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The Athletic breaks down Singletary’s big day: The Bills have primarily been a passing team, until Sunday - and it worked

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22 hours ago, TPS said:

IT would be great to see an analysis of the short yardage plays to find out what the issues are.  I know some pointed out Morse getting pushed back.  If he's an issue in short yardage, then maybe the Bills should experiment with a short yardage package -- Feliciano at C and Ford at RG?  Just a thought.

 

Saw a couple of those goal line run plays on Cover1 just now, and it didn't look like Morse was the issue.  Never mind.

 

Or just don't run behind the center? Can also do toss plays out of goalline, or FB dives. 

21 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Foster just hasn’t been taking advantage of his opportunities on Sundays and I’m guessing he hasn’t been doing so in practice either which is why he’s not always active. Duke hasn’t done a ton but he’s done more than Foster. Mckenzie has made plays when he gets the Ball. Duke and McKittrick should be up this week imo. 

 

Fosters been seeing work at gunner too, so they must feel good about some combo of McKenzie/Roberts/foster at WR. Is Duke fully healthy now?

Edited by dneveu

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11 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Or just don't run behind the center? Can also do toss plays out of goalline, or FB dives. 

 

Fosters been seeing work at gunner too, so they must feel good about some combo of McKenzie/Roberts/foster at WR. Is Duke fully healthy now?

Duke wasn’t on the injury report last week

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8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The Bills did try five times to get one yard from Gore, up the middle, got shoved back, and stymied for no yards. That was terrible blocking by almost the entire line. That was a problem. 


More specifically it was poor technique.  They just didn’t get their pads low enough.  Morse in particular stayed too upright - the Skins’ DTs got lower and were able to drive him backwards.

 

Also, from those clips the three run blockers that really stand out to me are Roberts, Dawkins and Knox.  Have no idea why Joe B. graded out Dawkins so poorly this week because he was flat-out mauling from what I saw.

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23 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This is written by Eric Turner at Cover1.  If you are not following his work, you are not meaningfully following the Bills from an Xs and Os/play calling/understanding the game perspective. 

Oh please. 

 

When he takes his personal feelings out of his work I might start to read his stuff again.  

 

The KEY to victory has always been balance.  Good passing and good running.  

 

Look at how well the Rams did w/o Todd Gurley

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38 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Oh please. 

 

When he takes his personal feelings out of his work I might start to read his stuff again.  

 

The KEY to victory has always been balance.  Good passing and good running.  

 

Look at how well the Rams did w/o Todd Gurley

That is a fire take. I don’t really know what feelings you’re talking about, but to pretend that his analysis isn’t the most technical stuff available to the average fan is just wrong.

 

Also, the Rams aren’t faltering because of Gurley, the Rams are failing because teams figured out that if they change the coverage once the coaches line is cut off after 15 seconds, Mcvay can’t feed Goff the play.

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54 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:


More specifically it was poor technique.  They just didn’t get their pads low enough.  Morse in particular stayed too upright - the Skins’ DTs got lower and were able to drive him backwards.

 

Also, from those clips the three run blockers that really stand out to me are Roberts, Dawkins and Knox.  Have no idea why Joe B. graded out Dawkins so poorly this week because he was flat-out mauling from what I saw.

Joe B's grades have to be taken with a grain elevator of salt. 

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1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

That is a fire take. I don’t really know what feelings you’re talking about, but to pretend that his analysis isn’t the most technical stuff available to the average fan is just wrong.

 

Also, the Rams aren’t faltering because of Gurley, the Rams are failing because teams figured out that if they change the coverage once the coaches line is cut off after 15 seconds, Mcvay can’t feed Goff the play.

 

I've read his "stuff" here before he "moved on" and I even went to his web page. 

 

To me he had gotten worse over the years by not just sticking to football to analyze plays.  

the Rams drop off last season had to do with Gurley  or so I read and heard as to why they failed to beat the mundane Pats****

 

Still, I have always been a proponent of a good balance of running and passing.  

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7 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

I've read his "stuff" here before he "moved on" and I even went to his web page. 

 

To me he had gotten worse over the years by not just sticking to football to analyze plays.  

the Rams drop off last season had to do with Gurley  or so I read and heard as to why they failed to beat the mundane Pats****

 

Still, I have always been a proponent of a good balance of running and passing.  

 

Its worth at least following his twitter. For what its worth, hearing your comments caused me to think: are we talking about the same guy? In my mind, that is the farthest from the way I would describe his work. Also, the fact that he gets so much affirmation from players on twitter about how he is correctly analyzing play calls, assignments, etc. tells me he knows what he is talking about. 

 

With respect to the Rams, there was an article written recently about why they are failing. It had to do with comments made by Pats after the Super bowl that they were easy to stop once they found a way to work around McVay calling in the plays after they lined up. 

