Report: Bills interested in UFA TE Jesse James

[Kirby Jackson]

49 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

The only reason I remember that is because he mentioned it during a thread for a prime time game Pitt was playing this past season.  I asked him if this was even possible, and he said it was since Jesse James will be a FA and Pitt is committed to Vance McDonald.  And no, I don't keep records of predictions.  

 

What I am surprised about is the number of posters who are down on James, even seeming someone calling him a poor man's Scott Chandler.  Really?  Chandler had problems catching the ball, staying healthy, all while being even less athletic than James.

I didn’t call him a poor man’s Chandler. I said that he’s the same player (ie a decent #2TE). 

[BillsSB2020]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Maxx Williams has never done anything in the NFL . JJ has been a much better player. 

That much is true, however Williams was actually graded higher by PFF because he's an elite blocker.

 

You can never have enough weapons, but I'm pretty high on Croom and believe he could be just as good an option(if not better) than James as a receiver.

 

My overall opinion is that I don't want to pay James TE1 money. The position needs to seriously be addressed and I don't believe he's the ultimate answer. That should come in the draft IMO. I wouldn't HATE signing James. Just leery.

 

So if you draft the right TE and sign Williams, the room is the stud rookie, an elite blocker, and an athletic hybrid in Croom. And you paid substantially less than if you signed James.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BillsSB2020

[947]

1 hour ago, turftoe said:

He looks really slow to me.

My thoughts exactly. He looks like a nice target with good hands, but runs like he's wearing ankle weights. Every highlight, a DB catches up to him like he's standing still & then he goes down on first contact. 

 

Jesse James is better than any TE we have, but he wouldn't have much more impact for us than the 2018 version of Clay. I'd rather gamble on the upside of Eifert or Maxx Williams.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Makes sense as a stopgap. Joe Marino talked about him on the locked on Bills podcast the other day and said he's not particularly athletic, but he's reliable and would definitely be an improvement. I expect us to draft a TE on day 1 or 2 regardless.

If he's young and can play, why would he be a stopgap?  You sign a guy like this, and given all our needs, why would you draft a TE on day one or two?

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Why a stopgap? 

 

As a #2 he can stick around. As a #1 ideally he is a stopgap while a younger and more talented TE develops. James isn't bad, he just doesn't offer anything special. He's smart and knows how to play in scramble drills which would be nice for Allen, but he's a mediocre blocker and has very limited YAC ability.

 

I want a true #1 TE here because it fits the offense we're building with Allen. I want a seam buster and someone that can block for our RBs. James isn't either of those. He's just a guy. We need better pass catchers and better blockers. A guy like Hockenson fits both needs in one. We have other options like Irv Smith, Jace Sternberger, and Isaac Nauta that could go in rounds 2-4. I don't want us to rely on another team's backup. Go out and get a real building block for the offense.

Edited February 22, 2019 by HappyDays

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

As a #2 he can stick around. As a #1 ideally he is a stopgap while a younger and more talented TE develops. James isn't bad, he just doesn't offer anything special. He's smart and knows how to play in scramble drills which would be nice for Allen, but he's a mediocre blocker and has very limited YAC ability.

 

I want a true #1 TE here because it fits the offense we're building with Allen. I want a seam buster and someone that can block for our RBs. James isn't either of those. He's just a guy. We need better pass catchers and better blockers. A guy like Hockenson fits both needs in one. We have other options like Irv Smith, Jace Sternberger, and Isaac Nauta that could go in rounds 2-4. I don't want us to rely on another team's backup. Go out and get a real building block for the offense.

Thanks.  I appreciate the thoughtful response.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, CommonCents said:

Simply not true. Here is a stat from 2016 until the middle of 2017 when the article was written...the Pats went 11-0 without Gronk. 

 

With Gronk they averaged two less points per game, 25 less total yards, 20 less passing yards. That’s a fair sample size. TEs don’t matter if you know what you’re doing out there. This is big 12 football gone wild and it’s only going to get worse if you aren’t into pinball. 

 

They also went 11-5 without Brady with a QB who never started a football game since High School.  

 

So sorry, saying they went 11-0 without Gronk in no way devalues the TE position.  BB is the GOAT for a reason. 

[ExWNYer]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

James is fine but he’s just a guy. Anyone that thinks this will be different from the other “guys” that we have had filling the position is mistaken. It’s a decent addition because we need 2 TEs. Adding James makes the Bills a little less desperate but TE is still a need.

 

This is how I feel about him, as well. He's not a bad player but, if he gets a "decent-sized" contract as was speculated by Tony Pauline in the first post by Yolo, I will not be happy. The Bills don't need to spend "significant money" on a plodding, check-down option for Josh Allen. I'd rather draft one or two receiving/complete TEs and sign a cheaper vet who can block.

Edited February 22, 2019 by ExWNYer

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

I’d argue all those tight ends would be handled easily by a good CB1, but a tight end rarely deserves that attention compared to a WR so they get the 3-5th best pass defender on them. If you get a 10m a year WR as the 4th option you’ll probably do pretty darn well matching up to

 

Gronk, Kelce, and Ertz are not "4th options" though, in fact, they are primary options.  They draw a lot more defensive attention than other TE's.  Same with Greg Olsen.  

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

This is how I feel about him, as well. He's not a bad player but, if he gets a "decent-sized" contract as was speculated by Tony Pauline in the first post by Yolo, I will not be happy. The Bills don't need to spend "significant money" on a plodding, check-down option for Josh Allen. I'd rather draft one or two receiving/complete TEs and sign a cheaper vet who can block.

 

I am little confused here.  Where are people coming up with slow and plodding in this thread?  Is it because of the first handful of catches on the highlight real at the beginning of this thread?  Because if you are, then watch it again, he is making all kinds of downfield deep pays and beating cornerbacks.

 

I do not see slow and plodding.  Those first couple of highlights he kind of is jogging out into a soft part of a zone on short pass, but you can see him running down seems for deep gains all over the place and doing plenty of RAC.

 

More important, I keep seeing some nice high pointing and big catch radius plays too.  I think this kid would be a good addition.  I don't want to do a Clay like over pay, but I think he has quite a bit of upside.  And I am a guy who loves the idea of Hockenson, but James is a pretty intriguing prospect.

 

I mean he is 6'-7" and as a #2 TE he had 30 rec and 423 yards for 14.1 YPC.  How is that slow and plodding?  Plus he has good hands.

 

Among TE's with at least 30 catches, he was 5th in YPC only behind:  OJ Howard, Mark Andrews, George Kittle and Gronk.  

 

For reference, Kelce was at 13 ypc and Ertz was 10 ypc.  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[CommonCents]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They also went 11-5 without Brady with a QB who never started a football game since High School.  

 

So sorry, saying they went 11-0 without Gronk in no way devalues the TE position.  BB is the GOAT for a reason. 

More brain less snark. The previous season the Pats were 16-0 and scored 589 points. Without Brady they lost 5 more games and scored 410 points for the 08 season.

 

Without Gronk their win percentage, ppg, and yards went up. TE is not the engine of an offense it’s a complimentary piece now

so more than ever. 

[ExWNYer]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am little confused here.  Where are people coming up with slow and plodding in this thread?  Is it because of the first handful of catches on the highlight real at the beginning of this thread?  Because if you are, then watch it again, he is making all kinds of downfield deep pays and beating cornerbacks.

 

I do not see slow and plodding.  Those first couple of highlights he kind of is jogging out into a soft part of a zone on short pass, but you can see him running down seems for deep gains all over the place and doing plenty of RAC.

 

More important, I keep seeing some nice high pointing and big catch radius plays too.  I think this kid would be a good addition.  I don't want to do a Clay like over pay, but I think he has quite a bit of upside.  And I am a guy who loves the idea of Hockenson, but James is a pretty intriguing prospect.

 

I mean he is 6'-7" and as a #2 TE he had 30 rec and 423 yards for 14.1 YPC.  How is that slow and plodding?  

 

Among TE's with at least 30 catches, he was 5th in YPC only behind:  OJ Howard, Mark Andrews, George Kittle and Gronk.  

 

For reference, Kelce was at 13 ypc and Ertz was 10 ypc.  

 

We'll agree to disagree. He is far from fleet of foot. He might be a slightly above average TE, at best, but I don't see him as either special or a difference maker. JMO

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

More brain less snark. The previous season the Pats were 16-0 and scored 589 points. Without Brady they lost 5 more games and scored 410 points for the 08 season.

 

Without Gronk their win percentage, ppg, and yards went up. TE is not the engine of an offense it’s a complimentary piece now

so more than ever. 

 

Most teams do not have the GOAT at QB and the GOAT at HC to overcome a big time offensive weapon missing time.  Its a poor example.  

 

You also conveniently failed to mention that Brady had a pretty good TE to throw to whole Gronk missed those 11 games in Bennett.  Bennett was second on that team in receiving with over 700 yards and also caught 7 TDs and all mostly while Gronk was hurt.

 

So like I said, poor example.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[NoSaint]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Gronk, Kelce, and Ertz are not "4th options" though, in fact, they are primary options.  They draw a lot more defensive attention than other TE's.  Same with Greg Olsen.  

 

 4th may be an exaggeration for the most elite but still they really aren’t THE guy. Some stats below, and I’ll chime I’ve seen similar from jimmy graham during his saints franchise tag dispute. There’s a reason they are paid as role players and not like WRs or CBs and franchise guys. Great tight ends get ok WR money. Why they aren’t too 5 draft picks. So on and so forth.

 

GRONK VS. SAFETIES/LINEBACKERS, 2016-17
Targets: 115
Receptions: 79
Receiving yards: 1,338
TD-INT: 9-0
Passer rating: 133.9

GRONK VS. CORNERBACKS, 2016-17
Targets: 24
Receptions: 11
Receiving yards: 192
TD-INT: 1-1
Passer rating: 70.1

 

or Olsen?

