Is the CFP ranking process flawed?

[YoloinOhio]

This is an interesting 9 minutes if you are a fan of CFB

 

 

[row_33]

Nothing will ever make everyone happy

 

the problem is they take so much time off between the last game and the bowl games, interest is lost and the NFL gears down to meaningful games 

 

 

[Fadingpain]

I agree with him that the Big 10 is almost undervalued as a competitive division.  Top to bottom, it's one of the toughest divisions in the country and it's been that way for many years. 

 

I'm not sure how to devise a perfect ranking system.

 

 

[wppete]

We need an 8 team playoff. 

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, wppete said:

We need an 8 team playoff. 

Perhaps but if that happens, fans of lesser teams will scream until there are 64 playoff spots.

 

If they do expand the playoffs (and I am unsure where I stand on this),  they really need to do away with conference championships. 

 

Jmo.

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[H2o]

7 hours ago, wppete said:

We need an 8 team playoff. 

This is my thought. People will still squabble about the last couple of spots in, but I think an 8 team playoff is what they should do. Like noted by others, people will always find a reason to complain. I think 8 teams is about as deep as you can go without a wide disparity between talent making the games of no consequence anyway. It also would only drag out about a month if you take two weeks between the semi's and final. Start the weekend after Christmas with the 1st Round, 2nd the following week, and then 2 weeks later have the Championship game. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Of course it's flawed. Every single FBS school should have at least a path to the national championship, like in basketball. If I ran things I'd have every conference champion in the playoffs plus one will card. 8 teams. I don't care if you think your team is better than the Sun Belt or MAC champ. Your team should have won it's conference. Case closed. No arguments.

[KD in CA]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Of course it's flawed. Every single FBS school should have at least a path to the national championship, like in basketball. If I ran things I'd have every conference champion in the playoffs plus one will card. 8 teams. I don't care if you think your team is better than the Sun Belt or MAC champ. Your team should have won it's conference. Case closed. No arguments.

 

Yes.  Unless of course you're Alabama, in which case you should be given an automatic bid even if you finish 3d in your conference because you're still the 'best' team.

[row_33]

One game is needed 19 of 20 years

 

in the rare event a third team has a cause have a 2/3 playin to meet the best, Auburn had a case a few years back undefeated and lost out to undefeated USC and Oklahoma?

 

Most of the games aren’t entertaining, the blue chips don’t want to risk injury 

 

enough already

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by row_33

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Yes.  Unless of course you're Alabama, in which case you should be given an automatic bid even if you finish 3d in your conference because you're still the 'best' team.

Or  a certain team which is not in a conference?

[Cynical]

On 11/4/2018 at 10:38 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

Of course it's flawed. Every single FBS school should have at least a path to the national championship, like in basketball. If I ran things I'd have every conference champion in the playoffs plus one will card. 8 teams. I don't care if you think your team is better than the Sun Belt or MAC champ. Your team should have won it's conference. Case closed. No arguments.

 

Every system is flawed. Every argument is flawed. Even yours.

Let's start with:

"If I ran things I'd have every conference champion in the playoffs plus one will card. 8 teams."

5 P5 conferences + 5 G5 conferences = 10 teams

1 wild card

 

Basic math: 10+1 = 11. Try again.

 

[Cynical]

On 11/3/2018 at 10:52 AM, YoloinOhio said:

This is an interesting 9 minutes if you are a fan of CFB

 

 

 

So, the SEC is over rated, the ACC is over rated, the BIG10 in under rated, and it's the ACC's fault.

 

Reality check. Klatt has argued for using 2-3 different committees.

If he has a problem with confirmation bias and influential bias, how does adding more committees eliminate that?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Cynical said:

 

Every system is flawed. Every argument is flawed. Even yours.

Let's start with:

"If I ran things I'd have every conference champion in the playoffs plus one will card. 8 teams."

5 P5 conferences + 5 G5 conferences = 10 teams

1 wild card

 

Basic math: 10+1 = 11. Try again.

 

 

You got me. So you seed them and give byes to the top seeds.  My point is the CFP is still a beauty contest until the path is open to every FBS program.

