The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Cinga]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

I hope not. Anybody have an answer to this?  When things clear up my first planned trip is a visit to my family in WNY. I don’t want to live in squalor like those poor poor people. 
 

Maybe it’s transmitted like Coronavirus? 

Careful, last time I went home I ended up broke.... Left again to make money

[RochesterRob]

31 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Maybe you're right about that.  But let's not pass the buck here.  

 

There's a principle in the law that there can be more than one proximate cause of an accident or event.  Even assuming (probably very safely), for the sake of argument, the the Chinese government bears responsibility for part of this mess, I struggle to see how it's unfair to say that the ineptitude of our own federal administration has not also contributed to the current predicament.  

 

Bottom line: fault here isn't an either or proposition.  Surely the Chinese government bears responsibility for what has happened.  But the fact that one government or one actor bears responsibility doesn't mean that another actor cannot also be culpable. 

  So can somebody who legally resides in NY sue Cuomo for damages for an irresponsible shutdown that cost the plaintiff his means to support himself?  Since I have no qualms with the federal government to this point we have nothing to discuss there.  I'm thinking that if Obama or Hillary were in the WH the response would have been similar.  In the case of those two they are much better speakers than Trump but that does not make them more intellectually capable.  

[Chef Jim]

9 minutes ago, Cinga said:

Careful, last time I went home I ended up broke.... Left again to make money

Anyone else have these stories?

 

Now that you mentioned when I came back broke but I heard the local bar added a new dining room. ?

[Koko78]

14 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I hope not. Anybody have an answer to this?  When things clear up my first planned trip is a visit to my family in WNY. I don’t want to live in squalor like those poor poor people. 
 

Maybe it’s transmitted like Coronavirus? 

 

Just stay in the 585 portion of WNY, you'll be fine.

[meazza]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Anyone else have these stories?

 

Now that you mentioned when I came back broke but I heard the local bar added a new dining room. ?

 

I went to Buffalo once to watch a football game and lost my wallet.  Does that count?  

[Chef Jim]

Just now, Koko78 said:

 

Just stay in the 585 portion of WNY, you'll be fine.

Oh yeah whew. That’s where I go. I rarely make it to the 716. Last time I did I snapped this picture. 
 

 

Just now, meazza said:

 

I went to Buffalo once to watch a football game and lost my wallet.  Does that count?  

I think it does. @BillStime Little help here. 

[Koko78]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Oh yeah whew. That’s where I go. I rarely make it to the 716. Last time I did I snapped this picture. 
 

 

 

Tell me about it. When I lived in the 716, we were so poor, we were reduced to eating Irish babies.

[meazza]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Oh yeah whew. That’s where I go. I rarely make it to the 716. Last time I did I snapped this picture. 
 

 

 

Those children don't look productive at all.

[Chef Jim]

Just now, Koko78 said:

 

Tell me about it. When I lived in the 716, we were so poor, we were reduced to eating Irish babies.

Yeah. When I lived there my dad had to buy a restaurant just so we could eat. Actually he was so poor he stole the restaurant.  

[meazza]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Yeah. When I lived there my dad had to buy a restaurant just so we could eat. Actually he was so poor he stole the restaurant.  

 

Was he the guy in the founder?

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Oh yeah whew. That’s where I go. I rarely make it to the 716. Last time I did I snapped this picture. 
 

 

I think it does. @BillStime Little help here. 

 

Hey! Where did you get my family photo?

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Yeah. When I lived there my dad had to buy a restaurant just so we could eat. Actually he was so poor he stole the restaurant.  

  "I don't know how to make a restaurant" : Paulie Cicero.

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  "I don't know how to make a restaurant" : Paulie Cicero.

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  So can somebody who legally resides in NY sue Cuomo for damages for an irresponsible shutdown that cost the plaintiff his means to support himself?  Since I have no qualms with the federal government to this point we have nothing to discuss there.  I'm thinking that if Obama or Hillary were in the WH the response would have been similar.  In the case of those two they are much better speakers than Trump but that does not make them more intellectually capable.  

Mitch was saying something yesterday (again) about shielding businesses who reopen from liability. I wonder if a state already has that shield when it is part of a national disaster declaration?

[BillStime]

50 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

If it were up to me I'd blame all those poor people in the 716.  

Are you going to share your report on the fastest growing part of America? The 716?
 

And other than GeeGee - notice most aren’t touching this or backing you up?