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11 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The Bills did try five times to get one yard from Gore, up the middle, got shoved back, and stymied for no yards. That was terrible blocking by almost the entire line. That was a problem. 

 

I 100% blame the play calls. How many OLines can bulldoze an 11 man front at will? That’s a crap ton of weight and an unfair task to ask of your linemen.

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7 hours ago, Dopey said:

They're running the ball at an avg of 28.5 times a game. And passing at just over 32 times a game. Removing the teams that haven't had a bye yet, there's only 5 teams with more rush attempts. Not arguing, but I think they have been running the ball. I would like to see Singletary get the ball more often, but I'm pretty sure they were easing him back into the game plan after the hamstring issue. The Athletic saying they have been primarily a passing team isn't correct in my view. Their lowest number of rushing attempts was 20, against the the Eagles. We were down that game and playing catch up. Also, those 4th qtr. comebacks were probably due to more passing than runs. Just my take.

See the NE game for evidence. 

They had the ball in NE territory and decide to get pass happy for no reason and end up taking a costly sack that pushed the FG attempt out and that contributed to the miss. (3 points right there). Later they had the ball down in the red zone and decided to pass the ball and again they got no points out of that drive, those two scoring opportunities result in at the very least 6 total points if we run the ball and don't convert 1st down or TDs and we end up tied with NE and head in to OT. 

 

That game the running game was effective and yet they try and get cute and try to be a "balanced team". If you're getting 4-5 yards a carry then keep running the ball until they show you they can consistently stop it. There is no reason to try and force a passing play.

 

They are passing more than they are rushing, and just because other teams are pass happy doesn't make it the right game plan for the Bills. Run the ball to set up play action.

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6 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

That is a fire take. I don’t really know what feelings you’re talking about, but to pretend that his analysis isn’t the most technical stuff available to the average fan is just wrong.

 

Also, the Rams aren’t faltering because of Gurley, the Rams are failing because teams figured out that if they change the coverage once the coaches line is cut off after 15 seconds, Mcvay can’t feed Goff the play.

I like Turner but he ISNT foolproof.  He actually blocked me years ago when we had a conversation and I showed him why he was off in his breakdown, he just blocked me after so we couldn't talk anymore

 

He is knowledgeable and definitely cares about the game but it's basically his opinion on breakdown's, and we all have those... He doesn't have the playcalls so all he can do is use his eyes to make a assumption about assignments or calls, sometimes he's right sometimes he's wrong

 

It's really not gospel tho he does work hard. 

 

 

Edited by Buffalo716
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On 11/5/2019 at 11:40 AM, Bring it said:

My question is our offensive line that good and just had a bad day against the eagles or are they overrated?

 

I think they didn't try to do against the Eagles what they tried to do against Washington.   They came out (and executed) a pass-heavy game plan on a blustery, windy day. 

 

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3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think they didn't try to do against the Eagles what they tried to do against Washington.   They came out (and executed) a pass-heavy game plan on a blustery, windy day. 

 

Plus they were facing Fletcher Cox. When he’s dialed in Cox is one of the best!

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4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I like Turner but he ISNT foolproof.  He actually blocked me years ago when we had a conversation and I showed him why he was off in his breakdown, he just blocked me after so we couldn't talk anymore

 

He is knowledgeable and definitely cares about the game but it's basically his opinion on breakdown's, and we all have those... He doesn't have the playcalls so all he can do is use his eyes to make a assumption about assignments or calls, sometimes he's right sometimes he's wrong

 

There's also some subjective interpretation about what is happening.  Not sure which game, think it was NE, Josh threw a ball that just hit Gore's outstretched hand, thrown ahead and too wide of him.  Allen had a charging DE pushing his RT back into his face as he threw.  I initially thought Josh deliberately threw it a bit wide so it couldn't be hit and deflected by the defender, but would be caught by Gore or go OOB.  Later when I looked at the all 22 then back in slo-mo I found a couple frames where it looked as though the defender got a couple of fingers on it.  Turner went on and on about how the throw showed poor technique on Josh's part and his feet were wrong etc etc. 

Fast forward a couple weeks and Josh hit several similar throws with similar footwork and they're all "well, Josh's foot placement isn't right but it doesn't matter because you can see he makes a perfect throw blah blah"

 

Fast forward to a KC game where the announcers are looking at exactly the same route and a throw off target in a similar way by Mahomes and they're "let's take a closer look" and found a camera angle where you could see the defender's gloved fingers deflect as the ball went past and they announced proudly "Mahomes just doesn't make a throw that off target unless something like a deflection is involved"

Where am I going with this?  1) I like Cover1 and watch their breakdowns all the time, but I agree he isn't infallible and shouldn't be taken as gospel 2) I think both incidents I describe show where subjectivity creeps in to assessing a QB once you get past "did he complete the pass, or did he not?" level of simple scoring.  If it had been Allen the announcers would never have looked for the deflection because their storyline is "Allen is so erratic".  Cover1 didn't because his storyline was "Allen has poor footwork that is impacting his throws" (which he does sometimes, still).  Advanced stats wouldn't have scored it as a deflected pass but as a bad throw.

