Simms Top 5 WR (draft prospects)

[Allen2Moulds]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Oh that? Lol. That’s hilarious that’s what your basing an argument on. Where were some of the losers on that list? Where were other guys that didn’t make that list but are incredible or at least very good now. Guys like Jeffery, Evans, Jackson, Fitzgerald. 

 

Theres no guarantee that just because he’s big and fast, that he’ll be good in the league. 

 

Hell, there’s no guarantee that he doesn’t re-injure his neck again after the first hit that he takes in training camp. 

 

I keep having to say it. I don’t dislike him. His potential isn’t just through the roof. There isn’t a roof with him. He could be the most dominant WR to ever play the game. If the Bills take him, I hope he becomes just that. I just wouldn’t bet on that happening. 

I was only pointing out the correlation. Not saying this is why he'll be successful.  In addition to speed and size,  you still have to be able to know how to play the game of football,  which I believe he does.  I also agree with those who say his skill set matches Allen's. Last couple things I would say that gets talked about,  is that he's a really good kid, with a strong work ethic, who comes from a football family.  

[glazeduck]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it will either. To be honest I am not convinced they will take a receiver in day 1 or day 2 unless someone really falls (like if Harry was there when they pick in the third). 

This wouldn't surprise me, but would also be disappointing... I know "good enough" is never good enough, but I think our defense, as is, really is good enough to keep us competitive...

 

JA needs weapons. Beasley is a nice add and I like Smokey Brown, but the jury is still very much out on Zay and, while he had an impressive second half to his year, I worry that some of Foster's success was a function of teams: a) making Allen beat them deep; and b) not having much of a scouting report on him/underestimating him as a player.

 

Another way to say the above: I think adding a defensive piece or two could take us from, say a B+ to maybe an A-... Adding someone like DK and Irv Smith could take our offense from C+/B- to potentially a B+/A- range... I like the larger bump, personally...

[mrags]

16 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I was only pointing out the correlation. Not saying this is why he'll be successful.  In addition to speed and size,  you still have to be able to know how to play the game of football,  which I believe he does.  I also agree with those who say his skill set matches Allen's. Last couple things I would say that gets talked about,  is that he's a really good kid, with a strong work ethic, who comes from a football family.  

Coming from a football family means the most to me when it comes to Metcalf. He has the pedigree and it shouldn’t be forgotten. I still worry about his injury issues. His lack of production. His lack of any sort of route tree. 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

23 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

My #1 WR by far is Marquise Brown.

 

1000000 times better than DK

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

 

1000000 times better than DK

 

Based on big 12 defenses ?     

 

Yikes 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Based on big 12 defenses ?     

 

Yikes 

 

Based on production and skill.

 

So based off your comment you would've hated drafting Khalil Mack because he dominated the MAC? You wouldn't like Andrew Luck cuz he dominated the great Pac-10? I could care less what conference you play in.

 

 

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

15 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

 

Based on production and skill.

 

So based off your comment you would've hated drafting Khalil Mack because he dominated the MAC? You wouldn't like Andrew Luck cuz he dominated the great Pac-10? I could care less what conference you play in.

 

 

 

 

 

166 pounds = pass 

 

Draft a man 

 

[glazeduck]

12 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

 

Based on production and skill.

 

So based off your comment you would've hated drafting Khalil Mack because he dominated the MAC? You wouldn't like Andrew Luck cuz he dominated the great Pac-10? I could care less what conference you play in.

 

 

 

 

Except there's statistical precedent here...

 

Of the top 30 all-time leaders in passing yards, you can argue that 3 QBs have "made it" from the Big 12 (and that's including Sam Bradford).

Of the top 25 all-time leaders in receiving yards, the best pro is... Wes Welker? Michael Crabtree? Roy Williams? Far from a star-studded list.

 

You can certainly pick out exceptions to the rule, but that doesn't make the rule wrong. The Big 12 doesn't play a lot of defense.

