MNF: The NFL Marquee Matchup for Week 11 - KC (9-1) vs. LAR (9-1) at 8:15 PM ET on ESPN

[CommonCents]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Sounds like a lot of fake news to me.  

 

Rams and Chiefs would be just fine after one injury unless it was Goff/Mahomes that went down.  

Right. Gurley was dinged last night and the Rams seemed to do ok. 

[BringBackOrton]

54 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Umm he was putting up huge numbers.. did you miss the last three years in KC? The difference is he doesn’t have a cannon arm like Mahommes.  I also didn’t say ANYBODY.. I said any GOOD young QB would excel.. not duplicate or be equal to Mahommes but excel.. as in that O is stacked!! I say again Hill gets hurt they lose in the first round of the playoffs and lose badly! 

Then you totally missed 90% of their games. Both teams run threw Hill and Gurley.  Their is a reason why BOTH are over 1000 yards in O already respectively.  If it wasn’t for Hill the get destroyed last night as well as against NE. Hill is the difference maker on that team, is Mahommes good? Damn yes! Is he the most important player on that O? IMO nope! (And why do people fall back on “fake” news crap now.. lol)

Great post!!

 

IMO Mahommes was never “bust” possible as we saw him in 1 game and he did well last year so how they can say he was a “bust” is odd.  IMO they set that O up for any good You g QB to succeed. Kielce,Hunt, And Hill are a scary trio!

Mahomes is putting up high numbers in 10 games than Smith in his best 16 games there ever.

[PatsFanNH]

45 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

You turned into fake news when you started crapping on Garopolo for getting hurt.   

 

Mahomes is 50x more important than Hill, lock that in.  

Huh? I literally don’t recall ever crapping on Jimmy G? I like him!  I may have mentioned his only weakness so far is he gets hurt a lot. (Which isn’t crapping on him it’s an observation.he has had 2 major injuries in less than a full 16 games.)

 

lmao, they lose Hill you be the first one crapping all over Mahommes when he starts making more and more interceptions and getting sacked for indecions.  Kid is dang good but Hill is a freak of nature type talent.

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Mahomes is putting up high numbers in 10 games than Smith in his best 16 games there ever.

Thus the canon arm reference.  Mahommes is very good, I just believe Hill is more valuable.. I know I’d take Hill before Mahommes in a draft, knowing Hill would be his security blanket. 

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Huh? I literally don’t recall ever crapping on Jimmy G? I like him!  I may have mentioned his only weakness so far is he gets hurt a lot. (Which isn’t crapping on him it’s an observation.he has had 2 major injuries in less than a full 16 games.)

 

lmao, they lose Hill you be the first one crapping all over Mahommes when he starts making more and more interceptions and getting sacked for indecions.  Kid is dang good but Hill is a freak of nature type talent.

Thus the canon arm reference.  Mahommes is very good, I just believe Hill is more valuable.. I know I’d take Hill before Mahommes in a draft, knowing Hill would be his security blanket. 

 

A RB over a franchise QB in today's NFL?   No, no, and no!

[Avisan]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I know I’d take Hill before Mahommes in a draft, knowing Hill would be his security blanket. 

This is crazy.  If you didn't already have a top 10 QB in place you'd be 100% in the wrong.

[BringBackOrton]

36 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Huh? I literally don’t recall ever crapping on Jimmy G? I like him!  I may have mentioned his only weakness so far is he gets hurt a lot. (Which isn’t crapping on him it’s an observation.he has had 2 major injuries in less than a full 16 games.)

 

lmao, they lose Hill you be the first one crapping all over Mahommes when he starts making more and more interceptions and getting sacked for indecions.  Kid is dang good but Hill is a freak of nature type talent.

Thus the canon arm reference.  Mahommes is very good, I just believe Hill is more valuable.. I know I’d take Hill before Mahommes in a draft, knowing Hill would be his security blanket. 

You’re drunk. Imagine being a Pats fan for the last 18 years and thinking a WR is more valuable than a QB. Outrageous take, even for this crowd.

[mannc]

49 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Mahomes is putting up high numbers in 10 games than Smith in his best 16 games there ever.