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On 11/5/2019 at 6:57 AM, YoloinOhio said:

I hope the Bills roll with the OL they played last week. Ford can spell at RG if needed. 

Yup, run to set up the pass this week. Looking to see some big plays off play action after the run is established.

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9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I 100% blame the play calls. How many OLines can bulldoze an 11 man front at will? That’s a crap ton of weight and an unfair task to ask of your linemen.

But i think strongly , that was exactly the point.

 impose thine will

37 minutes ago, SJDK said:

Yup, run to set up the pass this week. Looking to see some big plays off play action after the run is established.

won't count against the Browns though.  lol
 

Bills need to establish the run and set the tone that way.
as you mention

RO and play action is where Daboll wants to be with Allen imo

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On 11/5/2019 at 6:59 AM, billsfan1959 said:

Their run game has been inconsistent most of the year and lacking a serious playmaking threat. If they continue to feature Singletary and he is able to produce the way he did on Sunday, it will really open up the play action game for Allen and, just maybe, some bigger plays downfield.

They've had big plays available downfield all season.  WRs running open; Josh hasn't done his part on those chances.

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8 hours ago, purple haze said:

They've had big plays available downfield all season.  WRs running open; Josh hasn't done his part on those chances.

They've had some chances for the deep ball that he did not connect on. Most were his fault, some were not. Having a consistently good running game and a back that is a big play threat every time he gets the ball creates different opportunities than just dropping back and trying to hit the deep ball. A good play action game can open up a passing game and give Allen opportunities for big plays downfield that do not necessarily mean throwing it 50 yards.

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This game plan won’t work against team with an offensive pulse. You can’t run the ball constantly against passing teams like KC, Pats, or Baltimore and expect to stay in the games. Our defense is good but usually won’t hold those teams under 20-24. The reason the run worked was because of Singletary and McKenzie being in the lineup a lot. Gore doesn’t produce any outside run or cut back fear so teams just stay on their gaps and let him get his 3-4 yard gains. Gore had at least half a dozen runs this year for 15 yards that Singletary would have broken for at least 30 and probably would have scored on a few.  Those chunk plays change the game. With Gore they don’t exist. I like Frank but he isn’t even converting goal line and short yardage which I figured would be his specialty. He is part of the problem with the run game. 

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32 minutes ago, Locomark said:

This game plan won’t work against team with an offensive pulse. You can’t run the ball constantly against passing teams like KC, Pats, or Baltimore and expect to stay in the games. Our defense is good but usually won’t hold those teams under 20-24. The reason the run worked was because of Singletary and McKenzie being in the lineup a lot. Gore doesn’t produce any outside run or cut back fear so teams just stay on their gaps and let him get his 3-4 yard gains. Gore had at least half a dozen runs this year for 15 yards that Singletary would have broken for at least 30 and probably would have scored on a few.  Those chunk plays change the game. With Gore they don’t exist. I like Frank but he isn’t even converting goal line and short yardage which I figured would be his specialty. He is part of the problem with the run game. 


I think that’s overstating it.  He had one ineffective game against a great front four - and it also looked to me that he may have been wearing the wrong cleats.  Gore almost always falls forward and he also punishes the defense a bit which you need, especially when you’re trying to close out a lead.

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21 minutes ago, Nick the Greek said:

I think I’m gonna bite the bullet and subscribe. 
 

which is better? Athletic or BN? 
 

Those are my 2 choices. 

BN is only $1 for the 1st month. I would do that, and decide if you want to keep it

 

athletic is great, highly recommend - especially if you have other sports teams you follow because it covers them all 

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It's possible that I was incorrect in my condemnation of the Devin Singletary pick.  This may be the one Bills 21st century RB draft pick that finally works out.  Motor has proven that he needs to be ridden hard and put away wet.  He's a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball.  Rarely do you see a rookie RB with the patience to set up blocks for maximum gain.  And when it's not there, get as many yards forward as possible.  Eric Wood made a comment that 2nd and 6 opens up the playbook, whereas 2nd and 12 does not (as a recently departed RB who loved to run backwards did all too often).  Motor gives us everything we've been missing at RB.  Hope he's here for a long time.

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Big plays off PA don't necessarily have to be bombs down the field..  We just need to suck the linebackers in and hit someone with speed across the middle of the field, then let the WR do the rest.  

 

Edited by SCBills

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