 

I like Brown as a player, but between his size -- not that he can't win a jump ball -- I'm afraid he's going to get destroyed by NFL safeties, and the play style redundancy for the Bills, I'm hoping we pass on him too.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it will either. To be honest I am not convinced they will take a receiver in day 1 or day 2 unless someone really falls (like if Harry was there when they pick in the third). 

 

Personally, I think there is almost no chance Harry falls to the third, I don't even think its likely he lasts to our #40 pick.  But if by some unforeseen craziness we got Harry in the 3rd I think I would piss myself in excitement.  

 

I can see the draft falling a lot of ways right now for the Bills, so hard to say which.  One thing I am confident though, is that one of our first 3 picks will be a weapon for Josh.  That could be TE or WR...or both.  

 

Personally, it wont shock me to see them take DK or even TJ at 9.  But lets say they went DT/OL/EDGE at 9, then I think they will trade up back into the first to land someone like Harry or maybe Hockenson/Fant.  

 

I don't try and focus on mocks or popular opinion, I try and focus on what I know of the GM.  Like last year when everyone said I was crazy when I kept saying only 2 QB's were going top 5 and that neither Giants or Broncos would take a QB.  I wasn't saying they should not (I thought they absolutely should have gone QB), but I didn't believe they would based on the information we had about them.  

 

And what I know of Beane right now is that all indications is that he wants to get Josh an impact player on offense.  We got some nice complimentary pieces, but I dont think even the most optimist person can look at our WR group and TE group and confidently say there is that type of guy on this team right now.  That could be in the form of a TE or a WR like I said (or both) and I fully expect Beane to be aggressive in rounds 1 through 3 in this regard.

 

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody in this draft.

 

I just don't know how you can say that with any confidence.  This is one of the best WR classes of the last decade.  There are several guys in this group that have the potential to be top 10 WR's in the NFL.  Its a very deep class too.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Pete]

I like DK and Harry for the Bills.  If not them, I would wait until 4th/5th for Lodge or AJ

[suorangefan4]

Andy Isabella has near elite athleticism (4.31 forty, 6.95 3-cone)  and production.

 

He led the nation in receiving yards by a wide margin. He had 15 catches for 219 yards and 2 TDs against Georgia.

 

White wide receivers always seem to be really underdrafted though. Funny how the the league and analysts never cry about how white positional players always get disrespected.

Edited April 11, 2019 by suorangefan4

[Allen2Moulds]

11 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

Andy Isabella has near elite athleticism (4.31 forty, 6.95 3-cone)  and production.

 

He led the nation in receiving yards by a wide margin. He had 15 catches for 219 yards and 2 TDs against Georgia.

 

White wide receivers always seem to be really underdrafted though. Funny how the the league and analysts never cry about how white positional players always get disrespected.

I would rather take Isabella in the 3rd, than Hollywood Brown in the 1st or 2nd.

[suorangefan4]

11 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I would rather take Isabella in the 3rd, than Hollywood Brown in the 1st or 2nd.

 

Easily. Isabella based off tests and production should be the first WR off the board.

[glazeduck]

45 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

White wide receivers always seem to be really underdrafted though. Funny how the the league and analysts never cry about how white positional players always get disrespected.

 

?Yeah, white people have had it soooooo hard... 

[suorangefan4]

25 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

 

?Yeah, white people have had it soooooo hard... 

 

It's funny how white people created football (and pretty much every other sport) just like they create most things... yet they only make up a small percentage of football and basketball yet people still cry there aren't enough black QBs or coaches. No complaints at the lack of white players at every position though.

 

Isabella is super athletic and productive yet gets put behind black WRs with much worse production and combine numbers.

