CA fires

[BeginnersMind]

The fire discussion was in the “boarder” thread for etymological reasons I did not trace. 

 

Trump says the fires  are the result of Forest mismanagement. No doubt after hours of long study of the problem. 

 

Fires are natural. Clearing deadfall and many other tasks are not and are terrible for the health of forests. And at the edges of community and forest, fires will happen, especially in areas known to have dry spells.

 

There is no way to avoid it and it’s probably the price people have to accept when living there. Just like accepting flooding when living near the ocean or in a flood zone (hi New Orleans).

 

We waste a ton of money trying to terraform for convenience. Some projects may be worth it but some are absurd. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[/dev/null]

Not to mention the fact that until a little over a hundred years ago Southern California was a borderline desert.  The aqueduct system turned it into a borderline paradise attracting millions of people. 

 

But the aqueduct system has not been upgraded to meet the increased population

[BeginnersMind]

9 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

Not to mention the fact that until a little over a hundred years ago Southern California was a borderline desert.  The aqueduct system turned it into a borderline paradise attracting millions of people. 

 

But the aqueduct system has not been upgraded to meet the increased population

 

Now you did it. DC Tom and 3rd will be here any second on this topic. 

[Teddy KGB]

Trump wah Trump wah Trump wah Trump 

 

[boyst]

Listen butthurt, the problem is as Trump said. Forest mismanagement. in North Carolina there are very strong penalties for not managing your woodland forestry. I don't know what the hell is California's problem is besides overpopulation and too much bureaucracy to protect the snowflake but they need to be doing controlled Burns and prescribed Burns in the overpopulated area. 

 

This is 100% California for you they would have saved thousands of lives from being affected and probably hundreds from being taken by controlling population control and density through urban planning in better understanding of nature.

 

You mentioning Trump in this at all just proves you're not logic but in fact stupid

[ALF]

“Moreover, nearly 60 percent of California forests are under federal management, and another two-thirds under private control.

 

https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/11/trump-blames-state-fires-but-many-worst-federal-land/1971196002/

[BeginnersMind]

15 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Listen butthurt, the problem is as Trump said. Forest mismanagement. in North Carolina there are very strong penalties for not managing your woodland forestry. I don't know what the hell is California's problem is besides overpopulation and too much bureaucracy to protect the snowflake but they need to be doing controlled Burns and prescribed Burns in the overpopulated area. 

2

 

Do you believe, like Trump, that the federal government can prevent forest fires? How about hurricanes and blizzards? 

 

Quote

 

This is 100% California for you they would have saved thousands of lives from being affected and probably hundreds from being taken by controlling population control and density through urban planning ...

 

 

Of that there is little doubt. But that's not a forestry issue. 

 

I mentioned Trump because Trump jumped in on the issue to lay blame. You have more faith in his research ability than me. 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, ALF said:

“Moreover, nearly 60 percent of California forests are under federal management, and another two-thirds under private control.

 

https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/11/trump-blames-state-fires-but-many-worst-federal-land/1971196002/

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/03/lack-of-controlled-burns-contributing-to-california-wildfires/amp/

 

 

Try harder. Learn more.  Sit down. Shut up

4 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Do you believe, like Trump, that the federal government can prevent forest fires? How about hurricanes and blizzards? 

 

 

Of that there is little doubt. But that's not a forestry issue. 

 

I mentioned Trump because Trump jumped in on the issue to lay blame. You have more faith in his research ability than me. 

 

 

 

You just can't resist the dig in Trump.  But, these forests didn't grow into the fire concern in the last year.  They were started in 2008 when Obama was president and clearly, they're Obama's fault.

 

But, only YOU can prevent forest fires.  Dummy.

 

 

In all seriousness I would love to give a reasonable reply but you're a piece of ***** so I'm not going towaste my time.

[B-Man]

Meet the ‘badass nurse’ who drove his Toyota pickup truck BACK INTO PARADISE to rescue patients

 

............

 

 

[3rdnlng]

4 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Now you did it. DC Tom and 3rd will be here any second on this topic. 

I already won this argument with actual logic. I have no need to treat DC Tom as my ****. He has his issues and I'm not going to put him through further humiliation. After all, playing Pete Davidson to my Dan Crenshaw has to be hard on his psyche.

