Josh Allen - week EIGHT report card

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I’m not saying what should have happened, I’m saying what did happen.   The ball got destroyed on the wind during that play.   Nothing could have been done about it.  The winds gust when they want to 

Brown admitted he ran the wrong route 

That was way, way short. He was so off -- again -- that frankly I'm tired of the excuses for his staggeringly poor performance in that part of his game.  If the Bills are going to be a dangerous offensive team, defenses can't go in knowing they can let receivers get deep because the opposing QB can't hit any of the throws. I think you're starting to see this, actually - on just about all of the deep shots lately, guys have been very open. I mean, why take the threat seriously given the lack of accuracy? 

Edited October 28, 2019 by dave mcbride

[dakrider]

1 minute ago, MDH said:

So when most fans want to toss out garbage time stats because they inflate QB stats Bills’ fans use garbage time as an excuse as to why the QB had crap numbers? ??

 

There’s a trend on this board that it’s never Allen’s fault. It’s Zay’s fault, it’s Daboll’s fault and now, apparently, it’s garbage time’s fault.

 

I don’t get why fans can’t judge QB play on the Bills honestly. They’ve been making excuses for bad QB play for 20+ years.

 

Saying Allen has a bad game doesn’t mean he can’t, or won’t, develop into a good QB. It’s okay to just admit it.

I would say Allen had a bad fumble and then had a terrible finish to the game but no add'l turnovers.  But that is also a bit uncharacteristic of him as he usually plays very well in the 4th. This game was not an indicator, it was an aberration imo.  The Bills passing offense isn't good enough to rely on just throwing the ball.  The Niners, Saints, Seahawks, and most other teams that won yesterday did so with a decent rushing attack as well.  Once the safeties start playing back because they don't have to worry about the run, and the linebackers aren't needing to blitz, your throwing out to 3 guys against 6-7 defenders. 

So the other thing I want to note is there seemed to be several offensive plays where players were not running the correct route or executing the play.  Bills offense is not in mid-season form. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, MDH said:

So when most fans want to toss out garbage time stats because they inflate QB stats Bills’ fans use garbage time as an excuse as to why the QB had crap numbers? ??

 

There’s a trend on this board that it’s never Allen’s fault. It’s Zay’s fault, it’s Daboll’s fault and now, apparently, it’s garbage time’s fault.

 

I don’t get why fans can’t judge QB play on the Bills honestly. They’ve been making excuses for bad QB play for 20+ years.

 

Saying Allen has a bad game doesn’t mean he can’t, or won’t, develop into a good QB. It’s okay to just admit it.

 

That's NOT what I'm saying.  What I'm intrigued about is why didn't we get garbage yards/TD.  My belief is it indicates that we have a long way to go in providing this offense with explosive play makers.  

 

The garbage time comment was also aimed at all those who think that hitting 300 yards passing is a huge deal.  It's probably the most overrated stat in football because it's so often attained as  a result of garbage time production.    Andy Dalton has multiple 300+ yard games and even has a 400 yard game this year!  And the Bengals are 0 - 8.

 

And I don't think Allen played badly yesterday.  I think he was average which is why I graded him as a C+. 

 

Over the last few years the Bills did to the offense what Miami has done to their team.  It's been a 100% tank job.  And while doing this we've inserted a raw, project QB! 

 

The next step is to build an O-line and insert explosive skill players into the offense.  That job has just begun and is far from complete.  In the meantime they've determined that Allen can learn & grow in a trial by fire situation and that he has the mental & physical toughness to survive such a process.  If all goes according to plan the next few seasons will see this all come together.

 

What you see as excuses is simply trying to factor in some context when looking at Allen's performances. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, dakrider said:

I would say Allen had a bad fumble and then had a terrible finish to the game but no add'l turnovers.  But that is also a bit uncharacteristic of him as he usually plays very well in the 4th. This game was not an indicator, it was an aberration imo.  The Bills passing offense isn't good enough to rely on just throwing the ball.  The Niners, Saints, Seahawks, and most other teams that won yesterday did so with a decent rushing attack as well.  Once the safeties start playing back because they don't have to worry about the run, and the linebackers aren't needing to blitz, your throwing out to 3 guys against 6-7 defenders. 

