Who has a better chance of making the 53?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I think they are really looking hard at Duke.

 

 

I am sure he will get a fair shake. But he saw no more than a handful of snaps with the 1s in the spring according to all reports even with Brown, Beasley and Zay missing various bits of time. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sure he will get a fair shake. But he saw no more than a handful of snaps with the 1s in the spring according to all reports even with Brown, Beasley and Zay missing various bits of time. 

 

 

There's a possibility he's too dumb to play in the NFL...

[eball]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I think they are really looking hard at Duke.

 

But, yeah, a few teams could use a big TE like a big WR (Gronk, Kielce, Graham).  But many teams use bigger WR for situations other than "particularly in the red zone". And the Bills haven't ever been one of those teams.  The endless parade of "TE's" they have looked at this off season should  tell you they aren't quite settled at that position yet.

 

 

I think Duke's odds of making this roster are extremely long, and I also think Daboll will use the TEs a lot more.  Kroft's and Croom's injuries may have been a blessing in disguise, allowing Knox and Sweeney to get all of those reps in OTAs.  I'm more intrigued by which TEs make the final 53, because I see legitimate arguments for all five of them (including Lee Smith).

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think Duke's odds of making this roster are extremely long, and I also think Daboll will use the TEs a lot more.  Kroft's and Croom's injuries may have been a blessing in disguise, allowing Knox and Sweeney to get all of those reps in OTAs.  I'm more intrigued by which TEs make the final 53, because I see legitimate arguments for all five of them (including Lee Smith).

 

There's no room or need for Smith.  I like Sweeney.  Knox, for a "gym rat", looks soft.  Croom hasn't done anything with the opportunities he has been given (at least on the field, wink , wink).  Kroft's foot is clearly injury prone.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

There's no room or need for Smith.  I like Sweeney.  Knox, for a "gym rat", looks soft.  Croom hasn't done anything with the opportunities he has been given (at least on the field, wink , wink).  Kroft's foot is clearly injury prone.

 

Kroft makes it health allowing obviously. Smith is on the team. Knox is on the team. Sweeney and Croom both have a shot at a 4th spot. But it isnt certain they carry 4 and they certainly dont carry 5. 

[eball]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

There's no room or need for Smith.  I like Sweeney.  Knox, for a "gym rat", looks soft.  Croom hasn't done anything with the opportunities he has been given (at least on the field, wink , wink).  Kroft's foot is clearly injury prone.

 

Of the five, Croom is my first to go.  I don't know how you can form an opinion about whether Knox is "soft" based upon OTA reports.

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kroft makes it health allowing obviously. Smith is on the team. Knox is on the team. Sweeney and Croom both have a shot at a 4th spot. But it isnt certain they carry 4 and they certainly dont carry 5. 

 

 

Only because of the sunk costs.  Talent-wise, he may not even be in their top 3.  Knox they spent for with a high pick.  A blocking only TE isn't long for this NFL.  If Smith's in, it really is a waste of a roster spot.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Only because of the sunk costs.  Talent-wise, he may not even be in their top 3.  Knox they spent for with a high pick.  A blocking only TE isn't long for this NFL.  If Smith's in, it really is a waste of a roster spot.

 

I assure you talent wise Kroft is in their top 3. If he can get healthy he is gonna surprise some people. He can play. As for blocking TEs... they are not as rare as you think. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I assure you talent wise Kroft is in their top 3. If he can get healthy he is gonna surprise some people. He can play. As for blocking TEs... they are not as rare as you think. 

 

 

i would think one would have to be a very, VERY close watcher of the Bengals to tease out the strengths of Kroft as an NFL TE, given his career thus far...

[Doc]

Kroft will be on the PUP list to start the season so he won’t count towards the 53 man roster.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

i would think one would have to be a very, VERY close watcher of the Bengals to tease out the strengths of Kroft as an NFL TE, given his career thus far...

 

I have seen plenty of him. 

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

Kroft will be on the PUP list to start the season so he won’t count towards the 53 man roster.

 

They would have to believe he will be unable to contribute for half the season to do that. I expect him to be back in light work by the time the season starts and if you PUP him he can't join the active roster until week 7 at the earliest and there are all sorts of rules about how much he can practice before then too. If the Bills think there is any chance he could be full go by say week 3 (and on a normal recovery rate that is about where it works out) then they will have to put him on the active roster. 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

In defense of ray ray he played hurt all year and said he lost 10 pounds because an injury that he was never able to get back

 

Supposedly hes been grinding and looking pretty good now that he's healthy

For his sake, he better be improved or his career is about to be over imo.  I still think he has little to no chance to make the team.  He isn’t very fast.  He isn’t THAT quick and agile  to make up for his lack of speed.  Again, just my opinion, but would love to see him prove me wrong 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Unless they catch on as Special Teams, I'm not sure what unique skill either of these guys bring as WR, given who else is on the roster.

 

Workout videos are meaningless.