[BeginnersMind]

13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I already won this argument with actual logic. I have no need to treat DC Tom as my ****. He has his issues and I'm not going to put him through further humiliation. After all, playing Pete Davidson to my Dan Crenshaw has to be hard on his psyche.

 

Tom is the kind of guy who will take his beating and not respond. I admire his humility, a lot. 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

I already won this argument with actual logic. I have no need to treat DC Tom as my ****. He has his issues and I'm not going to put him through further humiliation. After all, playing Pete Davidson to my Dan Crenshaw has to be hard on his psyche.

 

No, you didn't.  You didn't use logic.  You didn't even use sense.  "Desert...irrigation...forest fires!   I win!"

 

That's not a argument.  That's more like a cognitive spasm.

[boyst]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

Meet the ‘badass nurse’ who drove his Toyota pickup truck BACK INTO PARADISE to rescue patients

 

............

 

 

Dude needs a Chevy 

[3rdnlng]

26 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

No, you didn't.  You didn't use logic.  You didn't even use sense.  "Desert...irrigation...forest fires!   I win!"

 

That's not a argument.  That's more like a cognitive spasm.

You misunderstood my rather clear contention and then stuck to that misunderstanding with a rather fierce obtuseness. With that I nominate you with the fifth annual Gleeful Gator award, narrowly inching out Gleeful Gator himself for the award.

[Gary M]

On 11/13/2018 at 8:00 AM, BeginnersMind said:

 

Do you believe, like Trump, that the federal government can prevent forest fires? How about hurricanes and blizzards? 

 

 

 

[Warren Zevon]

 

[3rdnlng]

Where have I heard this before?

 

 

[GG]

3 hours ago, peace out said:

 

 

Did the fire last 8 nights?

[TakeYouToTasker]

Ya know, I think God is just trying to tell us to go ahead and burn the whole state down and start over.

[Cinga]

here is a story of good forest management

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/2/apache-forest-management-fights-wildfires/

 

I go to the Tonto Forest almost every year, and have watched them prep for a controlled burn... Makes for a much healthier forest . I read one that when settlers got here, there was an average of 40 trees per acre in forest areas but the trees were massive and majestic, easily withstanding a woods fire.. Now we have about 1200 per acre, and they grow tall and skinny, ripe for fire(wood)

[B-Man]

 

'PEAK stupidity' --> You think you've seen it all and then a forest fire truther thread shows up on Twitter

 

 

 

[3rdnlng]

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

'PEAK stupidity' --> You think you've seen it all and then a forest fire truther thread shows up on Twitter

 

 

 

I wonder if any of those cars had gasoline in their tanks? I heard that gasoline was inflammable.

[Kemp]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:47 AM, Boyst62 said:

Listen butthurt, the problem is as Trump said. Forest mismanagement. in North Carolina there are very strong penalties for not managing your woodland forestry. I don't know what the hell is California's problem is besides overpopulation and too much bureaucracy to protect the snowflake but they need to be doing controlled Burns and prescribed Burns in the overpopulated area. 

 

This is 100% California for you they would have saved thousands of lives from being affected and probably hundreds from being taken by controlling population control and density through urban planning in better understanding of nature.

 

You mentioning Trump in this at all just proves you're not logic but in fact stupid

 

Funny how some go straight to the gay stuff. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. 

[3rdnlng]

19 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Funny how some go straight to the gay stuff. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. 

Butthurt is gay? Do you see gayness in everything? Stay away from mirrors.

[boyst]

58 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Funny how some go straight to the gay stuff. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. 

What's wrong with me being a homosexual?

[boyst]

[GG]

On 11/13/2018 at 5:09 AM, BeginnersMind said:

The fire discussion was in the “boarder” thread for etymological reasons I did not trace. 

 

Trump says the fires  are the result of Forest mismanagement. No doubt after hours of long study of the problem. 

 

Fires are natural. Clearing deadfall and many other tasks are not and are terrible for the health of forests. And at the edges of community and forest, fires will happen, especially in areas known to have dry spells.

 

There is no way to avoid it and it’s probably the price people have to accept when living there. Just like accepting flooding when living near the ocean or in a flood zone (hi New Orleans).

