Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[row_33]

7 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I disagree. A lot of other teams work hard for good majority of the season.Anytime the Leafs get down in a game or have any adversity they fold. 

 

what teams are you watching to ensure they are playing hard the majority of the season?

 

seriously... you have watched 6 teams and roughly 40 games by them this year?  maybe more? 

 

 

sometimes a team can't help it to play hard, but why bother at this point in time?

 

 

[JohnC]

58 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

there is no incentive to push during the regular season, only one team stands in the Leafs way of a playoff spot, Florida, and the Leafs can't seriously improve in the division standings

 

the regular season is a total joke except for:

 

1)  teams struggling to stay in contention; and

 

2) a newly great team feeling its oats and trying to win every game, they soon learn how dumb this is... 

 

 

and look at the Raptors, just stay healthy and show up and win it all

 

 

The problem with Toronto is not the issue of making the playoffs. It relates to their loose style of play that doesn't translate into the tighter and grittier style of playoff hockey. Their previous year's quick departure from the first round reflects that point. The problem with the Leafs is not having enough talent (they have plenty of good players) as it is having the right mix of players that translates into a tougher style of play that is required for success in the playoffs. 

[plenzmd1]

31 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

Making up a hypothetical trade offer does not mean that 1) Florida would be interested, or 2) the Sabres weren't talking to them.  That trade suggests to me that Florida wanted a more immediate return, guys who were close to ready.  They weren't going to want an expiring Larry or Gus.  Haula's only in there as a money dump for Carolina.  I also don't think Buffalo would be interested in moving a first for Trocheck, protection or not.  That deal essentially is summed up as two prospects and a bottom pair d-man for Trocheck.  I really don't know what our equivalent would be.

 

 

I think you can give up on that one.  I'd say that Kreuger has made it very clear that he won't be putting Skinner on Eichel's line.

Not quite sure what you mean as a money dump...are you saying Carolina needed to dump him to make room for Trocheck on the cap? Haula is expiring as well. I think one can look and make up similar scenarios for trading..if you are saying the Sabres could not beat  giving up two prospects( i admit i never see prospects play, so can only go on what i read) and a bottom pair  D-Man to get a 2C that sounds crazy no? I mean the lack of a 2C has been a glaring weakness of this team for two years, and this guy is locked up for two more years. PLus the added benefit of giving you organizational depth to put Cozens and Mitts in positions where they can succeed. 

 

I would have absolutely traded that first( lottery protected), especially as it appears BOTS is all in on trying to make the playoffs this year. Sabres need to win pretty quick, another 2 or 3 years before that first gets here seems like an eternity

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The problem with Toronto is not the issue of making the playoffs. It relates to their loose style of play that doesn't translate into the tighter and grittier style of playoff hockey. Their previous year's quick departure from the first round reflects that point. The problem with the Leafs is not having enough talent (they have plenty of good players) as it is having the right mix of players that translates into a tougher style of play that is required for success in the playoffs. 

 

for those of us in our 40s and 50s we grew up watching the Leafs in that total abortion called the Norris Division for which Ballard cackled getting 4th was the goal and the Leafs got to game 7 of the Quarterfinals of the 85-86 playoffs coming off a (let me confirm it...) 25-48-7 season

 

the only goal right now is staying ahead of Florida, maybe Buffalo and the Habs can pour it on, but they can't pass both the Leafs and Florida now (barring a miracle finish)

 

so we are used to this slackness in Toronto, aside from a handful of seasons....

 

and it's basically unwatchable, i kinda envy you Sabres fans watching closely, I guess there's Leafs fans agonizing on a message board out there

 

 

and it will be eternally appreciated that Sittler and Doug Gilmour left nothing to hold back for all their games in a Leafs uniform, sure ain't nothing like them now out there 

Edited February 24, 2020 by row_33

[plenzmd1]

16 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

edit - BTW, Simmonds had to waive his NTC to come to Buffalo. So he’s obviously on board with the move. 

Damn, prolly would have waived his NTC to get moved to Medicine Hat..anywhere but Jersey!

