Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

[Scott7975]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with you that the total body of work matters and that throwing out "unworthy" games is a game you'd have to play fairly for all teams if you're gonna go there.

 

My "fair" comment was intended to indicate that I recognize eanyills viewpoint as valid: "How I’m feeling about Allen’s growth going into next year will be played out in the next few weeks against a combination of about-average to good teams, not one historically bad one. If I wasn’t happy for several weeks before the game, one game against Miami isn’t changing that."

 

I actually don't think Miami is anywhere close to a "historically bad team", but the "wait and see" viewpoint has merit based on historical QB development.

 

Right, it is total body of work.  There is no other way to fairly do it.  A lot of teams have weak schedules this year.  If you do it for Allen then you have to do it for every team. 

 

For instance  Cinci is every bit as bad as Miami.  We played Miami twice and Cinci once.  Ravens played Cinci twice and Miami once.  So lets remove those games for funs sake and to show the point.  Lamar would now have 14 total TDs and Allen would have 13 total TDs.  

[TheFunPolice]

Anti-Josh Allen comments from the haters over the next few weeks/years:

 

"Least deserved AFC player of the week honor of all time!"

"Pro Bowl? Please?!" 

"Got lucky in the divisional round!"

"Got the NE bye in the AFC Title game! Lucky Baltimore wasn't there! Brady is done!"

"Gets to play a mediocre Seattle defense in the Super Bowl.... won't change a thing!" 

"Most over-rated Superbowl MVP ever!"

"Most over-rated NFL MVP of all time!"

"Least deserved Hall of Fame induction ever!"

 

LOL

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Couldn't ask for a better situation. Josh has confidence entering the most important stretch of games in his young career. It's pretty exciting.

[GunnerBill]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 4:33 PM, dneveu said:

I wrote it on another thread - but man... a lot of QBs i watched yesterday looked absolutely lost.  Watsons holding the ball and probably spiked 10-15 passes into the ground, trubiskey just flat out sucks, wentz can't hit a WR clean from 10-20 yards out, Goff can't hit a single pass that requires any type of velocity (but he can hit a deep ball!).  I think trubiskey is going to get dumped, but Wentz and Goff got paid. 

 

Goff's boundary throws look like peterman - and teams are taking away the deep overs.  Wentz has new receivers every week so part of it might be chemistry - and agholor sucks.  Watson was shocking to watch - had it on my tablet and it was just like... he couldn't deliver the ball on time and was constantly low on throws or getting sacked.

 

Yeah - that team can make the playoffs but good luck scoring the amount of points necessary to beat a playoff brees, brady, mahomes, wilson.

 

So Watson was bad on Sunday but it was his first bad game since the very start of last season he was right in the midst of the MVP race before that (and if one bad game knocks you out then people better get off the Lamar horse because he had a shocker against Pittsburgh). I have spoken about Goff at some length here and what I believe to be the issues in LA. He has to play better, no doubt, but their problem starts with scheme and the Head Coach's struggles in trying to adapt to defences playing them differently. I am less allowing for Wentz than you. Yes the Eagles receiving corps is struggling but he is holding the ball forever and is late on almost every throw at the moment. If I was going to have serious long term concerns about one of those three it would be Carson Wentz, no doubt.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

14 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Anti-Josh Allen comments from the haters over the next few weeks/years:

 

"Least deserved AFC player of the week honor of all time!"

"Pro Bowl? Please?!" 

"Got lucky in the divisional round!"

"Got the NE bye in the AFC Title game! Lucky Baltimore wasn't there! Brady is done!"

"Gets to play a mediocre Seattle defense in the Super Bowl.... won't change a thing!" 

"Most over-rated Superbowl MVP ever!"

"Most over-rated NFL MVP of all time!"

"Least deserved Hall of Fame induction ever!"

 

LOL

You forgot " he was a horribly inaccurate 21 for 28"

[CorkScrewHill]

On 11/17/2019 at 5:04 PM, Chemical said:

I mean sure, the "detractors" can admit when he has a good game. I see no reason why not.

