Cowboys AND BEARS just showed why I keep saying Defense MATTERS still

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Belichick has a defensive background, but unlike any other DC-turned HC, he remade himself by focusing on offense. He's not a defensive minded coach anymore and hasn't been for at least 15 years. That should be factored in. It's not black and white.

 

I agree with this, however to discredit both his defensive ingenuity and also Josh mcDaniels impact on the offensive side is extreme to me.  BB is still considered one of the greatest defensive minds in history, if not the best.  The talent level

on the defensive side has been low lately, so Pats are more offensive dependent lately.  But to say BB isn’t a defensive guru IMHO is not accurate

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I just feel like HC's go with their strength.....in McD's case that is defense and it has made a bit turnaround since he has arrived.

 

but in order to WIN consistantly....you need balance

 

Agree, and I’m not arguing for all defense.  I’m arguing against the “ONLY offense matters crowd”

3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Nope you’re right it definitely doesn’t only matter.

 

But I will say an elite offence is way more important than an elite defence in 2018 NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with that considering there are no Elite  defenses this year.  But If the Seahawk team that trounced the Broncos in the SB was in this season, they would be the favorites IMHO.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Of course defense matters.  It's a no brainer. 

[BringBackOrton]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree with this, however to discredit both his defensive ingenuity and also Josh mcDaniels impact on the offensive side is extreme to me.  BB is still considered one of the greatest defensive minds in history, if not the best.  The talent level

on the defensive side has been low lately, so Pats are more offensive dependent lately.  But to say BB isn’t a defensive guru IMHO is not accurate

 

Agree, and I’m not arguing for all defense.  I’m arguing against the “ONLY offense matters crowd”

 

I agree with that considering there are no Elite  defenses this year.  But If the Seahawk team that trounced the Broncos in the SB was in this season, they would be the favorites IMHO.

But they aren’t because it’s way easier to keep an offense together than a defense.

[uticaclub]

All that matters is how the refs are instructed to call the games. This game they wanted an emphasis on defense to counteract the Rams Chiefs MNF, where they wanted the emphasis on offense.

 

If you think refs go out there, objectively, and try to call fair games, you are mistaken 

Edited November 30, 2018 by uticaclub

[Tcali]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Cowboys and their top 5 defense just shut down and beat the hottest team with the most efficient and best offense in football led by the MVP front runner and one of the best QBs of all time.  

 

Everyone keeps saying “game has changed”, “you must have offensive minded coach”, “you gotta throw for 300 yards most games”...blah blah blah.  Same crap people have said every year for 10 years.  Yet the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history combined to score 22 points in their SB losses to defensive teams.   Last year Brady threw for 500 yards and lost to a journeyman QB because the Pats D was so bad.  In fact, none of the top 5 highest scoring offenses in history won the SB, and only 3 reached it going 0-3 and all losing to defensive teams.

 

There are a lot of ways to win.  And come playoff time, defense matters a lot.  I love offense as much as anyone, don’t get me wrong, but just tired of all the absurd hot takes around here every time a high scoring game happens people crap on McD like he has no chance to succeed.  Like this weeks ridiculous thread on how our biggest mistake was not hiring Frank Reich.  Or all the threads on now we have to fire McD and hire some other offensive HC.  It’s ridiculous.

 

Personally, I love the way McD and Beane are building this team.  Built the D into a real strength, cleared our cap, and got a promising young QB to build around.  Plus they got extra picks this draft too.

 

Couple OL and WR additions and we will be on our way to being a team that could really contend for a long time.

But Coryells Chargers came so close;)

[D521646]

It was so funny watching the game, I was saying ti myself the whole time, Dallas was playing Brees the exact same way teams are supposed to play Brady, but rarely get it done.  Brady, like Brees, likes stepping up into the pocket, and throwing over the middle more than any other location.  If you take this away, it really screws with them, and they are forced to do things that they are less comfortable with.  Not that you'll always beat them this way, but when teams do beat them , this is how they do it.

 

Tim-

Edited November 30, 2018 by D521646

[CommonCents]

42 minutes ago, Cheesus said:

Game would have been different if played on Sunday instead of Thursday. 

Why? They both played a week ago on Thanksgiving?

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I was saying people said we can ONLY win with offense and that defense doesn’t matter and is dead.

 

What about John Fox?  He is DC and led the highest scoring offense in NFL history.  But didn’t win the SB (lost 41-8 to elite defense) with that record breaking offense and instead won 2 years later when the D was dominant and the passing game sucked and was worst in league that year in 2015.