[row_33]

and....  i didn't expect them to get by the Bruins last year in the playoffs, I don't think they have EVER beaten the Bruins in the 6??? or so series of my watching since 1970... so it wasn't a disappointment

Edited February 24, 2020 by row_33

[snafu]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When Pegula took over as the owner he acted as if he was playing fantasy hockey foolishly throwing around his money. He also made bad hiring decisions that set this franchise back. There was no hope. As with the Bills the new and over eager owner seemed to learned from his mistakes. After firing Murray who set this franchise back he made a good hire in Botterill In my opinion he has prudently and steadily upgraded the roster. So to answer your question under this current GM's operation the trendline has been upward. That is not to say that everything he has done has worked out. His decision to hire Housley didn't work out and how he handled the ROR deal was a very injurious deal. But in general he has done a good job.   

 

The notion that I am too patient makes no sense to me. In order to rebuild properly there was never going to be a quick fix. What makes no sense, and it seems to be a prevailing view, is to associate this GM's tenure with the prior regimes. What has made Botterill's job even more daunting is the necessity to rectify the mistakes that the prior regimes made that had set this franchise further back that it needed to be.  

 

 

Botteril was dealt a bad hand and IMO he has played it poorly.

I like that he's trying to focus on building the team long term through Rochester.  However, his Housley move was a disaster. He's only been able to upgrade the blueline -- and actually over-built it.  He's been terrible at picking up forwards who can compete, and the forward line talent level has actually gone down.  All that being said, I'm split in my mind about whether they should allow him to continue in his current job.  This is mainly because the team is in the process of scrambling to fix the bad Housley decision.  Whatever Botteril's "vision" was when he came to the job had to be drastically altered, and a big part of the fault lies with Botteril.

 

The team isn't "trending up".  It is trending sideways.  It might have been on an upward trend by now if the team plan didn't have to be scrapped and re-written.

 

 

 

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

for those of us in our 40s and 50s we grew up watching the Leafs in that total abortion called the Norris Division for which Ballard cackled getting 4th was the goal and the Leafs got to game 7 of the Quarterfinals of the 85-86 playoffs coming off a (let me confirm it...) 25-48-7 season

 

the only goal right now is staying ahead of Florida, maybe Buffalo and the Habs can pour it on, but they can't pass both the Leafs and Florida now (barring a miracle finish)

 

so we are used to this slackness in Toronto, aside from a handful of seasons....

 

and it's basically unwatchable, i kinda envy you Sabres fans watching closely, I guess there's Leafs fans agonizing on a message board out there

 

 

What I was trying to get at was how a lot of teams turn it up as the playoffs get near. Where as the Leafs don't seem to have another gear. I look at Eichel this season and how he has been carrying the Sabres. You look at the Leafs and I don't see Matthews, Marner or Nylander playing the same. 

[row_33]

1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

What I was trying to get at was how a lot of teams turn it up as the playoffs get near. Where as the Leafs don't seem to have another gear. I look at Eichel this season and how he has been carrying the Sabres. You look at the Leafs and I don't see Matthews, Marner or Nylander playing the same. 

 

all they have to do is stay ahead of Florida

 

they have a boy-wonder analytics guru, i'm sure he has calibrated how much % of a crap they have to give out there...

 

the Leafs have turned on a severe god-like gear when they want to with those two lines, they put it into action for 3 straight games earlier in the New Year

 

just stay ahead of Florida the rest of the way.....

 

i'm not happy, but i understand

 

 

sure not paying $150 to sit in the nosebleeds or give 3 hours watching this

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

for those of us in our 40s and 50s we grew up watching the Leafs in that total abortion called the Norris Division for which Ballard cackled getting 4th was the goal and the Leafs got to game 7 of the Quarterfinals of the 85-86 playoffs coming off a (let me confirm it...) 25-48-7 season

 

the only goal right now is staying ahead of Florida, maybe Buffalo and the Habs can pour it on, but they can't pass both the Leafs and Florida now (barring a miracle finish)

 

so we are used to this slackness in Toronto, aside from a handful of seasons....

 

and it's basically unwatchable, i kinda envy you Sabres fans watching closely, I guess there's Leafs fans agonizing on a message board out there

 

 

I don't believe that the Sabres will make the playoffs, although it is not inconceivable. What's encouraging to me regardless of the record is that the players (limited as they are) seemed to have bought in to what their renaissance man coach is espousing. In general, this team is playing the style of hockey that in the long run will prove to be successful. And that is why I am more encouraged than most of my compatriots here. 

5 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

 

Botteril was dealt a bad hand and IMO he has played it poorly.

I like that he's trying to focus on building the team long term through Rochester.  However, his Housley move was a disaster. He's only been able to upgrade the blueline -- and actually over-built it.  He's been terrible at picking up forwards who can compete, and the forward line talent level has actually gone down.  All that being said, I'm split in my mind about whether they should allow him to continue in his current job.  This is mainly because the team is in the process of scrambling to fix the bad Housley decision.  Whatever Botteril's "vision" was when he came to the job had to be drastically altered, and a big part of the fault lies with Botteril.

 

The team isn't "trending up".  It is trending sideways.  It might have been on an upward trend by now if the team plan didn't have to be scrapped and re-written.

 

 

 

I appreciate your response. However, I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your analysis. Time will tell which view/analysis is more accurate. As it stands I am comfortable with my position as I'm sure you are confident in your position.  

[shrader]

11 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Not quite sure what you mean as a money dump...are you saying Carolina needed to dump him to make room for Trocheck on the cap?

 

Yes.  Haula's only in there to provide some level of balance in terms of cap dollars.  Carolina's pushing the cap with their moves, so they need to send some money out.

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't believe that the Sabres will make the playoffs, although it is not inconceivable. What's encouraging to me regardless of the record is that the players (limited as they are) seemed to have bought in to what their renaissance man coach is espousing. In general, this team is playing the style of hockey that in the long run will prove to be successful. And that is why I am more encouraged than most of my compatriots here. 

 

that 3rd spot in the division will be well below the normal points requirement for a playoff spot

 

i hope the Sabres or Habs can put pressure on Florida and the fatcat loafing Leafs down the stretch

 

congrats on having a team that tries it heart out there most nights, sorry it isn't working just yet, it's better than cheering for the Leafs this season

 

[eball]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

--------------------------

 

the Habs and Sabres have to go on a tear to get to around 10 more wins than losses and KEEP playing at an incredible level the rest of the way

 

if you fall out of the playoff picture it is almost impossible to get back in it considering that extra point handed to a team that coasts to a regulation tie, and all the imbalance in the schedule with the East playing the East

 

so if you win you tread water, and maybe gain a little and if you lose you plummet

 

the key is to play decent hockey and be around 10 wins over losses at this stage and pick your moments

 

wish it was fairer than that, but that's what the NHL and fans love

 

 

So are the Sabres in the playoff picture?  6 pts behind Toronto for 3rd in the division with a game in hand and 20 to play.  If the Sabres go 10-5-5 and the Leafs play a hair under .500 the Sabres overtake them.

[ChevyVanMiller]

 

 

John Wawrow

·

2m

 

The #Sabres are planning to trade Evan Rodrigues before the deadline, per source with knowledge of discussions to The AP

[row_33]

15 minutes ago, eball said:

 

So are the Sabres in the playoff picture?  6 pts behind Toronto for 3rd in the division with a game in hand and 20 to play.  If the Sabres go 10-5-5 and the Leafs play a hair under .500 the Sabres overtake them.

 

looking at the standings, for sure they have a shot

 

but they have to climb over BOTH  Florida and the Leafs, making it a LOT HARDER than just chasing one of them

 

both Florida and the Leafs aren't (probably) going to crater.... 

 

i'm cheering for the Habs and Sabres to make it interesting, might even watch and cheer them on

 

and the NHL has this crunked-up system where 3 points might be handed out against a team struggling into contention every game, and East plays East as well mostly making it harder

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[row_33]

-------------------------------------

 

you really think the Sabres can finish off 10-5-5?  all due respect but.....

[BillsFan4]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I like this trade. He’s a young (24yr old) center (that can play all 3 forward positions) on the last year of his ELC (so 4 years of team control left after this season). He slots into our middle 6 right now and still has some upside left. 

