John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Did you look to find out? If you'd have bet that you'd have lost. Ertz, a TE, was his top receiver. Jordan Matthews was his only other WR worthy of note. All in all Allen had more options. Tasker Why do you continue to put up crap When you have someone that can be considered a "top receiver" be it TE or WR....the fact is you did have a guy quality enough to be a go to guy....of which the bills had NONE BECAUSE THEY KEPT DROPPING BALLS THAT HIT THEM RIGHT IN THE HANDS Ertz (and Jordan Mathews) were better then ANYTHING we had..... Period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Did you look to find out? If you'd have bet that you'd have lost. Ertz, a TE, was his top receiver. Jordan Matthews was his only other WR worthy of note. All in all Allen had more options. this has to win the award as the dumbest statement of the day. am I right, people? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Overall Wentz had 33 sacks on 640 dropbacks. (5.2%) Allen had 28 sacks on 348 dropbacks. (8.0%) Bledsoe career: 6.4%, w/ Bills 8.4%. That's problematic for a QB that's so mobile, big, strong, and athletic. Wentz was a lot more consistent in his play in his rookie season. Allen had no consistency in his passing game other than to say he was consistent against Miami. Keep in mind that Wentz had absolutely none of Allen's mobility or rushing ability and a fraction of his athleticism. FWIW First off, Wentz not having Allen's mobility and athletic ability is a negative for Wentz. Not Allen. Not sure why you bring it up. Allen's sack % improved greatly over his final six games. But I guess that is because he played Miami twice in your opinion and we should expect him to have a sack% over 6% again next year? Allen improved as his rookie season went on. Wentz regressed from him first four games. That's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 So is @TaskersGhost another one of the "I-hate-the-Josh-Allen-draft-pick-because-completion-percentage-blah-blah-blah" crowd? Or is he just blind? Anybody who looks at the 2016 Philly offense and 2018 Buffalo offense and concludes Josh Allen had a better line and better options needs an optometrist. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 If this is true, then I fully expect Matt Barkley to be our Super Bowl winning MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 God I hate it when this board has an ol' fashioned "stats-off" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Looks good at the surface, doesn't it. Here's some additional info however. Allen put up half of his TDs in two games against a divisional opponent, he was pretty bad otherwise. You can look at the game logs. Miami was that team. A tale of two QBs in terms of passing. Very good rookie numbers in two games against Miami. 75 YPG less passing on average in the other 10 games, only 5 TDs to 9 INTs in the other ten games, which compares poorly to Wentz. Only 4 of Allen's 10 TDs (40%) were in the Red Zone. Three of those four were vs. Miami, only 1 RZ TD otherwise. 12 of Wentz's 16 (75%) were in the Red Zone. Wentz gave up 3 sacks in 89 attempts in the Red Zone. Allen gave up 3 sacks in 29 attempts. Bledsoe territory. Wentz Yards-per-Game 236 Allen Yards-per-Game 173, ... 162 YPG in ten games not vs. Miami Overall Wentz had 33 sacks on 640 dropbacks. (5.2%) Allen had 28 sacks on 348 dropbacks. (8.0%) Bledsoe career: 6.4%, w/ Bills 8.4%. That's problematic for a QB that's so mobile, big, strong, and athletic. Wentz was a lot more consistent in his play in his rookie season. Allen had no consistency in his passing game other than to say he was consistent against Miami. Keep in mind that Wentz had absolutely none of Allen's mobility or rushing ability and a fraction of his athleticism. FWIW This post has so much wrong with it that I don't know where to begin. So I am just gonna move on like I didn't see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, billsfan5121 said: So what set of games can we remove from Wentz’s rookie year to make this comparable? Perhaps his two best games? Sure, if you can find two against a singular opponent. But hey, since it's probably too much for you to do I'll take 30 seconds to do it for you. Here are the numbers with his two best games removed, neither against a divisional opponent and both against playoff teams one of which lost to NE in the CCG: .. 12 TDS, 13 INTs, all of the other data remains relatively the same. In short narly 1 TD/game to Allen's 1/2 TD/game. Edited March 27, 2019 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: this has to win the award as the dumbest statement of the day. am I right, people? Its early....Ghost might post more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Looks good at the surface, doesn't it. Here's some additional info however. Allen put up half of his TDs in two games against a divisional opponent, he was pretty bad otherwise. You can look at the game logs. Miami was that team. A tale of two QBs in terms of passing. Very good rookie numbers in two games against Miami. 