So the other thing I want to note is there seemed to be several offensive plays where players were not running the correct route or executing the play.  Bills offense is not in mid-season form. 

 

Take a look at the difference in skill players, particularly at TE & RB, is all you need to do here.  The Niners running game is POTENT ours is less so.

 

 

[zow2]

19 minutes ago, MDH said:

So when most fans want to toss out garbage time stats because they inflate QB stats Bills’ fans use garbage time as an excuse as to why the QB had crap numbers? ??

 

There’s a trend on this board that it’s never Allen’s fault. It’s Zay’s fault, it’s Daboll’s fault and now, apparently, it’s garbage time’s fault.

 

I don’t get why fans can’t judge QB play on the Bills honestly. They’ve been making excuses for bad QB play for 20+ years.

 

Saying Allen has a bad game doesn’t mean he can’t, or won’t, develop into a good QB. It’s okay to just admit it.

 

Agreed.  People locally can't seem to judge this QB's performances honestly.  He's a great guy, seems to have a high QB IQ level.  We all want him to do well.

 

As for garbage time... it's just woeful that they couldn't string together some short passes and dump off's to move down the field late.  The Eagles were just giving Buffalo the middle of the field....and they couldn't take it.  Every NFL game has that aspect.  One poster told me it's Daboll's fault because we don't have a good screen game.  please. lol.  

[CincyBillsFan]

36 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

That's not really true.  The score was 24-13 and the Bills had a great chance to make it 24-20 with THREE straight possessions that literally went nowhere.  one of which was in excellent field position.  The Eagles got that final nail-in-the-coffin TD after the O failed miserably when the team needed them to step up.   I'd give Allen a solid D grade yesterday. 

 

This is a complete misrepresentation of what actually happened yesterday and that's why it's hard to take the Allen critics seriously. 

 

I agree that the biggest let down by Allen & the offense was the failure to score after the fumble recovery.  They own that.  But when we went 3 & out and punted the eagles to their 16 yard line at the start of the 4th quarter it was on the defense NOT the offense to put us into position to win this game.  At that point the Eagles were going into the wind and had the D forced a 3 & out we likely have the ball inside the 50 yard line with 13 minutes left.  Can you say comeback?

 

We'll never know though becasue our D allowed the Eagles to go on an 84 yard, 8:30 drive INTO the wind for the game clinching TD.  So if you're going to engage in "coulda, woulda, shoulda" then at least be accurate about what was happening. 

[MAJBobby]

What is Interesting is this Offense has gone very safe in the two weeks post bye.  Hmmm could it be Ultra Conservative HC has something to do with that.  Yay Josh hasnt thrown any picks last two weeks but the Offense also has looked very conservative and blah the last two weeks.  Hmmm is Allen being coached into becoming Tyrod?

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

Agreed.  People locally can't seem to judge this QB's performances honestly.  He's a great guy, seems to have a high QB IQ level.  We all want him to do well.

 

As for garbage time... it's just woeful that they couldn't string together some short passes and dump off's to move down the field late.  The Eagles were just giving Buffalo the middle of the field....and they couldn't take it.  Every NFL game has that aspect.  One poster told me it's Daboll's fault because we don't have a good screen game.  please. lol.  

 

The reason we don't have an effective screen game lies with the O-line and RB's.  They clearly can't execute it very well and Daboll knows this.  On the rare times they try to run it Allen has to throw the ball at the RB's feet because half the D is around the screen guy. 

 

 

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He also badly missed a wide open Foster on a deep ball that would have put them up 14-3 in the second. 