Last year in this offense, Alex Smith threw for over 4000 yards, including 26 TDs and 5 ints, with an 8.6 YPA; by far the best numbers of his career, and outstanding for any QB.  Yes, Mahomes has exceeded those numbers, while throwing a lot more interceptions, but it's fair to wonder how much of Mahomes's production is a function of the system and the un-godly weapons at his disposal.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Last year in this offense, Alex Smith threw for over 4000 yards, including 26 TDs and 5 ints, with an 8.6 YPA; by far the best numbers of his career, and outstanding for any QB.  Yes, Mahomes has exceeded those numbers, while throwing a lot more interceptions, but it's fair to wonder how much of Mahomes's production is a function of the system and the un-godly weapons at his disposal.

Mahomes has thrown 10 more TDs in 6 less games. It’s not even close.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

Right. Gurley was dinged last night and the Rams seemed to do ok. 

Exactly.  There is very little dropoff from Gurley to Malcom Brown.  The Chiefs without Hill, though, are an entirely different offense.  I suspect there might be a dropoff without Kareem Hunt, as well.

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Mahomes has thrown 10 more TDs in 6 less games. It’s not even close.

The number of TD passes is not the be-all and end all.  And I'm not saying Alex Smith is better than Mahomes.  The point is, Alex Smith, a barely average QB for his entire career, put up numbers that would be the envy of pretty much any QB in the league.  Mahomes's numbers are absolutely a product (in significant part) of the system and the fact that he's playing with arguably the best RB, TE and WR in the league.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

Exactly.  There is very little dropoff from Gurley to Malcom Brown.  The Chiefs without Hill, though, are an entirely different offense.  I suspect there might be a dropoff without Kareem Hunt, as well.

The number of TD passes is not the be-all and end all.  And I'm not saying Alex Smith is better than Mahomes.  The point is, Alex Smith, a barely average QB for his entire career, put up numbers that would be the envy of pretty much any QB in the league.  Mahomes's numbers are absolutely a product (in significant part) of the system and the fact that he's playing with arguably the best RB, TE and WR in the league.

What league are you watching?  26 passing TD's the "envy of any QB in the league?"

 

3 QB's this year have already passed for 26 or more TD's in 10/11 games this year.

 

9 QB's last year finished with 26 or more TD's in 13/15/16 games.

 

12 QB's in 2016 finished with 26 or more TD's in 12/14/15/16 games.

 

13 QB's in 2015 finished with 26 or more TD's in 15/16 games.

 

You need to watch the league more and the Bills less.  Just because Peterman and Allen aspire to one day throw 26 TD's in a year doesn't mean the rest of the league considers that incredible.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Impossible to fathom that the Chiefs are 9-2 this year, and in the two games they lost they scored 40 and 51 points.

 

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What league are you watching?  26 passing TD's the "envy of any QB in the league?"

 

3 QB's this year have already passed for 26 or more TD's in 10/11 games this year.

 

9 QB's last year finished with 26 or more TD's in 13/15/16 games.

 

12 QB's in 2016 finished with 26 or more TD's in 12/14/15/16 games.

 

13 QB's in 2015 finished with 26 or more TD's in 15/16 games.

 

You need to watch the league more and the Bills less.  Just because Peterman and Allen aspire to one day throw 26 TD's in a year doesn't mean the rest of the league considers that incredible.

Why are you so focused on the number of TD passes?  How many QBs threw for more than 4000 yards, with a 26/5 TD/Int ratio and an 8.6 YPA?  Those are elite numbers.  You need to watch the league more.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Why are you so focused on the number of TD passes?  How many QBs threw for more than 4000 yards, with a 26/5 TD/Int ratio and an 8.6 YPA?  Those are elite numbers.  You need to watch the league more.

Because points matter in football.   You can pretend that 26 TD's/5 INT's is equal to 52 TD's and 10 INT's, but it ain't.

 

The top third of the league usually passes for 4000+ yards every year, btw.

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

A RB over a franchise QB in today's NFL?   No, no, and no!

Hill is a WR, Hunt is the RB.. Ithink Mahommes will be top 10 QB, Hill will be top 3 WR.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

Hill is a WR, Hunt is the RB.. Ithink Mahommes will be top 10 QB, Hill will be top 3 WR.

 

My bad, I was thinking Hunt instead of Hill.  Regardless, I'd take Mahomes.

[PatsFanNH]

43 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You’re drunk. Imagine being a Pats fan for the last 18 years and thinking a WR is more valuable than a QB. Outrageous take, even for this crowd.

