Paulus Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Koko78 said: I like the part about how a vast majority of people don't like her. Just like they said about Trump, kiddo. 4 hours ago, Swill Merchant said: Say what you will about AOC, she's the only one telling the truth about what the Democrats are doing. She's learning to Washington just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 hours ago, SoCoBills said: A lot to comment on here from this thread: 1. 70% Tax - This is a marginal tax rate which will only impact earnings over 10 million. If you don't make $10 million plus per year you will not be taxed this high. Also all 10 million is not taxed at 70%. Say you made 12 million in 2019. Only 2 million of that would be subject to the 70% marginal tax rate. This is how things were in the 50s, 60s and 70s before Reagan messed it up. These periods were considered times of great prosperity. Since this was changed, income inequality in this country has gotten insanely out of hand as now the top not even 1% but 0.1% earns 90% of all new income in this country. Put it this way - our parents used to be able to support their families comfortably by having only 1 parent work 1 full time job. The mothers/wives were typically expected and able to upkeep the home and care for the children. Nowadays though we can't afford to do that. Now both parents must work full time jobs to live paycheck to paycheck while our kids are raised at daycares. It all boils down to a rigged economy due to money in politics resulting in legislation that favors those who lobby - the rich. Call it Socialism because that's the GOP scare tactic but it's a mixed economy. 2. Sexism - lots of big strong men in here think they are all cool and bad ass awesome trying to invalidate her ideas based on her appearance and resorting to sexual jokes and comments. I read these comments and can't help but cringe at how pathetic it all is. SAD! I got more but I'll stop here. I've found that talking and giving facts doesn't help anymore. People don't care about facts. People now root for their political parties much like we as Bills fans root for the Bills and so words, facts, morals, and even your own quality of living doesn't matter to you - you'd rather root, root, root for the home team. It was JFK who lowered the tax rates. Inflation destroyed the single paycheck nuclear family. AOC is an idiot ideologue what lacks common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: How very ungrateful and not patriotic for what your country provides. They are indebted to this country. Their safety, peace, security... of a modern society is provided... And the ability to still be 20x wealthier than the other poor slob. Yes, comrade. 5 hours ago, Warcodered said: So your saying it's perfectly normal to shutdown the government because congress won't pass one specific thing you want....that's insane. I guess none of us owe the government anything for the civilization they've surrounded us in. Also considering this I get the feeling you don't think the government should do much at all which makes having any kind of debate with you about the shutdown rather pointless. Yes, comrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Yes, comrade. Yes, comrade. Hey... It's your Pal that is collaborating with the Rooskies. Nice to see you getting the proper responses nailed down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Hey... It's your Pal that is collaborating with the Rooskies. Nice to see you getting the proper responses nailed down... What, Trump arranged that $150,000,000 from the Russians to the Clinton Foundation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: What, Trump arranged that $150,000,000 from the Russians to the Clinton Foundation? Clinton Bad!© NEWSFLASH Sparky: Hillary lost. Move on. It's Trump's baby now & no Deplorable Snowflake strawman can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Merchant Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: How very ungrateful and not patriotic for what your country provides. They are indebted to this country. Their safety, peace, security... of a modern society is provided... And the ability to still be 20x wealthier than the other poor slob. I can't tell if you're trolling me or if this is a sincere answer. If the latter, conflating government and country is your first problem. The second is you bypassed identifying the situation to jump to a moral case for it. By the nature of your response I take it you believe that it should be permissible to unilaterally take the property of another however you see fit and to whatever extent you choose, as long as you leave him with enough to live in reasonable comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said: I can't tell if you're trolling me or if this is a sincere answer. If the latter, conflating government and country is your first problem. The second is you bypassed identifying the situation to jump to a moral case for it. By the nature of your response I take it you believe that it should be permissible to unilaterally take the property of another however you see fit and to whatever extent you choose, as long as you leave him with enough to live in reasonable comfort. Oh cry me a river... Over drama, emotionalize like some Jack Boot gov't thug is taking your life away. I am by far not the first and won't be the last: https://www.adamsmith.org/the-wealth-of-nations/ Edited January 17, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Merchant Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Warcodered said: So your saying it's perfectly normal to shutdown the government because congress won't pass one specific thing you want....that's insane. I guess none of us owe the government anything for the civilization they've surrounded us in. Also considering this I get the feeling you don't think the government should do much at all which makes