 

And he as acquired for a UFA we weren’t re-signing and a ‘meh’ player who requested a trade. There is almost no risk here for Buffalo and some nice potential reward. 

 

Props to Botteill. This is a nice move IMO.

Edited February 24, 2020 by BillsFan4

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

I like this trade. He’s a young (24yr old) center on the last year of his ELC (so 4 years of team control left after this season). He slots into our middle 6 right now and still has some upside left. 

 

And he as acquired for a UFA we weren’t re-signing and a ‘meh’ player who requested a trade. There is almost no risk here for Buffalo and some nice potential reward. 

 

Props to Botteill. This is a nice move IMO.

So far the announced deals are marginal deals that won't help or hurt us much this season. For me, that's a good thing. It appears that the GM is keeping players such as Risto and Montour and not being forced to deal players because there is pressure to make a change for the sake of making a change for a floundering team. I'm not against making bigger deals per se. But I believe that the offseason is the better time to make these more substantial deals. Maybe this current good run has taken some of the pressure/urgency to take an action for the sake of taking an action? 

 

I have become more convinced after watching Risto play this season that he is an important piece to this team's roster puzzle. And it is evident that the renaissance HC feels the same way. 

[plenzmd1]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I like this trade. He’s a young (24yr old) center (that can play all 3 forward positions) on the last year of his ELC (so 4 years of team control left after this season). He slots into our middle 6 right now and still has some upside left. 

 

And he as acquired for a UFA we weren’t re-signing and a ‘meh’ player who requested a trade. There is almost no risk here for Buffalo and some nice potential reward. 

 

Props to Botteill. This is a nice move IMO.

I dont know this Kuhan at all, hope he can help.  But I am sure Sheary is happy to be going back to Pittsburgh.

[4merper4mer]

Just now, JohnC said:

So far the announced deals are marginal deals that won't help or hurt us much this season. For me, that's a good thing. It appears that the GM is keeping players such as Risto and Montour and not being forced to deal players because there is pressure to make a change for the sake of making a change for a floundering team. I'm not against making bigger deals per se. But I believe that the offseason is the better time to make these more substantial deals. Maybe this current good run has taken some of the pressure/urgency to take an action for the sake of taking an action? 

 

I have become more convinced after watching Risto play this season that he is an important piece to this team's roster puzzle. And it is evident that the renaissance HC feels the same way. 

Didn't you say we could judge the Scandella trade once we knew what Montreal got for him?  How's it look now?

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, row_33 said:

-------------------------------------

 

you really think the Sabres can finish off 10-5-5?  all due respect but.....

They might not have to be that good. The way the Leafs are playing they will be lucky to finish .500. They are near the bottom of the league in goals against. Florida is right behind them so the Sabres and the Habs do have a shot. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

I dont know this Kuhan at all, hope he can help.  But I am sure Sheary is happy to be going back to Pittsburgh.

Listening to WGR, they said he has had a good year, plays on left wing with malkin, dealt with some injury, an “invested” type of player 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

They might not have to be that good. The way the Leafs are playing they will be lucky to finish .500. They are near the bottom of the league in goals against. Florida is right behind them so the Sabres and the Habs do have a shot. 

 

Leafs just don't want to turn on the switch, 2 points ahead of Florida give them comfort

 

same as it always was with this team aside from the years that Sittler and Gilmour were on the ice...

 

 

[Jauronimo]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Listening to WGR, they said he has had a good year, plays on left wing with malkin, dealt with some injury, an “invested” type of player 

If notched 10 goals paired with bums like Malkin his game will take off surrounded by real talent like Vesey and Lazar.  The sky is the limit for the Big Kahuna! 

 

EDIT:  Just saw that Big Kahuna was the 23rd runner up for the Lady Byng last year so we know hes not the biggest ***** in the league.  I like this deal more and more!!!

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jauronimo

[eball]

24 minutes ago, row_33 said:

-------------------------------------

 

you really think the Sabres can finish off 10-5-5?  all due respect but.....

 

It's .500 hockey.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It's .500 hockey.