Brady with his weapons in his prime (or second year like him)would be undefeated and the team wouldn’t have been close to losing.  His talent level around him is equvelent to what Brady has in 07..

 

Hill is a top 3 WR like Moss was, and Brady our up video game type numbers with him and Edelman.  Just like Mahommes is now.. does that make Mahommes a bad QB? Nope just he is doing this with a crap load of talent around him and I think Hill has been the biggest reason. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

Brady with his weapons in his prime (or second year like him)would be undefeated and the team wouldn’t have been close to losing.  His talent level around him is equvelent to what Brady has in 07..

 

Hill is a top 3 WR like Moss was, and Brady our up video game type numbers with him and Edelman.  Just like Mahommes is now.. does that make Mahommes a bad QB? Nope just he is doing this with a crap load of talent around him and I think Hill has been the biggest reason. 

And Brady was infinitely more valuable than Moss, demonstrated by what Brady did without Moss and what Moss did without Brady.

 

Imagine saying you'd take Moss over Brady in a draft.  You're such a bad troll dude.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Because points matter in football.   You can pretend that 26 TD's/5 INT's is equal to 52 TD's and 10 INT's, but it ain't.

 

The top third of the league usually passes for 4000+ yards every year, btw.

Well put. Some folks don't think raw figures like total yards or TDs aren't important, and while I agree they don't tell the whole story it's important to keep in mind that efficiency doesn't always trump pure production. Like you say, doubling an 'efficient' QB's total yards and TDs equals a more productive offense even though efficiency-wise it's a static equation, primarily because (in terms of TD/INT%) one TD=6 points and one INT=/=-6 points. It's not a one-for-one situation...in fact you could easily argue that a net decrease in TD/INT ratio would yield better results overall, for example 26/5 doesn't benefit the offense as much as 50/12. Context matters a lot wrt QB statistics.

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

And Brady was infinitely more valuable than Moss, demonstrated by what Brady did without Moss and what Moss did without Brady.

 

Imagine saying you'd take Moss over Brady in a draft.  You're such a bad troll dude.

Brady did it BEFORE Moss. We don’t know what Mahommes will do if/when he doesn’t have Hill.  IMO Mahommes is an unknown, while Hill had similar success with a QB who didn’t have the arm make the deep throws.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

Brady did it BEFORE Moss. We don’t know what Mahommes will do if/when he doesn’t have Hill.  IMO Mahommes is an unknown, while Hill had similar success with a QB who didn’t have the arm make the deep throws.

Okay, let me put it this way.  If you think Hill has more hypothetical trade value than Mahomes today, you're the only person who thinks that.  In the world.  Tyreek Hill doesn't think that.  Maybe his mother does, but probably not.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Because points matter in football.   You can pretend that 26 TD's/5 INT's is equal to 52 TD's and 10 INT's, but it ain't.

 

The top third of the league usually passes for 4000+ yards every year, btw.

You're really getting into clown territory now.  I never, ever said Alex Smith was as good as Mahomes, or that he put up better numbers than Mahomes.  Please pay attention.

 

Alex Smith is a career mediocrity, a dinker and dunker, a guy whose numbers before last year bore an eerie similarity to those of Tyrod Taylor.  And yet his numbers last year in KC were as good or better than Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees.  And he only played in 15 regular season games.  

[Haze_21]

5 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

You did read all his post right? He said with the weapons around him any good Young QB would excel.  The key for KC is Hill. If Hill gets hurt their season is over, just like if Gurley gets hurt the Rams are toast.  

 

While I agree hill is opening up the offense in a way that is unquantifiable mahomes would still be great without him. I dont think their  season is over without hill, but he is their best player outside of mahomes and it would be a huge blow. I'm not sure i take any wr in the league over him.

[BringBackOrton]

20 minutes ago, mannc said:

You're really getting into clown territory now.  I never, ever said Alex Smith was as good as Mahomes, or that he put up better numbers than Mahomes.  Please pay attention.

 

Alex Smith is a career mediocrity, a dinker and dunker, a guy whose numbers before last year bore an eerie similarity to those of Tyrod Taylor.  And yet his numbers last year in KC were as good or better than Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees.  And he only played in 15 regular season games.  

Tell me where I said you did.  Take your own advice bro.

 

Alex Smith is not "eeriely similar" to Tyrod Taylor.  That's a gross mischaracterization of a fine QB whose jock is better than Taylor.  

