The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Kemp said:

Pretty funny. I acknowledge he might be lying and it's the only time I'm aware of an accusation against him.

 

Placing Covid patients back into nursing homes with healthy residents literally resulted in additional deaths.

 

Your response is to say you acknowledge Cuomo might be lying and then go right back to spewing your nonsense with CNN as the foundation for your credibility.

 

You are a one trick pony.

 

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't intend to hang in here, but I wandered over because I was paged so I'll weigh in here. This seems like a misunderstanding of how contact tracing works.  BECAUSE there are so many asymptomatic people, contact tracing is ABSOLUTELY critical with this disease.

 

It doesn't depend upon someone who is showing no symptoms requesting a test.

 

I have symptoms.  I get a test.  It's positive.  I have covid-19.  I work in a plant where I have close contact with you and 200 other people on my shift.  I take a bus home.  All those people get tested.  Let's say you're one of them, you're positive, and you have no symptoms at this point.  Now we want to trace your contacts and test them.

 

In industries where people have to work shoulder to shoulder, yes, contact tracing is gonna be a bear.   A kodiak bear. This is where social distancing continues to be important - obviously, if someone can work from home, or works in a workspace where people are able to be spaced 6 feet apart, have good ventilation, and don't share common equipment, the infection rates may be lower and the contact tracing is only a crabby raccoon, not a kodiak bear.

 

Everyone "masking up" is also going to be critical, so that while contact tracing is ongoing, asymptomatic people aren't out bopping around don't unknowingly infect others

 

Peace out

 

 

My end goal is getting to a basic reproduction number that doesn't overwhelm the healthcare system.  No bueno to HCW or to patients.

 

You?

 

 

 

Except that in most areas where antibody tests are ongoing, the finding is 2-6% of the population has anti-covid-19 antibodies.

Herd immunity requires 50-60%.  So the "incentive to open things up" is a little opaque to me here.

 

1st off, thanks for all the info.  It has been very helpful.

 

2 questions, if you'd be so kind.  How do we get to herd immunity levels in any time frame significantly less than a full year+ if we continue to self quarrantine if with self quarantining for close to 2 months we're still around only 5% of the population having been exposed to this (2-6% testing positive for antibodies)?  Do we not allow "non-essential" workers back to work before herd immunity is reached?

[Tiberius]

12 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

Who said he was a genius of any kind?

Now this cold has put in charge of finding a vaccine. God help us all 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kushner-botched-the-covid-response-now-trumps-tapped-him-to-get-a-vaccine-by-the-end-of-2020

 

 

Already under fire for his role atop a shadow task force aiding the administration’s response to the coronavirus, senior White House aide Jared Kushner is now being handed another critical job: helping get a vaccine for the disease developed in record time. 

President Donald Trump, who has said he believes a COVID-19 vaccine will be available by the end of the year, is turning to his son-in-law to help streamline the effort, branded, “Operation Warp Speed.” Kushner is working alongside White House senior adviser Peter Navarro, who pitched the operation via memo to the president’s coronavirus task force as early as this February.

[billsfan1959]

23 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Name one time any Trump supporter here has once acknowledged Trump had lied, even though there are multiple confirmed lies by him in regards to the virus.

 

Why aren't you outraged by this?

 

I will try to explain the difference.

 

I have not gone on and on blaming anyone regarding the coronavirus. I happen to believe there will be plenty of time when this is all over to assess the good, the bad, and everything in between. I am not outraged by any of it. My stance has always been that people in power, here and around the world, reacted how they did and when they did according to the information available to them at the time.

 

Do I wish we would have been more prepared and reacted sooner? Of course. I can entertain that thought and, at the same time, believe Trump and others acted when and how they reasonably could have been expected to based on available information. Those are not mutually exclusive views. I didn't get outraged over Trump's statements minimizing the virus any more than I got outraged over leaders like Cuomo, De Blasio, Pelosi, and others minimizing the virus in late February and March. They all were acting in accordance with the information being disseminated at the time. So, I have been entirely consistent.

 

You, on the other hand, have been on a crusade to find blame, and only with Trump. You have been outraged over everything he has said and done and there are pages of your posts to prove it. Yet, you have never gone on, post after post, calling out Cuomo, De Blasio, Pelosi, etc. for the very same things. So, you have not been consistent.