Fox was always a defensive minded coach; he didn't run the offense. BB made a concerted, years-long effort to understand the offensive side of the ball and be able to game plan the offense in an innovative way. He is as good an offensive coach as he is a defensive coach. I also think that he's so smart that he got bored with simply focusing on defense and gave himself a new challenge. I would never say that about Fox.

[row_33]

44 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

All that matters is how the refs are instructed to call the games. This game they wanted an emphasis on defense to counteract the Rams Chiefs MNF, where they wanted the emphasis on offense.

 

If you think refs go out there, objectively, and try to call fair games, you are mistaken 

 

 

that's why I've determined for at least 20 years not to let calls get to me

 

I don't watch replay reviews any more, i PVR most games and fast forward to the start of the next play

 

they are going to do in the booth whatever they want to do irrespective of what everyone can plainly see on the replay

 

a total farce

 

 

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Why? They both played a week ago on Thanksgiving?

 

Well, it would have been on Sunday, for one thing.  ?

[uticaclub]

8 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

that's why I've determined for at least 20 years not to let calls get to me

 

I don't watch replay reviews any more, i PVR most games and fast forward to the start of the next play

 

they are going to do in the booth whatever they want to do irrespective of what everyone can plainly see on the replay

 

a total farce

 

 

2

Unless we start holding these refs accountable, by starting fights on the field (last week) or something like 2001 bottlegate, they will continue to the call the games the way they were instructed to.

 

 

[vorpma]

2 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Ok. So in your opinion, are the Cowboys going to go on the road in the playoffs and beat New Orleans in New Orleans?

I don't know, stranger things have happened, don't what the situation for these two teams will be next month.

[BillsFan130]

8 minutes ago, vorpma said:

I don't know, stranger things have happened, don't what the situation for these two teams will be next month.

Let’s say they are basically the same as they are now. Saints are still a high scoring machine and Dallas has the same mediocre offence and great defence. Who wins that game in New Orleans in your opinion?

[vorpma]

3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Let’s say they are basically the same as they are now. Saints are still a high scoring machine and Dallas has the same mediocre offence and great defence. Who wins that game in New Orleans in your opinion?

Being at "home, " I would give the significant advantage to New Orleans; if in Dallas it would be a toss up. OK, you are emotionally attached to your opinion and like many, love the arena football high scoring affairs. But in doing so, you are ignoring some pretty significant history through the last thirty years or more; a great defense can neutralize a high scoring offence and create a more even match up; I stick with facts and you follow your emotion

Just now, vorpma said:

Being at "home, " I would give the significant advantage to New Orleans; if in Dallas it would be a toss up. OK, you are emotionally attached to your opinion and like many, love the arena football high scoring affairs. But in doing so, you are ignoring some pretty significant history through the last thirty years or more; a great defense can neutralize a high scoring offence and create a more even match up; I stick with facts and you follow your emotion

And hypothetical's!  

[row_33]

40 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Unless we start holding these refs accountable, by starting fights on the field (last week) or something like 2001 bottlegate, they will continue to the call the games the way they were instructed to.

 

 

 

this is supposed to be a fun time to recharge when you aren't studying or working

 

don't let it get to you

 

i spent a few years in residence at university and every Sunday the game on TV would have fans for both teams whining about how the ref was screwing their team

 

even fans of a team winning 35-0 were still yelling against the refs

 

it's a pathology

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

All that matters is how the refs are instructed to call the games. This game they wanted an emphasis on defense to counteract the Rams Chiefs MNF, where they wanted the emphasis on offense.

 

If you think refs go out there, objectively, and try to call fair games, you are mistaken 

 

30 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Unless we start holding these refs accountable, by starting fights on the field (last week) or something like 2001 bottlegate, they will continue to the call the games the way they were instructed to.

 

 

 

So let me get this straight...you think that rather than it being a game where a team with a strong D played well and defended their home field, its MORE plausible and definitive even that the NFL risked its $100 Billion Dollar property to manipulate and interfere in a regular season Thursday night game with nothing significant even on the line, so it would be a low scoring game to counter what is essentially the NFLs wet dream of a game that was Rams vs Chiefs?