 

2017 was an anomalous year in terms of passing.  I just demonstrated that above.

 

Yes, Alex Smith had one of the best years of his career in 2017.  However, it was merely above average based on the rest of the league.  Bottom line, Alex Smith's best year was worse than:

 

Matt Ryan (2012, 2016)

Aaron Rodgers (2009, 2011, 2014, 2016)

Phillip Rivers (2006, 2008, 2011)

Cam Newton (2015)

Drew Brees (2004, 2008, 2011, 2013)

Tom Brady (2007, 2010,  2011, 2012, 2017)

Russell Wilson (2014, 2015)

 

And I promise you, when Mahomes finishes this year, he will have a better year than half of that list of individual seasons, if not more.  

 

What Alex Smith did was have a good year.  Mahomes is cruising past HoF QB's best seasons.  We will talk about Mahomes 2018 season like we do Brady in 2007 or Peyton in 2013.

Edited November 20, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Tell me where I said you did.  Take your own advice bro.

 

Alex Smith is not "eeriely similar" to Tyrod Taylor.  That's a gross mischaracterization of a fine QB whose jock is better than Taylor.  

 

2017 was an anomalous year in terms of passing.  I just demonstrated that above.

 

Yes, Alex Smith had one of the best years of his career in 2017.  However, it was merely above average based on the rest of the league.  Bottom line, Alex Smith's best year was worse than:

 

Matt Ryan (2012, 2016)

Aaron Rodgers (2009, 2011, 2014, 2016)

Phillip Rivers (2006, 2008, 2011)

Cam Newton (2015)

Drew Brees (2004, 2008, 2011, 2013)

Tom Brady (2007, 2010,  2011, 2012, 2017)

Russell Wilson (2014, 2015)

 

And I promise you, when Mahomes finishes this year, he will have a better year than half of that list of individual seasons, if not more.  

 

What Alex Smith did was have a good year.  Mahomes is cruising past HoF QB's best seasons.  We will talk about Mahomes 2018 season like we do Brady in 2007 or Peyton in 2013.

Look, I think we are largely in agreement, but for some reason, you decided to add snarky comments to the discussion and decided I was trying to argue that Smith is as good as Mahomes.

 

I believe Mahomes is a really good QB.  In fact, if there was a draft tomorrow and every player in the league was eligible for it, I have no doubt that Mahomes would be the first player picked.  However, I think his astronomical numbers are aided significantly by the system he plays in, as well as the fact that the Chiefs have an excellent o-line, and arguably the best TE, WR and RB in the league.  I don't think I've seen a team with weapons like this since the '99 Rams, with Kurt Warner, etc.  The fact that Alex Smith, the original Captain Checkdown, had by far the best year of his career last year in this offense provides support for this theory. 

 

Even though he threw for six TDs and tons of yards last night, Mahomes showed some holes in his game.  A lot of the big yardage plays he makes are dropoffs to Hunt and Hill or throws to wide open guys, like Hill on the 74-yard bomb.  (Hill almost literally broke the DB's ankle on that play.)  Mahomes made a lot of mistakes that probably cost his team the game and made me think that KC is unlikely to get past NE or Pittsburgh in January, at least this year.      

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look, I think we are largely in agreement, but for some reason, you decided to add snarky comments to the discussion and decided I was trying to argue that Smith is as good as Mahomes.

 

I believe Mahomes is a really good QB.  In fact, if there was a draft tomorrow and every player in the league was eligible for it, I have no doubt that Mahomes would be the first player picked.  However, I think his astronomical numbers are aided significantly by the system he plays in, as well as the fact that the Chiefs have an excellent o-line, and arguably the best TE, WR and RB in the league.  I don't think I've seen a team with weapons like this since the '99 Rams, with Kurt Warner, etc.  The fact that Alex Smith, the original Captain Checkdown, had by far the best year of his career last year in this offense provides support for this theory. 

 

Even though he threw for six TDs and tons of yards last night, Mahomes showed some holes in his game.  A lot of the big yardage plays he makes are dropoffs to Hunt and Hill or throws to wide open guys, like Hill on the 74-yard bomb.  (Hill almost literally broke the DB's ankle on that play.)  Mahomes made a lot of mistakes that probably cost his team the game and made me think that KC is unlikely to get past NE or Pittsburgh in January, at least this year.      