 

 

 

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Mitch was saying something yesterday (again) about shielding businesses who reopen from liability. I wonder if a state already has that shield when it is part of a national disaster declaration?

  In general I would say yes.  I was trying to jerk the chain of our resident 3rd chair.  But our legal system is based on precedents so maybe somebody could mount a legal challenge

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  In general I would say yes.  I was trying to jerk the chain of our resident 3rd chair.  But our legal system is based on precedents so maybe somebody could mount a legal challenge

I did not notice, I am sorry. I have that user account on ignore.

 

[3rdnlng]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  In general I would say yes.  I was trying to jerk the chain of our resident 3rd chair.  But our legal system is based on precedents so maybe somebody could mount a legal challenge

3rd Chair has changed his screen name and now has become List Maker.

[GG]

7 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Are you going to share your report on the fastest growing part of America? The 716?
 

And other than GeeGee - notice most aren’t touching this or backing you up?

 

 

 

That's not how this works.  But you know that.

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Are you going to share your report on the fastest growing part of America? The 716?
 

And other than GeeGee - notice most aren’t touching this or backing you up?

 

 

 

Huh?  Fastest growing part of America report?  What are you talking about? 
 

I don’t need anyone to back me up. I would like you to show the data you used to come to the conclusion that the 716 is one of the poorest areas in America.  I showed my cards. Show yours. 

[SectionC3]

34 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  So can somebody who legally resides in NY sue Cuomo for damages for an irresponsible shutdown that cost the plaintiff his means to support himself?  Since I have no qualms with the federal government to this point we have nothing to discuss there.  I'm thinking that if Obama or Hillary were in the WH the response would have been similar.  In the case of those two they are much better speakers than Trump but that does not make them more intellectually capable.  

 

You can sue anyone you want for whatever you want.  The big issue is whether you can win the lawsuit. (And, of course, don't conflate "culpable" with "liable.") 

 

The thumbnail sketch is that in his instance you would lose because the state acted in a governmental capacity, not a proprietary capacity, and you would need to show that the state owed you a special duty of care.  Here that's not happening.  So if you want to sue, go nuts.  Just don't harbor any delusion that you might actually win. 

15 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

3rd Chair has changed his screen name and now has become List Maker.

 

Third and very short is back.  Good to see you! 

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I did not notice, I am sorry. I have that user account on ignore.

 

 

I guess she doesn't like it when someone exposes her hoaxes.  Sad!

Edited April 29, 2020 by SectionC3

[Buffalo_Gal]

On now

Trump:
Started by mentioning who is at the round table
If it flairs up in the fall, we will get right on it.
Praising Pence.
Praising the supplies and equipment that have been produced. Order for 500M masks, delivered 10s of millions.
Testing - see some astonishing numbers.
Again, some love the tests, some do not.
Encouraged the 30 states that have taken steps to resume economic activities. Naming who submitted their plans.
Talked to Cuomo (on a different subject), but he wants to get open.


 

Pence:
Thanking everyone who is there, plus their employees.
Before coronavirus came ashore we has seen enormous growth in the economy.
When the task force was set up in January, the mission was to save lives.
Light at the end of the tunnel. Encouraged by the progress, even among the hot spots.
Slow the spread, embraced the guidelines.
As we come to the end...
Testing will be a part of how we move to the next stage.
35 states have released formal opening plans.
We will continue to scale testings.
5.8M tests have been done, 1M a week now.
Looking for 2M per week next month. (Blueprint for testing plan)




 

Trump:
Puritan Medical Supplies with produce XX swabs per month (missed the number).
 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Hilton guy (Christopher J. Nassetta):

In the middle of the crisis along with AmEx we provided 1M rooms free of charge to the first responders. (Some are still being used)
Partnership with Lysol and Mayo Clinic developed the best protocols for being cleaned and sealed.
The whole industry is working on a set of standards (which will be shared with the administration)

Mnuchin:
Met with small businesses.
Public companies can access liquidity without the government.
 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

2 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Would ya (while she was living, she of Rochester, NY and WWE fame)?  Hopefully, she is now at peace after a tough life.  

Oh hell yeah!

[Buffalo_Gal]

Waffle House Guy (Walt Ehmer):
In Tennessee and Georgia some dining rooms were open to customers.
Followed CDC/Administration guidelines.
Reopening safely was top priority
Thanking Trump for the direct stimulus to people.
Restaurants are second largest private industry in the US (health care is #1).
The industry has been practicing safe food handling, and they are upping that more.
They are setting at half seating capacity.