75 YPG less passing on average in the other 10 games, only 5 TDs to 9 INTs in the other ten games, which compares poorly to Wentz. Only 4 of Allen's 10 TDs (40%) were in the Red Zone. Three of those four were vs. Miami, only 1 RZ TD otherwise. 12 of Wentz's 16 (75%) were in the Red Zone. Wentz gave up 3 sacks in 89 attempts in the Red Zone. Allen gave up 3 sacks in 29 attempts. Bledsoe territory. Wentz Yards-per-Game 236 Allen Yards-per-Game 173, ... 162 YPG in ten games not vs. Miami Overall Wentz had 33 sacks on 640 dropbacks. (5.2%) Allen had 28 sacks on 348 dropbacks. (8.0%) Bledsoe career: 6.4%, w/ Bills 8.4%. That's problematic for a QB that's so mobile, big, strong, and athletic. Wentz was a lot more consistent in his play in his rookie season. Allen had no consistency in his passing game other than to say he was consistent against Miami. Keep in mind that Wentz had absolutely none of Allen's mobility or rushing ability and a fraction of his athleticism. FWIW Wentz also had at least two competent receivers and a much better OL. But we'll not take that into account, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: This post has so much wrong with it that I don't know where to begin. So I am just gonna move on like I didn't see it. I particularly enjoyed how much emphasis he put on red zone TDs (???) and sack percentage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I particularly enjoyed how much emphasis he put on red zone TDs (???) and sack percentage. I hear one of the rule changes put up for a vote at the owners meeting was to make td's outside the redzone worth only 4 pts. THANKFULLY for allen it didn't pass. he would have been friggin' SCREWED! Edited March 27, 2019 by Stank_Nasty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, eball said: Seems you only semi-answered half of the question, and did a poor job at that. I think Philly had Jason Peters at LT, right? Jason Kelce at C made the Pro Bowl. Darren Sproles made the Pro Bowl. C'mon, dude, don't be lazy. And "all in all" Jordan Matthews/Zach Ertz by themselves are better options than what Allen had. Try harder. Lazy .... LOL How many passes did Peters and Kelce make? Sproles was a RB, Allen doesn't utilize RBs in the passing game, that's part of the major issue here. If he had he would have made more than 38 passes, or fewer than 4/game to them. In other old hate news, Allen had more Time-to-Throw, which is a measure of how quickly a passer releases a pass, than ANY other QB in the entire league, by a country mile relatively speaking, according to NFL.com's Next Gen Stats. You did know that after looking at that and consider that, right? Right? Additionally, despite the narrative Allen was around average in protection time by the line. So this notion that he had the worst pass-proteting line in the league or even close is also a false narrative. Queue the excuses. Anything else? 34 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: how about we keep in mind that wentz also had a probowler at center and LT as well..... your statements "look good on the surface" Just throwin' some additional info out there. Everyone seems to think that it's irrelevant. So be it. It's hardly for me to decide for everyone. I would suggest that an astute observer that wasn't more concerned about laying out excuses to justify his opinion should and would be highly concerned about that data. As you were. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Lazy .... LOL How many passes did Peters and Kelce make? Sproles was a RB, Allen doesn't utilize RBs in the passing game, that's part of the major issue here. If he had he would have made more than 38 passes, or fewer than 4/game to them. In other old hate news, Allen had more Time-to-Throw, which is a measure of how quickly a passer releases a pass, than ANY other QB in the entire league, by a country mile relatively speaking, according to NFL.com's Next Gen Stats. You did know that after looking at that and consider that, right? Right? Additionally, despite the narrative Allen was around average in protection time by the line. So this notion that he had the worst pass-proteting line in the league or even close is also a false narrative. Queue the excuses. Anything else? Just throwin' some additional info out there. Everyone seems to think that it's irrelevant. So be it. It's hardly for me to decide for everyone. I would suggest that an astute observer that wasn't more concerned about laying out excuses to justify his opinion should and would be highly concerned about that data. As you were. the data AND astute observation shows me a larger more athletic qb was routinely getting bum rushed behind one of the worst lines in football while waiting for one of the worst supporting casts in football to try and get open. SMH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Lazy .... LOL How