Edited November 5, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[May Day 10]

I think 12 teams would be adequate and amazing.

 

10 Conferences.  Take the winners of the power 5 conferences, as well as the ACC, Mountain West.  Sun Belt, MAC, and C-USA would need a compelling criteria to qualify as a Conference Champion.  Like undefeated, or 1 or 2 losses with a challenging out of conference schedule.

 

Then fill-in with as many teams as the top 10 allows.

 

Right now, I would go with (shooting from the hip)

 

East: 

6 Buffalo/Ohio (or UAB) (or Troy)

3 Georgia

 

5 UCF

4 West Virginia (or LSU)

 

Byes:

2 Michigan

1 Clemson

 

 

West:

6 Utah State

3 Oklahoma

 

5 Washington State

4 Ohio State

 

Byes:

2 Notre Dame

1 Alabama

[Bfanlc]

Why not just have a play in game? The fourth team vs say UCF this year for example? Whoever wins gets in. There is no need to change anything really because the ccommittees gotten it right every year. It should always be about who the best teams are. Not just because the pac 12 team won its conference championship and some other team didn't. Further I'm against an 8 team playoff or a ten team playoff because it devalues regular season games. If you like playoffs go watch the NFL, leave college football alone. 

[May Day 10]

I would argue that a wider playoff field increases the value of more regular season games.

 

 

Now, you might have a monster game every week or so, while other teams in or near the top 4 just need to hold serve against, say Northwestern or Florida State.

 

With a 12 team field where you open spots to other conferences, the Buffalo/Ohio game next week has national implications and interest.  Every game in tight division races would be huge.  Houston Cougars are looking to hold their Division, and get their chance at UCF and get into the tournament.  West Virginia and Oklahoma would be on pins and needles every game, instead of just hoping one or 2 of 4 or 5 teams slip up in the last few weeks.  Pitt and Va Tech this weekend would be a big game

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:25 AM, May Day 10 said:

I would argue that a wider playoff field increases the value of more regular season games.

 

 

Now, you might have a monster game every week or so, while other teams in or near the top 4 just need to hold serve against, say Northwestern or Florida State.

 

With a 12 team field where you open spots to other conferences, the Buffalo/Ohio game next week has national implications and interest.  Every game in tight division races would be huge.  Houston Cougars are looking to hold their Division, and get their chance at UCF and get into the tournament.  West Virginia and Oklahoma would be on pins and needles every game, instead of just hoping one or 2 of 4 or 5 teams slip up in the last few weeks.  Pitt and Va Tech this weekend would be a big game

How many games do you think these unpaid college students should have to play in a season? 16? 20? Every extra game gives many of them just that much more risk of losing millions in the NFL.

I think that even without expansion, conference title games should be eliminated. The team that wins the title this season will have played 15 games, which imo is too many. And what would be the justification? Allowing mediocre at best teams a chance to be in a playoff?

Sorry, I think that expansion might be a bad idea.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[Lofton80]

It is a better system than the previous one. I think the eventual winner is the best team be it Alabama, Clemson, Florida St or Oklahoma over the last 10 years. The teams ending up at the 5 and 6 positions squawk about the system but they are unlikely to win out.     

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, row_33 said:

 

the problem is they take so much time off between the last game and the bowl games, interest is lost and the NFL gears down to meaningful games 

 

 

The above doesn't seem to be a problem for everyone.

[Bfanlc]

On 11/6/2018 at 8:25 AM, May Day 10 said:

I would argue that a wider playoff field increases the value of more regular season games.

A wider playoff field allows you to lose games and still get in. That devalues games. If the players start thinking hey we can lose this game and still get in do you think they will try as hard? As it is now every game a team plays is important until you lose multiple games. You want to make the playoffs, dont lose, and play some good teams.

[row_33]

So we are supposed to believe that if Ohio State beats Michigan and Northwestern that it is 50/50 they get into the playoff from the current 10th ranking?

 

this is so stupid....

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, row_33 said:

So we are supposed to believe that if Ohio State beats Michigan and Northwestern that it is 50/50 they get into the playoff from the current 10th ranking?

 

this is so stupid....