 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

Sugar Nips is letting nursing home staff who test positive for the Wuhan Flu but are asymptomatic back to work in the home. 

 

I would have to imagine all these problems with the nursing homes is going to catch up to him eventually...

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/ny-state-let-coronavirus-infected-nurses-work-in-nursing-home/

[Buffalo_Gal]

Toyota guy (Chris Reynolds):

March 18, closed, March 19, started plans to reopen.
1.2M units of trucks.
32K factory workers
400K+ people employed
Safety Return:
* 100+ safety protocols
* 88 page Safe and Healthy workplace (daily temp screening!)
* Best practices for the CDC and around the world.
* Not date driven, data driven.
Plan to reopen May 11th, but flexible. They will have staggered shifts.
Manufactured 500K face shields that were distributed.

Trump: What is Toyota doing in Japan?
Reynolds: Plant by plant, some are operating, some not. (varies)




 

Wynn guy (Matthew Maddox)

Las Vegas does not have enough people to test! So, he volunteered all their employees to be tested.
Wynn is paying all 15,000 of their employees
23 page plan to lay out a LV strip opening.

Trump: When will Vegas reopen?
Wynn: His plan suggests next week.
Then he has a 3 week plan to fully reopen.
 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Business Round Table guy (Josh Bolton):

He represents a lotta people! (Millions and millions)
Now is critical that the country gets back to work asap. Both for the economy, and for the people of the country.
Successful reopening
* Safety first - Responsible plans for responsibly returning to work.
* Consistent guidelines - we all need to be doing clear, science based guidelines. He said the WH guidelines are a great start. The states have good safety measures outlined. He wants more specific guidelines. Sent to the VP and all the Governors last Friday what they want for the safest reopening. He's praising the task force.
* Ample testing and monitoring. He doesn't want a revered economy. Wants tracking and monitoring.


 

Larry Kudlow:
Like what I hear around the table. The contraction will continue a bit.
Growing and expanding economy by summer.

Kevin Hassett:
Optimistic on how fast the economy can come back.
Because of the lifeline of the 3 phases of fiscal policy.

 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

Police Investigating Death of Arizona Man From Chloroquine Phosphate

Mesa City PD opens investigation into death of Gary Lenius whose wife, Wanda, said she served him a deadly cocktail to ward off coronavirus

 

News of the police probe comes after a series of Free Beacon stories raised questions about the portrayal of the couple in the initial NBC News report that vaulted the story onto the national stage.

Though that report and others suggested the couple mindlessly followed the president's medical advice to disastrous results, friends of Gary Lenius told the Free Beacon they were skeptical he would knowingly ingest fish tank treatment.

Rather, they described Lenius as a levelheaded retired engineer and recounted a troubled marital relationship that included a previous domestic assault charge against his wife, of which she was ultimately found not guilty. The Free Beacon also reported that Wanda Lenius was a Democratic donor whose most recent contribution went to a "pro-science" super PAC.

"What bothers me about this is that Gary was a very intelligent man, a retired [mechanical] engineer who designed systems for John Deere in Waterloo, Iowa, and I really can't see the scenario where Gary would say, ‘Yes, please, I would love to drink some of that Koi fish tank cleaner,'" one of his close friends told the Free Beacon. "It just doesn't make any sense."

 

Another source, who asked that all identifying information be withheld, told the Free Beacon earlier this month that Wanda Lenius "would constantly berate Gary in public.… Everyone was embarrassed for him, but he outwardly did not seem to care much."

"In our opinion, their marriage was seen outwardly to be as one-sided as a marriage possibly could be: Gary worshiped Wanda," this person said, adding that his wife "would routinely call him a doofus" and humiliate him in public.

Wanda Lenius was charged with domestic abuse assault in 2001 after she allegedly hit her husband and swung a mounted birdhouse at him. Gary Lenius declined to cooperate in the case, testifying that he was not injured or placed in fear of injury. His wife was exonerated.

Wanda Lenius said in a phone interview with the Free Beacon last month that she and her husband had watched the president tout the virtues of chloroquine on the news, citing preliminary studies that showed it may be a promising treatment for coronavirus.

She remembered purchasing a container of "chloroquine phosphate" years before to clean a fish tank, she said.

The powder, which can be lethal if ingested, is sold by aquarium suppliers and used to treat viral outbreaks in large fish tanks. She told the Free Beacon that she had mentioned this to her husband "and he kind of laughed at me, you know. It was just a regular conversation."

