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JoshAllenHasBigHands

Milano Roughing the Passer

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So for whatever reason, I haven't seen this discussed.  I found this to be one of the wildest roughing the passer penalties I have ever seen.  

 

My question is this: Is there an intent element to these penalties?  If not, should there be?  

 

I mean, imagine for a moment an offensive lineman throws his guy into the quarterbacks knees.  Would the rusher still get a penalty? I feel like this is essentially what happened to Milano.  I understand accidents--such as your free hand striking a quarterbacks head--but this was more than an accident, Milano did a complete flip. This was completely unavoidable on his part.    

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It was indeed Roughing the Passer according to the modern rules. I said "Thats a flag" the second i happened, and sure enough.... Even if "unavoidable" (which I agree with)

 

The idea that an OL would purposely throw a Defender into his own QB's knees is a bit ludicrous. That OL would be cut immediately.

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It was pure BS. Milano can't defy physics mid air. There has to be some common sense applied. 

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Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

It was indeed Roughing the Passer according to the modern rules. I said "Thats a flag" the second i happened, and sure enough.... Even if "unavoidable" (which I agree with)

 

The idea that an OL would purposely throw a Defender into his own QB's knees is a bit ludicrous. That OL would be cut immediately.

 

I hate that rule....

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3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:


So for whatever reason, I haven't seen this discussed.  I found this to be one of the wildest roughing the passer penalties I have ever seen.  

 

My question is this: Is there an intent element to these penalties?  If not, should there be?  

 

I mean, imagine for a moment an offensive lineman throws his guy into the quarterbacks knees.  Would the rusher still get a penalty? I feel like this is essentially what happened to Milano.  I understand accidents--such as your free hand striking a quarterbacks head--but this was more than an accident, Milano did a complete flip. This was completely unavoidable on his part.    

Yeah I was wondering about that too.. Similar to the "blocking into the punt returner" penalty. That flag is picked up.

 

I guess the intent doesn't matter when it comes to QB's. That's a VERY rare play to happen and I'd be interested to see if the league keeps it consistent if it does happen again. I have no problem with that being a penalty if its consistent. They're simply trying to take low hits to the QB out of that game at all costs.

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I've seen this type of contact happen with multiple teams, not just Matt Milano and the Bills.  Not sure why the NFL can't get this straightened out with reviews and coach's challenges.  I see the need to protect the QB against unnecessary roughness, but it has gone too far where they might as well be playing flag football.

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its just one of those things. When he flew into Mariota you knew the flag was coming.

 

I have to say, with all of the bad calls (PI, Roughing the QB) the refs are making this year, they do a relatively good job of making up for the bad ones. Pay attention the next time you watch a game. Make up calls have been and will be a real thing as long as refs have as much power as they do in today's game.

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2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I've seen this type of contact happen with multiple teams, not just Matt Milano and the Bills.  Not sure why the NFL can't get this straightened out with reviews and coach's challenges.  I see the need to protect the QB against unnecessary roughness, but it has gone too far where they might as well be playing flag football.

You've seen a player flipped into a QB's knees before? 

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I'm generally in favor of black and white rules in sports, no slippery slopes.  Leave wiggle room and the Belicheats of the world will teach their players to keep "accidentally" doing things if left up to subjectivity from the biased refs.

 

You know, like he already does.

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1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

You've seen a player flipped into a QB's knees before? 

 

I've seen incidental contact where the defender could not avoid the QB

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When Tommy Boy gets hit low and misses the season, shart happens. Hasn’t made much sense since. 

But We -and every team have benefited from it from time to time..

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4 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Yeah I was wondering about that too.. Similar to the "blocking into the punt returner" penalty. That flag is picked up.

 

I guess the intent doesn't matter when it comes to QB's. That's a VERY rare play to happen and I'd be interested to see if the league keeps it consistent if it does happen again. I have no problem with that being a penalty if its consistent. They're simply trying to take low hits to the QB out of that game at all costs.

I agree, but calling that isn't taking the low hits to the QB out of the game. That penalty serves no purpose. Penalties are supposed to deter players from breaking the rules. A penalty in that situation does not do that.

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The NFL game itself has some serious flaws.

 

The fact that you can do everything 'correct' when making a tackle, and still die... is kinda strange... 