McKenzie is more of an underneath/near the line of scrimmage target that can take it the distance.  He’s proven to able able to take it to the house. He’s a big play guy.  Beasley is the short passing game guy but he doesn’t explode like McKenzie.  Zay doesn’t either.   Brown is a deep threat, not so much a screen/short passing game target imo. Foster was a lot more downfield as well last year.  He can also be. Serious threat as a returner. It’s not that we wasn’t a good returner, he had issues holding onto the ball.  Fix that and he’s a sought after return guy imo.

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yes, TE's are big.

 

 

I was referring to WR...

While we definitely have some shorties Zay and Foster are both 6’2, with Zay looking to have added 15 lbs or so. 

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

They would have to believe he will be unable to contribute for half the season to do that. I expect him to be back in light work by the time the season starts and if you PUP him he can't join the active roster until week 7 at the earliest and there are all sorts of rules about how much he can practice before then too. If the Bills think there is any chance he could be full go by say week 3 (and on a normal recovery rate that is about where it works out) then they will have to put him on the active roster. 

 

He'll definitely be put him on PUP to start TC and they'll monitor him from there.  But seeing as how he broke the foot just 6 weeks ago, I'd think a week 7 return (5 months from injury) is more likely and prudent. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

He'll definitely be put him on PUP to start TC and they'll monitor him from there.  But seeing as how he broke the foot just 6 weeks ago, I'd think a week 7 return (5 months from injury) is more likely and prudent. 

 

That would be at the longer end of the timeframe. I am a little more optimistic. 

[Buffalo716]

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

For his sake, he better be improved or his career is about to be over imo.  I still think he has little to no chance to make the team.  He isn’t very fast.  He isn’t THAT quick and agile  to make up for his lack of speed.  Again, just my opinion, but would love to see him prove me wrong 

You aren't wrong on most accounts

[Mr. WEO]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have seen plenty of him. 

 

 

Well that alone makes you unique!   He's played, essentially, 1 season of meaning.

 

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

McKenzie is more of an underneath/near the line of scrimmage target that can take it the distance.  He’s proven to able able to take it to the house. He’s a big play guy. 

 

 

Where?  He has 22 catches for 200 yards and zero TDs in his career.  his YPC is under 10.

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well that alone makes you unique!   He's played, essentially, 1 season of meaning.

 

 

 

Where?  He has 22 catches for 200 yards and zero TDs in his career.  his YPC is under 10.

 

Scored 2 rushing TDs on gadget plays though.

 

As for Kroft - yea he was mainly a backup his first two years. But he played in 2017 and was an effective blocker and a reliable receiving tight end. He is a low end starter / high end backup who can do both jobs and doesn't tip your hat when he comes onto the field. And he is an effective redzone guy. He was the tight end I wanted. I was very pleased when we signed him. Clearly the injury is bad news. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Scored 2 rushing TDs on gadget plays though.

 

As for Kroft - yea he was mainly a backup his first two years. But he played in 2017 and was an effective blocker and a reliable receiving tight end. He is a low end starter / high end backup who can do both jobs and doesn't tip your hat when he comes onto the field. And he is an effective redzone guy. He was the tight end I wanted. I was very pleased when we signed him. Clearly the injury is bad news. 

 

This was one opinion in Cincy:

 

Tyler Kroft: Kroft feels like the safety net for the Bengals. Outside of his seven touchdown in 2017 after Eifert got hurt, he hasn’t done much in the way of the passing game. He is an okay blocker, but you could easily find a better one. 

Kroft’s 2017 numbers are actually pretty close with Uzomah’s 2018, but Kroft started every game in 2017. He is a suitable backup tight end based on his red-zone ability, but if it ultimately came down to Cincinnati losing all three of their tight ends or ending up with just Kroft, keeping Kroft is only slightly better.

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This was one opinion in Cincy:

 

Tyler Kroft: Kroft feels like the safety net for the Bengals. Outside of his seven touchdown in 2017 after Eifert got hurt, he hasn’t done much in the way of the passing game. He is an okay blocker, but you could easily find a better one. 

Kroft’s 2017 numbers are actually pretty close with Uzomah’s 2018, but Kroft started every game in 2017. He is a suitable backup tight end based on his red-zone ability, but if it ultimately came down to Cincinnati losing all three of their tight ends or ending up with just Kroft, keeping Kroft is only slightly better.

The Kroft signing really feels like one of those in which Beane felt like he had to sign SOMEONE early in the process just in case there were no options left. Not enthused about ol Tyler.

[purple haze]

16 hours ago, NewEra said:

 

Tim Graham, when asked who has the best chance to stick as the #6 Wr,  chose McCloud over McKenzie and the rest of the WRs.  I realize other see duke or Sills being that guy.  The reason is only include McKenzie is because he’s the most like McCloud. Smaller gadget type wr that can double as backup returners.

 

i think Ray Ray has close to a zero % chance of making the squad and his NFL career, likely over 

Close to 0?  Come on, man.  They drafted him for a reason.  If they really thought he had nothing he would have been gone by now.   Obviously management doesn't agree with you.  No, McCloud didn't play well when he got the opportunity.  That doesn't mean he won't play well come July and going forward.  Players acclimate.   Players get better.   We shall see...

[Albany,n.y.]

Nun of the above.  That means neither has a prayer.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

That would be at the longer end of the timeframe. I am a little more optimistic. 