 

That was entirely on Foster. He sped up instead of adjusting to the ball. This is a problem he's had going back to last year. A decent WR catches that uncontested. Especially in wind conditions like that you have to track the ball better.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

What is Interesting is this Offense has gone very safe in the two weeks post bye.  Hmmm could it be Ultra Conservative HC has something to do with that.  Yay Josh hasnt thrown any picks last two weeks but the Offense also has looked very conservative and blah the last two weeks.  Hmmm is Allen being coached into becoming Tyrod?

 

Man I hope not.  But I'm thinking that they don't want him lit up knowing that they're far from having a decent offensive unit. 

 

Allen's been thrown into the fire with the expectation that he'll grow into a better QB as a result.  I think the brain trust has determined that he has the mental & physical toughness to survive the ordeal.  But what they don't want to happen is what might be happening to Darnold.  That is to take a lot of hits/sacks and throwing multiple INT's every game.  Darnold has thrown 7 INT's the last two games.  That could shake anyone's confidence. 

 

So they play if safe this year knowing that in some games that will mean a loss.  But by doing this they develop Allen and they might sneak into the playoffs as a wild card.  Next year after a big off season and draft the Bills enter 2020 with a much more robust Offense.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Man I hope not.  But I'm thinking that they don't want him lit up knowing that they're far from having a decent offensive unit. 

 

Allen's been thrown into the fire with the expectation that he'll grow into a better QB as a result.  I think the brain trust has determined that he has the mental & physical toughness to survive the ordeal.  But what they don't want to happen is what might be happening to Darnold.  That is to take a lot of hits/sacks and throwing multiple INT's every game.  Darnold has thrown 7 INT's the last two games.  That could shake anyone's confidence. 

 

So they play if safe this year knowing that in some games that will mean a loss.  But by doing this they develop Allen and they might sneak into the playoffs as a wild card.  Next year after a big off season and draft the Bills enter 2020 with a much more robust Offense.

 

 

How they getting that Robust offense.  I have a feeling the Assets will be spent on the Defense Again

[Prickly Pete]

To me, these games are just stages in the team's and Allen's development. Other teams come up with effective challenges, and the Bills or Allen have to learn to adapt. Allen (and the team) have been progressing just fine to me, this is just a tough "learning period".

 

They are 5-2.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

How many 200 yard, 2 TD games do we get to watch before we see our franchise QB throw a 300 yard, 3 TD game?!?   When can we have an offense that can bail out the defense?  You see a guy come off the couch in Atlanta and throw 450... you see Bridgewater who hadn't played in a couple years throw for 350 and 4 TD's..  you have Daniel Jones tossing multiple 300 yd games already.. Minshew, etc..

 

Not saying Josh should have thrown for 300 and 3 TDs  in those weather conditions yesterday, but c'mon.  Stop with the excuses.  Time to grow up.  After the Singletary TD, there was ample opportunity to get chunk passing yards on screen plays and they still couldn't do it.  

 

I don't care as much about the designed run fumble yesterday,  I care more that when Allen stands in the pocket and scans the field, a lot of bad things happen.  That's very concerning.

 

I want to theorize that part of that is coaching.  When you see guys coming off the couch throwing 300+ yard games, it's usually because the coaches make it easy on the QB. Especially when they only have a small amount of time to get ready. Now, it's just a theory mind you as I have no idea but... we got John Brown saying to the media that this is the most complex offense he has been in.  If its that complex for a receiver then it is even more complex for a QB.  Josh was drafted practically a project.  I don't feel like the coaching is doing him many favors here.

 

Again, I could be wrong about all this but I feel like coaches could make it easier on Josh.  I feel like Dabol is making Josh run the system he wants to run rather than forming a system around what Josh is currently capable of.  A lot of young QBs have been having good success in the NFL and I almost always read an article about how the coaches tailored their offense to make it easy on them and also based on their strengths.  I don't think that's what happened here in Buffalo.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Scott7975

[HappyDays]

36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

yes, it was late and forced him to slow down, allowing Darby to recover. 