"We weren't big supporters of [Trump], but we did see that they were using it in China and stuff," she said. "And we just made a horrible, tragic mistake."

Campaign finance records show that Wanda Lenius has given thousands of dollars to Democratic groups and candidates over the past two years, most recently to the 314 Action Fund. The group bills itself as the "pro-science resistance" and has criticized the Trump administration's response to the coronavirus pandemic, holding up the Lenius case to slam the White House.

In the same interview, Wanda Lenius told the Free Beacon that her husband had been planning to schedule a doctor's appointment to have a leg injury looked at and the couple worried he might pick up coronavirus at the clinic. That's when, she said, she reached for the fish tank cleaner in her pantry. Her husband's response, she said, was, "Is it still good?"

Wanda Lenius routinely prepared a "vitamin cocktail" for him, according to Gary Lenius's friend.

Asked if she and Gary Lenius had a conversation about taking the chloroquine at that time, she told the Free Beacon: "No. I mean, it was really kind of a spur of the moment thing," adding that the couple ingested "one teaspoon and some soda" each, at least four times the lethal limit.

 

Homicide investigations are routine in the event of any death in any jurisdiction, but this just smells fishy to me, no pun intended.

 

Link to article below.

 

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/

[Buffalo_Gal]

Eugene Scalia (Sec of Labor):

All 50 states + DC are offering the $600 in additional unemployment money
Worked with the states on their unemployment computers.
Will continue to work with companies on safety concerns. They will enforce workers rights.
Lower taxes + deregulation was why the economy was on fire. Free market plug!

 

[B-Man]

 

THAT WAS FAST: The inevitable Bill de Blasio as Hitler melting down in Downfall video is now online. Click here to watch on Twitter:

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Press: Americans will not go back to restaurants because they will not feel safe (polls)
Hilton guy: We've seen the polls, but we also know people want to get out. What he is hearing that people want out. They want to know people are being responsible and following protocols. Making sure that when they stay at a hotel, they feel safe.
Trump: I think there is pent-up demand to get out, which includes restaurants and hotels.  "Only time will tell."


 

Press: Remdesivir emergency use from FDA?
Trump: It is a building block (Fauci said). Big building block. Yes, he wants them to go as fast as they can, but safely.

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Press: What might new normal look like?
Trump: We want to go back where normal was three months ago. (He's been consistent on this.)
Could have been stopped at point of origin. We were not helped by WHO or China. Very sad event.
Not if people like our opponents come in and start to raise taxes. That won't work.
Yapping about stock market. (I wish he'd lay off the stock market, shesh)

Press: Are you open to making a deal with the PO without it raising its package rates?
Trump: You have to raise the package rates.  You cannot continue to lose money on each package. You cannot replicate the post office. We want to stabilize the post office. The companies are going to have to pay a percentage of that loss. Wouldn't it be great if the PO could break even?
Mnuchin: Board of governors are overseeing it. The people at the PO will have a terrific opportunity.
Trump: We don't it want to be stupidly run.
You are hurting retailers when you are subsidizing online companies (paraphrased)

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[MILFHUNTER#518]

10 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

THAT WAS FAST: The inevitable Bill de Blasio as Hitler melting down in Downfall video is now online. Click here to watch on Twitter:

 

 

 

Tweet. Of. The. Month.?

[Buffalo_Gal]

Press: Will you try to restrict aid to sanctuary cities?
Trump: I don't think they should have sanctuary cities.
People don't like sanctuary cities, the politicians like them.
People want borders.
The wall is up to 175 miles build.
But, we want our farmers to get help, and it is easier those people to come in (have come for years and years).

Press: Explicitly will you seek to avoid the next round to go to sanctuary cities and states.
Trump: We should not be helping sanctuary cities or states.
We want a safe country, not protecting the criminals.
It will discussed.

 

Press: When would you like the country reopened?
Trump: Safety, but people want it open. There is a danger to home and apartment confinement.
Lot of pressure on governors to reopen.
We have learned a lot of this hidden enemy.
We will put out hot spots quickly.
Talking about the small business meeting yesterday.

Press: Target date?
Trump: Well yeah, as soon as possible. 
Went on about the states reopening.
Happy talk about the virus being gone.

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Press: 100% open if this before or after vaccine?
Trump: Progress is being made. But look at SARS, no vaccine.
Looking for vaccines and therapeutics, we are farther along

Not relying on the vaccine for 100%.
Testing needs to happen. Maybe it eradicates, but it isn't safe.
A vaccine would be a great thing. I think we are going to get there.

