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Jadeveon Clowney, Gould not attending minicamp

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1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

I think it would be borderline unfair for the Texans to hold the 49ers kicker's contract dispute against Gaine.

I dont know.  People on this board like to blame Beane for Whaleys moves.

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38 minutes ago, TheBeane said:

 

Or.... Imagine getting Clowney for a mid-late 2nd round pick and a player we probably are just going to lose next year in return for 10+ sacks per year for the next 5+ years and adding him to an already awesome looking (on paper) d-line.  Not saying he does one way or another, but have to contemplate amazing upside is there as well.

 

Not to mention, having a respectable pass rush helps all levels on the D.

1.) Why in God's name would Houston accept only a 2nd round pick and bringing in Shaq Lawson, who has done less than nothing, to replace a former 1st overall pick like Clowney?

2.) Clowney has been in the league since 2014 and has never gotten to 10 sacks in a season.  By comparison, Mario had already exceeded 10 sacks twice before coming to Buffalo (in 2007 and 2008) and came close to 10 sacks again in 2009.

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Houston has close to $40M cap space with the tag amount. He must want a deal like Mack.

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10 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

1.) Why in God's name would Houston accept only a 2nd round pick and bringing in Shaq Lawson, who has done less than nothing, to replace a former 1st overall pick like Clowney?

2.) Clowney has been in the league since 2014 and has never gotten to 10 sacks in a season.  By comparison, Mario had already exceeded 10 sacks twice before coming to Buffalo (in 2007 and 2008) and came close to 10 sacks again in 2009.

 

The last 2 seasons have really been the only 2 seasons where Clowney has played the full season (missed 1 game in 2018) and he had 9 & 9.5 sacks.  Not really unrealistic to say that he is starting to peak and could do more.  

 

Much like it is not unrealistic to say that he could decide to get lazy after getting paid.

 

Also why not accept a 2nd and Lawson?  If he doesn't sign his franchise, you have nothing.  This way you have something.

 

Not saying you're wrong and definitely not saying that I'm right, just giving the counter argument.  

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Couldn’t Gould just show up and miss every kick until they cut him?

 

Bears would still take him back!

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45 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I dont know.  People on this board like to blame Beane for Whaleys moves.

I balance that out by blaming Whaley for everything. 

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53 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

1.) Why in God's name would Houston accept only a 2nd round pick and bringing in Shaq Lawson, who has done less than nothing, to replace a former 1st overall pick like Clowney?

Because their alternative is nothing. He has no intention of playing on the franchise tag. Clearly no team has offered a first or Clowney would be gone by now. There aren’t many teams in general who would line up to pay 20 million in cap regardless of the cost. Clowney is not a 20 million player but he will get it, that drives the asking price down. If Clowney was signed for a reasonable deal his price would skyrocket. This isn’t Khalil Mack who is the best defensive player in the league. 

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38 minutes ago, TheBeane said:

 

The last 2 seasons have really been the only 2 seasons where Clowney has played the full season (missed 1 game in 2018) and he had 9 & 9.5 sacks.  Not really unrealistic to say that he is starting to peak and could do more.  

 

Much like it is not unrealistic to say that he could decide to get lazy after getting paid.

 

Also why not accept a 2nd and Lawson?  If he doesn't sign his franchise, you have nothing.  This way you have something.

 

Not saying you're wrong and definitely not saying that I'm right, just giving the counter argument.  

i think most of us Bills fans see a guy who from the outside does not look like he is busting his butt to get better. he is good but not a guy to break the bank on or going to transform our D.

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2 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Imagine giving Houston what could very well be a high 1st or 2nd round pick in 2020, while also watching Clowney turn into another Lazy Mario, once he gets his 100+ million contract.

Lazy Mario had the second best stretch as a DE in Bills history next to Bruce. 

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58 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Lazy Mario had the second best stretch as a DE in Bills history next to Bruce. 

Yeah I think the term lazy is used for Mario when it should be washed up. 

He played really good here, especially the first couple years. His skill set just faded. Happens to all of us. 

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27 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Yeah I think the term lazy is used for Mario when it should be washed up. 

He played really good here, especially the first couple years. His skill set just faded. Happens to all of us. 

He was right about Rex’s crappy system.  But it is crazy how bad he got so quickly.  He was one of the best DEs in the nfl for a few years. 

