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DrDawkinstein

Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

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2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB?  :lol:

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?


point whizzed right by you and you were too stubborn to realize it 

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1 minute ago, Chaos said:

I want to clear this up for people.  Doug Whaley was not  competent as a GM. Try to remember this.  Thank you for cooperation. 

Very good Scout but could not work together in a group or lead an organization.  I think Beane and McDermott have shown what can be accomplished if the entire organisation pulls in the same direction.

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20 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

You really don't know what youre talking about huh.

 

Way to contribute.

 

I've said I like Sammy. When all is said and done he should have a lot of money and a decent career to look back on. Why are you so defensive about him being a #1? It has been years since he's shown you that ability, just let it go.

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3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Jerry Hughes.

Buddy trade.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/04/29/bills-trade-lb-kelvin-sheppard-colts-lb-jerry-hughes

 

"Versatility is something we're looking for. We want our linebackers to be able to at least play both outside spots," Bills general manager Buddy Nix said. "We think this will give him an opportunity to do what he does best."

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good for Sammy!

Rooted for him when he was a Bill and have no ill will towards him when he left.

I don’t blame the Bills for trading him away when they did. I think the Bills got a fair deal.

i hope Sammy has a big game in the SB. 

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3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB?  :lol:

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?

 

The 49'ers are another one...........they had a terrible roster.........and in short order they are now in the SB with probably the best roster in the NFL.    

 

As for whether the Bills would have been a SB team with Mahomes and Gilmore and Watkins and all the draft picks that they would have saved not having to trade for KB and Josh Allen etc..............why not?   Do you think McDermott isn't a capable coach?

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11 minutes ago, Rico said:

Buddy trade.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/04/29/bills-trade-lb-kelvin-sheppard-colts-lb-jerry-hughes

 

"Versatility is something we're looking for. We want our linebackers to be able to at least play both outside spots," Bills general manager Buddy Nix said. "We think this will give him an opportunity to do what he does best."

Lesean McCoy

Clicked on the link and remembered just how bad the Nix and Levy Rosters were.  That is probably why people thought Whaley was so great.

Edited by formerlyofCtown

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1 hour ago, Paulus said:

The Sammy hate here is so stupid. Some of y'all are ridiculous. SAD!!!

To me its not Sammy hate it is Sammy beware I supported him while he was here......

 

He does not have the mentality of a 1.....he gets paid like a 1.....I would take him like I would take Corey Davis...but Davis would definately be cheaper

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1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Lesean McCoy

He was OK. When's the last time he played?

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10 minutes ago, Rico said:

He was OK. When's the last time he played?

Week 15.

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB?  :lol:

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?

We had too many holes to keep those guys at that point.  If they were available this offseason we may make a play on Watkins.  They other 2 we don't need.

 

Dang it Goodwin why couldnt you stay committed to football.😎

Edited by formerlyofCtown

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57 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

point whizzed right by you and you were too stubborn to realize it 

 

What was the point?  That the Bills should overpay to keep players who don't produce (Sammy, Darby) or were replaced (Gilmore, which would have meant no White and no extra 1st rounder the following year) and don't appear to want to be in Buffalo?

 

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The 49'ers are another one...........they had a terrible roster.........and in short order they are now in the SB with probably the best roster in the NFL.    

 

As for whether the Bills would have been a SB team with Mahomes and Gilmore and Watkins and all the draft picks that they would have saved not having to trade for KB and Josh Allen etc..............why not?   Do you think McDermott isn't a capable coach?

 

As I said above, if the Bills kept Gilmore, they wouldn't have drafted White and gotten a 1st the following year (which they used along with trading Glenn, who is done, to get Allen).  So no, I don't think that keeping Gilmore and Watkins and drafting Mahomes necessarily meant SB.  As it stands, they've made the playoffs 2 out of McBeane's first 3 years, arguably getting a lot out of an improving but still unfinished roster.

Edited by Doc

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2 hours ago, NoSaint said:


Well, shoot, Now that you mention it he wouldn’t be  a high end passing option.

 

and it changes nothing given it could’ve been tyreek and about 4 if their receivers listed there anyway 


when healthy he had a run of off the charts here. Just too short a window. 

 

So you agree with me that he never was 'off the charts'. I'm glad because otherwise you'd be wrong. This argument is as stupid as saying a player 'flashes'. Doesn't matter if they can do it for a game or a short stretch of games. That is almost as worthless as not being able to do it at all. 

 

Sammy has never been a #1. He's been on 3 teams and irrelevant on all 3 of them. You could get a lot of people to have a good game here or there on KC. I'd say wake me when it he's able to do it with any kind of consistency, but I'd never wake again.