 

Press: Why do you think the virus will be gone without a vaccine?
Trump: It will be gone. (Happy talk) We know how to put it out if we get a hot spot. Back on to the ventilators (thank goodness I don't drink every time he says ventilators at a presser, I'd be on the floor. ? )

[Buffalo_Gal]

Press: Oil is up?
Trump: What is it up to?
Press: $25.  (laughter) Is it up on a government plan?

Trump: We are not letting our oil industry go under.
We saved the airlines.
We are saving other companies and industries.

Mnuchin:
Looking at a lot of things
National security issue
They got paid for the storage capacity in the reserve
They are looking to store 100M more barrels.

Trump: We made a great deal to fill the Federal Reserve. This was incredible. We are storing in some cases, and getting paid to store oil.

Press: Timeline for oil plan?
Trump: Shortly. The big companies are strong. Mentioning Texas, OK, LA, ND ... energy, not just oil.
Green cannot power these huge companies.
We are energy independent, we are not going to let our energy industry down.
Talking about the food chain and what they did last night. Not money moves, but common sense moves. We out out a fire (burning embers)

Press: When are you getting out of the WH?
Trump: Arizona next week (industry), then Ohio.
He's talking about rallies, and hoping people are sitting next to each other.
Too soon for a rally, depends on  the state.
Spoke to Cuomo today, NYC has been hit hard but they are on the other side of the curve. Lots of positive side.

Press: Will you be holding rallies before the election?
Trump: I hope so.




 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Press: Isn't it going away because people are staying home?
Trump: If you stay in your home, you are not catching it. People want to get out.
Back to the... if we didn't do what we did, a million people would have died... one is too many, etc.
How incredible the American people have been. They did what they had to do.

Thanks the people at the round table.

Note: The press was MUCH better behaved at this round table than in the White House press room.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Press: 100% open if this before or after vaccine?
Trump: Progress is being made. But look at SARS, no vaccine.
Looking for vaccines and therapeutics, we are farther along

Not relying on the vaccine for 100%.
Testing needs to happen. Maybe it eradicates, but it isn't safe.
A vaccine would be a great thing. I think we are going to get there.

 

Press: Why do you think the virus will be gone without a vaccine?
Trump: It will be gone. (Happy talk) We know how to put it out if we get a hot spot. Back on to the ventilators (thank goodness I don't drink every time he says ventilators at a presser, I'd be on the floor. ? )

....you need a PhD to digest the information being propulgated.....studies galore with hugely varying sample sizes......conclusions published BEFORE a nominal peer review......if, IF I read correctly, CARES funding through Medicare pays hospitals $39,000 for Covid-19 related deaths versus $13,000.....how does THAT skew the death numerator?......at the same time with testing dramatically increasing, isn't is possible for asympomatics to exponentially increase the denominator?.....if so, the mortality rate rapidly diminishes......BUT...at the same time, does the country's reactive measures become the "Cry Wolf Syndrome"?.....Fauci says their could be two prong implications with the "normal" flu season being joined by the "Covid-19 season"....clear as mud IMO.....

[BillStime]

30 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Huh?  Fastest growing part of America report?  What are you talking about? 
 

I don’t need anyone to back me up. I would like you to show the data you used to come to the conclusion that the 716 is one of the poorest areas in America.  I showed my cards. Show yours. 

 

You showed your cards? Where - you haven't backed up anything.  And I am not happy or proud that Buffalo Niagara ranks as one of the poorest regions in America 

 

REPORT: Buffalo-Niagara region ranks low in recent study

 

Census: Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester among nation's poorest cities (database)

 

The cities hit hardest by extreme poverty - Buffalo-Cheektowaga-Niagara Falls, NY ---> Number 8 on the list.

 

Top Ten Cities (250,000 or more population) with the Highest Poverty Rate - Buffalo comes in at number 2

 

Why isn't Buffalo growing?

 

Drive around Buffalo Niagara - you see more areas in distress than you see cranes and a booming economy.

 

You don't need the links above to highlight the clear lack of economic development, population growth, aging population, high paying jobs, lack of talent, bombed out parking lots on numerous corners in our Central Business District; and empty plazas and malls across the region to see how the region is doing. 

 

We literally have to incentivize nearly ALL the private investment in Buffalo Niagara. Yeah, thank god for the Pegula's and Douglas Jemal... but Buffalo Niagara has a long way to go to get off the poverty lists.