 

Weird how there's so many minorities who are millionaires in America thanks to things white people created yet they still act like you. There's far better opportunities here for minorities than there are in Arican countries that's for sure. But go ahead keep on with your hatred of whitey.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by suorangefan4

[glazeduck]

15 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

It's funny how white people created football (and pretty much every other sport) just like they create most things... yet they only make up a small percentage of football and basketball yet people still cry there aren't enough black QBs or coaches. No complaints at the lack of white players at every position though.

 

Isabella is super athletic and productive yet gets put behind black WRs with much worse production and combine numbers.

 

Weird how there's so many minorities who are millionaires in America thanks to things white people created yet they still act like you. There's far better opportunities here for minorities than there are in Arican countries that's for sure. But go ahead keep on with your hatred of whitey.

 

 

Boy, someone doesn't bother with subtext, does he? 

 

Ignoring your ignorance, and flat-out racism, there's faaaaar too much on the line for coaches and GMs to play racial favorites. Andy Isabella being below "black WRs with much worse production and combine numbers" has more to do with his size and lack of competition than it does with his skin color. 

 

But I'm sure you'd be fighting just as hard for his draft status if he were black...

Edited April 11, 2019 by glazeduck

[mannc]

1 minute ago, glazeduck said:

Boy, someone doesn't bother with subtext, does he? 

 

Ignoring your ignorance, bordering on flat-out racism, there's faaaaar too much on the line for coaches and GMs to play racial favorites. Andy Isabella being below "black WRs with much worse production and combine numbers" has more to do with his size and lack of competition than it does with his skin color. 

 

But I'm sure you'd be fighting just as hard for his draft status if he were black...

Bordering?

[glazeduck]

Just now, mannc said:

Bordering?

You're right. Figured I'd give him a little benefit of the doubt, but on rereading his post... there's nothing bordering about it. 

[Putin]

15 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Yes cause the league is such a run heavy league. Fact is he had 53 tackles for loss and 13.5 sacks in 32 games. Per game he avg more tackles for loss than Donald in college and .2 sacks fewer. Oliver is a rare talent, you don’t find linemen, let alone interior linemen that explosive at 280 pounds 

If we do take him I hope your right ! 

But don’t forget Donald played in SEC 

 

[suorangefan4]

18 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

Boy, someone doesn't bother with subtext, does he? 

 

Ignoring your ignorance, bordering on flat-out racism, there's faaaaar too much on the line for coaches and GMs to play racial favorites. Andy Isabella being below "black WRs with much worse production and combine numbers" has more to do with his size and lack of competition than it does with his skin color. 

 

But I'm sure you'd be fighting just as hard for his draft status if he were black...

 

You're the one being racist towards white people.

 

People like you blame white people for everything. Because you're a racist.

 

You saying I'm fighting for Isabella because he's white is funny. No I'm pointing out how he has by far the best numbers of any WR yet he's not even top 5 somehow. So explain to me why he's not.

 

And you saying a white person is biased towards white players is even more funny and racist. Wanna try something? Let's ask white people who their favorite sports player is, then let's ask black people the same question. You'll find that a lot of white people have a favorite player who's black. The same isn't true the other way around. It's the same way with music. White people listen to a ton of rap. Hardly any black people listen to any rock or any white musicians. But yeah again white people are the racists huh? 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by suorangefan4

[glazeduck]

Just now, suorangefan4 said:

 

You're the one being racist towards white people.

 

So explain to me why Isabella isn't the top receiver with his insane production and athleticism. Or why a lot of white wide receivers are way underdrafted.

 

 

First of all, I'm as white as they come, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. Second of all, who are all of these "a lot of white wide receivers" that are being "way underdrafted"????  The most successful contemporary white WRs are...

• Eric Decker -- was coming off of a devastating injury
• Wes Welker -- tiny, played in what was considered a gimmicky offense in a conference that doesn't play defense
• Jordy Nelson -- early 2nd round pick -- far from underdrafted
• Julian Edelman? -- transitioning from playing QB
• Chris Hogan? -- dude was a lacrosse player

Curious to know who all of these brilliant white football players are that you're referring to who were so devastatingly insulted in the draft... 