More like .625 hockey in a league where accumulated points are what matters most. 

[plenzmd1]

7 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It's .500 hockey.

I think they are toast based on their schedule vs what the Leafs have left...but i will be hoping and praying that they keep it close so the games mean something and i have an excuse to drink beers on the porch!. But as of right now, i say they have less than 2% chance to make it.

 

@YoloinOhio, Pitt stat geeks and writers seem divided on Kuhan...sounds like a good chance to take for two pieces that were not going to be here next year

[shrader]

I don't know a thing about Kahun, but the numbers look intriguing.  On top of that, they took two players they didn't want anymore and turned it into a guy who they have control of for a couple years.  I'm happy with that much.

[shrader]

Given the second trade, I know look at the Simmonds deal as the team giving him a low price tryout to see if he has anything left for the future.

[snafu]

30 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

They might not have to be that good. The way the Leafs are playing they will be lucky to finish .500. They are near the bottom of the league in goals against. Florida is right behind them so the Sabres and the Habs do have a shot. 

 

I wish you're right, but we don't have the goaltending to pull it off.

 

[snafu]

23 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It's .500 hockey.

 

They're 11-8-1 over their last 20 games.

So, hey, maybe they keep it close.  They still have to jump two teams.  Nearly impossible.

 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, snafu said:

 

I wish you're right, but we don't have the goaltending to pull it off.

 

Unfortunately, that’s true. Which is a shame, because we can deny shot opportunities when we have to. I mean the Peg went the final 9+ minutes without a shot on goal yesterday. Ralph shortened the hell out of his bench to do it, but we are capable nonetheless. Too bad our goaltending is so suspect. 

[BillsFan4]

Looks pretty good. It’s only his 2nd NHL season too. I am definitely intrigued by Kahun. 

I think we got the best player in the deal, and I love that they traded a UFA and an RFA with an expensive qualifying offer, who weren’t in their plans for a promising young forward. Bonus that they sent out like $5M in cap and Kahun is making $925k (plus any bonuses he hits).

Edited February 24, 2020 by BillsFan4

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

Looks pretty good. It’s only his 2nd NHL season too. I am definitely intrigued by Kahun. 

I think we got the best player in the deal, and I love that they traded 2 UFA’s who weren’t in their plans for a promising young forward. Bonus that they sent out like $5M in cap and Kahun is making $925k (plus any bonuses he hits).

i was reading on Twitter somehere, will try to find it, that cap savings is important relative to the bonus payouts for Dahlin, Goalfson and someone else. Seems like BOTS freed up enough room to pay with this years cap money and not have to do with next years...so credit where credit is due..good job Bots

[snafu]

47 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If notched 10 goals paired with bums like Malkin his game will take off surrounded by real talent like Vesey and Lazar.  The sky is the limit for the Big Kahuna! 

 

Point taken.

And we shall see who Rodriguez gets paired with so he can blossom into a goal scoring magician.

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Kahun - Simmonds

Vesey - Lazar - Johannson

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Looks pretty good. It’s only his 2nd NHL season too. I am definitely intrigued by Kahun. 

I think we got the best player in the deal, and I love that they traded a UFA and an RFA with an expensive qualifying offer, who weren’t in their plans for a promising young forward. Bonus that they sent out like $5M in cap and Kahun is making $925k (plus any bonuses he hits).

If Kahun does anything more than just skate up and down the ice during a game, we will have gotten the best player in the trade. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

If Kahun does anything more than just skate up and down the ice during a game, we will have gotten the best player in the trade. 

If he only ***** his pants in half of his scoring opportunities and doesn't look like an oversized man child who still eats chapstick, licks windows, and cuts his own hair he will be an immediate upgrade over ERod.  

[shrader]

36 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

i was reading on Twitter somehere, will try to find it, that cap savings is important relative to the bonus payouts for Dahlin, Goalfson and someone else. Seems like BOTS freed up enough room to pay with this years cap money and not have to do with next years...so credit where credit is due..good job Bots

 

They must be at a comfortable number because they don't take on even half of Simmonds contract if there was too much of a concern in that department.