Edited by jeremy2020
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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I don't think Whaley was a "good" GM.......I think he was a road scout hired by a road scout GM and that was a bad fit for a football ignorant ownership group like the Pegs.............but he wasn't terrible and he left behind a lot of defensive talent and an offense that was among the league's most effective.

 

McDermott was a lackluster candidate with no clue about offensive football so hiring someone like that meant that he was either going to have to win over that prime-aged locker room with his coaching and charisma OR get rid of players with leverage who could afford to be skeptical.

 

They went with the latter.........which set the roster back at a time when they also had a lot of good older players.

 

In this time frame teams like the Eagles and Rams and Niners hired offensive minds who chose to build on considerably LESSER rosters than what the Bills had at the end of 2016.........and they've quickly become SB teams.

 

But the nice thing is that even though they self mutilated the roster and even though passing on Mahomes was probably the worst mistake in franchise history..........they still have a chance going forward if Allen pans out and they make good moves going forward.

 

As Belichick says you basically gotta' be making nothing but bad decisions to not be competitive in the NFL.

 

How many Bills fans actually know how a 21st century GM builds a roster?  After the likes of Donahoe, Marv/DJ, Buddy, and Whaley no one who started following the team during those years as a Bills fan could.  That is, unless they just don't follow front office trends around the league.  

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild.  

 

I guess at this point people will chime in to say OBD is doing it the right way and that's why it takes so long.  If that's the case, how did Philadelphia, Seattle, San Fran, and the LA Rams fast-track theirs and why shouldn't Buffalo be expected to do that either?  

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9 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

How many Bills fans actually know how a 21st century GM builds a roster?  After the likes of Donahoe, Marv/DJ, Buddy, and Whaley no one who started following the team during those years as a Bills fan could.  That is, unless they just don't follow front office trends around the league.  

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild.  

 

I guess at this point people will chime in to say OBD is doing it the right way and that's why it takes so long.  If that's the case, how did Philadelphia, Seattle, San Fran, and the LA Rams fast-track theirs and why shouldn't Buffalo be expected to do that either?  

I hear you, but none of the 4 teams you mention had a complete and total POS of an owner like the Bills did. That alone made the job a whole lot tougher, everything 'Ralph' had to be purged.

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Watkins Whiners have been patiently waiting since his last TD to bump this thread. That was week 1, by the way.

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I heard on the game today that after week 1 he did not have a single TD. 

 

And today's TD and one of his in week1 were blown coverages where he was wide open

 

On the chief's he his option #5?

 

 

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Sammys in the Super Bowl, while the Bills continue the process.  Let’s stop being jealous and congratulate him. 

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2 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

Way to contribute.

 

I've said I like Sammy. When all is said and done he should have a lot of money and a decent career to look back on. Why are you so defensive about him being a #1? It has been years since he's shown you that ability, just let it go.

He's never really shown that ability. Take a look at his best season ever. Compare it to even John brown this year.

44 minutes ago, Rico said:

I hear you, but none of the 4 teams you mention had a complete and total POS of an owner like the Bills did. That alone made the job a whole lot tougher, everything 'Ralph' had to be purged.

 

Exactly. 

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49 minutes ago, Rico said:

I hear you, but none of the 4 teams you mention had a complete and total POS of an owner like the Bills did. That alone made the job a whole lot tougher, everything 'Ralph' had to be purged.

 

Never understood why the purge took so long, but that's history now.  My issue is that Buffalo's latest rebuild under the new owners is now entering the 4th off-season and plenty of question marks remain.  There's more spinning of wheels under the current management from owner to field level than meets the eye.    

 

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Sammy just can't be counted on to perform on a weekly basis.  There's been no consistency at any point in his career. And the fact that he's been on 3 teams reflects that. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have a quiet SB. But I will be rooting for him.

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8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think Whaley was a "good" GM.......I think he was a road scout hired by a road scout GM and that was a bad fit for a football ignorant ownership group like the Pegs.............but he wasn't terrible and he left behind a lot of defensive talent and an offense that was among the league's most effective.

 

McDermott was a lackluster candidate with no clue about offensive football so hiring someone like that meant that he was either going to have to win over that prime-aged locker room with his coaching and charisma OR get rid of players with leverage who could afford to be skeptical.

 

They went with the latter.........which set the roster back at a time when they also had a lot of good older players.

 

In this time frame teams like the Eagles and Rams and Niners hired offensive minds who chose to build on considerably LESSER rosters than what the Bills had at the end of 2016.........and they've quickly become SB teams.

 

But the nice thing is that even though they self mutilated the roster and even though passing on Mahomes was probably the worst mistake in franchise history..........they still have a chance going forward if Allen pans out and they make good moves going forward.