 

We waste a ton of money trying to terraform for convenience. Some projects may be worth it but some are absurd. 

 

Or, maybe not

 

Quote

 

Obscured amid the chaos of California’s latest wildfire outbreak is a striking sign of change that may help curtail future devastating infernos. After decades of butting heads, some environmentalists and logging supporters have largely come to agreement that forests need to be logged to be saved.

....

Now, the unlikely coalition is pushing new programs to thin out forests and clear underbrush. In 2017, California joined with the U.S. Forest Service and other groups in creating the Tahoe-Central Sierra Initiative, which aims to thin millions of trees from about 2.4 million acres of forest—believed to be the largest such state-federal project in the country.

....

“We need to try new things because what we’ve done in the past hasn’t worked,” said David Edelson, Sierra Nevada project director of the Nature Conservancy, a nonprofit that is part of the new thinning partnership.

 

 

[BeginnersMind]

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

Or, maybe not

 

 

 

Clearing underbrush is not good for forest health. But it helps prevent fires. 

 

None of this has a simple solution or blame to be placed. 

[3rdnlng]

https://newspunch.com/california-gov-jerry-brown-rejected-wildfire-management-bill/

 

With climate change, some scientists are saying Southern California is literally burning up, and burning up as maybe a metaphor or a description not just to the fires right here, but what we can expect over the next years and decades,” Brown said, without an ounce of proof.

Canadafreepress.com reports: Today, as California burns once again under torrential wildfires, many Californians have been asking why the dramatic increase in wildfires in the last five years… that is everyone except Governor Jerry Brown. Governor Brown claims that year-round, devastating fires are the “new normal” we must accept.

Megan Barth and I reported Monday:

“Supporting Obama-era regulations have resulted in the new normal: an endless and devastating fire season. Obama-era regulations introduced excessive layers of bureaucracy that blocked proper forest management and increased environmentalist litigation and costs—a result of far too many radical environmentalists, bureaucrats, Leftist politicians and judicial activists who would rather let forests burn, than let anyone thin out overgrown trees or let professional loggers harvest usable timber left from beetle infestation, or collectively cut timber.”

 

Mismanaged, overcrowded forests provide fuel to historic California wildfires, experts say. The 129 million dead trees throughout California’s forests are serving as matchsticks and kindling.

Jerry Brown, busy mulling ways to prevent the end of the world, took the Clinton and Obama-era gross regulations a step even further when he vetoed a bipartisan wildfire management bill in 2016.

Edited November 16, 2018 by 3rdnlng

[DC Tom]

My new favorite conspiracy theory: California wildfires are caused by lasers and intended to clear the land for the bullet train.

 

 

[billsfan89]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:47 AM, Boyst62 said:

Listen butthurt, the problem is as Trump said. Forest mismanagement. in North Carolina there are very strong penalties for not managing your woodland forestry. I don't know what the hell is California's problem is besides overpopulation and too much bureaucracy to protect the snowflake but they need to be doing controlled Burns and prescribed Burns in the overpopulated area. 

 

This is 100% California for you they would have saved thousands of lives from being affected and probably hundreds from being taken by controlling population control and density through urban planning in better understanding of nature.

 

You mentioning Trump in this at all just proves you're not logic but in fact stupid

 

Doesn't California have issues with drought that makes the conditions for large fires to happen easier? I think it might not be an apples to apples comparison to North Carolina. Just to be clear I don't know if specific policies have made the conditions worse but it seems like the droughts have made the conditions different from a lot of other states. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by billsfan89

[IDBillzFan]

35 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

My new favorite conspiracy theory: California wildfires are caused by lasers and intended to clear the land for the bullet train.

 

Here's the sad thing about CA. We both know that theory is ridiculous. There is no question.

 

But if you woke up tomorrow and found out the Supermajority CA Dems  were burning down half the state to get their bullet train moving, would anyone be surprised?

 

No.

 

No, they wouldn't. 

[boyst]

33 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Doesn't California have issues with drought that makes the conditions for large fires to happen easier? I think it might not be an apples to apples comparison to North Carolina. Just to be clear I don't know if specific policies have made the conditions worse but it seems like the droughts have made the conditions different from a lot of other states. 

Mismanagement and over population.