 

There are so many rules in place to keep the fancy (quarterback) players healthy for the sole reason of appealing to the average fan.  Today, we are watching college style, arena football.  It's not the NFL anymore.

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That damn hamburgler of an official was pissing me off on Sunday. I wanted to strangle him

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1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

When Tommy Boy gets hit low and misses the season, shart happens. Hasn’t made much sense since. 

But We -and every team have benefited from it from time to time..

 

I cant believe Im saying this, but to be fair this was the Carson Palmer rule. Definitely sped along by the Brady injury though too.

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Just now, CLTbills said:

I agree, but calling that isn't taking the low hits to the QB out of the game. That penalty serves no purpose. Penalties are supposed to deter players from breaking the rules. A penalty in that situation does not do that.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all.... As long as that call is consistent (as rare as it may be), i'm fine with it. It happens and its a rule they're implementing. Not all players are intentionally trying to hit a player in the head when they do it.... it's still a penalty.

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A total chickensh*t call. Just terrible. Makes you wonder what else refs miss on a play to play basis.

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1 minute ago, Jobot said:

The NFL game itself has some serious flaws.

 

The fact that you can do everything 'correct' when making a tackle, and still die... is kinda strange... 

 

There are so many rules in place to keep the fancy (quarterback) players healthy for the sole reason of appealing to the average fan.  Today, we are watching college style, arena football.  It's not the NFL anymore.

 

That's... not quite accurate. Sure, anything is possible in high-impact contact sports, but EVERY major injury we've seen in football has been caused by improper form when making contact. Dropping the head and leading with the crown/top. Not the way to tackle.

5 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

I agree, but calling that isn't taking the low hits to the QB out of the game. That penalty serves no purpose. Penalties are supposed to deter players from breaking the rules. A penalty in that situation does not do that.

 

It wont take them all out of the game, but it has taken a lot of them out of the game. When the accidental ones are the only ones left happening, the rule worked.

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Yes the call was complete BS.

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Logically, he was indeed "blocked into the QB" because his imminent trajectory without the block would not have hit the QB.

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7 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The "encroachment" call in the red zone made me a bit more furious to be honest.

Me too. How do you miss the entire right side of the line taking a full step backward a full second before the ball is snapped?

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14 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:


So for whatever reason, I haven't seen this discussed.  I found this to be one of the wildest roughing the passer penalties I have ever seen.  

 

My question is this: Is there an intent element to these penalties?  If not, should there be?  

 

I mean, imagine for a moment an offensive lineman throws his guy into the quarterbacks knees.  Would the rusher still get a penalty? I feel like this is essentially what happened to Milano.  I understand accidents--such as your free hand striking a quarterbacks head--but this was more than an accident, Milano did a complete flip. This was completely unavoidable on his part.    

 

Thats roughing the passer because he hit the QB all on his own accord.  In live play, I too thought he was "flipped" into the QB, but he actually wasn't and dove with his own momentum into the QB.  

 

It wasn't "intentional" but it doesn't have to be to violate a rule.  Just like running into a kicker does not have to be intentional, but if the defender hits the kicker even while trying their best avoid doing so, its still a penalty.  Roughing the passer is not required to be intentional, the rule is the QB can not be hit after he has thrown the ball regardless of the intent of the defender.

 

It is however NOT roughing the passer though if the defender is thrown into the QB by one of the offensive players.  For example, had someone physically tossed Milano into him, it would not be called.  This is to prevent OL from tying to get free yardage by intentionally making the guys they are blocking hit the QB for a penalty.  

 

One thing I would argue is that there should be two levels to the penalty like roughing the kicker with a lighter penalty of 5 yards on plays like this one and then the 15 yard play for the bigger offenses.  Especially given some of the real tricky tack roughing the QB calls that have happened across the league the last 2 years.

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17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

It was indeed Roughing the Passer according to the modern rules. I said "Thats a flag" the second i happened, and sure enough.... Even if "unavoidable" (which I agree with)

 

The idea that an OL would purposely throw a Defender into his own QB's knees is a bit ludicrous. That OL would be cut immediately.

 

Well obviously. That isn't the point. It is still a play that draws a flag against the defense. The point is to illustrate the absurdity of the rule. 

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