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I am missing the point you are trying to make. I'm sure it is me but where are you going with the above?

 

Are you saying that OSU should or should not get in if they win out?

[row_33]

Ohio State should be in if they win out , not even a second of doubt

 

mamy complain about a preseason poll, but putting out a playoff poll is far more pointless when you include teams that have no chance at all of getting in above teams still in the mix

 

 

 

 

 

 

They just take the teams they want at the last second, often tossing the penultimate playoff poll in the trash and pretending it never happened

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

Ohio State should be in if they win out , not even a second of doubt

 

mamy complain about a preseason poll, but putting out a playoff poll is far more pointless when you include teams that have no chance at all of getting in above teams still in the mix

 

 

 

 

 

 

They just take the teams they want at the last second, often tossing the penultimate playoff poll in the trash and pretending it never happened

 

 

I'm not ready to agree or disagree.....yet.

 

I do however think that a 1 loss Georgia or a 1 loss Alabama would be more deserving whereas they, IMO (I'm not talking smack or wanting to offend anyone) are clearly superior to any team in the Big 10, especially in terms of being a complete football team. I mean, how many 50 point games do those teams allow?

 

Once again, this is JMO. It's an opinion, not an all knowing proclamation.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[4merper4mer]

Upstart teams from smaller conferences should have to go undefeated for 17 years straight before having an opportunity at a playoff.  Furthermore they should not be scheduled by the big boys who have better things to do, like tying Citadel for 30 minutes.

 

In other words, the system is working perfectly.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm not ready to agree or disagree.....yet.

 

I do however think that a 1 loss Georgia or a 1 loss Alabama are would be more deserving whereas they, IMO (I'm not talking smack or wanting to offend anyone) are clearly superior to any team in the Big 10, especially in terms of being a complete football team. I mean, how many 50 point games do those teams allow?

 

Once again, this is JMO. It's an opinion, not an all knowing proclamation.

 

 

 

I assume this is all just mere opinion, but I might quote you some day if I can make $$...

 

The playoff poll glorifies a type of useless thinking which people feed on and waste their life away

 

i know all too well about other manifestations of this silliness.

 

its been a disappointing season, Bama is the only top shelf team that has a ruddy clue what it is doing on the field 

 

the rest can’t get their act together for two straight offensive drives, even against the cupcakes they are facing 90 percent of the time

[row_33]

58 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Upstart teams from smaller conferences should have to go undefeated for 17 years straight before having an opportunity at a playoff.  Furthermore they should not be scheduled by the big boys who have better things to do, like tying Citadel for 30 minutes.

 

In other words, the system is working perfectly.

 

put a mid-major big game on split screen with a top big conference game

 

it will never get respect

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

Why is your venom aimed only at Alabama? Seriously, why not Clemson? They played 1 game against a quality team. If you want to call Syracuse a good team, cool; lets make it 2. They won these 2 games by a combined 6 points.

 

Who is it you want Alabama to play? If the answer is UCF, I would like that too! It would make a fine season opener.

 

That said, their schedule isn't as easy as you make it sound. Some of those teams look a lot worse because they are facing the Crimson Tide.

[row_33]

14 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Why is your venom aimed only at Alabama? Seriously, why not Clemson? They played 1 game against a quality team. If you want to call Syracuse a good team, cool; lets make it 2. They won these 2 games by a combined 6 points.

 

Who is it you want Alabama to play? If the answer is UCF, I would like that too! It would make a fine season opener.

 

That said, their schedule isn't as easy as you make it sound. Some of those teams look a lot worse because they are facing the Crimson Tide.

 

no venom at Bama, just slight disappointment at them not playing a strong team out of conference, and not buying that the QB is going to dominate the NFL immediately until his HOF career ends in 2030.

 

i couldn't care less about Clemson

 

what was venom in stating that Bama is the only team that can tell it's butt from a hole in the ground on O?

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

23 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

no venom at Bama, just slight disappointment at them not playing a strong team out of conference, and not buying that the QB is going to dominate the NFL immediately until his HOF career ends in 2030.

 

i couldn't care less about Clemson

 

what was venom in stating that Bama is the only team that can tell it's butt from a hole in the ground on O?