 

It would be, but considering he broke his foot in non-contact drills, it would be warranted. 

[Ronin]

12 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

The reality is that neither may make the team.

 

And honestly, if that's the difference then we're hurting.  

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, purple haze said:

Close to 0?  Come on, man.  They drafted him for a reason.  If they really thought he had nothing he would have been gone by now.   Obviously management doesn't agree with you.  No, McCloud didn't play well when he got the opportunity.  That doesn't mean he won't play well come July and going forward.  Players acclimate.   Players get better.   We shall see...

We’ll see

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well that alone makes you unique!   He's played, essentially, 1 season of meaning.

 

 

 

Where?  He has 22 catches for 200 yards and zero TDs in his career.  his YPC is under 10.

In college, he scored once every 7 touches 

 

I believe I included in my statement “near the line of scrimmage target” while he wasn’t a target so so speak, he had a TD run vs the jags and another vs the jets.  This is part of why he’s more valuable.  They can use him in a variety of ways.  Having great burst and acceleration makes a ball carrier a greater weapon than a ball carrier without it.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This was one opinion in Cincy:

 

Tyler Kroft: Kroft feels like the safety net for the Bengals. Outside of his seven touchdown in 2017 after Eifert got hurt, he hasn’t done much in the way of the passing game. He is an okay blocker, but you could easily find a better one. 

Kroft’s 2017 numbers are actually pretty close with Uzomah’s 2018, but Kroft started every game in 2017. He is a suitable backup tight end based on his red-zone ability, but if it ultimately came down to Cincinnati losing all three of their tight ends or ending up with just Kroft, keeping Kroft is only slightly better.

 

I don't object that much to this analysis. I think his ceiling is a little higher but as I said earlier - to me he is a bottom end starting TE and a high end backup TE. I'm not advocating him as the Bills long sought answer at the position. They clearly want that to be Dawson Knox who is a proper high ceiling prospect. But Kroft is well rounded and does both elements of the job pretty well. The idea is he tides the Bills over while Knox develops. I think he can do that and produce more than Charles Clay did the last two years. That said, the injury hurts, clearly. And maybe Knox grabs the opportunity, starts early, and we never need Kroft to be more than a backup. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

In college, he scored once every 7 touches 

 

I believe I included in my statement “near the line of scrimmage target” while he wasn’t a target so so speak, he had a TD run vs the jags and another vs the jets.  This is part of why he’s more valuable.  They can use him in a variety of ways.  Having great burst and acceleration makes a ball carrier a greater weapon than a ball carrier without it.

 

With th speed they already have at WR, plus Beasely as a true slot weapon, plus at least 2 RB who can catch the ball, I don't think this kids brings something unique enough that Daboll can't scheme for such plays with the guys already on board.

[JerseyBills]

I actually voted Ray Ray just based off the fact we drafted him and he's completely injury free. 

I remember reading a cpl weeks ago that Ray Ray has looked great and much improved. He said the injury last year really effected him harshly , he was limited for the majority of the off season, and that really had a big impact on his game he said ,so hopefully we get the gadget type WR we were expecting. 

 

I still love McKenzie, he brought instant positive energy to the O. He was what Ray Ray was supposed to be last year.

 

Either way, that's some solid competition , especially compared to the competition level last year! McKenzie was a really nice pickup after Den dumped him and I'm excited to see a healthy McCloud, he has real potential based off his time at Clemson

Edited July 1, 2019 by JerseyBills

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

With th speed they already have at WR, plus Beasely as a true slot weapon, plus at least 2 RB who can catch the ball, I don't think this kids brings something unique enough that Daboll can't scheme for such plays with the guys already on board.

Cool.  The thread really has nothing to do with McKenzie.  Strictly Ray Ray and Tim Graham thinking he’s most likely to be the 6th wr kept.  

[Victory Formation]

McKenzie is the perfect backup to Beasley and he had some level of trust with Allen. If Allen continues to trust McKenzie more and more, you may see a bump in his production. If McKenzie makes some plays on STs, he is a definite lock for the 53 man roster. He's a young player with upside, but just old enough as to where he is a veteran player coming into his own. McCloud hasn't shown anything.

[HOUSE]

There were to many options in the poll huh?

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by HOUSE

[Mr. WEO]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Cool.  The thread really has nothing to do with McKenzie.  Strictly Ray Ray and Tim Graham thinking he’s most likely to be the 6th wr kept.  

 

 

Wow.. you better let the OP know so he can change the title and nix the poll!

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Wow.. you better let the OP know so he can change the title and nix the poll!

Seriously?

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Seriously?

 

Yeah

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah

I started the thread.  

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

 I'm excited to see a healthy McCloud, he has real potential based off his time at Clemson

 

McKenzie in his junior year at Georgia before he came out McKenzie had more than double the number of TDs McCloud managed in his entire Clemson career. I watch a fair bit of Clemson and McCloud was just a guy there (albeit as we have seen with Foster it is easy to get lost in the talent shuffle at these major programmes even if you have talent). I'm not writing McCloud off.... but I just think McKenzie is an all round better football player. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

I started the thread.  

 

Thats right.