 

As Belichick says you basically gotta' be making nothing but bad decisions to not be competitive in the NFL.

 

 

"An offense that was among the league's most effective"? That is utter nonsense. They were an offense that was good at running and below average at passing, an offense that wasn't able to catch up when they fell behind, and an offense that was greatly helped by the very solid defense, and an offense that though it didn't turn the ball over much consistently left the defense with crappy field position despite receiving good field position from that same defense.

 

Not that the rest of your post is any better, though. You've missed the point, again.

 

They got rid of most of those guys for the very very obvious reasons that you still appear determined to pretend don't exist ... that they were in very bad cap shape and were determined to fix that extremely quickly, and that they needed to make trades to get them in position to have enough draft capital to get one of the top QBs the next year in a QB-rich draft.

 

The Eagles, Rams and Niners? You mean the two teams that had already got franchise QBs the year before and the one that lucked into Garoppolo from Belichick and had terrific draft spots besides? They had franchise QBs and of course they were quicker. None of them rebuilt because none of them needed to rebuild. The Bills did. Rebuilds take time. The Rams started the year in 2017 with around $44 mill under the cap and the Niners had around $93 mill. All those teams did a great job but they had franchise QBs or (Niners) extremely high picks.

 

And yeah, McDermott and Beane did self-mutilate the roster. That's what rebuilding does for the first couple of years, especially when you have an atherosclerotic cap situation that you need to remedy on top of the complete lack of a franchise QB.

 

 

7 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild. 

 

 

 

 

That's just wrong. A few rebuilds have gone faster, but looking at the history, those are very few and far between. They do exist, and the Walsh 49ers rebuild that went 2-14, 6-10, championship is the poster child. But the Bills are around the 95th percentile putting up 10 wins in year three.

 

More, the Bills rebuild was handicapped compared to most quickly successful rebuilds by never getting a really good draft pick. Walsh had the first overall pick two years in a row coming in, while the Bills in their first two years came into draft season with #10 and #21. Not to mention I can't think of another quickly successful rebuild that started the first year with a new coach working with a GM he clearly didn't trust or want to work with.

 

Yes, there are plenty of turnarounds that have been faster. But not rebuilds. People who try to refute this generally use as their examples teams that suddenly improved by a bunch of games in one year but were either reloading, just following the plan or were in years 4, 5 or 6 of their rebuilds. The 2008 Pennington Dolphins that improved by 10 games are often mentioned but that's a perfect example of a turnaround that was not a rebuild.

Edited by Thurman#1

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4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Sammy just can't be counted on to perform on a weekly basis.  There's been no consistency at any point in his career. And the fact that he's been on 3 teams reflects that. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have a quiet SB. But I will be rooting for him.

 

 

Me too.

 

I've never understood why Bills fans don't like the guy himself. On the other hand, it's also hard to understand those who argue that he's ever delivered on his potential or even come close. I always wonder if he still hasn't fully recovered from his foot problems.

 

I'll root for him, but I don't want him back unless his salary reflects his productivity rather than his potential.

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

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He's not coming back.....  I just never understood why they dumped him for next to nothing when he was the #4 pick, put up very respectable #'s & had recovered from his 2016 foot injury.

 

The Bills needed a #1 receiver & he was under contract (and they controlled year 5).

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

He's not coming back.....  I just never understood why they dumped him for next to nothing when he was the #4 pick, put up very respectable #'s & had recovered from his 2016 foot injury.

 

The Bills needed a #1 receiver & he was under contract (and they controlled year 5).

 

 

A 2nd rounder (plus EJ Gaines) at that point in time is pry the best they could get given his injury history and the fact that his rookie deal was almost up.  They may have lost him for nothing if they don't make that trade.  The Rams wasted a 2nd round pick on him.  He hasn't produced #1 WR numbers since 2015 even though he's being paid as one.  He's a frustrating player as he shows flashes of greatness but is woefully inconsistent.

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7 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

How many Bills fans actually know how a 21st century GM builds a roster?  After the likes of Donahoe, Marv/DJ, Buddy, and Whaley no one who started following the team during those years as a Bills fan could.  That is, unless they just don't follow front office trends around the league.  

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild.  

 

I guess at this point people will chime in to say OBD is doing it the right way and that's why it takes so long.  If that's the case, how did Philadelphia, Seattle, San Fran, and the LA Rams fast-track theirs and why shouldn't Buffalo be expected to do that either?  

 

Disingenuous. The niners had three consecutive 10 loss seasons prior to this year. There was nothing quick or easy about their turnaround.

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