 

 

 

I apologize. My response was meant for a different poster who mentioned The Citadel.

[row_33]

24 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I apologize. My response was meant for a different poster who mentioned The Citadel.

 

i think i may have mentioned Citadel, and not in the context of the Rolling Stones song, a few times this year.....

 

hopefully we get some well-played close games the next few weeks and in the playoff

 

 

 

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

The biggest issue with the CFP is they change the criteria after they select who they want. One year only conference champs, then later it is " best resume", last year it was " 4 best teams". If they simply laid out the requirements the lesser teams wpuld change to try and help their cause. In the basketball at least they lay out what they choose based on- i do not agree with all the criteria but at least i know.

[row_33]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

The biggest issue with the CFP is they change the criteria after they select who they want. One year only conference champs, then later it is " best resume", last year it was " 4 best teams". If they simply laid out the requirements the lesser teams wpuld change to try and help their cause. In the basketball at least they lay out what they choose based on- i do not agree with all the criteria but at least i know.

 

You can’t make rules to meet every instance, it goes on nuance and fair play and trying to do the right thing and getting the top TV audience

 

it makes sense when the team I cheer for gets in and should be totally revamped when the team I cheer for doesn’t get in

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

41 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

You can’t make rules to meet every instance, it goes on nuance and fair play and trying to do the right thing and getting the top TV audience

 

it makes sense when the team I cheer for gets in and should be totally revamped when the team I cheer for doesn’t get in

 

 

I do not understand what you are arguing in favor of? Are you stating that having no set standards is good? That conference championships should only matter if it allows the big money team in? I do not want to put words in your mouth but you seem to be stating that tv ratings should be used to used to determine who gets in.

[row_33]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I do not understand what you are arguing in favor of? Are you stating that having no set standards is good? That conference championships should only matter if it allows the big money team in? I do not want to put words in your mouth but you seem to be stating that tv ratings should be used to used to determine who gets in.

 

 

the whole playoff is about TV ratings and selling ads

 

(it plays heavily in determining the last spot, history and national fan interest are huge if required)

 

like everything else in life "rules" are set up, even "computer based rules" and then they toss the "rules" in the garbage to suit whatever result they predetermined

 

it's just sports and if you aren't making a living off it then don't bother getting confused or too upset about it, especially chatter on a sport message board 

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

12 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

the whole playoff is about TV ratings and selling ads

 

Then why do people claim that Alabama gets special treatment? Don't you think that OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Notre Dame, and other teams have more of a following than Alabama?

I believe that the networks would rather see any of the above teams in the playoffs along with some other teams than to have the nationally hated Alabama in there.....again.

What say you?

[row_33]

19 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Then why do people claim that Alabama gets special treatment? Don't you think that OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Notre Dame, and other teams have more of a following than Alabama?

I believe that the networks would rather see any of the above teams in the playoffs along with some other teams than to have the nationally hated Alabama in there.....again.

What say you?

 

 

they hate Bama because Bama is so ***** great

 

the SEC is clearly the gem of college football and TV ratings, and at worst has been the 2nd best conference overall for my 4 decades of watching...

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

38 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Then why do people claim that Alabama gets special treatment? Don't you think that OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Notre Dame, and other teams have more of a following than Alabama?

I believe that the networks would rather see any of the above teams in the playoffs along with some other teams than to have the nationally hated Alabama in there.....again.

What say you?

Alabama has a huge following especially in the south- though the only team they are bigger than that you mention is penn state. I think  the argument would be that fan base is 50% of standard to get into playoff.

[row_33]

when Bama was in the ditch, the SEC was dissed by not putting undefeated Auburn in a "championship game" one year

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

 

they hate Bama because Bama is so ***** great

 

the SEC is clearly the gem of college football and TV ratings, and at worst has been the 2nd best conference overall for my 4 decades of watching...

 

 

Interesting. I never even considered the possibility that Bama has a bigger fan base than Notre Dame. Not ever.

 

I see at least 10 Notre Dame shirts, hats, or jackets to every 1 that says  Alabama. I would think that this would be the case in 48 other states, even down south whereas each SEC school has its own fan base.