... WTF kind of kooky logic is this? If I show a graph from yesterday to today, it's also flat. The impact of Covid is noticeable over a period of time, especially the time that includes the rise, and eventual decline. During the rise, there is a concern about resources and spread. Is that some kind of revelation? 

 

I get a sense that you're part of the clique that seems a bit upset when the doomsday scenarios don't play out, just because you worried about it.

 

You argue about data manipulation, yet show a graph from beginning of April to end of July.   Yet, the data from July is fully consistent with the graph.  You clearly didn't look at the actual data that was behind Magox's link.  You just looked at the graph and got upset that the 7-day average was a flatline in July.  The daily numbers showed modest spikes in hospitalizations, but the main point remains is that Houston managed the situation very well, and now is in a steady decline. 

 

Where are the follow up stories that show that the viral spread follows a predictable pattern, and people shouldn't be as scared as they were in early March? 

[B-Man]

CHANGE? 

 

U.S. sees fewer than 50,000 new COVID-19 cases for 2nd straight day. 

 

There’s some reason to think we’ve peaked, but stay tuned.

 

 

 

 

KAROL MARKOWICZ: All the COVID safety rules are little more than theater.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

And you're just an idiot.

 

You were right

 

On 7/13/2015 at 2:15 PM, Magox said:

Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator. The GOP has a bad brand as it is, then only worsens it.

 

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

I disagree. Painting broadly between the parties, the left is really latched onto the panic and the right has a macho "it's no big deal" thing. Both are pretty moronic.  

 

Who is actually panicking though?

 

Discussing the science and writing about it is not panicking, in my opinion.

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

I get a sense that you're part of the clique that seems a bit upset when the doomsday scenarios don't play out, just because you worried about it.

 

You argue about data manipulation, yet show a graph from beginning of April to end of July.   Yet, the data from July is fully consistent with the graph.  You clearly didn't look at the actual data that was behind Magox's link.  You just looked at the graph and got upset that the 7-day average was a flatline in July.  The daily numbers showed modest spikes in hospitalizations, but the main point remains is that Houston managed the situation very well, and now is in a steady decline. 

 

Where are the follow up stories that show that the viral spread follows a predictable pattern, and people shouldn't be as scared as they were in early March? 

 

Where have I been scared? I don't think we should have ever shut down except in NYC. I haven't stopped living. I want my kid in a school that's not all screwed up this fall. 

 

The graph was about bed availability...the mayor's quote was about exponentially rising cases. The data shown from SETAC was thus not the data being discussed in the Tweet. Also as we know, some hospitals hit capacity in Houston. But it's turning out "fine," just like it will elsewhere. "Fine" being a relative state. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Who is actually panicking though?

 

Discussing the science and writing about it is not panicking, in my opinion.

 

You can't be serious. The left is addicted to the panic around this in the same way the right thinks it's no big deal. 

 

 

[dubs]

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

I disagree. Painting broadly between the parties, the left is really latched onto the panic and the right has a macho "it'll all be fine" thing. Both are pretty moronic.  

 

I disagree with that assertion.  I believe that's what the MSM wants to paint the right as, but it's not true.

 

You are correct, the left has completely latched on to the following:

1) Complete submission of thought and actions

2) Forfeiture of any and all agency over oneself and their families and businesses

3) Hysteria

4) Panic

5) Government as savior

 

The right, on the other hand, is far more balanced in their approach.  A foundational principle of the right is that individuals are the most capable to take care of themselves and their loved ones.  In this case, modest precautions are accepted such as masks, hand washing, and other simple precautions.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by dubs

[WEATHER DOT COM]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

You can't be serious. The left is addicted to the panic around this in the same way the right thinks it's no big deal. 

 

Speaking for myself, and the liberals and I know, everyone has continued to live their lives free of panic. 

[shoshin]

Just now, dubs said:

 

I disagree with that assertion.  I believe that's what the MSM wants to paint the right as, but it's not true.

 

You are correct, the left has completely latched on to the following:

1) Complete submission of thought and actions

 

These kinds of assertions don't lead to any productive discussion. 

 

Just now, dubs said:

2) Forfeiture of any and all agency over oneself and their families and businesses

 

These kinds of assertions don't lead to any productive discussion. 

 

Just now, dubs said:

The right, on the other hand, is far more balanced in their approach.  A foundational principle of the right is that individuals and the most capable to take care of themselves and their loved ones.  In this case, modest precautions are accepted such as masks, hand washing, and other simple precautions.  

 

Uhh, have you been reading here? A very small minority of posters believe masks make any difference. 

Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Speaking for myself, and the liberals and I know, everyone has continued to live their lives free of panic. 

 

That's good. I am in the company of teachers lately for some reason and they are all freaking out. 

[Numark3]

Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Speaking for myself, and the liberals and I know, everyone has continued to live their lives free of panic. 

the right loves to say how scared and panicked the left is.

 

you know, the right.  The side that was scared of gay marriage, scared of Christmas being under attack, scared of gays in the military, scared of unisex bathrooms, scared of protestors, scared of wearing masks, scared of black people, scared that white people are under attack, scared that being a male is under attack.

 

 

i have never seen a bigger group of pussies than the far right in this country.  DR is running around terrified of Wayfair

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Good argument.  Brilliant.

 

 

Got another one for you, Kentucky sends the absolute worse Senators to Congress. Puck 

 

I wish you Paul people could get your own no government country. 

 

Name me one successful country that has tried his libertarian gargage. Just one 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

That's good. I am in the company of teachers lately for some reason and they are all freaking out. 

 

All teachers or just the liberal ones? 

[dubs]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

These kinds of assertions don't lead to any productive discussion. 

 

 

These kinds of assertions don't lead to any productive discussion. 

 

 

It's true.  It starts with the governors and the dems in congress and goes directly to the MSM.

 

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Crayola64 said:

the right loves to say how scared and panicked the left is.

 

you know, the right.  The side that was scared of gay marriage, scared of Christmas being under attack, scared of gays in the military, scared of unisex bathrooms, scared of protestors, scared of wearing masks, scared of black people, scared that white people are under attack, scared that being a male is under attack.

 

 

i have never seen a bigger group of pussies than the far right in this country.  DR is running around terrified of Wayfair

Scared of muslims, scared of health care, scared of democracy, scared of strong women, scared of facts, scared of information, scared of the truth...could write all day!