[BeginnersMind]

9 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Doesn't California have issues with drought that makes the conditions for large fires to happen easier? I think it might not be an apples to apples comparison to North Carolina. Just to be clear I don't know if specific policies have made the conditions worse but it seems like the droughts have made the conditions different from a lot of other states. 

 

Stop making sense. There are no huge forest fires in the Amazon either and they don’t clear underbrush. This is a lot more complicated than clearing underbrush (as if that’s easy and good for forest health). This fire jumped highways and given the size it encompassed, you couldn’t clear all the underbrush. 

 

Lots of moving parts to these fires. There is no simple solution. Not solvable in a tweet. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[Thurmal34]

631 missing so far - but I haven’t checked since beginning of Sabres game so that number could have changed. 

 

Either way, nothing political about this except for Dear Leader inciting his minions, right?

 

Dry weather, power lines vulnerable to falling limbs, and high winds. 

 

Right?

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Doesn't California have issues with drought that makes the conditions for large fires to happen easier? I think it might not be an apples to apples comparison to North Carolina. Just to be clear I don't know if specific policies have made the conditions worse but it seems like the droughts have made the conditions different from a lot of other states. 

 

Not exactly.  Most of the state has distinct rainy and dry seasons (roughly December to March, and April to November, respectively), and a couple of years ago the rainy season was rather rainier than average.  This led to abundant new vegetation growth, that is now providing a good amount of fuel in the current dry season.  That's compounded by the Santa Ana winds from the mountains, which enhance the fires and make them fast-moving.  

 

The recent drought has something to do with it - it killed a lot of trees, which provides more fuel.  But in a lot of the pictures you see, the trees are still standing (e.g. here), although scorched.  So it's not the trees that are serving as fuel, so much as the brush that's grown since the rain they had about 20 months ago.  It's not coincidental that the worst fire right now (the Camp Fire) is practically on top of Oroville Dam, that had the spillway failure from excessive rain in February 2017.

[DC Tom]

 

 

More than any other fire footage, this shocked me.

 

 

Imagine the panic that all those medical supplies and equipment being scattered around represents.

[Azalin]

20 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

More than any other fire footage, this shocked me.

 

 

Imagine the panic that all those medical supplies and equipment being scattered around represents.

 

It certainly offers a different perspective of just how terrifying it must be to be in the path of a raging wildfire.

[3rdnlng]

10 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not exactly.  Most of the state has distinct rainy and dry seasons (roughly December to March, and April to November, respectively), and a couple of years ago the rainy season was rather rainier than average.  This led to abundant new vegetation growth, that is now providing a good amount of fuel in the current dry season.  That's compounded by the Santa Ana winds from the mountains, which enhance the fires and make them fast-moving.  

 

The recent drought has something to do with it - it killed a lot of trees, which provides more fuel.  But in a lot of the pictures you see, the trees are still standing (e.g. here), although scorched.  So it's not the trees that are serving as fuel, so much as the brush that's grown since the rain they had about 20 months ago.  It's not coincidental that the worst fire right now (the Camp Fire) is practically on top of Oroville Dam, that had the spillway failure from excessive rain in February 2017.

So, you're saying it's really all about the water, eh? Water and water rights have always been an issue in most of the west. We here in the east don't get the wide variations in rainfall that the west does. The west receives not only variations within a year but from year to year, decade to decade. Many areas aren't naturally set up to be habitated. (FU Spellcheck, "habitated" is a word) It's like building a city below sea level in a hurricane zone. California is overpopulated for the rain it gets. Couple that with its politics and love for Delta Smelt and it will always have major problems. Just ask Jake Gittes.

[BeginnersMind]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

So, you're saying it's really all about the water, eh? Water and water rights have always been an issue in most of the west. We here in the east don't get the wide variations in rainfall that the west does. The west receives not only variations within a year but from year to year, decade to decade. Many areas aren't naturally set up to be habitated. (FU Spellcheck, "habitated" is a word) It's like building a city below sea level in a hurricane zone. California is overpopulated for the rain it gets. Couple that with its politics and love for Delta Smelt and it will always have major problems. Just ask Jake Gittes.

 

Comparing to NO is apt. It's only a matter of time...and the only way to extend the time is spending billions of dollars. Fires in CA are no different.