I don’t deny the Chiefs are loaded with talent. I just think that Mahomes is head and shoulders better than Alex Smith and we’re seeing that translate to the field. And Alex Smith is a good QB. Being head and shoulders above an established franchise/fringe franchise guy in your first season as a starter is REMARKABLE.

 

I know it’s said a lot “put him in the HoF now!!” by his detractors. And I know careers can be up and down, there’s flashes in the pan etc.

 

But. If you had to put money on what QB under 30 in the NFL today would make the HoF, Vegas wouldn’t give you favorable odds on Mahomes. He’d be the leader in the clubhouse EASY.

 

That’s remarkable for a kid after 12 starts. REMARKABLE.

[C.Biscuit97]

I’m calling it now: Bills-Jags will be a much more exciting game than last night!

31 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look, I think we are largely in agreement, but for some reason, you decided to add snarky comments to the discussion and decided I was trying to argue that Smith is as good as Mahomes.

 

I believe Mahomes is a really good QB.  In fact, if there was a draft tomorrow and every player in the league was eligible for it, I have no doubt that Mahomes would be the first player picked.  However, I think his astronomical numbers are aided significantly by the system he plays in, as well as the fact that the Chiefs have an excellent o-line, and arguably the best TE, WR and RB in the league.  I don't think I've seen a team with weapons like this since the '99 Rams, with Kurt Warner, etc.  The fact that Alex Smith, the original Captain Checkdown, had by far the best year of his career last year in this offense provides support for this theory. 

 

Even though he threw for six TDs and tons of yards last night, Mahomes showed some holes in his game.  A lot of the big yardage plays he makes are dropoffs to Hunt and Hill or throws to wide open guys, like Hill on the 74-yard bomb.  (Hill almost literally broke the DB's ankle on that play.)  Mahomes made a lot of mistakes that probably cost his team the game and made me think that KC is unlikely to get past NE or Pittsburgh in January, at least this year.      

Smith had 26 tds in 16 games.  Mahomes has 37 so far in his 1st year as a nfl starter.

 

if you try to say anything other than Mahomes is amazing, you’re just wrong.  He is a special talent on a good team.  Imagine if a Bills had half of his numbers?  We would be ready to put him on the Wall.

[MAJBobby]

Hell of a game. Exciting and exactly what the NFL Wants. 

 

That was Modern Football. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Hell of a game. Exciting and exactly what the NFL Wants. 

 

That was Modern Football. 

Disagree. I’m a big fan of field goals and punts.  Last night’s game was yuck with all their touchdowns and big plays. Gross.

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, Haze_21 said:

 

While I agree hill is opening up the offense in a way that is unquantifiable mahomes would still be great without him. I dont think their  season is over without hill, but he is their best player outside of mahomes and it would be a huge blow. I'm not sure i take any wr in the league over him.

I think Mahomes would be good without Hill, I am not sure about great.. we won’t know that till he has play some games without him.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

Posting...because it was a fan-f***ing-tastic game that still deserves kudos a day later.

 

...so damn good.  So much fun.

[billsfan89]

This game delivered big time, a true masterpiece of football. Don't let the high score fool you as there was 3 defensive TD's and several turnovers forced by the defense so while by any metric this game was a high scoring affair this game had great input from both defenses. Its also great to see a new generation of young QB's. Goff and Mahomes are great, Wentz and Watson could be big time too if they recover from their injuries, even Trubisky a player most wrote off as a bust is looking like a viable QB. That's potentially 5 really good young QB's to come into the league in back to back seasons. 

 

Marioata and Winston aren't looking so hot but either one could still turn it around. Then you have this current rookie class that could yield multiple good QB's. Even guys like Luck and Cam Newton are still in their prime and continuing to play at a high level. Toss in Matty Ice and Matthew Stafford who are still likely to have 5-6 good years left and you are looking at the NFL having pretty good QB play for the next decade. That's nothing to say of the vet QB's that are still playing at a high level like Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers all of whom could play 2-4 more seasons at a high levle. 

 

I know the rules of the NFL are making it easier to play QB and score more in general but it felt like for years that the NFL was just not having many good QB's entering into the draft. You would be lucky to get 1 Matty Ice trickle in now and again. Now in a lot of drafts it seems like you are seeing good QB's come in much more consistently. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]