 

Hahahaha come on man, maybe you need to put a tin foil hat on your X-mas list.  I mean seriously, how can you think this?  First, everyone says the NFL is changing the rules to CREATE high scores.  So why would they risk the credibility of the entire league to manufacture a low scoring game, especially one with one of the best stories in the NFL this year...MVP front runner, ideal NFL poster boy, future HOFer, and all around good guy Drew Brees and what was a near perfect season so far.  I mean for them to do this, there has to be something to gain...and there is literally ZERO gained by any result of last nights game.  Doesn't matter if tis low, high, lop sided, medium scores etc.  You could EASILY make a case that its better for the NFL for Drew Brees to have shined in that game, not struggle and lose a low scoring affair. 

 

Just being honest man, but these kinds of statement lack any kind of commonsense to them.  I mean its a rather unimportant game to the NFL, its a regular season Thursday night game.  This would be far fetched even if this was a playoff or Super Bowl game, but off the charts far fetched considering it was a Thursday night game with nothing at stake for the NFL.  I get general corporate greed and mistrust, but there is just no logic or common sense that supports this theory about last nights game.

[row_33]

no matter how rigged and fixed it was, I never got over 45% in 12 years in office pools having to pick the spread for every game

 

 

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, vorpma said:

Being at "home, " I would give the significant advantage to New Orleans; if in Dallas it would be a toss up. OK, you are emotionally attached to your opinion and like many, love the arena football high scoring affairs. But in doing so, you are ignoring some pretty significant history through the last thirty years or more; a great defense can neutralize a high scoring offence and create a more even match up; I stick with facts and you follow your emotion

And hypothetical's!  

I actually dislike high scoring games. I preferred last nights game over the chiefs rams game. So please don’t tell me what I like and don’t like.

 

The FACT is in 2018 an elite offence is way more valuable than an elite defence. Don’t believe me? Look at the top 4 teams in the league right now. If you want to bet the field against those 4 teams (Rams , Chiefs, Saints, Pats) you will most likely lose your money. 

 

If you are going back 30 years to determine that defence is more important than offence, I really don’t know what to tell you. 1988 football to 2018 football is night and day. 

[uticaclub]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

So let me get this straight...you think that rather than it being a game where a team with a strong D played well and defended their home field, its MORE plausible and definitive even that the NFL risked its $100 Billion Dollar property to manipulate and interfere in a regular season Thursday night game with nothing significant even on the line, so it would be a low scoring game to counter what is essentially the NFLs wet dream of a game that was Rams vs Chiefs?

 

Hahahaha come on man, maybe you need to put a tin foil hat on your X-mas list.  I mean seriously, how can you think this?  First, everyone says the NFL is changing the rules to CREATE high scores.  So why would they risk the credibility of the entire league to manufacture a low scoring game, especially one with one of the best stories in the NFL this year...MVP front runner, ideal NFL poster boy, future HOFer, and all around good guy Drew Brees and what was a near perfect season so far.  I mean for them to do this, there has to be something to gain...and there is literally ZERO gained by any result of last nights game.  Doesn't matter if tis low, high, lop sided, medium scores etc.  You could EASILY make a case that its better for the NFL for Drew Brees to have shined in that game, not struggle and lose a low scoring affair. 

 

Just being honest man, but these kinds of statement lack any kind of commonsense to them.  I mean its a rather unimportant game to the NFL, its a regular season Thursday night game.  This would be far fetched even if this was a playoff or Super Bowl game, but off the charts far fetched considering it was a Thursday night game with nothing at stake for the NFL.  I get general corporate greed and mistrust, but there is just no logic or common sense that supports this theory about last nights game.

Have you watched an NFL game before? There’s a narrative that the league wants to push & the refs help execute that narrative. The last 2 weeks every talking head was talking about how all the rules only benefit offense and that defense was afterthought. The NFL wanted to say “Hey, defense is important too” on a prime time game and instructed the refs to make sure defenses shined. Like are you just looking at box scores? 

 

#callitbothways

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Have you watched an NFL game before? There’s a narrative that the league wants to push & the refs help execute that narrative. The last 2 weeks every talking head was talking about how all the rules only benefit offense and that defense was afterthought. The NFL wanted to say “Hey, defense is important too” on a prime time game and instructed the refs to make sure defenses shined. Like are you just looking at box scores? 

 

#callitbothways

 

What?  So now every game of every week has to be the same as every game the previous week otherwise it means the NFL is manipulating games for Parody?  Come on...you cant really believe this stuff?  So its all offense one week then NFL intervenes to slow it down next week...then intervenes again the week after to raise scores, and so on and so on?  

 

Real question...why do you watch sports then?  Because no sport can be legit, its all a big lie if what you just said is true.