 

OLSEN VS. SAFETIES/LINEBACKERS, 2016-17
Targets: 117
Receptions: 69
Receiving yards: 975
TD-INT: 4-0
Passer rating: 97.4

OLSEN VS. CORNERBACKS, 2016-17
Targets: 39
Receptions: 20
Receiving yards: 199
TD-INT: 0-0
Passer rating: 66.2

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

 4th may be an exaggeration for the most elite but still they really aren’t THE guy. Some stats below, and I’ll chime I’ve seen similar from jimmy graham during his saints franchise tag dispute. There’s a reason they are paid as role players and not like WRs or CBs and franchise guys. Great tight ends get ok WR money. Why they aren’t too 5 draft picks. So on and so forth.

 

GRONK VS. SAFETIES/LINEBACKERS, 2016-17
Targets: 115
Receptions: 79
Receiving yards: 1,338
TD-INT: 9-0
Passer rating: 133.9

GRONK VS. CORNERBACKS, 2016-17
Targets: 24
Receptions: 11
Receiving yards: 192
TD-INT: 1-1
Passer rating: 70.1

 

or Olsen?

 

OLSEN VS. SAFETIES/LINEBACKERS, 2016-17
Targets: 117
Receptions: 69
Receiving yards: 975
TD-INT: 4-0
Passer rating: 97.4

OLSEN VS. CORNERBACKS, 2016-17
Targets: 39
Receptions: 20
Receiving yards: 199
TD-INT: 0-0
Passer rating: 66.2

 

Yeah, but aren't you actually making the point for a TE?  I mean these guys are constantly exploiting matchups and zones.  Not to mention their size to be big Redzone threats.  Their value is high and even more so for a young QB who has a big target and safety net often.  I mean watch the Chiefs, its unreal how many easy throws are there for Mahomes to make to Kelce, he is running wide open all over the place and is a big target to hit too.  

 

Doesn't matter if the TE can or cant beat Patrick Peterson in coverage because he is never covering him, or at least rarely (if ever).  What matters is does the TE get open, who is covering them doesn't matter.  And Olsen, Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Kittle, etc are beating their defenders and are difference makers in those offenses.

 

Given the rise of the TE the last few years, I am really surprised more people are seeing the value.  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[BringBackFlutie]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There is no disagreement. We are saying the same thing. The point was, “if you are expecting this guy to sign with the Bills and explode prepare to be disappointed. He is Scott Chandler in his prime. A solid TE and the ideal 2nd guy there.”

 

I searched the thread to see if anyone else said "Scott Chandler" before I did, because they're the same person.  From height/weight, to speed, style of play- hell, even the way he catches the ball is like Chandler.  Blah.  Tall body with a great catch radius, but not a great blocker, slow, goes down easily.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I didn’t call him a poor man’s Chandler. I said that he’s the same player (ie a decent #2TE). 

 

I wasn't referring to you re: poor man's Chandler.  That was another poster.

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

We'll agree to disagree. He is far from fleet of foot. He might be a slightly above average TE, at best, but I don't see him as either special or a difference maker. JMO

 

All good, I am just surprised he is labeled so slow when he was making lots of downfield catches and had some nice RAC too.  For me, I don't really care if the TE is a speed burner, he is most often running in zones or beating LB's.  I just want a guy with soft hands, who is a big target and can find the open spot.  James is no lock to be "special", but I think he has some nice upside.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Hockenson and would prefer him over anyone.  But if we are going to sign a FA TE, I do like James.  Also said earlier, I would prefer Cameron Brate over James if he does become a cap cut or made available for a late round draft pick in trade.

[Golden Goat]

I was pissed seeing Riemersma in a Steelers jersey. Hopefully some Steelers fan will be pissed seeing James in a Bills jersey.

[CommonCents]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Most teams do not have the GOAT at QB and the GOAT at HC to overcome their number one receiving target missing time.  Its a poor example.  

 

You also conveniently failed to mention that Brady had a pretty good TE to throw to whole Gronk missed those 11 games in Bennett.  Bennett was second on that team in receiving with over 700 yards and also caught 7 TDs and all mostly while Gronk was hurt.

 

So like I said, poor example.

 Bennett had 3 career seasons over 700 yards and that was one of them it’s no surprise he was able to be productive in that offense.

 

Chiefs-Kelce 

Rams-LOL

Saints-Corpse of Watson

Patriots-Gronk

Steelers-McDonAld 

Chargers-corpse 

Hawks-Vannett

Colts-Ebron 

Falcons-Hooper

Bears-Burton

 

Thats the top 10 teams in scoring from 18’, a good TE is hardly a requirement. A guy like James who can sit down in a zone and catch the ball is fine, if they can build the rest of the team properly. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said:

 

I searched the thread to see if anyone else said "Scott Chandler" before I did, because they're the same person.  From height/weight, to speed, style of play- hell, even the way he catches the ball is like Chandler.  Blah.  Tall body with a great catch radius, but not a great blocker, slow, goes down easily.

 Both also run with both hands wrapped

on the ball the majority of the time.