having any kind of debate with you about the shutdown rather pointless. Couldn't find a gif of a white flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said: I can't tell if you're trolling me or if this is a sincere answer. If the latter, conflating government and country is your first problem. The second is you bypassed identifying the situation to jump to a moral case for it. By the nature of your response I take it you believe that it should be permissible to unilaterally take the property of another however you see fit and to whatever extent you choose, as long as you leave him with enough to live in reasonable comfort. He's a glorified toll gate operator and Asian Carp crossing guard with cozy hours and a comfortable pay rate, while having a guaranteed job and pension. He's been sucking off the public teet so long that he has no comprehension of what it's like to actually have to perform for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Merchant Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Oh cry me a river... Over drama, emotionalize like some Jack Boot gov't thug is taking your life away. I am by far not the first and won't be the last: https://www.adamsmith.org/the-wealth-of-nations/ Did you believe this to be a worthy retort? 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: He's a glorified toll gate operator and Asian Carp crossing guard with cozy hours and a comfortable pay rate, while having a guaranteed job and pension. He's been sucking off the public teet so long that he has no comprehension of what it's like to actually have to perform for a living. I see. He does not strike me as a thinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Swill Merchant said: Did you believe this to be a worthy retort? Yes. Adam Smith favored progressive taxes. Who the hell else is going to pay (for a safe modern society) and still live comfortably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCoBills Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Nanker said: It was JFK who lowered the tax rates. Inflation destroyed the single paycheck nuclear family. AOC is an idiot ideologue what lacks common sense. This is a misleading half truth. JFK lowered tax rates across the board but the highest marginal tax rate was reduced from 91% to 70% by JFK which is in line with Ocasio-Cortez. Today the highest rate is about 40%. When Reagan came in with his Reaganomics he lowered it down to 50% in 1981 and then down further to 28% in 1986. As for Ocasio-Cortez and her intelligence level I find it hilarious that people like you feel the desperate need to relentlessly attack her - a freshman congresswoman who has been on the job for what, a week? She's only 29 years old and she is inexperienced but she does have a bachelor's in international relations and economics. You call her stupid and yet you will give all of Trump's stupidity a pass because of team sport mentality allegiance to all things GOP? If anyone's intelligence should be under question it isn't that of a freshman congresswoman, it is the President of the United States. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Yes. Adam Smith favored progressive taxes. Who the hell else is going to pay (for a safe modern society) and still live comfortably? Let me slow it down for you, the argument isn't about whether people should be paying taxes, but at which point do taxes become forcible confiscation of private property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: He's a glorified toll gate operator and Asian Carp crossing guard with cozy hours and a comfortable pay rate, while having a guaranteed job and pension. He's been sucking off the public teet so long that he has no comprehension of what it's like to actually have to perform for a living. Why the personal attack? I work for a living? What do you do Rich? Work for the GOP? 2 minutes ago, GG said: Let me slow it down for you, the argument isn't about whether people should be paying taxes, but at which point do taxes become forcible confiscation of private property. Oh... It's about paying taxes. Yet, I will answer your question: $.01 Edited January 17, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, SoCoBills said: This is a misleading half truth. JFK lowered tax rates across the board but the highest marginal tax rate was reduced from 91% to 70% by JFK which is in line with Ocasio-Cortez. Today the highest rate is about 40%. When Reagan came in with his Reaganomics he lowered it down to 50% in 1981 and then down further to 28% in 1986. As for Ocasio-Cortez and her intelligence level I find it hilarious that people like you feel the desperate need to relentlessly attack her - a freshman congresswoman who has been on the job for what, a week? She's only 29 years old and she is inexperienced but she does have a bachelor's in international relations and economics. You call her stupid and yet you will give all of Trump's stupidity a pass because of team sport mentality allegiance to all things GOP? If anyone's intelligence should be under question it isn't that of a freshman congresswoman, it is the President of the United States. We've had decades of debates about people who throw our percentages without providing or understanding the context of what those percentages represent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said: I see. He does not strike me as a thinker. Eric, a thinker? I'll forgive you because you're relatively new, but please watch what you say. My keyboard does not act favorably to spittal. Eric's HS graduation picture: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Why the personal attack? I work for a living? What do you do Rich? Work for the GOP? Oh... It about paying taxes. Yet, I will answer your question: $.01 No it is not. It is about the cockamamie claim that the rich don't pay their fair share, even though the rich pay a highly disproportionate share of income tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Eric Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, SoCoBills said: This is a misleading half truth. JFK lowered tax rates across the board but the highest marginal tax rate was reduced from 91% to 70% by JFK which is in line with Ocasio-Cortez. Today the highest rate is about 40%. When Reagan came in with his Reaganomics he lowered it down to 50% in 1981 and then down further to 28% in 1986. As for Ocasio-Cortez and her intelligence level I find it hilarious that people like you feel the desperate need to relentlessly attack her - a freshman congresswoman who has been on the job for what, a week? She's only 29 years old and she is inexperienced but she does have a bachelor's in international relations and economics. You call her stupid and yet you will give all of Trump's stupidity a pass because of team sport mentality allegiance to all things GOP? If anyone's intelligence should be under question it isn't that of a freshman congresswoman, it is the President of the United States. No, we call Trump stupid, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GG said: No it is not. It is about the cockamamie claim that the rich don't pay their fair share, even though the rich pay a highly disproportionate share of income tax And you are going to get blood out of turnip? How exactly are you going to fund a safe, modern society when the low rungs of the socio-economic ladder has a broken back. When it comes to the all-mighty $$$, there is no equality. The $$$ discriminates both ways. Better to piss off the few, harder to fight back with violence. Unless you want to pay more for a gallon of milk, then we can talk. 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: No, we call Trump stupid, too. Really? Rich in Ohio... Oh, I mean that 3rdnlng wanna be? He calls Trump stupid? LoL... Edited January 17, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: And you are going to get blood out of turnip? How exactly are you going to fund a safe, modern society when the low rungs of the socio-economic ladder has a broken back. When it comes to the all-mighty $$$, there is no equality. The $$$ discriminates both ways. Better to piss off the few, harder to fight back with violence. Unless you want to pay more for a gallon of milk, then we can talk. This has also been debated as naseam. When you reach a situation where half the population doesn't pay any income tax, that's when the populist danger zone hits. You cannot have a sound fiscal policy when half the nation doesn't participate and expects government services to increase. The rich have the most disposable incomes, but they also have the most discretionary and mobile incomes. It's insane to base a tax policy on incomes that may disappear or fluctuate wildly. Quote Really? Rich in Ohio... Oh, I mean that 3rdnlng wanna be? He calls Trump stupid? LoL... There's infinitely more criticism of Trump from the conservatives here than there's been collective criticism of Clinton family or Saint Barack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said: I can't tell if you're trolling me or if this is a sincere answer. If the latter, conflating government and country is your first problem. The second is you bypassed identifying the situation to jump to a moral case for it. By the nature of your response I take it you believe that it should be permissible to unilaterally take the property of another however you see fit and to whatever extent you choose, as long as you leave him with enough to live in reasonable comfort. I was a reader here for a long time before I ever posted. I gave up reading his word salad a long time ago. Now I just treat his posts like the old Magic Eye books. I just stare at the words and hope an object appears. Edit: Ooh look, a sailboat! Edited January 17, 2019 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, GG said: This has also been debated as naseam. When you reach a situation where half the population doesn't pay any income tax, that's when the populist danger zone hits. You cannot have a sound fiscal policy when half the nation doesn't participate and expects government services to increase. The rich have the most disposable incomes, but they also have the most discretionary and mobile incomes. It's insane to base a tax policy on incomes that may disappear or fluctuate wildly. This is false in a modern world. Labor still needs to produce the comforts of a safe, modern society. That $$$ is not disappearing. We are a consumer society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, GG said: This has also been debated as naseam. When you reach a situation where half the population doesn't pay any income tax, that's when the populist danger zone hits. You cannot have a sound fiscal policy when half the nation doesn't participate and expects government services to increase. The rich have the most disposable incomes, but they also have the most discretionary and mobile incomes. It's insane to base a tax policy on incomes that may disappear or fluctuate wildly. Sounds like you support a wealth tax then....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: I was a reader here for a long time before I ever posted. I gave up reading his word salad a long time ago. Now I just treat his posts like the old Magic Eye books. I just stare at the words and hope an object appears. Edit: Ooh look, a sailboat! Fine. It's called having your mind made up, living in a bubble. I do pass judgement, it's hard to take when I force people to look inward. 36 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Eric, a thinker? I'll forgive you because you're relatively new, but please watch what you say. My keyboard does not act favorably to spittal. Eric's HS graduation picture: Nice one Rich! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just now, TPS said: Sounds like you support a wealth tax then....? When you know that I think incomes of ultra-wealthy are mobile, what do you imagine my position is on assets? 