[Mat68]

Mccaffery was a top 5 pick at Rb.  

[suorangefan4]

Just now, glazeduck said:

First of all, I'm as white as they come, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. Second of all, who are all of these "a lot of white wide receivers" that are being "way underdrafted"????  The most successful contemporary white WRs are...

• Eric Decker -- was coming off of a devastating injury
• Wes Welker -- tiny, played in what was considered a gimmicky offense in a conference that doesn't play defense
• Jordy Nelson -- early 2nd round pick -- far from underdrafted
• Julian Edelman? -- transitioning from playing QB
• Chris Hogan? -- dude was a lacrosse player

Curious to know who all of these brilliant white football players are that you're referring to who were so devastatingly insulted in the draft... 

 

What does you being white have to do with it? A lot of liberals are self-loathing white hating racists. You can be racist against your own skin color. And most far left people like you are just that.

 

Sounds like you're just making excuses as to why those receivers weren't drafted high. Adam Thielen is another. Yeah I know Mankato University. Great build, good speed, 6.77s 3-cone time. Doesn't get drafted. Quickly becomes one of the best receivers in the league. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Mccaffery was a top 5 pick at Rb.  

 

That's an anomaly. Doesn't happen often.

 

I remember a ton of people crapping all over the pick too (hell the majority of football fans and analysts were). Now he's one of the top all around backs in the league.

[mannc]

25 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

You're right. Figured I'd give him a little benefit of the doubt, but on rereading his post... there's nothing bordering about it. 

Well, his next post removed all doubt...

[suorangefan4]

43 minutes ago, mannc said:

Well, his next post removed all doubt...

 

Yeah me pointing out that black people generally like black players way more than white people like white players "removes all doubt". When he says I like Andy Isabella because he's white that's OK.  Left wing logic.

 

And when you call white people biased, nazis etc. that doesn't make you racist huh?

 

You need to look in the mirror because your hatred of white people is deep.

Edited April 11, 2019 by suorangefan4

[mannc]

1 minute ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Yeah me pointing out that black people generally like black players way more than white people like white players "removes all doubt".

 

But when you call white people biased, nazis etc. that doesn't make you racist huh? Left wing logic. You need to look in the mirror because your hatred of white people is deep.

I think you should exercise your constitutional right to stop posting ignorant garbage .

[suorangefan4]

Just now, mannc said:

I think you should exercise your constitutional right to stop posting ignorant garbage .

 

I just proved that you're the ignorant one.

 

Him calling me biased for "fighting for" Andy Isabella because he's white is no problem

Me doing the same thing he did and saying black people generally have a favorite player that's black is racist though

 

The fact you can't see how ignorant that makes you shows what type of person you are.

[mrags]

3 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I would rather take Isabella in the 3rd, than Hollywood Brown in the 1st or 2nd.

 

3 hours ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Easily. Isabella based off tests and production should be the first WR off the board.

With all the other talk on this topic surrounding Isabella. He’s not being looked over because he’s White. He’s being looked over because  he’s listed at 5’9”, 188lbs, and has a short wingspan. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/andy-isabella?id=32194953-4156-2722-bf26-62181351a224

 

and because UMass plays against Shlubs that are not NFL qualify opponents. 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Personally, I think there is almost no chance Harry falls to the third, I don't even think its likely he lasts to our #40 pick.  But if by some unforeseen craziness we got Harry in the 3rd I think I would piss myself in excitement.  

 

I can see the draft falling a lot of ways right now for the Bills, so hard to say which.  One thing I am confident though, is that one of our first 3 picks will be a weapon for Josh.  That could be TE or WR...or both.  

 

Personally, it wont shock me to see them take DK or even TJ at 9.  But lets say they went DT/OL/EDGE at 9, then I think they will trade up back into the first to land someone like Harry or maybe Hockenson/Fant.  