 

Can you admit when he has a bad one? Or is "detractor" just another term for someone who doesn't pretend they don't see the bad games/throws?

The question was not about being open that he can have a good game or a bad game. Tom  "freakin" Brady has some bad games. The question is whether people that were against him and have basically made it a point to criticize him ad nauseam can admit the fact that he has shown clear improvement (i.e., growth). If you do not think he has a) then you probably never will; or b) you over-confidently bought a Bill's Rosen jersey and would like to get some use out of it.

[H2o]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Watson was bad on Sunday but it was his first bad game since the very start of last season he was right in the midst of the MVP race before that (and if one bad game knocks you out then people better get off the Lamar horse because he had a shocker against Pittsburgh). I have spoken about Goff at some length here and what I believe to be the issues in LA. He has to play better, no doubt, but their problem starts with scheme and the Head Coach's struggles in trying to adapt to defences playing them differently. I am less allowing for Wentz than you. Yes the Eagles receiving corps is struggling but he is holding the ball forever and is late on almost every throw at the moment. If I was going to have serious long term concerns about one of those three it would be Carson Wentz, no doubt.

Idk Gunner, he was pretty bad against the Jags earlier this season also even though they won the game 13-12. The game against Carolina he was pretty meh as well in a loss. I do like Watson though and think he is definitely one of the better young QB's as well. Every QB, young and vet, will have bad games at some point. You just hope that the number of good greatly outnumber the bad. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I post here...a LOT, obviously. Far too much I’m afraid, and I’m sure some would agree!  I know for a fact I have never reported anyone for any reason. I never saw the need. To my knowledge, I have never been reported. 

 

It’s never even occurred to me to report anyone. I never expected us to all agree on everything. To what degree you disagree can be an issue, but that’s all about HOW you disagree.  

 

I think the mods do a great job. I don’t have thin skin, and I try to ignore the knuckleheads. Don’t let internet clowns get your goat. Just my two cents. 

 

Relax........

 

 

 

...typical Augie....spoken like the "TBD Statesman"....good show bro............

[london_bills]

19 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

There's a lot of truth here...maybe too much for this place. I think it comes down to this: you can't be overly pessimistic about Allen. You can have negative takes wrt anyone else on the team or in the front office but if you're consistently posting about Josh in a non-positive light you will be accused of campaigning against him or outright attacked personally. I had to take multiple weeks off here just to get away from all the personal attacks which just aren't healthy.

 

It doesn't matter what else you're posting either. I'm super pumped about McD, our front office, our defense, how well our FA signings have worked out, etc. Post negatively about Allen and be prepared for responses that are more about destroying your credibility than entertaining discussion. Not everyone is like that, mind you. Many of the posters here are reasonable and you learn things from each other in disagreement. Just have to be careful as Josh seems to be a third rail Bills issue in a lot of ways.    

Everyone thinks they are right.

 

The best posts are by people who think they are right, but also know that it's possible they may be wrong. 

 

 

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

We have a dynamic here where it's OK to target and personally attack.......even troll/stalk those with negative takes on the team.

 

You'll even often see a mod "liking" posts like that which clearly violate TOS.

 

On the other hand.........if you are pessimistic..........you better stay in your lane and have a thick skin.

 

I know you are working to improve that but that's the way it is.........we can improve a lot there which will improve the quality of discussion.

Still have your take on the team, whatever it may be positive or negative. No one should silence opinion.

Edited November 20, 2019 by london_bills

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Watson was bad on Sunday but it was his first bad game since the very start of last season he was right in the midst of the MVP race before that (and if one bad game knocks you out then people better get off the Lamar horse because he had a shocker against Pittsburgh). I have spoken about Goff at some length here and what I believe to be the issues in LA. He has to play better, no doubt, but their problem starts with scheme and the Head Coach's struggles in trying to adapt to defences playing them differently. I am less allowing for Wentz than you. Yes the Eagles receiving corps is struggling but he is holding the ball forever and is late on almost every throw at the moment. If I was going to have serious long term concerns about one of those three it would be Carson Wentz, no doubt.

