The Difference Between Best Player Available vs. Drafting For Need (Sal Capaccio Explains...)

[Augie]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

We will get what we get and we will like it

 

 

 

Any interviewer worth 2 percent of their salary would crack through fake buttkissing answers easily to get to the inner person .

 

 

As pointed out elsewhere, there may be more to be learned by interviewing the people around the player. I’m NOT arguing Maybin was a good idea, if that’s what you think. There has not been a day in my life where I thought that was the case.

 

But I honestly do hope he’s living a happy life now. 

[row_33]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

As pointed out elsewhere, there may be more to be learned by interviewing the people around the player. I’m NOT arguing Maybin was a good idea, if that’s what you think. There has not been a day in my life where I thought that was the case.

 

But I honestly do hope he’s living a happy life now. 

 

Thats generous of you

 

[Augie]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

Thats generous of you

 

 

Life is more than the game. Many people have done much worse. Even if it was enormously disappointing. Hating is not healthy for anyone IMO. So I do my best. 

[row_33]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Life is more than the game. Many people have done much worse. Even if it was enormously disappointing. Hating is not healthy for anyone IMO. So I do my best. 

 

Well played

 

as one who conducts interrogations I can’t believe the process was so slack that a guy would show up with no motivation to play the game

 

then again I remember some high draft picks turned out to be hippies who packed it in at training camp during that era

 

[BuffAlone]

7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

What Im saying is that contrary to what Beane and other have said, need is a factor in draft selections.  Some believe that team draft exclusively by best player available.  

 

Myself and others here don’t buy that entirely.  I think you take the best player available given the needs on the roster.  

 

But aren’t these tiers partially, or exclusively, based on need?  You obviously wouldn’t put a LT in the top tier, of you already have a franchise player under contract long term etc.

 

This was my point.

Beane has said from day one, and held true, and swears that that's who

 he'll always be. Why are you doubting him? He's given you no reason to say " Contrary to what he says " need is as important as BPA? So, why is this a thing?You work for CNN?Fox? State your case , man. This is an ugly thread based on nothing but your lips. In all due respect...

[row_33]

Bears and Raiders were left high and dry

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Well played

 

as one who conducts interrogations I can’t believe the process was so slack that a guy would show up with no motivation to play the game

 

then again I remember some high draft picks turned out to be hippies who packed it in at training camp during that era

 

 

Oh yes, I’m more disappointed with those “professionals” assigned to the background checks than I am the player, and even they just made errors that disappoint. Incompetence is not the same as evil. Sad either way, but two very different things. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 hours ago, JÂy RÛßeÒ said:

Donte Whitner @ 8 (1 pick after the top safety had come off the board) = drafting for need

Even though Haloti Ngata was on the board, the 2005 Bills finished 31st against the run after letting Pat Williams go, and they could already see Tim Anderson 3rd Round 2005 was a bust. 

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

I get what you are saying, it just sounds very confusing.  Based on what you are saying, there’s really not that much difference between the two.  Unless you pull a Buddy Nix and draft EJ Manuel in the 1st round 

It's not confusing at all.  Typically they group players together and in a situation where all the players in a group might be available, they take the one they feel fits their needs best.  However, they are not going to go down to a group below them just to grab a certain position because they aren't in the higher group of players.

 

[row_33]

Whitner was fine, it was taking 3 DBs with the first four picks that was the problem

 

 

 

 

[iinii]

4 hours ago, Utah John said:

Newspaper writers have to write something in the offseason and it's part of Beane's job to provide something to write about.  Never never never believe anything a GM says before the drat.  It is a complete disadvantage for them to give any hint about what their real plans are.

Exactly! Some people on this board have sworn that since XYZ said something in a presser it was the GOSPEL and we should never doubt the validity. It absolutely boggles my mind how some can be so lost, shall we say. 

[BillyWhiteShows]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

Whitner was fine, it was taking 3 DBs with the first four picks that was the problem

 

 

 

 

But some might call that drafting the “best player available”

[Virgil]

I think you have to add two caveats to BPA.  It means you don’t reach for a player because of need when their value doesn’t line up with your pick. 

 

And there are positions that are locked in and not on your board before certain rounds.  

 

If you follow those two rules, you can still comply with BPA

[row_33]

59 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

But some might call that drafting the “best player available”

 

It wasn’t at all.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

What Im saying is that contrary to what Beane and other have said, need is a factor in draft selections.  Some believe that team draft exclusively by best player available.  

 

Myself and others here don’t buy that entirely.  I think you take the best player available given the needs on the roster.  

 

But aren’t these tiers partially, or exclusively, based on need?  You obviously wouldn’t put a LT in the top tier, of you already have a franchise player under contract long term etc.

 

This was my point.

 

 

Thing is, you're not the GM. Beane is. 

 

He's making this point again and again and again because he believes in it, deeply. He drafts BPA.