 

I don't try and focus on mocks or popular opinion, I try and focus on what I know of the GM.  Like last year when everyone said I was crazy when I kept saying only 2 QB's were going top 5 and that neither Giants or Broncos would take a QB.  I wasn't saying they should not (I thought they absolutely should have gone QB), but I didn't believe they would based on the information we had about them.  

 

And what I know of Beane right now is that all indications is that he wants to get Josh an impact player on offense.  We got some nice complimentary pieces, but I dont think even the most optimist person can look at our WR group and TE group and confidently say there is that type of guy on this team right now.  That could be in the form of a TE or a WR like I said (or both) and I fully expect Beane to be aggressive in rounds 1 through 3 in this regard.

 

 

I just don't know how you can say that with any confidence.  This is one of the best WR classes of the last decade.  There are several guys in this group that have the potential to be top 10 WR's in the NFL.  Its a very deep class too.

 

Well I didn't think the Giants or the Broncos were picking a Quarterback either. 

 

I think what we know of Beane is he is committed to building this for the long term. If he feels like an impact receiver or tight end is there that makes sense he will take him but I don't see him forcing it. 

 

Where I agree with you on this receiver class is that I think it is deep. I just don't think, as you do, there are potential top end receivers here.... bar DK who definitely has that potential but has a lot to improve on to get there and is a significant risk as high as I think he will go. I think this is a class where you may well end up with 10 good, starting NFL receivers.... but they, in my opinion, will be mainly 2s and 3s. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

What does you being white have to do with it? A lot of liberals are self-loathing white hating racists. You can be racist against your own skin color. And most far left people like you are just that.

 

Sounds like you're just making excuses as to why those receivers weren't drafted high. Adam Thielen is another. Yeah I know Mankato University. Great build, good speed, 6.77s 3-cone time. Doesn't get drafted. Quickly becomes one of the best receivers in the league. 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone here gives a ***** about your political opinions, and if we did, we wouldn't come to twobillsdrive to hear it. Keep it about football and when you want to say something angry and stupid, take a few breaths and maybe go jogging or something. Your first paragraph here in NO WAY belongs on this site.

 

And yeah, probably same could be said of Glazeduck, but he's keeping things a bit closer to propriety.

[DCOrange]

6 hours ago, mrags said:

 

With all the other talk on this topic surrounding Isabella. He’s not being looked over because he’s White. He’s being looked over because  he’s listed at 5’9”, 188lbs, and has a short wingspan. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/andy-isabella?id=32194953-4156-2722-bf26-62181351a224

 

and because UMass plays against Shlubs that are not NFL qualify opponents. 

 

 

 

To be fair, that still makes him bigger than Hollywood Brown, who some still believe will be the first WR taken in the draft.

 

And if you focus on just Isabella's games against what most would consider to be good competition (and let's not get it twisted, everyone has cupcakes on their schedules; just not as much as UMass due to their conference), you're left with 13 games, which is perfect because that's roughly how many games a college player generally plays in a season so you can get a gauge of what Isabella's numbers would have been if he only played against solid competition.

 

In those 13 games, Isabella put up 82 receptions for 1,182 yards and 6 TDs while also adding 130 rushing yards; which would put him right up there with almost all of the other WRs in this class (and this collection of 13 games is probably stronger than most of these guys face in a given year).

 

The list of opponents is below:

Florida

Boston College x2

Mississippi State x2

South Carolina

Temple

Tennessee

Appalachian State

Florida International x2

South Florida

Georgia

 

Having said all that, just because he put up good numbers in college doesn't necessarily mean he'll do the same in the NFL, but he has the physical skills to be good, has the production that would suggest he might be good, and other WRs that are just as small or smaller are considered among the best WR prospects in the class as well.

[Chandler#81]

?Train kept a-rollin’ all night long

I said Heave! Ho!