 

Maybe it was just memories of Watson playing buffalo and I wasn't impressed

Edited November 20, 2019 by dneveu

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Maybe it was just memories of Watson playing buffalo and I wasn't impressed

 

He played that game with broken ribs and a bruised lung. 

 

He is a fantastic quarterback. 

1 hour ago, H2o said:

Idk Gunner, he was pretty bad against the Jags earlier this season also even though they won the game 13-12. The game against Carolina he was pretty meh as well in a loss. I do like Watson though and think he is definitely one of the better young QB's as well. Every QB, young and vet, will have bad games at some point. You just hope that the number of good greatly outnumber the bad. 

 

He played fine against Carolina. He was being absolutely crushed behind the line that day. Unfortunately for Houston just when they had got their line sorted a couple of guys have got nicked up and Baltimore took full advantage. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He played that game with broken ribs and a bruised lung. 

 

He is a fantastic quarterback. 

 

He played fine against Carolina. He was being absolutely crushed behind the line that day. Unfortunately for Houston just when they had got their line sorted a couple of guys have got nicked up and Baltimore took full advantage. 

 

Lines definitely an issue there. Defense is hurt too and got rolled over 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Lines definitely an issue there. Defense is hurt too and got rolled over 

 

Oh yea, as bad as Watson was on Sunday - and I agree he was bad.... very rare for him but I thought he looked rattled and lost his poise a bit - the reason they lost was the defense couldn't stop to Ravens at all. Even if they didn't get hosed on the early non call PI on Hopkins the Texans were not staying in that game for long as the Ravens run game steamrolled them 

[CommonCents]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He played that game with broken ribs and a bruised lung. 

 

He is a fantastic quarterback. 

 

He played fine against Carolina. He was being absolutely crushed behind the line that day. Unfortunately for Houston just when they had got their line sorted a couple of guys have got nicked up and Baltimore took full advantage. 

I enjoy your posts and your love for the game but I think you need to let go of your Watson and Allen takes then start fresh.

 

This may or may not age well but they look like two guys headed in opposite directions. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

I enjoy your posts and your love for the game but I think you need to let go of your Watson and Allen takes then start fresh.

 

This may or may not age well but they look like two guys headed in opposite directions. 

 

It won't age well if you think Watson is anything other than a guy who is going to be a top 10 QB in this league for a long time. He has one bad game and he is headed in a negative direction? 

[london_bills]

2 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

I enjoy your posts and your love for the game but I think you need to let go of your Watson and Allen takes then start fresh.

 

This may or may not age well but they look like two guys headed in opposite directions. 

Were you saying that about Allen after the Cleveland game? I wasn't! 

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It won't age well if you think Watson is anything other than a guy who is going to be a top 10 QB in this league for a long time. He has one bad game and he is headed in a negative direction? 

One bad game? I have watched a few Texans games this year. He was bad in the first Jags game. 

[Augie]

I admire the moxie of anyone who has a firm conviction on how Josh turns out, one way or the other. I’m certainly hopeful, and I like what I perceive as progress, but I can’t swear he’s the guy yet. I guess I’m a cautious optimist. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

One bad game? I have watched a few Texans games this year. He was bad in the first Jags game. 

 

Admittedly I don't think I saw that game but it might be the only Texans game I haven't seen all season. He has been having an incredible year. Genuinely before Sunday I had him top 3 for MVP behind Wilson and right there with Christian McCaffrey.

Edited November 20, 2019 by GunnerBill

[CommonCents]

Bleh. That’s why I said maybe take a step back and look again. I don’t even think that’s close. He has bombed a few games. Has Lamar bombed in any? How could you have him ahead? Heck, even he signed LJ for MVP after his no show Sunday. 

 

I’m not saying he is bad, I just think you are too easy on him.