 

Yes, position is a factor, especially when you need a QB, or when a position is less valuable to a team. You don't draft a long-snapper in the 1st round even if he's the greatest long-snapper the NFL has ever seen. Some positions are more important than others, some less. And that factors in. It's not a black and white discussion. There are subtleties and distinctions. But what Beane is telling you is what his priorities are. You might want him to take into account the needs of the roster. He's not interested in what others think he should do. He's got priorities.

 

Here's an intelligent piece by Buscaglia that just came out:

 

 

 

"3) Drafting for need vs. value explained further

 

"- Just a day after the 2018 season ended for the Bills, Beane made a bit of a buzzworthy statement about not drafting for need, and that he refuses to do that as long as he's the GM of the team. However, it's a more nuanced discussion than it is cut and dry. So, with almost a month passed between then and the Senior Bowl, Beane opened up the conversation a bit. His justification is that -- especially in the first round -- drafting at a spot for need only and reaching for that player with other, more talented players at different positions available is how teams can get themselves into trouble. He then brought up the situation of last year and had they stayed at 21 and taken a quarterback, it would have been them reaching to fill a need -- but because they moved up to get Josh Allen at seventh overall, they had the need and the value meet eye-to-eye. I think there's even more to the equation than Beane mentioned while he was keeping it more general, in the sense of positional weight and how much each spot should be valued by a team -- which ultimately factors into the full value of the prospect himself. All of that sounds great in theory, but having the gumption to pull it off in a pressurized situation is something Beane has to stand by. I asked him off to the side about that side of it, when he's on the clock and the potential of passing on someone that helps them right away for someone that's of higher value to them organizationally. His response:

 

" 'Well sometimes that’s not always the most popular decision and maybe not even in the building, and obviously with the fans, but you know, coaches, they want good players to help them execute and do their job better. But again, my job is to bring the best players that I can to the Buffalo Bills to give Sean and his staff. And if you start reaching, it may not hurt you immediately, but over time, you’re taking less talented players, your team is going to suffer a little bit.' "

 

"As the first round goes, there isn't a real way to gauge what the Bills did in the first round in 2018 -- Beane's only draft in Buffalo -- because of the move up to get those two players at where they valued each player. We'll get a more definitive gauge of what the Bills do at ninth overall, and how it lines up with this draft theory."

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/5-takeaways-from-buffalo-bills-gm-brandon-beane-at-the-2019-senior-bowl

 

 

Buscaglia uses the word "nuanced," and that's right, it's a nuanced discussion. But treating BPA as the most important factor is a strong, strong belief for Beane. It's in his DNA. That's why he harps on it over and over again.

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

Whitner was fine, it was taking 3 DBs with the first four picks that was the problem

 

 

 

Whitner was horrible value where he was picked. 

 

If they had to have him, they should have traded back, snagged some extra picks and picked him in the early 20s. He'd have been there. And people wouldn't have had the unreasonable expectations for him that they had because he was picked so early.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Whitner was horrible value where he was picked. 

 

If they had to have him, they should have traded back, snagged some extra picks and picked him in the early 20s. He'd have been there. And people wouldn't have had the unreasonable expectations for him that they had because he was picked so early.

 

And then they took two more DBs right behind him, with so many other needs to fill

 

 

[djp14150]

You don’t draft boa ever...

 

you draft based on need first ...if you have 3 needs then the boa comes into play.

 

the times you take boa is if a player falls like a top 10 player is still on the board at 25.

 

some positions you only need 1 pkayer so teams aren’t going to keep drafting the same position ..so buffalo just drafted a Qb , cb and mlb in the 1st. They aren’t using their 2019 1st on those positions.  If they think McCoy is fine in 2019..they aren’t using a first on a RB. Pkayers you sign as ufas..those positionsshouldnt be used on you 1st because you signed a pkayer to fill this role.

[BillsFan1988]

4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. I talked to a teammate of Maybin's in a bar once. Played linebacker so he was pretty close to him in terms of the locker room. Guy was pretty tipsy and told me that Maybin was a great guy but had little interest in football and wasn't nearly as good as his junior season numbers suggested. Said the rest of his defensive teammates were shocked he was taken in the first round, let alone that high. 

 

Conclusion; get the prospects teammates drunk and find out what they have to say.

Maybin was a complete bust before we even pkd him. He failed my eye test big time. I almost lost it when we took him over Orakpo.

[MJS]

It's never truly BPA. If you have a franchise QB you don't draft a QB in the first round if that is the BPA.

 

It is BPA within reason and considering the makup of your team. No matter who you draft, there has to be a slot they fit into on your team or it is a wasted pick.

 

But, the theory of filling holes in free agency so you can draft BPA in the draft holds true. You don't want to go into the draft with super glaring needs or you will start reaching for players and pass on potential stars.