 

And that one was on Brown, as he admitted after the game. The route needed to be flatter. He ran into tight coverage. It was a miscommunication, not bad timing.

 

If it sounds like I'm making excuses for Allen I'm really not. At this point in his career he is not a QB that can thrive without a really good supporting cast. He needs the people around him to make plays when they're there.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

How they getting that Robust offense.  I have a feeling the Assets will be spent on the Defense Again

 

I sure hope not. 

 

Next year the #1 draft pick should be a WR as that position is loaded. 

 

In the off season the Bills have the funds to spend heavily on an offensive Tackle & DE.  We should be able to get a decent RB & LB without breaking the bank.

 

I think we can expect further development of Knox & Singleterry into much better offensive weapons.  The KEY will be that Ford develops into a starting caliber guard.  Given where we drafted him and the skill players we passed on to get him this is a huge thing that must go right for the franchise.

 

 

[Antonio]

He is progressing, we will keep improving.

 

We all want to see Mahomes or Watson like play from him. But we are not there yet and we do not have the same OC´s as those two QBs.

 

I´m happy we have him, and I will take the growing pains. Yesterday was on everybody, specially coaching.

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

56 minutes ago, MDH said:

So when most fans want to toss out garbage time stats because they inflate QB stats Bills’ fans use garbage time as an excuse as to why the QB had crap numbers? ??

 

There’s a trend on this board that it’s never Allen’s fault. It’s Zay’s fault, it’s Daboll’s fault and now, apparently, it’s garbage time’s fault.

 

I don’t get why fans can’t judge QB play on the Bills honestly. They’ve been making excuses for bad QB play for 20+ years.

 

Saying Allen has a bad game doesn’t mean he can’t, or won’t, develop into a good QB. It’s okay to just admit it.

Ah the strawman argument. I feel no need to defend my comments from your attack. BTW, I gave him a C, what's your grade D or F? From your tone, never mind, I don't care I know.

Edited October 28, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[TheElectricCompany]

If I had a nickel for every "Josh is still developing...." comment ?

We know he is. Can he put together a complete game along the way? 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by TheElectricCompany

[billsfan1959]

46 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Alot of people on this board aren't seeing this.  It's another denial thing where Josh is fine

 

31 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Agreed.  People locally can't seem to judge this QB's performances honestly. 

 

Let me just take this opportunity to thank you for being the guiding light for the vast majority of us who (1) either have no ability whatsoever to honestly and objectively analyze QB play or (2) are such "homers" that we are blind to anything that Allen does not do well.

 

Thank goodness we have such gifted football intellects, like yours, on this board to save the rest of us from our own ignorance.

[zow2]

19 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I want to theorize that part of that is coaching.  When you see guys coming off the couch throwing 300+ yard games, it's usually because the coaches make it easy on the QB. Especially when they only have a small amount of time to get ready. Now, it's just a theory mind you as I have no idea but... we got John Brown saying to the media that this is the most complex offense he has been in.  If its that complex for a receiver then it is even more complex for a QB.  Josh was drafted practically a project.  I don't feel like the coaching is doing him many favors here.

 

Again, I could be wrong about all this but I feel like coaches could make it easier on Josh.  I feel like Dabol is making Josh run the system he wants to run rather than forming a system around what Josh is currently capable of.  A lot of young QBs have been having good success in the NFL and I almost always read an article about how the coaches tailored their offense to make it easy on them and also based on their strengths.  I don't think that's what happened here in Buffalo.

 

I'll buy part of that.  The system sounds complex and they definitely are trying to make Josh more of a stand-in-the-pocket guy.   We can hope he's that kind pf passer someday but for now he's more Lamar Jackson than a Matt Ryan.  They should let Josh be Josh and not some robotic, conservative, pocket passer who has 2.3 seconds to recognize coverages, break down defenses...and throw an accurate pass on top of it.