many passes did Peters and Kelce make? Sproles was a RB, Allen doesn't utilize RBs in the passing game, that's part of the major issue here. If he had he would have made more than 38 passes, or fewer than 4/game to them. In other old hate news, Allen had more Time-to-Throw, which is a measure of how quickly a passer releases a pass, than ANY other QB in the entire league, by a country mile relatively speaking, according to NFL.com's Next Gen Stats. You did know that after looking at that and consider that, right? Right? Additionally, despite the narrative Allen was around average in protection time by the line. So this notion that he had the worst pass-proteting line in the league or even close is also a false narrative. Queue the excuses. Anything else? Just throwin' some additional info out there. Everyone seems to think that it's irrelevant. So be it. It's hardly for me to decide for everyone. I would suggest that an astute observer that wasn't more concerned about laying out excuses to justify his opinion should and would be highly concerned about that data. As you were. For someone who comes across who thinks they know a lot about football, you clearly fall short in understanding the importance of an oline. Allen literally had nothing to work at reciever and had zero run game to speak of. That puts a rookie qb at a huge disadvantage. But sure cherry pick your stats to prove your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Tasker Why do you continue to put up crap When you have someone that can be considered a "top receiver" be it TE or WR....the fact is you did have a guy quality enough to be a go to guy....of which the bills had NONE BECAUSE THEY KEPT DROPPING BALLS THAT HIT THEM RIGHT IN THE HANDS Ertz (and Jordan Mathews) were better then ANYTHING we had..... Period OK, if you say so. As I see it Matthews is and always has been a very average 2/3 WR, little else. Ertz for cryin' out loud is a TE and their leading WR that season with 800-some yards and a mere 4 TDs. It's funny, when the narrative fits Foster's on the cusp of being elite, Jones is great but takes a few seasons to develop, and Benjamin, whose career trajectory has been better than Matthews is irrelevant. LOL Now we have Brown, so the problem's been resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said: He will be with an improved set of receivers Not all of those are the fault of the receivers but man some were right on hands or numbers and dropped. In many cases the ball seemed to be coming in hot but that should not matter to an NFL receiver. Kelvin Benjamin truly had hands of stone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: OK, if you say so. As I see it Matthews is and always has been a very average 2/3 WR, little else. Ertz for cryin' out loud is a TE and their leading WR that season with 800-some yards and a mere 4 TDs. It's funny, when the narrative fits Foster's on the cusp of being elite, Jones is great but takes a few seasons to develop, and Benjamin, whose career trajectory has been better than Matthews is irrelevant. LOL Now we have Brown, so the problem's been resolved. LOL.....just LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: this has to win the award as the dumbest statement of the day. am I right, people? Really? Jones, McCoy, Foster,, Benjamin, Croom, Clay, McKenzie, Ivory, and Holmes. Almost all of whom underachieved in their receiving games from their annual averages. Of course that couldn't have had anything to do with the QB play, despite the notion that I've already proven that our secondary receiver like RBs caught more passes on average for more yards without Allen under Center. But that's irrelevant, right? 27 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Wentz also had at least two competent receivers and a much better OL. But we'll not take that into account, eh? Allen had more time-to-throw. Does that factor in? Allow me to ask tho, does ANY of this fall onto Allen as you see it? Based on everything I'm reading here Allen's poop doesn't stink in the overall analysis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: Really? Jones, McCoy, Foster,, Benjamin, Croom, Clay, McKenzie, Ivory, and Holmes. Almost all of whom underachieved in their receiving games from their annual averages. Of course that couldn't have had anything to do with the QB play, despite the notion that I've already proven that our secondary receiver like RBs caught more passes on average for more yards without Allen under Center. But that's irrelevant, right? Allen had more time-to-throw. Does that factor in? Allow me to ask tho, does ANY of this fall onto Allen as you see it? Based on everything I'm reading here Allen's poop doesn't stink in the overall analysis. I suppose that you do need to be reminded that Allen MAKES HIS OWN extra time with the way he moves in the pocket right? Jesus...please just stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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