 

That is why you are being hypocritical and I am not.

[Kemp]

18 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Placing Covid patients back into nursing homes with healthy residents literally resulted in additional deaths.

 

Your response is to say you acknowledge Cuomo might be lying and then go right back to spewing your nonsense with CNN as the foundation for your credibility.

 

You are a one trick pony.

 

 

You clearly exposed my hypocrisy when you dismissed an indisputable lie of Trump that may very well have caused more American deaths than has occurred in nursing homes in NY.

 

You don't like the source, yet you can't come up with anything that disputes it, which should be incredibly easy to provide, since you believe everything from them is a lie, so why can't you?

 

You can't claim you're too busy. We know you have access to the Internet, so the ability to refute my facts are at your fingertips. Yet, somehow you can't. How weak is that?

 

You're no different than the biggest idiots here, who when boxed into a corner scream Commie.

 

Prove me wrong that Trump didn't lie about people coming into America.

 

All Trump supporters are too scared to address facts when they interfere with their beliefs. 

 

But I'm the hypocrite.

 

Since we both know that you can't prove what I wrote is wrong, you are only left with changing the topic or tossing out an insult.

 

Perhaps, the funniest part is this is only one of thousands of lies Trump has told that we could go through, and every single time you would be left with the same non-defense.

 

How pathetic is that.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Kemp said:

But I'm the hypocrite.

How pathetic is that.

 

Finally, something we can agree on. 

[meazza]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think you all guys need a little "sexy cyborg" in here

 

Personally I think if our leaders give a clear and unambiguous message, people will do the right thing.  We saw that in the huge mobilization efforts around the World Wars.  We saw behavior change around seatbelts when massive public service campaigns were joined to legal penalties.  It's silly to say just many "won't wear masks"  - of course, when they see our President and VP/Task Force Leader not wearing masks, and when Missouri Governor says "it's a personal choice, I chose to not wear a mask", OF COURSE people won't wear masks.  But we could do the experiment.

I leave you with Better Hand Washing, courtesy of Naomi Wu

 

Jesus. Sorry i forgot what we were all talking about.

[Kemp]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

Finally, something we can agree on. 

 

As I just wrote how you would be forced to respond. Can't refute facts. Forced into a non-witticism.

 

As pathetic as usual.

 

Why are you so scared to address it? We both know why. Liars always have to dodge truth.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Kemp said:

 

As I just wrote how you would be forced to respond. Can't refute facts. Forced into a non-witticism.

 

As pathetic as usual.

 

Why are you so scared to address it? We both know why. Liars always have to dodge truth.

 

[LB3]

Every time I see people arguing about how much we should let science determine how quickly and freely we let people get back to their normal lives, it reminds me of this scene. "Science is a liar...sometimes"?

(Note: This is for levity. I'm not saying science shouldn't be a consideration in determining how quickly the country opens up. Also NSFW - language.)

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by LB3

[Kemp]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

And still you can't refute Trump’s lie.

 

What are you so afraid of?

[Tiberius]

A cover up of scientific information. 

 

 

A set of detailed documents created by the nation's top disease investigators meant to give step-by-step advice to local leaders deciding when and how to reopen public places such as mass transit, day care centers and restaurants during the still-raging pandemic has been shelved by the Trump administration. 

The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen. 

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.

 

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/health/trump-admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country-official-says/2387759/

[Troll Toll]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

 

Pretty funny. I acknowledge he might be lying and it's the only time I'm aware of an accusation against him.

 

Name one time any Trump supporter here has once acknowledged Trump had lied, even though there are multiple confirmed lies by him in regards to the virus.

 

Why aren't you outraged by this?

 

When: Thursday, March 12
The claim: All U.S. citizens arriving from Europe would be subject to medical screening, COVID-19 testing, and quarantine if necessary. “If an American is coming back or anybody is coming back, we’re testing,” Trump said. “We have a tremendous testing setup where people coming in have to be tested … We’re not putting them on planes if it shows positive, but if they do come here, we’re quarantining.”
The truth: Testing is already severely limited in the United States. It is not true that all Americans returning to the country are being tested, nor that anyone is being forced to quarantine, CNN has reported.