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17 hours ago, Bills2ref said:

I was just about to post this. What is he expecting pay wise 😂. I was shocked he was tagged in the first place. YOUR A KICKER. 

2nd+Lawson is what I would offer. I feel that’s a very fair return considering the massive contract Clowney would demand. 

 

It will most likely take a Khalil Mack type of trade, Clowney was the #1 pick overall and has produced his past 2 seasons. No way are you getting a premier pass rusher for a 2nd and some mediocre DE, come on man that wouldn't even work on madden. More likely a 1st, 2nd and you have to sign him to a huge contract.

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3 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

It will most likely take a Khalil Mack type of trade, Clowney was the #1 pick overall and has produced his past 2 seasons. No way are you getting a premier pass rusher for a 2nd and some mediocre DE, come on man that wouldn't even work on madden. More likely a 1st, 2nd and you have to sign him to a huge contract.

Beane doesn't trade away first round picks anyway.

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If McBeane thinks that Clowney can complete the D, then you might see something happen.

 

It's a waiting game, obviously.

 

Who blinks first....... Clowney, the Texans, or a trading partner for Houston who will offer them a lot for Clowney (which I personally don't see happening)?

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5 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

It will most likely take a Khalil Mack type of trade, Clowney was the #1 pick overall and has produced his past 2 seasons. No way are you getting a premier pass rusher for a 2nd and some mediocre DE, come on man that wouldn't even work on madden. More likely a 1st, 2nd and you have to sign him to a huge contract.

You know who produced more than Clowney and was traded for a 2nd? Dee Ford. Take Ford’s two non injured years and he produced 10 and 13 sacks. Take Clowneys two best years and he produced 9 and 9.5. Dee Ford also didn’t have the benefit of playing with JJ Watt beside him. Why was Dee traded for only a 2nd? Contract. Khalil Mack is the best defensive player in the NFL, that’s why he set the market for THAT player. He didn’t set it for a defensive end like Clowney though. Dee Ford set that. If the Bills were to give up a first for Clowney I would be very, very disappointed. 

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5 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

It will most likely take a Khalil Mack type of trade, Clowney was the #1 pick overall and has produced his past 2 seasons. No way are you getting a premier pass rusher for a 2nd and some mediocre DE, come on man that wouldn't even work on madden. More likely a 1st, 2nd and you have to sign him to a huge contract.

 

I agree.  I’d look at the Frank Clark trade too:  Seattle got a 1st (#29 in 2019), a 2nd (2020) and a swap of 3rds (#84 for #92) from KC.  Plus Clark got a 5 year, $105.5M contract.

 

I’d expect Clowney’s contract and the draft value to be similar.   I don’t see the Bills making a trade like this at this time, but if they did I think it would be their first that we get it done.

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15 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

You know who produced more than Clowney and was traded for a 2nd? Dee Ford. Take Ford’s two non injured years and he produced 10 and 13 sacks. Take Clowneys two best years and he produced 9 and 9.5. Dee Ford also didn’t have the benefit of playing with JJ Watt beside him. Why was Dee traded for only a 2nd? Contract. Khalil Mack is the best defensive player in the NFL, that’s why he set the market for THAT player. He didn’t set it for a defensive end like Clowney though. Dee Ford set that. If the Bills were to give up a first for Clowney I would be very, very disappointed. 

 

The problem with Ford is that he’s not a very good run defender.  That and the scheme change are why KC paid to swap him out for Clark. 

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36 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I agree.  I’d look at the Frank Clark trade too:  Seattle got a 1st (#29 in 2019), a 2nd (2020) and a swap of 3rds (#84 for #92) from KC.  Plus Clark got a 5 year, $105.5M contract.

 

I’d expect Clowney’s contract and the draft value to be similar.   I don’t see the Bills making a trade like this at this time, but if they did I think it would be their first that we get it done.

If I knew the Bills were picking 29th, I would give it up for Clowney in addition to next years 2nd (which would probably be late as well). 

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49 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

If I knew the Bills were picking 29th, I would give it up for Clowney in addition to next years 2nd (which would probably be late as well). 

 

I agree.  Obviously the uncertainty is the problem and that’s why I don’t see the Bills making such a move.  This seems like the kind of move that could happen as early as next year though, depending on the development of Allen and the team in general.  If Allen proves himself and the team looks like it’s close, then I expect a push to try to put us over the top.  If not, then we are going to need those picks.

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