4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: This is false in a modern world. Labor still needs to produce the comforts of a safe, modern society. That $$$ is not disappearing. We are a consumer society. What in the world does this have to do with incomes of the 1% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GG said: What in the world does this have to do with incomes of the 1% A lot. That 1% has over half the world's wealth. Yes, they should be paying more... A lot more. Edited January 17, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: A lot. That 1% has over half the world's wealth. Yes, they should be paying more... A lot more. The top 5% is already paying over a quarter of the income tax, while 47% is paying zero. That's why the dumb AOCs think it's a sound policy to have the rich pay more. When you're paying nothing, it's easy to demand that someone else build that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Swill Merchant said: Say what you will about AOC, she's the only one telling the truth about what the Democrats are doing. "it is not normal to shut down the government when we don't get what we want" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Swill Merchant said: Say what you will about AOC, she's the only one telling the truth about what the Democrats are doing. I appreciate her honesty, though not her policy positions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, GG said: The top 5% is already paying over a quarter of the income tax, while 47% is paying zero. That's why the dumb AOCs think it's a sound policy to have the rich pay more. When you're paying nothing, it's easy to demand that someone else build that. Yeah. But is the labor killing the rich? I mean physically killing them. Now... Let's not confuse "build" with "pay for." Pay for, as in pay for the benefits of society. 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: I appreciate her honesty, though not her policy positions. I do too. But I am closer to her policies.?. A lot closer... But she's still cray cray even by my standards. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Doc Brown said: The problem was there were so many loopholes and rich people did whatever they could with their income (tax free municipal bonds, stashing their money in foreign tax- exempt shelters)to avoid paying the 70%. In 1980 the top 1% paid only 20% in federal income taxes. Today they pay around 40%. But, but 70%....sorry folks, the rich have better a accountants than the gov’t. A ridiculously high tax rate changes the entire risk dynamic (not to mention incentive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Kevbeau said: But, but 70%....sorry folks, the rich have better a accountants than the gov’t. A ridiculously high tax rate changes the entire risk dynamic (not to mention incentive.) Baloney... Drivers are drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Yes. Adam Smith favored progressive taxes. Who the hell else is going to pay (for a safe modern society) and still live comfortably? We already have a progressive tax system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Yeah. But is the labor killing the rich? I mean physically killing them. Now... Let's not confuse "build" with "pay for." Pay for, as in pay for the benefits of society. For once, try comprehending what people are writing. The rich are already paying a disproportionate amount of taxes. I was wrong in my estimation. It's not the top 5% that pays nearly a quarter, it's the top 1%. They also pay a higher proportion of taxes than their proportion of income. The bottom 47% pays ZERO. That's why it's easy for somebody that contributes nothing, but has a vote, to demand that someone else pay more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, GG said: For once, try comprehending what people are writing. The rich are already paying a disproportionate amount of taxes. I was wrong in my estimation. It's not the top 5% that pays nearly a quarter, it's the top 1%. They also pay a higher proportion of taxes than their proportion of income. The bottom 47% pays ZERO. That's why it's easy for somebody that contributes nothing, but has a vote, to demand that someone else pay more. perhaps a return to the days of property owners only having the ability to vote is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: A lot. That 1% has over half the world's wealth. Yes, they should be paying more... A lot more. Are we debating wealth or income? 5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Baloney... Drivers are drivers. To a point a I agree, but people can do the math on where the ideal “bust my ass” line is. Also consider the workforce migration we have seen since those top tax rates were in affect. This board is a perfect example of that. Not everyone has the luxury of choosing where they live, but an increasing number of high paying jobs are becoming mobile. Hell, my best developer has been living in Costa Rica for the past two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kevbeau said: Are we debating wealth or income? Whatever supports their point, because they don't know the difference 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kevbeau said: Are we debating wealth or income? To a point a I agree, but people can do the math on where the ideal “bust my ass” line is. Also consider the workforce migration we have seen since those top tax rates were in affect. This board is a perfect example of that. Not everyone has the luxury of choosing where they live, but an increasing number of high paying jobs are becoming mobile. Hell, my best developer has been living in Costa Rica for the past two years. Yeah. Gaming the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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