Wasn’t March 12 the day he instituted the European travel ban? The same ban that saved countless lives and was OPPOSED by the left?

[Kemp]

Just now, Troll Toll said:

Wasn’t March 12 the day he instituted the European travel ban? The same ban that saved countless lives and was OPPOSED by the left?

 

Did Trump do what he claimed in the post?

 

The only possible answers are yes he did or no he didn't. 

[Magox]

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for not wearing masks.  I'm indifferent about it similar to how Fauci feels on the subject.   Our family wears it simply out of respect for others because really it's not skin off our backs to do so, just a slight inconvenience. 

 

The point is that if anyone actually believes that US citizens will have anywhere near the compliance of wearing masks, allowing cell phone tracking and other extended draconian mitigation efforts as say a Taiwan or South Korea, truly does not have a pulse of many of our citizens.  

 

The point was derailed though, that was just an added sidebar.  The main reason why contact tracing won't work here in the sense that it will be THE solution to crush the curve is for one main reason.  It's too late for that.  There are over 975,000 confirmed cases which probably means there are anywhere from about 6 to 20 million actual confirmed cases.  Each and every day at this stage of the cycle we are adding on top of that about 25k new confirmed cases daily which in actuality is probably around 250k real cases daily.   We don't know who the asymptomatic cases are.  Contact tracing on a wide scale only works either at the beginning of an outbreak before it gets out of control or after nearly all the cases have been flushed out so that you are working off of a low base line.  

 

Unless someone can convince me that we can get the confirmed cases on a daily basis to be nearly extinguished then color me skeptical.

[Kemp]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

A cover up of scientific information. 

 

 

A set of detailed documents created by the nation's top disease investigators meant to give step-by-step advice to local leaders deciding when and how to reopen public places such as mass transit, day care centers and restaurants during the still-raging pandemic has been shelved by the Trump administration. 

The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen. 

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.

 

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/health/trump-admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country-official-says/2387759/

 

Truth is Trump’s enemy.

[BuffaloHokie13]

54 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Name one time any Trump supporter here has once acknowledged Trump had lied, even though there are multiple confirmed lies by him in regards to the virus.

Has he done any single thing right since taking office? The constant negative spin on every action he takes is why you get the responses you do. Trump absolutely lies. The items that you tend to bring to the table typically are terrible examples of his lies because they are fact checking liberal interpretations of his statements rather than his actual statement and intent. Or they're partial statements rather than full quotes. Or they aren't lies at all, but you're applying your hindsight to statements made in real time. 

 

I think the first point is the crux of the issue though. You have one side of politics that quite frankly doesn't understand the other side, but they want to ascribe motive on their own.

 

Here's a couple links on it, if you're so inclined. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/21/democrats-republicans-political-beliefs-national-survey-poll

https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-passages/haidt/conservatives-understand-liberals-better-than-liberals-understand-conservatives/

[Magox]

Can we just discuss the virus in this thread?    There are so many other threads for people to discuss Trump.     

[Kemp]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Has he done any single thing right since taking office? The constant negative spin on every action he takes is why you get the responses you do. Trump absolutely lies. The items that you tend to bring to the table typically are terrible examples of his lies because they are fact checking liberal interpretations of his statements rather than his actual statement and intent. Or they're partial statements rather than full quotes. Or they aren't lies at all, but you're applying your hindsight to statements made in real time. 

 

I think the first point is the crux of the issue though. You have one side of politics that quite frankly doesn't understand the other side, but they want to ascribe motive on their own.

 

Here's a couple links on it, if you're so inclined. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/21/democrats-republicans-political-beliefs-national-survey-poll

https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-passages/haidt/conservatives-understand-liberals-better-than-liberals-understand-conservatives/

 

One more non-answer.

 

I am fine discussing anything if you can first address whether Trump lied or not as to what I posted. It's a simple solution to go on to other topics.

[LB3]

2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Did Trump do what he claimed in the post?

 

The only possible answers are yes he did or no he didn't. 

"If you like your health care plan, you can keep it." Presidents make statements that don't bear out all the time. You just don't care when it's a D doing it.

 

Related question. How many fainting couches does President Trump make you go through weekly?