26CornerBlitz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Play-Action Passes Key to Josh Allen’s Success Erik Turner - 11/30/2018 A trend around the NFL is utilizing play-action passes (PAP) at unusual rates, and no one in the league is doing it better than the Rams. Per Pro Football Focus (PFF), the Rams and Jared Goff utilize play-action on 37% of their dropbacks. The old adage that you need to get the run game going in order for play action to be effective simply isn’t true. Getting the play-action game going with rookie QB Josh Allen at the helm has been offensive coordinator Brian Daboll’s core tenet, and he has excelled. Having a young quarterback turn his back on the defense while executing the play-fake then processing the pre- to post-snap picture was something that many coaches used to worry about. But times are a changing; they would have to be for a highly criticized quarterback like Allen to be succeeding, especially without a run game. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Not a bad break down. I watched the cover one guys on youtube all the time when they had videos post game discussing the game but they dont do them anymore. Thats a shame they had something good going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, wppete said: Not a bad break down. I watched the cover one guys on youtube all the time when they had videos post game discussing the game but they dont do them anymore. Thats a shame they had something good going there. Erik Turner, the main guy from Cover 1 now writes for the Athletic and does breakdowns weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Had he thrown the ball to Ivory on that play, he may have scored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Play-Action Passes Key to Josh Allen’s Success Erik Turner - 11/30/2018 A trend around the NFL is utilizing play-action passes (PAP) at unusual rates, and no one in the league is doing it better than the Rams. Per Pro Football Focus (PFF), the Rams and Jared Goff utilize play-action on 37% of their dropbacks. The old adage that you need to get the run game going in order for play action to be effective simply isn’t true. Getting the play-action game going with rookie QB Josh Allen at the helm has been offensive coordinator Brian Daboll’s core tenet, and he has excelled. Having a young quarterback turn his back on the defense while executing the play-fake then processing the pre- to post-snap picture was something that many coaches used to worry about. But times are a changing; they would have to be for a highly criticized quarterback like Allen to be succeeding, especially without a run game. A high percentage of play action throws is a great way to develop a QB. That is how the Steelers handled Big Ben the first three seasons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, jletha said: Erik Turner, the main guy from Cover 1 now writes for the Athletic and does breakdowns weekly I meant post game shows like this one.. They had some good post and pre game videos of them discussing the game.. They dont do them anymore. Thats too bad because if they continued I thin k they would get a lot more subscribers and followers. Hopefully someone can do something similar. Edited November 30, 2018 by wppete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 51 minutes ago, the skycap said: Had he thrown the ball to Ivory on that play, he may have scored Holy crap yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, billspro said: A high percentage of play action throws is a great way to develop a QB. That is how the Steelers handled Big Ben the first three seasons. It's all he can live on at the moment, I just hope it isn't all he ends up being able to do though. One thing too much play action can do is create a habit of holding on to the ball for too long waiting for deep routes to develop. He made definitive strides on Sunday in terms of staying within and moving about the pocket and completing/attempting throws within the 3-5 second window. Nitpicking, but even on that throw to Foster in the article, I want to see him get that ball out quicker as he doesn't begin his throwing motion until Foster has already stopped. Thankfully his velocity and touch on that throw counteracted the later timing and all was well. But especially for those windowed throws, I would like to see him hit the timing more quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, the skycap said: Had he thrown the ball to Ivory on that play, he may have scored It certainly would have been a big gain....and a DB’s worst nightmare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRHater69 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) Might not have hit that pass to Ivory, by the time Ivory turned the pocket was collapsing and there may have been a defender just tight enough to block his line of sight to that part of the field or at least make it an awkward throw. Edited November 30, 2018 by GRHater69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Good breakdown but he’s wrong when he says the old adage of you need to get the run game going to set up play action is absolutely false. You do need a threat back there Shady is STILL the reason teams bite on PA, just like with the Rams they bite because Gurley... you don’t need to average 5 yards a carry to set up play action... you need to have A THREAT IN THE BACKFIELD Cmon Erik. You really think PA with the Bills would be as successful if we had Tolbert back there? Or if the Rams had Tolbert ? Nobody would ever bite on the run because their is no threat. Play action would be useless because their is no run threat. It works because Gurley and Shady are threats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Good breakdown but he’s wrong when he says the old adage of you need to get the run game going to set up play action is absolutely false. You do need a threat back there Shady is STILL the reason teams bite on PA, just like with the Rams they bite because Gurley... you don’t need to average 5 yards a carry to set up play action... you need to have A THREAT IN THE BACKFIELD Cmon Erik. You really think PA with the Bills would be as successful if we had Tolbert back there? Or if the Rams had Tolbert ? Nobody would ever bite on the run because their is no threat. Play action would be useless because their is no run threat. It works because Gurley and Shady are threats It's not so much the threat as much as it is the defensive scheme and assignments. No one is arguing you don't have to account for Shady or Gurley, but why PA is more effective here is also due to formations. The Rams almost always use tight formations despite how many people think they operate primarily on the spread offense in both their run and passing game - especially with mesh concepts which is the Rams primary man/match coverage breaker. Not to mention, pretty sure I saw Ivory out there on the PA playcalls as much as Shady. As a defense, you have to account for the back in the backfield no matter who it is. Yes, Gurley may demand more attention than other backs, but it's rare a defense will still assign a double team assignment to him on plays where he's in the backfield. But on each play the LB has assignments for if the play is a handoff and if the play is a pass, no matter whose name is on the back of the jersey. The reason play action is so effective is because it keeps LBs close to the line of scrimmage allowing receivers to get a jump on the delayed coverage and run their routes. It also delays most blitzes as rushers have to account for the potential of a handoff. If you watch the all-22 or cover1 reviews, you'll see how this was effectively used and Jax did not respond to in terms of in-game adjustments, and still honored both Ivory and Shady. Match coverage can be very effective in terms of combating PA, much more so than simple LB discipline. The Jax LBs never really bit on the PA in the second half, but still had to honor the run and stand their ground in case there was a handoff. You're not wrong that having someone like Gurley or Shady helps, but the success of PA is not predicated on having an elite RB, if anything, you need the OL to be able to handle the pass rush more so. Edited November 30, 2018 by ctk232 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, ctk232 said: It's not so much the threat as much as it is the defensive scheme and assignments. No one is arguing you don't have to account for Shady or Gurley, but why PA is more effective here is also due to formations. The Rams almost always use tight formations despite how many people think they operate primarily on the spread offense in both their run and passing game - especially with mesh concepts which is the Rams primary man/match coverage breaker. Not to mention, pretty sure I saw Ivory out there on the PA playcalls as much as Shady. As a defense, you have to account for the back in the backfield no matter who it is. Yes, Gurley may demand more attention than other backs, but it's rare a defense will still assign a double team assignment to him on plays where he's in the backfield. But on each play the LB has assignments for if the play is a handoff and if the play is a pass, no matter whose name is on the back of the jersey. The reason play action is so effective is because it keeps LBs close to the line of scrimmage allowing receivers to get a jump on the delayed coverage and run their routes. It also delays most blitzes as rushers have to account for the potential of a handoff. If you watch the all-22 or cover1 reviews, you'll see how this was effectively used and Jax did not respond to in terms of in-game adjustments, and still honored both Ivory and Shady. Match coverage can be very effective in terms of combating PA, much more so than simple LB discipline. The Jax LBs never really bit on the PA in the second half, but still had to honor the run and stand their ground in case there was a handoff. You're not wrong that having someone like Gurley or Shady helps, but the success of PA is not predicated on having an elite RB, if anything, you need the OL to be able to handle the pass rush more so. I fully understand . I have coached and scouted and played for my entire life Erik said you don’t need a run game for PA passes to Be successful, and that isn’t entirely true. It’s a half truth yes you can have a successful PA pass or even a couple without the threat of a run game. But it isn’t sustainable throughout a full season or even game without a decent threat of running NFL linebackers DO NOT BITE on playfakes unless their is serious threat to run. If you are running 2 YPC all year, with no threat. No LBrs are going to creep up and bite on playaction fakes You can run 30 PA passes a game but if the threat to run isn’t there nobody bites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 19 hours ago, the skycap said: Had he thrown the ball to Ivory on that play, he may have scored Ivory? He was open, but there were a bunch of defenders ahead of him so 99% chance he doesn't score. You mean if he decided to bomb it to Zay? 18 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Holy crap yeah. Do you think all those defenders are just going to stand there? 50 yards is a long way to go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 18 hours ago, wppete said: I meant post game shows like this one.. They had some good post and pre game videos of them discussing the game.. They dont do them anymore. Thats too bad because if they continued I thin k they would get a lot more subscribers and followers. Hopefully someone can do something similar. They still do pregame and postgame on YouTube with audio analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: They still do pregame and postgame on YouTube with audio analysis. Yeah not the same without video of plays, charts ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Another reason I think they are using traditional play action instead of the more "current" RPO is the structured footwork. Right now at least.......Allen seems to need those steps to be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/30/2018 at 1:04 PM, wppete said: Not a bad break down. I watched the cover one guys on youtube all the time when they had videos post game discussing the game but they dont do them anymore. Thats a shame they had something good going there. They still break down plays https://vimeo.com/user85305801 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts